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There is a waste / waste transport company that is called C***** Transport Services who use a logo of CTS in a back outline of a shield. The font on their logo was exactly the same as ours.

 

We have had several complaints from people thinking their drivers are ours. To avoid confusion we have recently had our logo re designed in a different font. People look up CTS + Waste and get to find our website not the other company. Is there anything we can do to make them change their logo to reflect their company name. We are called CTS Environmental Services so use the logo CTS Environmental. I don't think their logo reflects their company name. I wouldn't mind if we didn't get so many complaints both via email and on the phone. Its not very good for our company image to get blamed for their bad drivers.

 

Any ideas?

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Have you trademarked your logo and company name?

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There is a waste / waste transport company that is called C***** Transport Services who use a logo of CTS in a back outline of a shield. The font on their logo was exactly the same as ours.

 

We have had several complaints from people thinking their drivers are ours. To avoid confusion we have recently had our logo re designed in a different font. People look up CTS + Waste and get to find our website not the other company. Is there anything we can do to make them change their logo to reflect their company name. We are called CTS Environmental Services so use the logo CTS Environmental. I don't think their logo reflects their company name. I wouldn't mind if we didn't get so many complaints both via email and on the phone. Its not very good for our company image to get blamed for their bad drivers.

 

Any ideas?

If your market audience is mistaking one concern for the other and it is damaging your trade reputation, it sounds very much like a passing-off issue, in the presumed absence of any registered rights.

 

If you have registered rights, then be extremely careful in how you approach the other company and, ideally, let a professional do it for you to avoid (proportionately extremely-) expensive liability/mistakes.

 

Sending you a PM :)

Edited by L00b

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Have you trademarked your logo and company name?

 

No, we don't need to. If you look up 'passing off' and the rules about two companies in the same line of work its covered in there. We did a lot of 'Googling' for similar names before setting our company up.

 

Companies House suggests this other company was only incorporated in 2013. It gives their previous company name. We were incorporated in 2009.

 

It wouldn't be such a problem if their logo reflected their company name or their drivers didn't upset people. One woman today sent me an email before contacting the Police. I have given her the link to the company name I suspected she was looking for and she confirmed it was the same company; I guessed right.

Edited by Chez2

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Chez2, thx for the reply PM. Invite remains open regardless :)

 

Don't assume that passing off would give you all the (exclusive) rights which a registered trademark does. And, contrary to (despairingly-) long-enduring beliefs of lay people, a company name registration at Companies House gives you very little rights in a name within a trademark sense, if any at all (as usual, depending on the facts).

 

As a matter of fact, had you registered a trademark instead of relying on passing-off, it would be a much more straightforward situation to solve, at a much cheaper cost.

 

To be frank, after looking at the other company's website, and if they have indeed been trading for 3 years now, I can't see this being an easy/fast one to solve I'm afraid :(

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We haven't registered it as it wouldn't be a problem to us if the drivers weren't causing such a problem. I never though someone would be dumb enough to have a logo unrelated to their company name. After all, just look how many CTS companies are out there. Its only the fact they are a waste company and their drivers are so bad that it bothers us.

 

It looks like they are just transport or transport hire for general waste (bin collections), we don't really do general waste unless its part of a bigger contract. We are experts in 'difficult' or hazardous waste streams that need technical knowledge. We look after SMEs and large corporates, not domestic collection, municipal waste or any other small bin collections.

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We haven't registered it as it wouldn't be a problem to us if the drivers weren't causing such a problem.
...until your brand reputation, and/or your business starts to get damaged ;)

I never though someone would be dumb enough to have a logo unrelated to their company name. After all, just look how many CTS companies are out there.
Indeed, but 'branding accidents' happen. All the time, in all ways of business. Some deliberate (to piggyback and steal market share), most not.

 

I'll not prejudge of C***** Transport Services intentions at the time, but a pound to a penny their MD or marketing guy just decided on that representation because "it looks cool", without even an afterthought about due diligence. I see it all the time.

Its only the fact they are a waste company and their drivers are so bad that it bothers us.
And that's precisely the situations contemplated by the trademark registration system and the tort of passing off, and where they come in: they are concerned with preventing confusion in the markeplace when similar/identical marks are used for identical/similar goods or services by different companies.

 

The practical distinction (in business terms and planning) between registered and unregistered rights is pretty much the same whether you're looking at trademarks or designs: if you rely on unregistered rights, the burden of proof lies fully and squarely on you, and it's going to be quite an uphill struggle (read: more expensive) to make and win your case (read: with less clear-cut chances of success); registration of rights removes a lot of that burden by providing certainty about what the rights are and who owns them.

 

It's so cheap to get UK registered trademarks and design nowadays (compared to even a few years ago), objectively I can never understand why a business -however small- doesn't do it as a matter of course. It should be considered at the time of naming the business (and/or the range(s)) before even buying a domain name (what's the point of deciding on a name or brand and buying a domain name infringing someone's earlier trademark? due diligence first!)

 

"Pay me a penny now, pay me a pound later": never truer than intellectual property matters, I'm afraid.

Edited by L00b

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Is this CTS text going diagonally across inside shield?

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I don't see how a trademark would make any difference. We are CTS Environmental Services Ltd, they are C***** Transport Services, formerly something else if you look on companies house. There are already so many CTS.....whatever businesses I don't see how any trademark would make a difference. How could we stop any other waste business or any other business using CTS when there are so many already? None of the other CTS are waste companies (as far as we are aware).

 

---------- Post added 23-05-2016 at 15:10 ----------

 

Is this CTS text going diagonally across inside shield?

 

Yes, it was the same font as ours so we changed ours this year. I hope the woman who contacted me today goes to the Police about the incident. I have aksed her to let me know what the company says whens she speaks to them. She looked up CTS + waste and found us. I gave her the link to the company I thought it was and I was correct.

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How could we stop any other waste business or any other business using CTS when there are so many already? None of the other CTS are waste companies (as far as we are aware).
Marks are never registered for "anything and everything under the sun", they are registered for specific goods and/or services according to an international classification of goods and services. Put simply, an IT services supplier (e.g.) or a building developer (e.g.) trading under 'CTS' is not going to get mistaken for a waste services supplier trading under 'CTS': all can register the mark for their respective services independently of one another.

 

So with reference to the quote above, on the assumption that you are correct and that there is no other CTS or confusingly similar mark registered for waste services, that is precisely the point of registration: by registering your mark for waste services, you'd gain exclusive ('monopoly') rights in that mark for waste services across the UK, i.e. you'd have the relevant monopoly rights to stop any other waste services provider from calling itself CTS :)

 

Passing-off is not such a monopoly right, because it is at all times dependent on the facts of a conflict situation (and each one is likely always different), particularly the strong likelihood or presence of damage (which is, advantageously, presumed in the case of registered trademarks), and so its potential enforcement is frequently much more uncertain and difficult to predict/advise about, than registered trademark infringement.

Edited by L00b

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Are marks automatically "across the UK". I thought there were geographical restrictions as well? Ie Betty's Baps the sandwich shop in Sheffield is unlikely to be confused with Betty's Baps the sandwich shop in Glasgow, so there is no attempt to pass off. Have I got that wrong?

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Are marks automatically "across the UK". I thought there were geographical restrictions as well? Ie Betty's Baps the sandwich shop in Sheffield is unlikely to be confused with Betty's Baps the sandwich shop in Glasgow, so there is no attempt to pass off. Have I got that wrong?

didn't harrods in London have some dispute with the sandwich shop harrods in ecclesfield a couple of years back :suspect:

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