Put a stop to blind pricing on SF

Take note mods, I have emailed you several times about this.

Can we have it stopped, openly auctioning jobs off to the lowest bidder, for a job which nobody has seen.

Other trades men's help would be appreciated.

Cheers, Mac

As a private individual why should we have to pay -what can be exorbitant prices?

I openly invite anyone to look at the job - but it would be nice to have a rough guestimate - even when the pro's have quoted they don't turn up or don't turn to price the job.

I mean seriously how hard can it be to give a rough estimate - i had a plaster( a well established professional) who lived close by and openly said "ceilings on this estate front room £80" when i rang him for a price.

Yet someone else came and quoted me £400.

A rough estimate is no good for anyone. price it to high and you will lose the job, price to low and then then called in for an actual price and come back higher you will lose the job. Waste of time for everyone.

As for tradespeople not turning up well perhaps they should not have offered to turn up in the first place but a polite 'sorry I am busy for the next 2 months perhaps you should find someone else' doesn't work. I get 'well we will have a price anyway'. So after working all day I am expected to trudge all over the City in the evenings and weekends looking at jobs I have no chance of getting! I am being used for a price comparison. Believe me, I value my private time and having some stranger waste it really makes my blood boil! The selfishness of some people. Bear in mind to leave my home, go look at a job, discuss it, measure up, drive back and work out quantities and labour costs take about 3 hours of my free precious time. Look at 3 jobs a week and that's 9 hours of my private time gone to waste.

Now if these time wasters was to pay me by the hour perhaps they would value my time more. And I understand what Mac is saying, the people on job vacancies asking for quotes and getting under cut by idiots who in turn take the customers for idiots (but more fool them). They charge a stupid daily rate that after taking costs off and holiday pay, winter shortage of work these fools are working for far less than minimum wage. Do they quote on a business letterhead with address and a land line number? Do they invoice on a company letterhead? Take a cheque? They are the scum of the trade and like Thatcher said, 'you pays your money and takes your choice'. Sorry when you get ripped off well you have only yourself to blame.

But isn't that part of the free market economy. I was criticised on here when i asked for someone to fit me a window, i was quoted £200 and told that was an acceptable price to pay.

Yet the window manufacturers have sub contractors who do "that sort of thing for £80" and they take the scrap away.

As for a rough price - this is a serious question - How much to fit 6 plastic brackets to upvc guttering,a job i could do an hour if i wasn't scared of heights.?(even unclipping the original guttering.

It isn't rocket science - £15 an hour, £75 all in.If someone quotes £15 an hour and has an issue he's getting paid for his time,so no loss to anyone.I'm happy to agree two hours.

What am i getting for my money thats different?

I paid a tiler "day rate" £120 for work that took 5 hours 'cos i wanted a good job doing,had the job been bigger would he have asked for more or taken longer to stretch the job out.

---------- Post added 26-05-2013 at 17:44 ----------

A rough estimate is no good for anyone. price it to high and you will lose the job, price to low and then then called in for an actual price and come back higher you will lose the job. Waste of time for everyone.

 

As for tradespeople not turning up well perhaps they should not have offered to turn up in the first place but a polite 'sorry I am busy for the next 2 months perhaps you should find someone else' doesn't work. I get 'well we will have a price anyway'. So after working all day I am expected to trudge all over the City in the evenings and weekends looking at jobs I have no chance of getting! I am being used for a price comparison. Believe me, I value my private time and having some stranger waste it really makes my blood boil! The selfishness of some people. Bear in mind to leave my home, go look at a job, discuss it, measure up, drive back and work out quantities and labour costs take about 3 hours of my free precious time. Look at 3 jobs a week and that's 9 hours of my private time gone to waste.

 

Now if these time wasters was to pay me by the hour perhaps they would value my time more. And I understand what Mac is saying, the people on job vacancies asking for quotes and getting under cut by idiots who in turn take the customers for idiots (but more fool them). They charge a stupid daily rate that after taking costs off and holiday pay, winter shortage of work these fools are working for far less than minimum wage. Do they quote on a business letterhead with address and a land line number? Do they invoice on a company letterhead? Take a cheque? They are the scum of the trade and like Thatcher said, 'you pays your money and takes your choice'. Sorry when you get ripped off well you have only yourself to blame.

I've had work done by three reputable,regularly recommended guys on here,none have issued me a receipt or invoice. I've had a "jack of all trades" do some work which had been put on here and he issued a quote and a receipt.

As a private tradesmen why should I have to compete with part-timers on here that quote blind.

You can get guesstimates via pm, all I'm asking is for work not to be priced in public, especially work that hasn't been seen.

I'm not getting into an argument over plastering prices because it depends on how good a finish you want,

If the guys who wanted £400 wanted to take down and re-board your ceiling because it was way out then skim it, compared to a guy who didnt give a damn about straight lines and one coated your ceiling then this is where price differs.

All I am asking is for open blind pricing to be removed from threads, it does nobody any good, by all mean do this via pm, I wont, but doing on an open thread starts the tradesmen auctioning with each other until it reaches such a low price you either get someone not bothering to turn up or a semi skilled guy.

Its a tough one this, and it will never go away. I dont live or work in the Sheffield area and mainly read and post for amusement purposes, but having said that, the stuff I see on here isnt strictly limited to Sheffield. The black economy is alive and kicking everywhere.

The Sheffield forum is a place where legitimate tradesmen and chancers seem to be going for the same jobs. Using the 2 bedroom apartment post as an example, its definitely "buyer beware" if they go with the £200 quote. That quote isnt from a professional decorator, its from someone that is unemployed or desperate or both. A 2 bed apartment, if clear of furniture is going to take somewhere in the region of a week to prep, emulsion all ceilings and walls and undercoat and gloss woodwork. If its furnished and has to be done a room at a time, add days to that. Then add materials. £200 for all that? If the customer doesnt smell a rat they deserve whats coming to them.

Ive been in this game for over 25 yrs and you cannot price jobs blind. There is no "average room" or "average condition". I always go to see the job, introduce myself to the customer, provide a written quote stating how many days the job will take and an invoice when finished. If someone is half the price then customer beware because I have quoted for a professional, durable job, using trade paints.

If someone isnt intelligent enough to do the maths and see that I charge the going rate for a self employed bloke, then they deserve the blathered tracksuit chancer that has curtains for dust sheets (if any), arrives on the bus and borrows the customers step ladders and diy paint brushes.

Each to their own. Probably best is the forum was split into "serious customers in search of a legit tradesman" and "cheap as possible with no regard for quality"

Good post fitzydec, I think a sticky at the top of the job vacancies page would be enough, please do not post quotes in threads, this can be done via pm if people are that desperate to throw numbers around, it doesn't need to be done for everyone to see and then run the risk of someone else coming in £10.00, £20.00 cheaper and undercutting.

The price of a job, regardless of how much, is private between the customer and the tradesmen.

I use other forums and its strictly no discussing prices, it works very well.

Can mods let me know what they think.

P,s fitzydec, nothing wrong with old curtains.

 

As for a rough price - this is a serious question - How much to fit 6 plastic brackets to upvc guttering,a job i could do an hour if i wasn't scared of heights.?(even unclipping the original guttering.

It isn't rocket science - £15 an hour, £75 all in.If someone quotes £15 an hour and has an issue he's getting paid for his time,so no loss to anyone.I'm happy to agree two hours.

What am i getting for my money thats different?

 

I paid a tiler "day rate" £120 for work that took 5 hours 'cos i wanted a good job doing,had the job been bigger would he have asked for more or taken longer to stretch the job out.

Putting 5 plastic gutter brackets means coming in ones spare time to give a price, then come back and for safety reasons would mean 2 men. Take the whole length of gutter down to get access to the brackets, replace brackets and clip back on the whole length of gutter.

So, leave home early evening when the customer is snug at home after a days graft, have a look and discuss the job, give a price and let the customer have a think about it and go back home where ever that may be. Get given the job and go to the builders merchants and pick up 5 brackets. Drive to the job and do it in less than an hour. Then what?

So round trip to look at the job 1 1/2 hours. 1 1/2 hours from setting off to do the job x 2 men. Then find something to fill the rest of the day with.

How much do you think for what is a two minute job? And if working life was full of these type of jobs how jobs would one need to look at to fill in the week bearing in mind the time wasters and those who ring every Tom, Dick and Harry for free quotes. Could one expect any night in with the wife and kids?

What do people do when there washing machine packs up? Has anyone tried getting an washing machine repair man out after work?

Putting 5 plastic gutter brackets means coming in ones spare time to give a price, then come back and for safety reasons would mean 2 men. Take the whole length of gutter down to get access to the brackets, replace brackets and clip back on the whole length of gutter.

 

So, leave home early evening when the customer is snug at home after a days graft, have a look and discuss the job, give a price and let the customer have a think about it and go back home where ever that may be. Get given the job and go to the builders merchants and pick up 5 brackets. Drive to the job and do it in less than an hour. Then what?

 

So round trip to look at the job 1 1/2 hours. 1 1/2 hours from setting off to do the job x 2 men. Then find something to fill the rest of the day with.

 

How much do you think for what is a two minute job? And if working life was full of these type of jobs how jobs would one need to look at to fill in the week bearing in mind the time wasters and those who ring every Tom, Dick and Harry for free quotes. Could one expect any night in with the wife and kids?

 

What do people do when there washing machine packs up? Has anyone tried getting an washing machine repair man out after work?

Why is it spare time? You're pricing a job thats working time.Or quote me an hourly rate before you come.

It may take 2 men - but thats not my problem is it,thats the builders problem to price the job accordingly.

As for parts i offered to supply. It needs someone simply to say "thats a mornings work @ x" or i'll do it hourly at £25 an hour - simple.

I paid a joiner and his mate to fit me 8 doors (solid oak doors) he priced me per door,no more than some offered on here as a one man job.

I mentioned two minute job because it doesn't need scaffolding,its not metal guttering,there aren't trees etc etc etc,if i said how much to change me a plug,it's two minutes would it cause such consternation.

I've employed a heating engineer off here twice - the first job he priced me over the phone which was his minimum call out rate plus x if he over ran,yet 7 others wanted to come and have a look before pricing changing a heating timer.Guess who got the job and he may not have been the cheapest.

I also have a working life i can't afford to sit in all afternoon for a professional not turn to price a job.

In fact i'm waiting for someone to come and price the guttering job from last Friday.

We once went to quote for a plastering job which had been advertised on here. We gave our quote after seeing the ceilings and walls (which was a very fair quote) and was told by the customer that someone on here had said they would do it for £20 per wall.

We will not quote blind, like has been said if we go in too high to cover all eventualities we would no doubt be out quoted, if we quote lower to enable we get the job we A) barely make anything and B) could be at a loss if it costs more than we 'thought' or takes longer as we had to guesstimate.

The problem here is that some people want a quote, others just want a really rough guesstimate to see if it is worth pursuing.

But on odd occasions if I really don't have a clue on prices, I can see the benefit of a rough guide to help me decide to go ahead or not.

Best of all, the trades I have used over and over never give me a quote, I just tell them what needs doing and they do it.

They don't rip me off and I don't go looking for new people each time.

Trouble is, they are starting to retire one by one :-(

(Posting as solicitor, not as Moderator)

The same's true of legal fees. I distinguish between:

a. a quotation [= a fixed fee, to which I hold unless the scope of the work changes from what's initially specified]; and

b. an estimate [= an approximation, where the scope's unclear or there's a continuing area of work, showing at least an hourly rate and an educated guess re how long the work might take].