It is now Two Thousand and Fifty .

Everything will be done by robots, and we will have loads of leisure time, even our leisure time will be done online

Wow that sounds word for word from a quote from Tomorrows World, about computers in the 80's.Alot of people found that leisure time ment unemployment.

Maybe, just maybe, in thirty three years time some of the more cerebral cyclists may have evolved just enough to realise that if you put an engine in the kiddies toy, it becomes a viable means of transport rather than the bane of everyone elses life that it is presently (2017). It worked well for messrs Harley and Davidson some one hundred and fourteen years ago.

Also, they may have evolved a sense of humour too.

Maybe, just maybe, in thirty three years time some of the more cerebral cyclists may have evolved just enough to realise that if you put an engine in the kiddies toy, it becomes a viable means of transport rather than the bane of everyone elses life that it is presently (2017). It worked well for messrs Harley and Davidson some one hundred and fourteen years ago.

 

Also, they may have evolved a sense of humour too.

I suspect that a bad case of chafing can seriously damage your sense of humour...

One thing I'd like to do is restrict driving licences.

 

Right now, if you want a licence you can get one assuming you meet age, medical conditions and basic skill levels.

 

But we don't have a massive amount of road space. Nor do we have that much air to pollute. Or space to park them. So say by 2025 or whatever the Govt says it will cap the driving licences at some figure X.

 

Want a licence but none are available? Tough luck. Sorry but there you go. Of course if you do something that makes you lose your licence, then you go to the back of the queue.... so suddenly a totting up points ban is a real big deal...

 

It'll keep the car numbers down on the road, and reduce congestion and pollution. The flip side of course is people won't have licences... so we need to make allowances. If you job requires it then you get a dispensation - so doctors on call etc, field workers etc. The licence should be rather valuable. So if you choose to give up your licence, or don't have one, you get a) free bus and much reduced rail fares and b) £1000 a year (or suitable sum). You don't get that rebate if you lost your licence through crime though.

 

Sound unworkable? I think it could work, there will be a lot of trimming and tweaking needed but could something like that for 2050 be possible? Please note that I still expect you to require a licence for a self driving car.

I think this is a workable idea. It would also require significant funding to public transport to help those who don't qualify for a car. We'd also need to seriously work on allowing more and more people to work from home using technology as it becomes cheaper, safer and more reliable. Huge swathes of office workers gain little benefit either personally or for their employer by being forced into an office often in a congested city centre, but we need to break this micromanagement culture. If you cannot trust you staff to work from home then why have you hired them?

---------- Post added 30-03-2017 at 09:20 ----------

Because that money has already been taxed at source.

Unless you don't pay VAT on your ciggies huh? See, it's people like you who make us need more and more daft tax laws that are effectively just trying to recoup tax people have dodged (legally or illegally) throughout their lives.

We tax income and people suddenly become directors of their own personal 1 man company and pay themselves in dividends to avoid it.

We tax products that are bought and people buy backstreet dodgy imports to avoid it.

We tax inheritance and people use 'estate in trust' rules to get around it.

And then people complain our hospitals are underfunded or the police didn't even turn up when they were burgled and fail to see the immense irony.

---------- Post added 30-03-2017 at 09:21 ----------

Why not just limit which vehicles can drive on a given day. Many European cities have number plate based restrictions which they use when pollution gets too bad. We could do the same. Only cars with plates starting with A-J one day, K-Z the next.

 

Seems fairer than restricting licences.

Not at all. The rich buy 2 cars with different number plates so they can drive on each day. This is already happening in India where they have this exact scheme.

---------- Post added 30-03-2017 at 09:22 ----------

Maybe all cars will be driverless electric vehicles that just arrive at your door when you need them.

We discussed this vaguely on another thread about parking, and cyclone pointed this benefit out, that when you get home your car can go and park itself up at a parking point out of the way meaning no more parking issues on your street. Hadn't considered that benefit of it at all.

---------- Post added 30-03-2017 at 09:28 ----------

Wow that sounds word for word from a quote from Tomorrows World, about computers in the 80's.Alot of people found that leisure time ment unemployment.

Some people did because society didn't adapt to the fact that we no longer have enough work for everyone to work full time no matter how much everyone seems to want it. When we can accept that working full time is no longer aspirational and that the developed world at least has moved well beyond the need to 'work' in a profit making sense then we can start to fix the future. Capitalism no longer fits when there isn't enough 'work' to be done. That doesn't mean we should all sit around doing nothing, no no no, society doesn't work that way, but we need to widened our view of what 'work' is and include voluntary roles, caring for others, doing things simply for the benefit of others etc to be viewed as genuine work by society. It's this reason why I really support the idea of a citizens income to replace all but very specific additional benefits (disability for example). Everyone gets it regardless of job or income status. You could afford to live off it without extra income, just about, but every extra penny you earn is yours subject to normal tax rules. This could encourage people to take more piecemeal gigging type work knowing that it's worth the risk as they'd still be able to eat if they didn't get any work for that month, people could be more fluid in utilising their skills where needed when needed rather than often being in a job that suits neither employer or employee. People could also cut back hours to spend more time doing voluntary work or looking after family and friends. For me this is the only viable future we have. Anything else and the numbers just don't add up.

One thing I'd like to do is restrict driving licences.

 

Right now, if you want a licence you can get one assuming you meet age, medical conditions and basic skill levels.

 

But we don't have a massive amount of road space. Nor do we have that much air to pollute. Or space to park them. So say by 2025 or whatever the Govt says it will cap the driving licences at some figure X.

 

Want a licence but none are available? Tough luck. Sorry but there you go. Of course if you do something that makes you lose your licence, then you go to the back of the queue.... so suddenly a totting up points ban is a real big deal...

 

It'll keep the car numbers down on the road, and reduce congestion and pollution. The flip side of course is people won't have licences... so we need to make allowances. If you job requires it then you get a dispensation - so doctors on call etc, field workers etc. The licence should be rather valuable. So if you choose to give up your licence, or don't have one, you get a) free bus and much reduced rail fares and b) £1000 a year (or suitable sum). You don't get that rebate if you lost your licence through crime though.

 

Sound unworkable? I think it could work, there will be a lot of trimming and tweaking needed but could something like that for 2050 be possible? Please note that I still expect you to require a licence for a self driving car.

I'd rather we just made the test much, much harder. There are plenty of drivers out there who should never be allowed behind the wheel of a car. Let's start at a 50% fail rate and slowly increase it to 80% over a number of years. You have three attempts to pass and then you have to wait five years before you try again with mandatory retesting for all drivers every five years.

The government could set up training centres up and down the country and use the money generated to fund improvements to public transport.

I'd rather we just made the test much, much harder. There are plenty of drivers out there who should never be allowed behind the wheel of a car. Let's start at a 50% fail rate and slowly increase it to 80% over a number of years. You have three attempts to pass and then you have to wait five years before you try again with mandatory retesting for all drivers every five years.

The government could set up training centres up and down the country and use the money generated to fund improvements to public transport.

A bit late for all this.

The cars will all be driving themselves in 20 years.

A bit late for all this.

The cars will all be driving themselves in 20 years.

Only if they are limited to 2mph, and a servant carrying a red flag walks in front of them.

I would like to suggest in this discussion that if the human race is to get to 2050 and beyond .It will require that society undergo a revolutionary change . And move beyond economic relations that are rooted in dog eat dog and survival of the fittest; and find cooperative strategies for survival.

For us in the West, this means it’s time to grow up and move on to the next phase in our maturation cycle. It means recognising that cooperation between nations is required ,rather than unrelenting competition if we are to achieve ecological harmonious societies..

We’ve had Capitalism, it’s time to move on. We can’t keep on trashing the Earth indefinitely and when we’ve done, fly off to Mars in a Trump dynasty sponsored spaceship.

In MHO I reckon that 2050 will be post capitalist.

I would like to suggest in this discussion that if the human race is to get to 2050 and beyond .It will require that the human race undergo a revolutionary change . And move beyond economic relations that are rooted in dog eat dog and survival of the fittest; and find cooperative strategies for survival. For us in the West, this means it’s time to grow up and move on to the next phase in our maturation cycle. It means recognising that cooperation between nations is required ,rather than unrelenting competition if we are to achieve ecologically harmonious societies.. We’ve had Capitalism, it’s time to move on. We can’t keep on trashing the Earth indefinitely and when we’ve done, fly off to Mars in a Trump dynasty sponsored spaceship.

Morning Mr Marx.

We tried that. It ends in poverty and death.

We both cooperate and compete naturally. The mistake is to attempt to organise society by grand design.

I would like to suggest in this discussion that if the human race is to get to 2050 and beyond .It will require that society undergo a revolutionary change . And move beyond economic relations that are rooted in dog eat dog and survival of the fittest; and find cooperative strategies for survival.

 

For us in the West, this means it’s time to grow up and move on to the next phase in our maturation cycle. It means recognising that cooperation between nations is required ,rather than unrelenting competition if we are to achieve ecological harmonious societies..

 

We’ve had Capitalism, it’s time to move on. We can’t keep on trashing the Earth indefinitely and when we’ve done, fly off to Mars in a Trump dynasty sponsored spaceship.

 

In MHO I reckon that 2050 will be post capitalist.

Why? Capitalism has bought improvement to the lives of the world's poorest that could scarcely been imagined 50 years ago. Now less than 10% of the global population live in extreme poverty.

Why? Capitalism has bought improvement to the lives of the world's poorest that could scarcely been imagined 50 years ago. Now less than 10% of the global population live in extreme poverty.

I agree. We need the right system for the right time. Capitalism has indeed encouraged R&D, tech advancements and in some cases better distribution of wealth. It was the right thing for a post industrial revolution world. But we are no longer there. For some time until the mid-70s, the gap between CEOs and the staff was falling. Since the 70s it's risen year on year. Extreme poverty has indeed decreased, but relative poverty is now on the rise. Capitalism works when you have the same amount of work as people who want it. We no longer have that, or at least we are on the very brink of not having that if we choose to go that way. Driverless cars and automation give real likelihood that huge swathes of jobs could go. Now we can either go the communism route where technology is ignored in favour of giving the people a guaranteed job, we can go the mass unemployment route where as the jobs start to dry we have nothing for people to do so we end up with mass poverty in the UK and the West, or we find a new way forwards. I'd prefer the 3rd option please.

I agree. We need the right system for the right time. Capitalism has indeed encouraged R&D, tech advancements and in some cases better distribution of wealth. It was the right thing for a post industrial revolution world. But we are no longer there. For some time until the mid-70s, the gap between CEOs and the staff was falling. Since the 70s it's risen year on year. Extreme poverty has indeed decreased, but relative poverty is now on the rise. Capitalism works when you have the same amount of work as people who want it. We no longer have that, or at least we are on the very brink of not having that if we choose to go that way. Driverless cars and automation give real likelihood that huge swathes of jobs could go. Now we can either go the communism route where technology is ignored in favour of giving the people a guaranteed job, we can go the mass unemployment route where as the jobs start to dry we have nothing for people to do so we end up with mass poverty in the UK and the West, or we find a new way forwards. I'd prefer the 3rd option please.

But not every country is at the same development phase, and it would seem churlish to me to turn off the tap for the very thing that has allowed other countries, including our own, to develop.

Improvements in technology hopefully mean that they can develop in a less environmentally damaging way, but removing capitalism entirely (even if that were possible, which I doubt it is) does not strike me as the answer.

It would be great if there was a third way that guaranteed the same level of improvement that we have seen under capitalism without any of the downsides, but I can't think what that would be..