Martin McGuinness dies aged 66

Yes perhaps a daft idea nevertheless it shows the contempt i hold for mr mcguinness.

Thank you for admitting it was a daft idea.

Yes perhaps a daft idea nevertheless it shows the contempt i hold for mr mcguinness.

An evil little man with much blood on his hands, I hope he is having to stoke the fires of hell for eternity.

There are some actions that just cannot be forgiven.

Angel1.

An evil little man with much blood on his hands, I hope he is having to stoke the fires of hell for eternity.

 

There are some actions that just cannot be forgiven.

 

Angel1.

Clearly there are plenty of people in Northern Ireland who would rather forgive than go on killing each other, and who can blame them? Who would argue that things were better before? Forgiveness is very hard when people have been involved in violence but once the violence has started, forgiveness is the only real way to end it.

If some who's relatives were killed by members of the IRA can forgive, why can't some on here?

I don't condone violence, but people should do research into why the IRA came into being in the first place. As I say, I don't condone violence but they cause was/is just.

If some who's relatives were killed by members of the IRA can forgive, why can't some on here?

That's an odd argument.

Who are you to say who should forgive who for what?

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Do you forgive that murderer in London the other day, because a family member of one on his victims forgave them today on the news?

I refer to the statement saying "I don't condone violence" and "IRA cause was/is just"

The IRA cause was violent.

I have done research mainly through books on the subject (yes I understand that some are pro and some con).

I did not come to the conclusion that IRA violent action was or is just.

I did come to the conclusion however that the problem affecting recent events had began in the 20th century when the catholic part of the NI population were singled out for biased treatment by where they lived, from the police, and by allowing employers to ask a persons religion on application forms etc.

Based on this, jobs and opportunities were denied. Wide open discrimination no doubt.

I acknowledge the frustrations and I blame the UK Gov't for allowing this state of affairs to develop in NI without putting a stop to it for generations.

One or two people have expressed the opinion that this behavior justified the killings by the IRA. But then the protestant organisations joined in with violence. And the army, who were put there to keep the two sides apart, were quickly dragged in, and then the SAS infiltrated the IRA. Next thing innocents and children were being shot in parades and blown up in fish and chip shops ! It was all downhill very quickly.

No matter what is said after the fact, I don't believe this justified the random IRA actions and the killings that followed. All sides have their share of blame. But having said that seems to me that the British government should have led the way after WW2 to stop the bias actions against the catholic population and provided equal opportunity to all.

I refer to the statement saying "I don't condone violence" and "IRA cause was/is just"

The IRA cause was violent.

I have done research mainly through books on the subject (yes I understand that some are pro and some con).

I did not come to the conclusion that IRA violent action was or is just.

 

I did come to the conclusion however that the problem affecting recent events had began in the 20th century when the catholic part of the NI population were singled out for biased treatment by where they lived, from the police, and by allowing employers to ask a persons religion on application forms etc.

 

Based on this, jobs and opportunities were denied. Wide open discrimination no doubt.

I acknowledge the frustrations and I blame the UK Gov't for allowing this state of affairs to develop in NI without putting a stop to it for generations.

One or two people have expressed the opinion that this behavior justified the killings by the IRA. But then the protestant organisations joined in with violence. And the army, who were put there to keep the two sides apart, were quickly dragged in, and then the SAS infiltrated the IRA. Next thing innocents and children were being shot in parades and blown up in fish and chip shops ! It was all downhill very quickly.

 

No matter what is said after the fact, I don't believe this justified the random IRA actions and the killings that followed. All sides have their share of blame. But having said that seems to me that the British government should have led the way after WW2 to stop the bias actions against the catholic population and provided equal opportunity to all.

Hi Glenn, I like your well reasoned post. I think part of the problem is calling it 'the IRA's cause'. As you will know from your reading, the IRA were quite late to the civil rights movement and it began as a mainly non-sectarian, rather leftist movement. Because of the British government's idiotic and morally indefensible intransigence that you mention, and their decision to send troops in (which many people have argued was not to benignly 'keep the two sides apart' but to entrench British / Unionist hegemony) it appears many concluded that peaceful protest and civil disobedience weren't going to be enough by themselves. I dislike the way this seems to have bent what was a genuine civil rights movement into a narrow Irish nationalism which I think became a political dead end for Northern Ireland's catholics, backed up by the violent control of the population by a paramilitary elite.

So the cause (of the wider civil rights movement) was just, but this doesn't mean that all methods used in support of that cause were justified. The problem is that if governments, like the British in NI or the South African government during apartheid, violently repress the peaceful protests and civil disobedience then people will conclude that there is only one other way to go.

Hi Glenn, I like your well reasoned post. I think part of the problem is calling it 'the IRA's cause'. As you will know from your reading, the IRA were quite late to the civil rights movement and it began as a mainly non-sectarian, rather leftist movement. Because of the British government's idiotic and morally indefensible intransigence that you mention, and their decision to send troops in (which many people have argued was not to benignly 'keep the two sides apart' but to entrench British / Unionist hegemony) it appears many concluded that peaceful protest and civil disobedience weren't going to be enough by themselves. I dislike the way this seems to have bent what was a genuine civil rights movement into a narrow Irish nationalism which I think became a political dead end for Northern Ireland's catholics, backed up by the violent control of the population by a paramilitary elite.

 

So the cause (of the wider civil rights movement) was just, but this doesn't mean that all methods used in support of that cause were justified. The problem is that if governments, like the British in NI or the South African government during apartheid, violently repress the peaceful protests and civil disobedience then people will conclude that there is only one other way to go.

A well reasoned post there, you will therefore understand that it is reasonable, for members of the general public, in England particularly, to see the IRA actions on the mainland as indefensible too ...... and with that a reasoned dislike of McGuinness and Irish Republicanism !

A well reasoned post there, you will therefore understand that it is reasonable, for members of the general public, in England particularly, to see the IRA actions on the mainland as indefensible too ...... and with that a reasoned dislike of McGuinness and Irish Republicanism !

Yeah I completely understand peoples' revulsion at the IRA's tactics from people on the mainland. However we should remember that we don't have the full picture because we haven't experienced what it was like to be a catholic in NI at the time. Also, British people voted repeatedly for the status quo -i.e. continuation of the conflict - for 30 years, so need to accept some responsibility.

Yeah I completely understand peoples' revulsion at the IRA's tactics from people on the mainland. However we should remember that we don't have the full picture because we haven't experienced what it was like to be a catholic in NI at the time. Also, British people voted repeatedly for the status quo -i.e. continuation of the conflict - for 30 years, so need to accept some responsibility.

Ah so that's why all the innocent people got murdered.

Ah so that's why all the innocent people got murdered.

That's not really a useful contribution is it?