The Council are useless

I work for SCC and take a quite different approach, I really don't mind people letting off steam if that is there release. What I do object to however is when customers get personal, I've heard (and I'm used to) every swear word in the book, but if it gets directed at me in a personal tone, the respect is then lost.

I think a lot of people think that that is the case already.

 

People should never be rude to others, unless derserved, which I very much doubt it is in the case of many council officials doing what they do. However, the "jobsworth" nature of some council officials (and in many other walks of life) is mind boggling.

 

A friend of mine was asked to provide documentation for providing exercise classes for the public. She provided the documents but they weren't good enough for the council official, despite the same documentation being provided by others for exactly the same purpose. To make matters worse said council official had a member of Sheffield Parks staff present my friend with a piece of paper with the list of required documentation, to her hand, while she was running a class. If that type of behaviour doesn't get people's backs up then not sure what would.

People that use the term 'jobsworth' to describe any public sector worker. Jobsworth essentially comes from the term "its more than my job's worth", - it could cost the worker their employment or result in disciplinary action. In other words the selfish inconsiderate git making the accusation wants some kind of exceptional and special treatment quite possibly costing someone their job because somehow they are special and the rules that apply to everyone else should not apply to them.

Working for the Council is working for the government. Two sides to it. You get steady income, little or no overtime, all kinds of holiday time, reduced accountability, and many rules to follow. On the other side, you get blamed for most things that go wrong or don't work very well, or for jobs leaving the city and company closures. One side comes with the other.

18,000 people seems like a lot of people with a population of 525,000 residents (nearly 3.5% of the population). How does it stack up against other cities ?

Its these things that need to be reviewed and the results made public. If not done already, a council needs to contract out (Sheffield companies 1st priority) as much as it can, with public bids that again can be scrutinized. Reducing excessive holidays will mean you can manage with less people.

Finally an outside group needs to be able to measure the council's objectives against its achievements. Maybe easier said than done, and it will cost money, but at least there would be some transparency

 

I guess my question is should Council employees expect this type of behaviour towards them because of the position they take? Do agree that it is a bit of a contradictory situatuion in that council employees take that career path to help and serve, but often suffer abuse because they cannot meet expectations?

No.

Having said that, many people on front-line duties meet people who are at the end of their tether. Those staff need the right support to do difficult jobs.

Before I continue, I am a Council employee and I make this point out of my own experiences. I know many may disagree but that's kind of the point I want to make.

 

You make some valid points, and I have a lot of sympathy for your views.

 

I can explain some of it, in that the Powers That Be have moved away from a "service" ,mentality to a "punish and control the public" mentality - and peole resent it.

 

Take refuse collection. We used to pay our rates, and they took your rubbish away every week in your black bin. Easy, simple,. a fair trade, no?

 

Then, to prevent rampant flytipping in the 70's and 80's, Council Tips were started, to give people somewhere easy, convenient, and free to dispose of rubbish legally. The staff were friendly and helpful, by and large.

 

Now, what do we get, God knows how many different receptacles, bins, boxes, bags, whatever (I live in Rotherham) and the fiendishly complicated rules for which seem to change on a weekly basis.

 

And if you transgress in the slightest, like leaving the bin lid an inch up, it will be left uncollected "for Health and Safety" reasons... FFS!

 

Or if you leave it on the pavement in the slightly wrong position, or whatever.

 

Ditto with tips. Now, you are hectored and badgered as to what you can put where, and have to spend hours sorting it all out into categories, which defy explanation, and change regularly, and the staff are domineering and bullying.

 

All useless, cos 90% of it ends up in landfill anyway, because there is so much of it there is no market for the "recycling".

 

THIS is the sort of thing that p*sses people off about councils - the change in mentality from service to the public to a prime focus of serving some eco-centred "objective", and b*gger the public, they don't matter.

 

Then there is the perceived problem that ordinary local people who have lived here for decades, cannot get social housing for themselves or their children, because it is largely given to immigrants, who, having more children, are deemed to be in "greater need".

 

And the process! Once upon a time, you put your name down and waited. Now, you have to actively "bid" several times a week -c made to jump through hoops, as a way of putting off as many people as possible by ,making the process as difficult and timeconsuming as possible.

 

And don;t start me on parking, which has changed from a necessary control to prevent jammed streets, to the councils view of it as a cash cow, to be milked ruthlessly - ditto bus lane cameras trafficlight cameras, and speed cameras, all designed, not for road safety, but to milk the maximum revenue for the council.

 

Again, an attitude of bullying and control, far from serving the public, the council are perceived to view them as nuisances to push around, or extract money from!

All of my dealings with the Council over the years have done nothing but to reinforce what a load of incompetent buffoons they are.

Who would actually believe them when told that an important email you sent them took eight days to arrive in their inbox. I was told this and expected to believe it!. Liars.

I've been taken to court twice for non payment of Council tax, even though I had all the correct date stamped receipts from the Post Office (I don't use standing orders with them due to 'computer (ZX Spectrum) errors' such as these, they'd most probably empty my bank account in 'error'.

I managed to convince them I'd paid the first time, the day before my court appearance, second time I let them take me to court (wasting a day of my time), produced all the receipts and was allowed to leave the court a free man. Not even an apology!

They 'lose' or never receive letter sent to them. The Post Office tell me this happens a lot and the best way to make sure they receive post is to sent it recorded delivery. They sign for it but never reply.

Conventional post and email is impossible with this lot of ne'er-do-wells although it works with everybody else, and of course it's impossible to phone them unless you're lucky enough to get put in the queue and listen to the full back catalogue of Vivaldi, just before getting cut off the next day.

So far as care for the elderly, I know of two people who have money taken directly out of their pension by the Council for itemised, billed services they never receive (I can back this up quite easily, but not on here). The amount of times they've been told this is many fold but they just sweep it under the carpet.

So far as planning is concerned, they're a laughing stock. Everyone knows this so there's little more to add on that particular subject really.

All the Council seem to do is fill in bits of paper in triplicate, lose them all, look for them, forget what they were looking for, then start again.

So, the thread title is indeed correct … The Council are Useless.

A tad unfair Alcoblog. We always hear about things that go wrong, but very rarely about all the services that work away efficiently under the radar. Councils are like lots of individual companies all doing different things.

I agree with Douglas J, many customers who approach front line services are already in stressful situations, and it's understandable that they will be wound up and angry. Having worked for more than one local authority (and for a time in Howden House) the secret is not to take it personally. Of course, being personally abused, threatened and spat at (it happens) is pretty nasty, but there is always a minority who don't have the necessary reasoning capacity to discuss calmly, and others who just hate 'the council'.

I saw part of my job as helping customers understand their options, as unrealistic expectations generally lead to disappointment. For instance, Right to Buy has reduced the choice of council properties massively, it's not the fault of the council that thirty years ago your mum got a lovely house on X estate, but you can't get the same. Mum and most of her neighbours probably bought theirs!

working in local government can be a well paid, secure job, but being good at your role won't necessarily bring promotion. I've worked with people who have been fantastic managers and colleagues, as well as some who are basically time servers. There is no 'one size fits all'.

People that use the term 'jobsworth' to describe any public sector worker. Jobsworth essentially comes from the term "its more than my job's worth", - it could cost the worker their employment or result in disciplinary action. In other words the selfish inconsiderate git making the accusation wants some kind of exceptional and special treatment quite possibly costing someone their job because somehow they are special and the rules that apply to everyone else should not apply to them.

Spot on. It is not the people at the sharp end that are making the rules. It is the people that are in an office somewhere and never have to take flack, and then if things kick off they nearly always say the worker should have used common sense even though no common sense comes from them . I often wonder if the people complaining would put their job in jeopardy for someone that they don't know. I think we can safely answer that one.

As you say, you get it in any walk of life. I think when you give some people a bit of power it goes to their head.

 

You raise another issue actually, the 'a friend of mine' situation. I know you'll always believe your friend over a stranger on an internet forum, but the amount of times I've seen on here people posting something as fact that they've been told from someone else. Your friend for instance, did they definitely have the right paperwork or were they just angry because they'd taken what they thought was acceptable only to be told the Council needed more? If it's related to certificates that allow you to practice, for instance health and safety or insurance, if the correct documentation wasn't supplied, firstly the person processing that would get in trouble for doing their job wrong, and would you really want that person practicing if they didn't have the relevent qualification/h&s certificate/insurance.

A different caseworker allowed her to undertake her classes in a different park with exactly the same documentation.

---------- Post added 29-09-2016 at 11:28 ----------

People that use the term 'jobsworth' to describe any public sector worker. Jobsworth essentially comes from the term "its more than my job's worth", - it could cost the worker their employment or result in disciplinary action. In other words the selfish inconsiderate git making the accusation wants some kind of exceptional and special treatment quite possibly costing someone their job because somehow they are special and the rules that apply to everyone else should not apply to them.

Why do you believe that only applies to public sector workers? Absolute rot. Each case needs to be assessed on its individual merits but as someone who works in numerous schools throughout the country I meet lots of people who do things "because that's how we've always done it"etc. People who have no semblance of making theirs and other people's lives easier by being flexible. My experiences in schools have nothing to do with nor directly impacetwhat happens in my work or life but only serve to make the individual's worklife more difficult.

Why do you believe that only applies to public sector workers? Absolute rot. Each case needs to be assessed on its individual merits but as someone who works in numerous schools throughout the country I meet lots of people who do things "because that's how we've always done it"etc. People who have no semblance of making theirs and other people's lives easier by being flexible. My experiences in schools have nothing to do with nor directly impacetwhat happens in my work or life but only serve to make the individual's worklife more difficult.

In other words, you feel they should do it your way because that's the way you believe it should be done. In my experience doing things differently just because it is easier is a very dangerous route to take. When doing things a certain way seems to make things more difficult than you think they should be there is almost always a very good reason, often an established protocol there to protect everyone involved, usually as a result of painfully earned experience. The fact that 'that' hasn't been a problem for years is usually because people have been following protocol.

I didn't say 'only applies to public sector workers'.

Why do you believe that only applies to public sector workers? Absolute rot. Each case needs to be assessed on its individual merits but as someone who works in numerous schools throughout the country I meet lots of people who do things "because that's how we've always done it"etc. People who have no semblance of making theirs and other people's lives easier by being flexible. My experiences in schools have nothing to do with nor directly impacetwhat happens in my work or life but only serve to make the individual's worklife more difficult.

In other words, you feel they should do it your way because that's the way you believe it should be done. In my experience doing things differently just because it is easier is a very dangerous route to take. When doing things a certain way seems to make things more difficult than you think they should be there is almost always a very good reason, often an established protocol there to protect everyone involved, usually as a result of painfully earned experience. The fact that 'that' hasn't been a problem for years is usually because people have been following protocol.

I didn't say 'only applies to public sector workers'.

And your thinking is one of the reasons companies, schools, councils etc throughout the world never progress.

Rotherham are not much better