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22-05-2017, 18:59   #81
I1L2T3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdoctor View Post
Tactical voters are untrustworthy people in my opinion. It's pettiness voting for a candidate which is not your first choice, in the hope of preventing a third party candidate from winning.
It's a good way of avoiding something you don't want
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22-05-2017, 19:19   #82
Lockdoctor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I1L2T3 View Post
It's a good way of avoiding something you don't want
Yes, I understand the motives for tactical voting. Do you think by doing it, then you are showing a lack of respect for your fellow citizens, who want something different to yourself?
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22-05-2017, 19:28   #83
I1L2T3
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Originally Posted by Lockdoctor View Post
Yes, I understand the motives for tactical voting. Do you think by doing it, then you are showing a lack of respect for your fellow citizens, who want something different to yourself?
No because you can generally vote to get what you want, and if you can't get that you can vote against something you don't want. It's a completely rational and logical choice.

I won't be doing that, but I understand why people do.
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22-05-2017, 19:39   #84
GLASGOWOODS
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Originally Posted by dutch View Post
Corbyn is a lot better than ed Miliband. You rather get someone else like Miliband in there?
Ed is another reason why Labour didn't get my vote last time round.

---------- Post added 22-05-2017 at 19:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna B View Post
But do you like Labour's policies?

If you prefer them to the Tory's then vote Labour.
Sorry, I can't bring myself to vote for Labour while those two muppets are kicking around. Policies are ok, but where is the money coming from to pay for it all? I wont be voting tory either.
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22-05-2017, 21:42   #85
RiffRaff
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Frankly I'm a bit of a nonpolitical animal, but something inside suggests that the Green Party should be better supported.
That said, considering their leader is vehement that overseas aid should actually increase - to 1% of GDP? - when it could be argued that 'charity should begin at home', I'm not so sure...
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22-05-2017, 21:48   #86
poppet2
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[QUOTE=GLASGOWOODS;11664566]Ed is another reason why Labour didn't get my vote last time round.[QUOTE]

Who would you have liked to be the Labour leader?
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22-05-2017, 23:21   #87
Anna B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLASGOWOODS View Post
Ed is another reason why Labour didn't get my vote last time round.

---------- Post added 22-05-2017 at 19:45 ----------



Sorry, I can't bring myself to vote for Labour while those two muppets are kicking around. Policies are ok, but where is the money coming from to pay for it all? I wont be voting tory either.
Can I ask you what you know about Mr Corbyn? Have you heard him speak at any length? I wouldn't be surprised if you hadn't as he's been deliberately suppressed. He's had this agenda since before he became Leader of the Opposition, and that's why they have tried to ridicule and besmirch him and his character. Many, many people love him. They can't all be wrong can they?

And I'm normally a Lib Dem voter, it was my son who brought Mr Corbyn to my attention, before that I thought like you. Now I think that rare thing in politics, a decent, honest man with integrity, should be given a chance. I think he'll do very well for us.
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Yesterday, 08:16   #88
dutch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLASGOWOODS View Post
Ed is another reason why Labour didn't get my vote last time round.

---------- Post added 22-05-2017 at 19:45 ----------



Sorry, I can't bring myself to vote for Labour while those two muppets are kicking around. Policies are ok, but where is the money coming from to pay for it all? I wont be voting tory either.
Corbyn is very left and has never given up on this. Tony blair almost got rid of him but benn saved his position.

Thing about corbyn is that he sticks to his position. If you read the book written about him "Comrade Corbyn" you actually get to see that he is the strong stable focused one who works his ass of to help everyone to have a better life.
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Yesterday, 08:17   #89
sgtkate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdoctor View Post
You seem a confused person. At one time women wrongly didn't get the vote. As a woman, you should have more respect for the democratic process. I don't mix with people who say"I can't stand that guy!". You would do better looking for positives rather than negatives.

Shame on you!
LOL. At one time it's likely none of us on here would have got the vote as we weren't wealthy enough, but we don't live there now so I'm struggling to see the relevance.

I'm going to try to remain polite with you even though you decided to have personal go at me for an unknown reason. Imagine you were an LD supporter predominantly, with Tories second and Labour third (ignoring the other minor parties for simplification), and you lived in a seat which was very tight between Tories and Labour with LDs likely to come a distant third. You'd love an LD government and MP but accept realistically they won't get enough votes in your area no matter what canvassing you did for them, therefore your MP is going to be either Labour or Tories. You agree much much more with the Tories than Labour and therefore decide to vote for them to help make sure the seat at least goes to an MP you align mostly with as opposed to someone you don't agree with on any level.

Do you understand this concept now? It's not about negative voting, it's about thinking for the scenarios that are the best for you and trying to achieve them. I'd much rather a Green government than a Labour one, but I'd much rather a Labour gov than a Tory one, so if my choice is between voting Green and getting Tory, or voting Labour and getting Labour then it would be Labour for me.

---------- Post added 23-05-2017 at 08:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff View Post
Frankly I'm a bit of a nonpolitical animal, but something inside suggests that the Green Party should be better supported.
That said, considering their leader is vehement that overseas aid should actually increase - to 1% of GDP? - when it could be argued that 'charity should begin at home', I'm not so sure...
It all depends how that aid is delivered as to whether I support it or not. If it's just more money chucked over and left for corruption then no, there's no point, in fact that might make things worse. If it's local-led, small scale, need based initiatives then I'd totally support it. I've not seen enough of the plans to know which version they support but knowing the general mindset of the Greens it's likely to be the latter.

There is a distinct economic advantage to helping other countries as well in that if they have more money they can buy more stuff from us if you are so inclined.
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Yesterday, 09:08   #90
Lockdoctor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
LOL. At one time it's likely none of us on here would have got the vote as we weren't wealthy enough, but we don't live there now so I'm struggling to see the relevance.

I'm going to try to remain polite with you even though you decided to have personal go at me for an unknown reason. Imagine you were an LD supporter predominantly, with Tories second and Labour third (ignoring the other minor parties for simplification), and you lived in a seat which was very tight between Tories and Labour with LDs likely to come a distant third. You'd love an LD government and MP but accept realistically they won't get enough votes in your area no matter what canvassing you did for them, therefore your MP is going to be either Labour or Tories. You agree much much more with the Tories than Labour and therefore decide to vote for them to help make sure the seat at least goes to an MP you align mostly with as opposed to someone you don't agree with on any level.

Do you understand this concept now? It's not about negative voting, it's about thinking for the scenarios that are the best for you and trying to achieve them. I'd much rather a Green government than a Labour one, but I'd much rather a Labour gov than a Tory one, so if my choice is between voting Green and getting Tory, or voting Labour and getting Labour then it would be Labour for me.

Did you not see my post, which I stated I understand the motives for tactical voting?

You seem to be a selfish person as well as a confused person. If you are a LD supporter, then should vote LD, regardless of any predictions based on past results. Voting for a party which is not your first choice, is negativity in my opinion.
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Yesterday, 09:14   #91
sgtkate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdoctor View Post
Did you not see my post, which I stated I understand the motives for tactical voting?

You seem to be a selfish person as well as a confused person. If you are a LD supporter, then should vote LD, regardless of any predictions based on past results. Voting for a party which is not your first choice, is negativity in my opinion.
According to you, random angry internet guy, I am now:

- Selfish
- Confused
- Untrustworthy

Are you sure you aren't my OH?
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Yesterday, 09:16   #92
El Cid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdoctor View Post
Voting for a party which is not your first choice, is negativity in my opinion.
In some instances, parties stand down to allow a clean fight between other parties.
Some then don't have a choice. If we had PR then there would be no such thing as tactical voting.
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Yesterday, 09:22   #93
max
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLASGOWOODS View Post
Ed is another reason why Labour didn't get my vote last time round.

---------- Post added 22-05-2017 at 19:45 ----------



Sorry, I can't bring myself to vote for Labour while those two muppets are kicking around. Policies are ok, but where is the money coming from to pay for it all? I wont be voting tory either.
I think you're confusing the Tory and Labour manifestos. It's the Tory one which is un-costed, Theresa May not even being able to say what the cap will be, whereas the Labour one is fully costed.
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Yesterday, 09:24   #94
Anna B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdoctor View Post
Did you not see my post, which I stated I understand the motives for tactical voting?

You seem to be a selfish person as well as a confused person. If you are a LD supporter, then should vote LD, regardless of any predictions based on past results. Voting for a party which is not your first choice, is negativity in my opinion.
Whoa. What's with the personal attacks? You can make your point without being insulting.
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Yesterday, 09:34   #95
Lockdoctor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
According to you, random angry internet guy, I am now:

- Selfish
- Confused
- Untrustworthy

Are you sure you aren't my OH?
I am not angry. If I vote for a candidate and they lose, then I hope the winning candidate does a good job and feel I have done my bit for democracy. Please don't take my comments personally. My comments apply to all those who carry out tactical voting.

Tactical voting can end up with people ruling, who nobody really want and is a little like playing Russian roulette.
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Yesterday, 09:44   #96
sgtkate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdoctor View Post
I am not angry. If I vote for a candidate and they lose, then I hope the winning candidate does a good job and feel I have done my bit for democracy. Please don't take my comments personally. My comments apply to all those who carry out tactical voting.

Tactical voting can end up with people ruling, who nobody really want and is a little like playing Russian roulette.
I feel the same mostly, however for me it's just almost as important that I don't end up with a candidate I dislike as much as I end up with one I do like. It's not untrustworthy, lacking respect, confused, selfish or wrong, it's a valid part of democracy.

How would you vote in this situation:

Your chosen party is predicted to come third. Someone who wants to make sex with children legal is somehow jointly leading the polls alongside another candidate. Do you:
a) vote for your candidate knowing he/she can't win
b) vote for the other leading candidate so it's less likely the child sex legaliser gets in?

So whilst I've picked a ridiculous extreme, that's close to how I feel about the Tories, therefore for me (and we only vote for ourselves and what we believe, remember) it's as important for my vote to help stop the Tories as it is to support a specific candidate.

I have clearly thought about this, I always think long and hard about my vote, I have voted for all 3 major parties as various points in my life by looking at what has been offered and what I feel is the best for the country. This time I genuinely believe that the Tory party are dangerous for us, much more so than Corbyn, therefore I believe that the best thing for the country is to stop a massive Tory majority and I will vote in the best way to make that happen.

I just take offence at you somehow insinuating I'm trying to overthrow democracy or have no respect for it because I think about my vote in a wider context than just voting for someone with a nice coloured rosette. Everyone votes in different ways for different reasons and to start being so openly judgmental to someone you don't know anything about isn't a great way to have a clean debate.
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Yesterday, 11:30   #97
Obelix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtkate View Post
According to you, random angry internet guy, I am now:

- Selfish
- Confused
- Untrustworthy

Are you sure you aren't my OH?
Kate you owe me the cup of coffee I just snorted over my screen!

---------- Post added 23-05-2017 at 11:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
In some instances, parties stand down to allow a clean fight between other parties.
Some then don't have a choice. If we had PR then there would be no such thing as tactical voting.
As I recall there was a famous one involving Martin Bell in Tatton
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Yesterday, 12:55   #98
dangerousedd
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I wished they stop sending me those letters on behalf of Theresa may or angela smith getting tedious having to stick them in the bin.

i'll probably still vote labour even if I don't like some of their policies and I don't think the nhs will be safe under them or any political party.
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