Toby Foster and Harrow Halal meat

So what your saying is what ? its wrong to want to use the most humane form to kill animals ? that people are just making waves for the hell of it and should keep stum and dismiss their concerns for the sake of religion and 'getting on' ?

 

Im not sure what your saying, please replace the word dissenter with a word more suitable to give us a better understanding.

folks dont moan when they're tucking into a chicken tikka massala at the Curry Centre.

Whats that all about ? how does that bolster your argument ?

 

If people who ate chicken had to eat it knowing that say they were now killed from having its head ripped off then Im sure people would raise 'legitimate' concern.

 

We need meat, we have to kill, but what we don't have to do is do it any other way than what we know to be the best practice, the argument is a moral one as much as anything else.

Anyway, back to the - ahem - meat of today's story:

 

Brit kids forced to eat halal school dinners

Furious parents last night hit out at plans to serve halal-only school dinners.

 

Pupils will have no option but to eat meat slaughtered following Islamic teachings specifically for Muslims.

 

 

Use of words such as 'forced' and 'have no option' feed into the tabloid narrative about 'Britain' changing only because of them Muslims.

 

But the BBC version of the same story has a rather different take on how much this is going to be 'forced' on people:

 

A north London council is offering its primary schools the chance to serve only halal meat on its menus.

Nine Harrow secondary schools already provide pupils with meat prepared according to Islamic law in a scheme that has been running for two years.

 

Harrow Council said it had received "no complaints" about serving halal-only meat, with vegetarian and fish options.

 

Now 52 primary schools in the area will have the option of taking part in the same programme.

 

Harrow councillor Brian Gate said it would be the choice of individual schools as to whether or not they chose to use catering firm Harrison Catering Services, which serves halal-only meat.

 

"The decision about whether to use an individual provider is for schools to make, as the funding is delegated to them," Councillor Gate said.

 

 

So the schools can use a catering company that provides halal meat if they want or they can choose another firm altogether. (And presumably, kids still have the option of taking packed lunches.)

 

Yet the Star maintains:

 

all high schools in the London borough of Harrow have been told to provide only halal meat on menus.

 

 

Even the Mail, after covering all the usual 'fury' and 'outrage', admits:

 

The contract for providing meals to Harrow primaries is up for renewal and the council is planning to bring in Harrison's.

 

The council says primaries do not have to use its preferred caterer and governors are free to negotiate their own deals if they wish. Only two primaries have so far signed up.

 

 

And the local Harrow Observer, which originally broke the story, said:

 

Harrow Council has employed a catering company to only prepare Halal meat – to serve youngsters in Harrow.

 

Primary schools are free to opt in to the programme or look elsewhere for their meals

 

 

Star hack Gary Nicks fails to mention that it is optional anywhere in the article, thus leaving the completely false impression that it is being 'forced' on pupils.

 

 

The Mail and Star versions of this story are a pack of lies.

Apologies Inigo montoya, missed your post.

I'm referring more to the casual observer, than the RSPCA, who as far as I can see haven't commented on Harrow's school meals policy.

No one is a casual observer in the wider society. You have a right to have opinions on things that directly affect you or the moral compass of the country.

If I buy meat and its had its throat cut then I am party to it and not an observer.

The RSPCA like many organisations are that weary about treading in the multicultural mine field of our own creation that they dare not say directly anything. They have a statement on their stance on it but that's like the social services just having a statement up that they thing paedophiles are wrong and doing little else.

The 'casual observer' or British citizens as we like to be called, can have opinions on issues, and your wrong to try and blow them out of the water just because they may slightly offend.

Edited August 7, 2010 by hard2miss

So what your saying is what ? its wrong to want to use the most humane form to kill animals ? that people are just making waves for the hell of it and should keep stum and dismiss their concerns for the sake of religion and 'getting on' ?

I'm not saying that at all hard2miss, but it hasn't been established that the halal meat that's being supplied to Harlow schools isn't pre-stunned, unless you believe other aspects regarding the slaughter of halal meat are inhumane?

Im not sure what your saying, please replace the word dissenter with a word more suitable to give us a better understanding.

People who are raising the issue without full possession of the facts, but are using the issue as an excuse to be critical of Muslims, rather than a deep held conviction for animal welfare.

No one is a casual observer in the wider society. You have a right to have opinions on things that directly affect you or the moral compass of the country.

If I buy meat and its had its throat cut then I am party to it and not an observer.

The RSPCA like many organisations are that weary about treading in the multicultural mine field of our own creation that they dare not say directly anything. They have a statement on their stance on it but that's like the social services just having a statement up that they thing paedophiles are wrong and doing little else.

The 'casual observer' or British citizens as we like to be called, can have opinions on issues, and your wrong to try and blow them out of the water just because they may slightly offend.

 

I'm not saying people aren't entitled to their opinion, but what legitimate objection could there be to pre stunned halal meat? That's my only point.

Whats that all about ? how does that bolster your argument ?

..because the British public would not forego their favourite takeaway for animal welfare reasons, yet criticise halal meat when Muslims want to eat it.

If people who ate chicken had to eat it knowing that say they were now killed from having its head ripped off then Im sure people would raise 'legitimate' concern.

..and that would be a totally valid argument, but I dont think halal chickens have their heads 'ripped off'.

We need meat, we have to kill, but what we don't have to do is do it any other way than what we know to be the best practice, the argument is a moral one as much as anything else.

..and what is the difference between the slaughter of pre-stunned halal meat and conventional meat from a humane point of view?

I'm not saying that at all hard2miss, but it hasn't been established that the halal meat that's being supplied to Harlow schools isn't pre-stunned, unless you believe other aspects regarding the slaughter of halal meat are inhumane?

 

I personally do not but others may and they don't deserve to be labelled for their thoughts or fears on issues.

My own thoughts on it is that hal hal is not generally stunned, it may be now at the present time to subdue any argument against it but its not the norm and is exceptional to places in the UK so its a legitimate and probable cause for concern. Now if its stunned, and like you say its not been established, but people can air on the side of caution and assume its not if they wish, IF it is stunned then I personally think that the animal is dead anyhow at that point and how the death is carried out is irrelevant so the only argument left to anyone is a cultural one, one I don't care for, but never the less I would stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone wanting the right to have that concern.

I personally do not but others may and they don't deserve to be labelled for their thoughts or fears on issues.

I'm not labelling anybody, but this thread is specifically about meat being supplied to (some) Harrow schools-there's nothing to fear until there's been confirmation that the meat is being supplied from carcasses that haven't been pre-stunned, although simple mention of the word 'halal' seems to be enough to arouse people's indignation.

 

My own thoughts on it is that hal hal is not generally stunned, it may be now at the present time to subdue any argument against it but its not the norm and is exceptional to places in the UK so its a legitimate and probable cause for concern.

Commercial halal meat is generally pre stunned, I know this from a halal butcher who wholesales meat to supermarkets, there would be no market for it if that wasn't the case, as buyers would not put it on their purchase list. I also posted a link at the beginning to the SCC site, where they confirm all halal meat supplied to Sheffield schools is pre-stunned, I cant think why Harrow would be any different. I'm sure smaller slaughterhouses dont routinely pre-stun, because they're not under the same commercial pressures, but their product won't be entering the mass market food chain.

Now if its stunned, and like you say its not been established, but people can air on the side of caution and assume its not if they wish, IF it is stunned then I personally think that the animal is dead anyhow at that point and how the death is carried out is irrelevant so the only argument left to anyone is a cultural one, one I don't care for, but never the less I would stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone wanting the right to have that concern.

..and on that point we both agree, but if people make negative assumptions about halal meat rather than base their position on facts, then they become the dissenters I referred to earlier. If it turns out Harrow school are serving meat that hasn't been pre-stunned then I'll happily join in with the condemnation.

You crack me up with multi quoting BF

 

I never know where to start replying to such posts

Toby Foster was ****ing hilarious when I saw him at Comedy Club as compere (sp).