[andyofborg]

Originally Posted by anarchist

They don't need any policies as they will not be involved in any role where their views would be taken into account.

that's quite correct, but i was mildly curious as to what, if any, policies they had other than leaving the EU.

that Nigel bloke with the funny surname who is in charge of them will be out of his very well paid MEP job so I guess he might not be trying too hard for them to win.

[zongamin]

Originally Posted by anarchist

I am sure Cameron will be crapping himself at the prospect of you voting UKIP.

Actually he probably will.

The threat to the Tories is not that UKIP will win seats, but that they will split the right wing vote and prevent the Tories from winning in marginal seats.

If a couple of thousand people vote UKIP instead of Conservative in the marginal seats it could be enough to wreck their chances.

[iansheff]

Maybe I am just a cynic but I think Cameron knew all along that it would be ratified and so was on pretty safe ground about a referendum. Also I would love to ask a Labour MP on Question Time why they think that anyone should vote for them, how can we believe anything they promise after renaging on the referendum pledge in their manifesto.

[andyofborg]

Originally Posted by iansheff

Maybe I am just a cynic but I think Cameron knew all along that it would be ratified and so was on pretty safe ground about a referendum. Also I would love to ask a Labour MP on Question Time why they think that anyone should vote for them, how can we believe anything they promise after renaging on the referendum pledge in their manifesto.

the manifesto pledge was a referendum on the defunct european constitution.

the lisbon treaty isn't the constitution but an administrative treaty which will make running the EU simpler and saner and so doesn't require a referendum.

[anarchist]

Originally Posted by iansheff

Maybe I am just a cynic but I think Cameron knew all along that it would be ratified and so was on pretty safe ground about a referendum. Also I would love to ask a Labour MP on Question Time why they think that anyone should vote for them, how can we believe anything they promise after renaging on the referendum pledge in their manifesto.

You can't say that Labour didn't make a habit of lying about policies and promises they never intended keeping. They started that in 1997.

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[Greybeard]

Originally Posted by andyofborg

that's quite correct, but i was mildly curious as to what, if any, policies they had other than leaving the EU.

The UKIP seem to have some quite sensible policies.

What they don't have is a Lord Ashcroft or a Trade Union movement to bank-roll them.

Cameron's promise was made to appease all the Colonel Blimps in the PCP and grass-roots membership and get himself elected leader.

[LordChaverly]

Originally Posted by andyofborg

the manifesto pledge was a referendum on the defunct european constitution.

the lisbon treaty isn't the constitution but an administrative treaty which will make running the EU simpler and saner and so doesn't require a referendum.

The contents of the Constitutional Treaty and of the Lisbon Treaty are in fact very similar. The only really substantive differences between them are of nomenclature and of symbolism. Thus all references to a 'constitution' and to EU symbols, such as references to the EU flag and anthem are mentioned in the CT but not in the LT. Similarly, the reference to a 'Minister of Foreign Affairs' was changed in the LT to the term 'High Representative', but the functions of the post remain essentially the same. None other than Giscard D'estaing, whose job it was to formulate the Constitutional Treaty, is on record as saying that the CT and the LT are essentially the same. Angela Merkel has also said the same thing.

As for the referendum issue, the reasons why the Labour government is able to claim that it has not reneged on its commitment to hold a referendum on the next treaty are that (a) the Constitutional and Lisbon Treaties are quite different (absolutely false); and (b) the Labour government secured opt outs from certain provisions of the Lisbon Treaty, for example in relation to the Charter of Fundamental Rights and Schengen (true).

[grafikhaus74]

Originally Posted by andyofborg

the manifesto pledge was a referendum on the defunct european constitution.

the lisbon treaty isn't the constitution but an administrative treaty which will make running the EU simpler and saner and so doesn't require a referendum.

We were given a promise of a referendum on the 'Constitution', they've gone away, made some minor changes ('tidied up' in their words) and re-named it 'The Lisbon Treaty'. If, for once Labour didn't lie and allowed us a vote on the LT, they'd have been defeated and gone away, made a few more slight changes and called it 'Lisbon Treaty 2' or some such. That's how Labour work, in conjunction with that retirement home for failed politicians called the EU.

Last night on Newsnight Paxman actually insisted we have been given a referendum on Europe in 1974. Yes, on the Common Market - a unified and mutual trading zone between member countries.
Since then, of course the EU bears no resemblance to what it set out to be. For a start, back then only economically strong countries were members, now it's got the same entry procedures as the Eurovision Song Contest and the UK, Germany and France are picking up the tab for historically backward, weak countries. Moldova, anyone?

Brown, in PMQs has just said that 'this (Labour) party does not make cast-iron promises it does not intend to keep.'

The lies that Brown and his party come out with on a daily basis are quite staggering.

So now the ball is in Cameron's court. Unless he wants to throw away his best chance to be voted in next year (and he's definitely showing signs of being as bad as the rest of them), he should promise more referenda as this lot have proved they're not capable of listening to any opinions apart from their own self-serving needs.

These should be (within 6 months of forming a party), continued membership of the EU, a serious prison-building and police recruitment drive to protect the public from the Labour-planned invasion of our country and a full and serious debate on future population increases in the UK.


>>> Breaking news! Sir Ian Kennedy has just be appointed chair of the 'Independent' Parliamentary Standards Authority at a mere £100k per year.

This will be the establishment lickspittle who will make sure Sir Chris Kelly's recommendations on MPs expenses are watered down.

You couldn't make it up.