[Lickszz]

With the clocks due to go back 1 hour this weekend I just wanted to ask what peoples thoughts are about this.

Should we leave the clocks alone, if so what would be the avantages/disadvantages?

I've seen it quoted somewhere that a couple of hundreds lives at least will be lost due to the clocks going back. Where they get these kind of precise figures from is beyond me.

[t020]

Originally posted by Lickszz
With the clocks due to go back 1 hour this weekend I just wanted to ask what are peoples thoughts were about this.

Should we leave the clocks alone, if so what would be the avantages/disadvantages?

I've seen it quoted somewhere that a couple of hundreds lives at least will be lost due to the clocks going back. Where they get these kind of precise figures from is beyond me.

I quite like the clocks changing, especially from BST to GMT like this weekend where you get an extra hour in bed. It gives people something to talk about, so leave it as it is I say.

[Spacehopper]

Nah Den Ace......

The clocks always went back or forward one hour when I was a kid, and it never did me any harm. If this practice was to go the same way as National Service, Corporal Punishment and Olde English Flavoured Spangles, can you begin to imagine the detrimental effect that this would have on the moral fibre of our nation's youth?

It just doesn't bare thinking about!

Regards,

Spacehopper.

[purplepippa]

Leave the clocks alone I say.

It's depressing enough when it starts to go dark early, but then all of a sudden to lose an extra hour is horrendous.

I hate winter. I hate snow. I hate cold. I hate darkness. Bleurgh.

[t020]

Originally posted by purplepippa

It's depressing enough when it starts to go dark early, but then all of a sudden to lose an extra hour is horrendous.

But if the clocks didn't go back to GMT, the mornings would be even darker. E.g. It is still dark at 7am now, but after Saturday, this will be equivalent to being dark at 6am. After Saturday 7am will be equivalent to 8am is now, i.e. lighter. Do you understand now?

[alchresearch]

GMT is a world standard. It seems a shame that we have to lose it for a few short months to BST.

Wasn't BST first introduced to provide longer hours of daylight in the summer months for farmers and land workers?

[alchresearch]

Originally posted by t020
But if the clocks didn't go back to GMT, the mornings would be even darker. E.g. It is still dark at 7am now, but after Saturday, this will be equivalent to being dark at 6am. After Saturday 7am will be equivalent to 8am is now, i.e. lighter. Do you understand now?

Who cares if it is dark at 7am? Surely it would be better for all to have the afternoons and evenings as light as possible? During winter it gets dark by 4pm when much more people (especially schoolkids) are up and around than at 7am.

[t020]

Originally posted by alchresearch
Who cares if it is dark at 7am? Surely it would be better for all to have the afternoons and evenings as light as possible? During winter it gets dark by 4pm when much more people (especially schoolkids) are up and around than at 7am.

If you cared to follow the thread then you would see that I was clearing up an issue raised by purplepippa, who seemed to be under the wrong impression that turning the clocks back an hour makes it darker in the mornings - she said she hates dark mornings as it is without turning back an hour too. Also, 7am was purely an example. Plenty of kids walk to school at, say, 8.30am, which if the clocks didn't go back this weekend, would still be very dark in a month or so. Thanks to the clocks going back though, 8.30am should be light throughout the winter.

[purplepippa]

Originally posted by t020
But if the clocks didn't go back to GMT, the mornings would be even darker. E.g. It is still dark at 7am now, but after Saturday, this will be equivalent to being dark at 6am. After Saturday 7am will be equivalent to 8am is now, i.e. lighter. Do you understand now?

Actually t020 I understood in the first place. I never mentioned mornings.

I don't care how light or dark it is at 7am. It's the evenings that bother me.

[purplepippa]

Originally posted by t020
If you cared to follow the thread then you would see that I was clearing up an issue raised by purplepippa, who seemed to be under the wrong impression that turning the clocks back an hour makes it darker in the mornings - she said she hates dark mornings as it is without turning back an hour too. Also, 7am was purely an example. Plenty of kids walk to school at, say, 8.30am, which if the clocks didn't go back this weekend, would still be very dark in a month or so. Thanks to the clocks going back though, 8.30am should be light throughout the winter.

Will you read what I wrote before making out that I'm stupid??

I never mentioned mornings!

[Agent Dan]

Originally posted by alchresearch
Wasn't BST first introduced to provide longer hours of daylight in the summer months for farmers and land workers?

Yup it was. Introduced during 1939 in WWII to confuse the bosch and provide extra hours of daylight to grow food. Never had it before then, and I think we should get rid of it. You wouldn't lose an hour or gain one ever again... much simpler and lighter in afternoons in winter - I wouldn't have to walk home in the dark as much!!!

[*Twinkle*]

Will you read what I wrote before making out that I'm stupid??

I'm not sure he's capable of doing that Purplepippa. He hasn't made you look stupid either, only himself. As ever.

[robh]

Originally posted by purplepippa
Will you read what I wrote before making out that I'm stupid??

I never mentioned mornings!

He didn't make you look stupid. He read your posting too quickly and misunderstood. He made a mistake and one in no way reflecting badly on you. I expect he would have apologised to the forum (not to you because he has not criticised you in any way) once he realised but if he finds himself under attack he's less likely to. It doesn't help anyone on here if the slightest mistake turns into an excuse for a slanging match.

Can't we all just work on the principle that 99% of the time, regular posters in particular aren't out to put people down, the whole system relies on good-will and cool-heads.

If we are just going to keep reacting like schoolkids then, in my book, the forum is a dead-duck.

[Nutronic]

I dont know if the following is true or not:

Like the USA we also have different time zones, Scotland is always ahead of england and wales because it goes darker at least 30mins before us.

Is that true?

[robh]

Originally posted by Lickszz
I've seen it quoted somewhere that a couple of hundreds lives at least will be lost due to the clocks going back. Where they get these kind of precise figures from is beyond me.

The figures may be from the government road safety research labs and they said in respect of a suggestion that we switch to double summertime (i.e. put the clocks forward by a second hour )
(Handard report extract):

Mr. Jamieson: The potential road safety implications of a change to Single Double Summertime have been previously investigated. A Government commissioned report by the Transport Research Laboratory (TRL), published in October 1998, concluded that if clocks were put forward a further hour over both the periods i.e. October to March and March to October, thereby making the evenings lighter, there could be a saving of over 100 deaths per year. The potential savings have not been mentioned again since then. But we are therefore aware of the potential road safety benefits. However, a wide variety of issues would have to be considered very carefully if a move to Single Double Summertime was to be considered, of which casualty savings is just one.


We did experiment with permanent summertime 1968-71 which did save lives but was not popular with the public.

...This confirms earlier research which showed that the 1968/71 experiment, when British Standard Time (GMT + 1) was employed all year round (the clocks were advanced in March 1968 and not put back until October 1971) saved around 2,500 deaths and serious injuries each year of the trial period. Although there would be more casualties in the morning during the Winter, these would be outweighed by the reduction in casualties due to an hour of extra daylight in the Winter evenings, producing a net reduction. Extra evening daylight protects vulnerable road users like children, the elderly, cyclists and motorcyclists, making them more visible to motorists. There are more accidents in the afternoon rush hour during the week than in the morning. Motorists are more tired after a day at work and concentration levels are lower. Children tend to go straight to school in the morning but may deviate in their journey home, making stops, thus increasing their exposure to the road environment. Social trips are generally made in the afternoon/evening, often on the way home from school/work.

The fact is that the further you are from the equator the greater the summer/winter day length fluctuation and a great many of the more northerly countries have some kind of clock adjustment to compensate.

[robh]

Originally posted by SheffieldLive
I dont know if the following is true or not:

Like the USA we also have different time zones, Scotland is always ahead of england and wales because it goes darker at least 30mins before us.

Is that true?

Kind of. Before the railways Cornwall was about 20 minutes before London because mid-day was the time when the sun is highest in the sky and that depends how far east or west you are.
When the railways made travel so much faster and easier, changing your watch every time you got off a train was silly and the railway companies set the standard by their GMT related timetables.
In places like the USA, being so far from east to west standardisation would be silly too, with 4 hours difference across the continent so they split the country into time zones - 4 vertical strips each of which runs to a different clock.

[Agent Dan]

Yeah but we don't need to adjust our clocks anymore. It doesn't have any genuine practical implications, except hours of daylight being earlier or later. And scotland and wales don't have different timezones, as timezones are decided by latitude not longitude... which means that north/south doesn't make any difference just east to west (the axis of the sun)

[Lickszz]

Originally posted by SheffieldLive
I dont know if the following is true or not:

Like the USA we also have different time zones, Scotland is always ahead of england and wales because it goes darker at least 30mins before us.

Is that true?

Yes that is true about Scotland. it does go darker sooner than the South of England

[Lickszz]

Originally posted by robh
The figures may be from the government road safety research labs and they said in respect of a suggestion that we switch to double summertime (i.e. put the clocks forward by a second hour )
(Handard report extract):

Mr. Jamieson: The potential road safety implications of a change to Single Double Summertime have been previously investigated. A Government commissioned report by the Transport Research Laboratory (TRL), published in October 1998, concluded that if clocks were put forward a further hour over both the periods i.e. October to March and March to October, thereby making the evenings lighter, there could be a saving of over 100 deaths per year. The potential savings have not been mentioned again since then. But we are therefore aware of the potential road safety benefits. However, a wide variety of issues would have to be considered very carefully if a move to Single Double Summertime was to be considered, of which casualty savings is just one.


We did experiment with permanent summertime 1968-71 which did save lives but was not popular with the public.

...This confirms earlier research which showed that the 1968/71 experiment, when British Standard Time (GMT + 1) was employed all year round (the clocks were advanced in March 1968 and not put back until October 1971) saved around 2,500 deaths and serious injuries each year of the trial period. Although there would be more casualties in the morning during the Winter, these would be outweighed by the reduction in casualties due to an hour of extra daylight in the Winter evenings, producing a net reduction. Extra evening daylight protects vulnerable road users like children, the elderly, cyclists and motorcyclists, making them more visible to motorists. There are more accidents in the afternoon rush hour during the week than in the morning. Motorists are more tired after a day at work and concentration levels are lower. Children tend to go straight to school in the morning but may deviate in their journey home, making stops, thus increasing their exposure to the road environment. Social trips are generally made in the afternoon/evening, often on the way home from school/work.

The fact is that the further you are from the equator the greater the summer/winter day length fluctuation and a great many of the more northerly countries have some kind of clock adjustment to compensate.

I expect that these figures I had heard maybe somewhat out of date then.

Wasn't double British summer time introduced during the war to save on fuel but they called it European time? - Less lighting needed during normal working hours. Then discontinued to please Scottish farmers or more accurately, their cows.

[Carlwarker]

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Yup it was. Introduced during 1939 in WWII to confuse the bosch and provide extra hours of daylight to grow food. Never had it before then, and I think we should get rid of it. You wouldn't lose an hour or gain one ever again... much simpler and lighter in afternoons in winter - I wouldn't have to walk home in the dark as much!!!

Actually, it was first introduced in 1916, during World War I.