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Holocaust Denier Irving Freed

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Encarta quotes Camp Commandant Rudolf Hoess (no umlauts I'm afraid) as stating a minimum of 2.5 million deaths at Auschwitz, never mind the other camps.

 

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761562579/Auschwitz.html

I believe the statement by Hoess was made under duress and is not regarded as reliable. The museum authorities would have taken account of this in deciding to publish a maximum figure of 1 million.

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angle20 why are you so obsessed with quibbling over the number of people murdered by the Nazis?

 

It is an undeniable historical fact that the Nazi's had a policy of ethnically cleansing 'the Reich' of people they defined as undesirable, ie. Jews, Romanies, Homosexuals, Socialists and basically anybody who opposed or upset them, and that this later developed into a policy of committing genocide against these groups.

 

What difference does it make to anything today the precise number of millions of innocent people murdered? Don't you think that once the figures are up into the millions we can just accept that the Nazi holocaust was a monstrous act of barbarism and move on to trying to learn lessons from it rather than hiding behind arguments about figures?

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angle20 why are you so obsessed with quibbling over the number of people murdered by the Nazis?

 

It is an undeniable historical fact that the Nazi's had a policy of ethnically cleansing 'the Reich' of people they defined as undesirable, ie. Jews, Romanies, Homosexuals, Socialists and basically anybody who opposed or upset them, and that this later developed into a policy of committing genocide against these groups.

 

What difference does it make to anything today the precise number of millions of innocent people murdered? Don't you think that once the figures are up into the millions we can just accept that the Nazi holocaust was a monstrous act of barbarism and move on to trying to learn lessons from it rather than hiding behind arguments about figures?

 

I'd asked myself the same question about angle20's postings about this - and find it increasingly hard to avoid coming to the conclusion that she/he is of the same mindset as Mr Griffin, who famously referred to the 'Holohoax' and went on to say -

'' I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria.''

I wonder, angle20, if there's some other explanation for your apparent reluctance to accept that the Holocaust happened and that millions were murdered. There may of course be some perfectly reasonable rationale for your failure so far to acknowledge the enormity of the crime. I'm sure it would make interesting reading.

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Instead of quibbling over numbers (some quibble, some numbers, one might add) perhaps we ought to focus instead upon the uses to which the Holocaust is now put. Now if it is is used as a sobering and salutary lesson in the dangers of extreme ethnic intolerance and chauvinism, all well and good. However, as Norman Finkelstein has said in numerous articles, it is now also being used for other purposes which are far less noble, not least of which relate to support for Israel in the Israel-Palestine question, i.e. to give to Israel an unassailable high moral ground. Thus the chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust in the UK is none other than the ardent Zionist Greville Janner, who has been tireless in his defence of Israel but as intolerant as it is possible to be on the issue of Palestinian rights. Whatever lessons the Holocaust has to offer in relation to the dangers of ethnic intolerance, Janner and other Zionists appear to have a blind spot which prevents them from relating these lessons to, for example, the state-sponsored mass expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in 1948. Many Zionists are 'expulsions deniers'. So much for the lessons of history.

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Instead of quibbling over numbers (some quibble, some numbers, one might add) perhaps we ought to focus instead upon the uses to which the Holocaust is now put. Now if it is is used as a sobering and salutary lesson in the dangers of extreme ethnic intolerance and chauvinism, all well and good. However, as Norman Finkelstein has said in numerous articles, it is now also being used for other purposes which are far less noble, not least of which relate to support for Israel in the Israel-Palestine question, i.e. to give to Israel an unassailable high moral ground. Thus the chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust in the UK is none other than the ardent Zionist Greville Janner, who has been tireless in his defence of Israel but as intolerant as it is possible to be on the issue of Palestinian rights. Whatever lessons the Holocaust has to offer in relation to the dangers of ethnic intolerence, Janner and other Zionists appear to have a blind spot which prevents them from relating these lessons to, for example, the state-sponsored mass expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in 1948. Many Zionists are 'expulsions deniers'. So much for the lessons of history.

 

Interesting but it's a little more complex than the above.

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Instead of quibbling over numbers (some quibble, some numbers, one might add) perhaps we ought to focus instead upon the uses to which the Holocaust is now put. Now if it is is used as a sobering and salutary lesson in the dangers of extreme ethnic intolerance and chauvinism, all well and good. However, as Norman Finkelstein has said in numerous articles, it is now also being used for other purposes which are far less noble, not least of which relate to support for Israel in the Israel-Palestine question, i.e. to give to Israel an unassailable high moral ground. Thus the chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust in the UK is none other than the ardent Zionist Greville Janner, who has been tireless in his defence of Israel but as intolerant as it is possible to be on the issue of Palestinian rights. Whatever lessons the Holocaust has to offer in relation to the dangers of ethnic intolerance, Janner and other Zionists appear to have a blind spot which prevents them from relating these lessons to, for example, the state-sponsored mass expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in 1948. Many Zionists are 'expulsions deniers'. So much for the lessons of history.

An interesting post LordC which illuminates an aspect of the issue I was previousls unaware of. Ta.

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Interesting but it's a little more complex than the above.

In what way?

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Ex-Soviet sources themselves have to be treated with a great deal of caution. The Soviets tended to include in their estimates of deaths attributable to the Nazis many other deaths attributable to themselves - including for example Soviet citizens and military personnel swallowed up in Stalin's purges. At Nuremberg, they even attributed the deaths of the Polish officers killed in the Katyn massacre to the Nazis, whereas we now know that they were killed by Beria's secret police.

 

Incidentally, is it not ironic that there is a Holocaust museum in the US (in Washington) but no museum anywhere in the US which commemorates the genocide of the Native Americans.

 

I AGREE WITH YOU ,WELL DONE LORD :thumbsup:

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oh in that case, perhaps I ought to write a book-length work on the subject for you. Err, I've just remembered, someone (who is much better qualified than I) has already done it:

 

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=3

 

I didn't expect a book Lord :) Just that I find most things can't be explained away in a paragraph or even, in Finklestein's case, a book. It's not really a piece of in depth research though is it? It's more like a long magazine article.

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