The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

You hate that people can live a life in this way don't you. You can think of me in any which way you like but that's exactly how I voted.

No I don't hate you, I don't hate anyone, in order for me to do so they would have to deliberately set out to harm my family, friends or me.

You and your fellow Brexiteers have in fact done exactly that, but you didn't do it deliberately,and despite the damage caused to the country hating someone because they are ill informed, and base their decisions on unsupported belief as opposed to verifiable facts is taking it a bit far.

Cyclone described my view exactly in his post at 1085, using emotions to reach a decision on a subject that is going to effect everyone - not just yourself - is inconsiderate, selfish and indefensible.

The least that anyone should have done when asked to vote on such a life changing question was give it serious consideration and be able to provide a reasoned factual reply when asked why they voted that way.

Making up your mind using emotion only is what children do, when the result is serious adults use facts to justify their decisions.

Reasons, facts, justification, control.

Its grand being an adult isn't it!

Reasons, facts, justification, control.

 

Its grand being an adult isn't it!

How you live your life is entirely up to you, right up until your choices start to effect other people.

At which point if you are a reasonable, responsible and considerate person you understand that it's no longer just about you.

If your actions have an effect on others then it is not unreasonable for you to be asked to explain your thinking is it?

" It seemed like a good idea at the time ", isn't an acceptable intelligent answer.

Adults know when to have a laugh and relax, and when to be serious about something, you apparently don't.

You are coming across as a juvenile, uncaring, me. me .me individual in your posts.

Perhaps that isn't the way that you see yourself, but it's certainly the impression that you have been giving.

How you live your life is entirely up to you, right up until your choices start to effect other people.

 

At which point if you are a reasonable, responsible and considerate person you understand that it's no longer just about you.

 

If your actions have an effect on others then it is not unreasonable for you to be asked to explain your thinking is it?

 

" It seemed like a good idea at the time ", isn't an acceptable intelligent answer.

 

Adults know when to have a laugh and relax, and when to be serious about something, you apparently don't.

 

You are coming across as a juvenile, uncaring, me. me .me individual in your posts.

 

Perhaps that isn't the way that you see yourself, but it's certainly the impression that you have been giving.

Which is exactly how you come across yourself in this post, spitting the dummy out like a little kid because you can't have your own way against democracy.

Which is exactly how you come across yourself in this post, spitting the dummy out like a little kid because you can't have your own way against democracy.

You call pointing out a few facts ' spitting the dummy out like a little kid '?

You must be an absolute delight to try and have a rational debate with.

Let's see if you can actually do that shall we?

Look at the 4 facts in post 1066 that I gave as my reasons for voting remain and try to answer them using other facts which provide a counter argument.

If you can do that then fair enough, whilst I may disagree that your facts outweigh mine, and I may still believe that remaining would have been the best option, at least I will respect you for giving some in-depth thought to such an important matter.

Obviously if you can't then I can only assume that you voted on a subject which will effect all of us purely on a whim.

Oh and I do believe in democracy and it's a continual process, as Farage said it's not over yet, not by a long way.

Once the negotiations are concluded then the democratic thing to do would be to put the choices to the country.

Unlike last Junes vote this time people would be fully aware of what was on offer, and what the consequences of leaving or staying would entail.

I'm sure as a lover of democracy you couldn't disagree with allowing the people to make an informed decision once all the details are available to them, could you?

When does [part 5] start?

You call pointing out a few facts ' spitting the dummy out like a little kid '?

 

You must be an absolute delight to try and have a rational debate with.

 

Let's see if you can actually do that shall we?

 

Look at the 4 facts in post 1066 that I gave as my reasons for voting remain and try to answer them using other facts which provide a counter argument.

 

If you can do that then fair enough, whilst I may disagree that your facts outweigh mine, and I may still believe that remaining would have been the best option, at least I will respect you for giving some in-depth thought to such an important matter.

 

Obviously if you can't then I can only assume that you voted on a subject which will effect all of us purely on a whim.

 

Oh and I do believe in democracy and it's a continual process, as Farage said it's not over yet, not by a long way.

 

Once the negotiations are concluded then the democratic thing to do would be to put the choices to the country.

 

Unlike last Junes vote this time people would be fully aware of what was on offer, and what the consequences of leaving or staying would entail.

 

I'm sure as a lover of democracy you couldn't disagree with allowing the people to make an informed decision once all the details are available to them, could you?

1 And crumbling.

2 The UK government is at fault for immigration from outside the EU, immigration within the EU they have no control over, and would be even less with Schengen, which would have been the next step along with the euro.

3 The UK should never have been in conflict with the middle east, Argentina was another matter as it was British territory,

taking back control means the UK has control of it's borders and if the government doesn't get a grip they can be voted out.

4 They are more successful because we are one of their main customers hence the UK trade deficit with them,

the ball and chain of the EU has been the reason for not exploiting opportunities,

the world is the UK's oyster.

Now put the dummy back in.

How's the Irish economy by the way?

1 And crumbling.

 

2 The UK government is at fault for immigration from outside the EU, immigration within the EU they have no control over, and would be even less with Schengen, which would have been the next step along with the euro.

 

3 The UK should never have been in conflict with the middle east, Argentina was another matter as it was British territory,

taking back control means the UK has control of it's borders and if the government doesn't get a grip they can be voted out.

 

4 They are more successful because we are one of their main customers hence the UK trade deficit with them,

the ball and chain of the EU has been the reason for not exploiting opportunities,

the world is the UK's oyster.

 

Now put the dummy back in.

 

How's the Irish economy by the way?

Throughout all of this sorry tale it has never been the case that we have no control over EU immigration. No EU law has stopped us introducing identity cards for immigrant workers. In fact David Davis was one of the biggest campaigners against ID cards. No EU law stops us refusing entry to known criminals. No EU law can prevent us removing immigrants who cannot find work. No EU law stops us reforming our benefits system to make it less attractive to immigrants.

The Tories have actively sought to prevent that control. Like I said opposition to Id cards. They need a in-work generous benefits system to subsidise all workers, so they will never reform it. Businesses demand cheap immigrant labour and the Tories pulled out the stops to oblige.

Retep.

Thanks for the reply.

1, No it's not. only in the dreams of Brexiteers. It's more successful than both the UK and USA economies.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj75qbwtKLVAhUoL8AKHdOADYQQFggtMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbusiness%2F2017%2Fjun%2F08%2Fuk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league&usg=AFQjCNFQWEPHxsnvM4zDFVm7Ils4Z7s8ug

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj75qbwtKLVAhUoL8AKHdOADYQQFghHMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F0bbc026a-ea12-11e6-967b-c88452263daf%3Fmhq5j%3De1&usg=AFQjCNEHMgfqxbtVCjmxihiOs16RVpBrNg

2, The point is that the UK government was always responsible for over 50% of immigration and therefore using it as an argument to leave was nonsense.

3, The point about the conflicts is that waging war against various countries is as clear a statement of sovereignty as you could make. 'Taking back control' was another nonsensical argument.

4, Not one EU country has us as its main trading partner. those four countries are more successful than us because they produce more products that people want to buy than we do. How is that going to change any time soon?

Now stop making childish remarks.

Better than the UK economy since you ask, and has been for quite some time now.

Fastest growing economy in Europe and more successful than any part of the UK apart from the south east.

As J P Morgan has just spent $138,000,000 buying an office block in Dublin for 1,000 jobs it's transferring from London, that may change as well.

Retep.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

1, No it's not. only in the dreams of Brexiteers. It's more successful than both the UK and USA economies.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj75qbwtKLVAhUoL8AKHdOADYQQFggtMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fbusiness%2F2017%2Fjun%2F08%2Fuk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league&usg=AFQjCNFQWEPHxsnvM4zDFVm7Ils4Z7s8ug

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj75qbwtKLVAhUoL8AKHdOADYQQFghHMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F0bbc026a-ea12-11e6-967b-c88452263daf%3Fmhq5j%3De1&usg=AFQjCNEHMgfqxbtVCjmxihiOs16RVpBrNg

 

2, The point is that the UK government was always responsible for over 50% of immigration and therefore using it as an argument to leave was nonsense.

 

3, The point about the conflicts is that waging war against various countries is as clear a statement of sovereignty as you could make. 'Taking back control' was another nonsensical argument.

 

4, Not one EU country has us as its main trading partner. those four countries are more successful than us because they produce more products that people want to buy than we do. How is that going to change any time soon?

 

Now stop making childish remarks.

 

Better than the UK economy since you ask, and has been for quite some time now.

Fastest growing economy in Europe and more successful than any part of the UK apart from the south east.

 

As J P Morgan has just spent $138,000,000 buying an office block in Dublin for 1,000 jobs it's transferring from London, that may change as well.

1 Blinkered, https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?source=search_app&gfe_rd=cr&ei=HJjDU4uYJ-HR8gfmq4CQCw&gws_rd=ssl#q=crumbling+eu

I must have been reading the wrong paper,

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-economy-about-one-third-smaller-under-new-growth-indicator-1.3154818

 

I must have been reading the wrong paper,

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-economy-about-one-third-smaller-under-new-growth-indicator-1.3154818

you haven't been reading the wrong paper

the new measure of irish gdp, not eu gdp, strips out the activity of multinationals, which not surprisingly is important in ireland.

i imagine applying that same measure to the rest of the world, including the uk, would produce equally depressing results.

it also points out, what would happen should highly mobile multinationals decide to leave the uk, in whole or in part, as a result of brexit.

1 Blinkered, https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?source=search_app&gfe_rd=cr&ei=HJjDU4uYJ-HR8gfmq4CQCw&gws_rd=ssl#q=crumbling+eu

 

I must have been reading the wrong paper,

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-economy-about-one-third-smaller-under-new-growth-indicator-1.3154818

Andyofborg has explained your misapprehension, and as he points out, should multinationals - of which we have many - decide to pull out of the UK as a result of Brexit we would be in economic trouble, even more than we are already.

I have been visiting family in the Republic all my life and can remember exactly what it was like over sixty years ago.

The difference is startling.

All of my family members are doing well financially, and the friends that I have had from schooldays in Ireland are also doing well.

You see because Ireland is a Republic and relatively new as a country ( It's actually an older nation than England, but there was a bit of disruption along the way. ) it tends to have a slightly less 'them and us' set up than Britain.

Income is more evenly distributed around the place, and they do have one of the highest salary incomes per capita in the world.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjepuj25aLVAhVHBcAKHYx0CV0QFghHMAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgazettereview.com%2F2016%2F04%2Ftop-10-countries-highest-salaries%2F&usg=AFQjCNFR68O_yj_xvMLPpJkZ4BoVb0kE4Q

You need to stop worrying about them, and worry about the country which has decided to leave the wealthiest and most successful Trade Bloc in the world without a plan.

The country that the Japanese have felt so sorry for after seeing their total ineptitude, that they have offered their assistance in negotiations.

We are an object of pity thanks to Brexiteers inability to think things through and understand the difference between jingoistic myths and reality.