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Tony Benn answering questions on the Euro

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Do you think we should have a referendum on the Lisbon treaty?

 

Considering there were both right and left wing anti-Eu parties standing in the last European elections, I can't really see much need for a referendum. People have had their opportunity to speak on the issue.

 

The more important issue is how we go about influencing and campaigning for the EU to make it better represent our interests.

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agreed. and if we join the euro, wait until all the more poorer eastern european countries join and we have to prop up their economies. our economy is strong enough as it is, and President Blair daren't give us a referendum for fear of losing. Its a shame there'll be a referendum of another kind in 2 years time, one which hopefully Blair will not be winning.

 

 

t020,yes I think Blair is badly schizophrenic,no alleged Christian would have helped plan Shock and Awe.

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Regardless of whether your referring to the Lisbon Treaty, or The Belly's meandering question asking what will happen when Turkey joins the Multicultural European Superstate, I've been invited to guess, not study.

 

If I studied it I wouldn't be guessing, now would I?

 

However, I have successfully guessed the answers to questions on University Challenge before they were asked, in front of witnesses, so I believe my guesses are generally better than those of other people.

 

It's the art of not-knowing. It takes a lifetime to master, but it's worth it.

 

So you don't actually have a clue what you are talking about then? I am not asking you to guess now, I am asking you what you think the positives of joining a federal superstate are and losing control of your own Country at the same time?

 

You are so big headed and enlightened, so enlighten me.

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Considering there were both right and left wing anti-Eu parties standing in the last European elections, I can't really see much need for a referendum. People have had their opportunity to speak on the issue.

 

The more important issue is how we go about influencing and campaigning for the EU to make it better represent our interests.

 

As i sad to plekhanov in another thread-General elections in this country are a two horse race between Labour and the Conservatives, they get the largest share of the vote, and most people who vote for them are voting for them on the traditional issues that they'v always voted for them for.

But because they are both basically Europhyle, Europhyles make out that merely voting in a Labour or a Conservative government is in itself a 'yes' vote to the Lisbon treaty!!

 

Holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty is 'having an opportunity to speak on it', NOT Gordon Brown and his cabinet, and David Cameron and his shadow cabinet sitting round a table saying-'most people who bother to vote, vote for us, and were all for the Lisbon treaty, so we'l just take it as read that our voters are too, so no need for a referendum'

 

That seems to be the logic :loopy:

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As i sad to plekhanov in another thread-General elections in this country are a two horse race between Labour and the Conservatives, they get the largest share of the vote, and most people who vote for them are voting for them on the traditional issues that they'v always voted for them for.

But because they are both basically Europhyle, Europhyles make out that merely voting in a Labour or a Conservative government is in itself a 'yes' vote to the Lisbon treaty!!

 

Holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty is 'having an opportunity to speak on it', NOT Gordon Brown and his cabinet, and David Cameron and his shadow cabinet sitting round a table saying-'most people who bother to vote, vote for us, and were all for the Lisbon treaty, so we'l just take it as read that our voters are too, so no need for a referendum'

 

That seems to be the logic :loopy:

 

I was talking about the EU elections, not a general election.

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Considering there were both right and left wing anti-Eu parties standing in the last European elections, I can't really see much need for a referendum. People have had their opportunity to speak on the issue.

 

The more important issue is how we go about influencing and campaigning for the EU to make it better represent our interests.

 

You sound just like Labour. They promised us a vote, we elected them on that basis and the reason they didn't give it to us was because they knew we would say no. We, the people have not had an opportunity to speak on the issue as you put it as we were denied a vote by the people who work for us, supposedly.

 

We shouldn't be thinking along the lines of influencing or getting better rights from the EU at all, if we had any sense, we would just have a free trade agreement in place just like Norway who do very well out of it indeed and make our own laws and decide for ourselves who is able to settle here on this land, its not up to unelected bureaucrats to do that for us from a land afar.

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So you don't actually have a clue what you are talking about then? I am not asking you to guess now, I am asking you what you think the positives of joining a federal superstate are and losing control of your own Country at the same time?

 

You are so big headed and enlightened, so enlighten me.

 

I'm not the slightest bit interested, as it's all part of the inevitable and gradual death of the nation state, I merely wished to point out that your assertion:

 

"your guess is as good as mine"

 

is incorrect.

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The EU has controlled our immigration since 1997

The Amsterdam Treaty handed complete control of our immigration to the EU. The EU increased the numbers of immigrants from 30,000 a year to 200,000 a year. That's why house prices had been screaming up. Politicians and huge corporations like immigration-with thousands of immigrants available on low pay, corporations can impose the minimum wage on millions. Politicians then lie that they can't get British workers to do dirty jobs. The truth is they won't offer a decent wage to compensate for unpleasant work, and instead use immigrants at £5-odd an hour.

 

Michael Howard was lying on the 24th January 2005 when he said he'd fix immigration-if he had become Prime Minister, he'd have had no control over it whatsoever.

 

Immigration hurts our existing immigrants first-new immigrants move into their areas, decreasing the wages and increasing the pressure on housing.

Edited by Aim4

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Aside from the deception element of that, which is a a fabrication

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet#A_European_ideal

 

I can't see any real problem with a united States of Europe. Indeed it has a lot going for it. It hasn't done our former colony the other side of the Atlantic much harm.

 

Where there is an issue with the EU is in the EU's anti-worker agenda best exemplified by examples like the rulings on Viking, Laval and its directives encouraging privatisations.

 

http://www.etuc.org/a/4627?var_recherche=viking

 

Here's what they thought of it,

 

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/712

 

"It is worth recalling that what is now known as the European Union was originally sold to the unsuspecting peoples of Europe as a “Common Market” that would not threaten the independence of the member nations. This decades-long transformation from a supposed free-trade agreement to a supranational government, a process still underway, was by design. But the architects of a new European order had to mask their subversive schemes in order to succeed. As Christopher Booker and Richard North wrote in their recent book The Great Deception, from the beginning EU founder Jean Monnet “used a front-man to preside over the negotiations — Belgian politician Paul Henri-Spaak, one of his closest allies, who ensured that all mentions of political union were suppressed, selling the treaty to the world as no more than a deal to promote trade and prosperity.” Booker and North explained that the subterfuge was backed and financed behind the scenes by the U.S. government, which had Undersecretary of State George Ball lobby the British prime minister in the early 1960s to retain sovereignty-destroying precedents in pending European Union agreements. Ball told then-British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan “that the Rome treaty [of 1957] was not merely a static document but a process leading towards political unification.”

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I'm not the slightest bit interested, as it's all part of the inevitable and gradual death of the nation state, I merely wished to point out that your assertion:

 

"your guess is as good as mine"

 

is incorrect.

 

?????? Where did I say "your guess is as good as mine?" If you are not interested in a subject which you obviously know nothing about, why do you enter it?

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?????? Where did I say "your guess is as good as mine?"

Here

... has got us to date so far and when Blair gives the nod to Turkey, well? your guess is as good as mine.

If you are not interested in a subject which you obviously know nothing about, why do you enter it?

Because I felt like it.

 

Good grief, am I now restricted to posting only on topics I have an interest in?

 

By you?

 

Thought not.

 

Incidentally, do you think the Czech Republic will ratify, or will their Supreme Court decide against it?

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