We're moving to Sheffield in the summer and looking for a good area to bring up a family. We can't afford the really good areas, and sort of want to avoid the suburburn cliches if poss. Is Carter Knowle Road a nice place to live?

Originally posted by ginsberg
We're moving to Sheffield in the summer and looking for a good area to bring up a family. We can't afford the really good areas, and sort of want to avoid the suburburn cliches if poss. Is Carter Knowle Road a nice place to live?

Its where a sceane in the Full Monty was filmed. But in an ok area of the city.

I grew up round there - Montrose Road, just off Carterknowle to be precise. I always loved it. Not been back for years though. We used to have acres of Abbeydale Grange playing fields to play on but I bet they've mostly been built on now. (I may be wrong but as I live in Liverpool, I can't really pop back to check!)

Originally posted by ginsberg
We're moving to Sheffield in the summer and looking for a good area to bring up a family. We can't afford the really good areas, and sort of want to avoid the suburburn cliches if poss. Is Carter Knowle Road a nice place to live?


Make sure you get the top end, as near to Ecclesall Rd South as possible, and you will find its quite nice. I'd avoid the lower end near Abbeydale Rd if I were you. It is quite a big road. I think you'd be in catchment for Abbeydale Grange school too, which isn't a very good school. If you're far enough up you might be in catchment for High Storrs, which is a much better school. I'm not sure of the exact catchment areas though.

I disagree with the last post to some extent. Obviously the Ecclesall Rd south end is the better bet, but if that's too expensive then I'd still heartily recommend the Abbeydale Road end.

high storrs is a really crap school, went there myself but left to go to a specialist music school in manchester. I know a few people who go and have been to abbeydale school who really love it there. no complaints, whereas at high storrs alot of ppl hated it and the teachers were crap. Birkdale is a v good school if you can afford for your kids to go there, nice area to live too.
I live just off abbeydale road and i love it, great access to town etc pretty friendly aswell.
Linds
x

Originally posted by mimicraze
high storrs is a really crap school, went there myself but left to go to a specialist music school in manchester. I know a few people who go and have been to abbeydale school who really love it there. no complaints, whereas at high storrs alot of ppl hated it and the teachers were crap. Birkdale is a v good school if you can afford for your kids to go there, nice area to live too.
I live just off abbeydale road and i love it, great access to town etc pretty friendly aswell.
Linds
x


In terms of results (not your mates "comments"), High Storrs is a far superior school to Abbeydale Grange. Silverdale is better still (the best state school in Sheffield). As a measure, national average GCSE passes were last year 52.9%. This compares to:

High Storrs 65%
Abbeydale Grange 29% (!)
Silverdale 85%


I hope this rather more objective approach is more helpful than mimicrazes "my mates didnt like it" offering.

*Source - upmystreet.com, drawn from LEA statistics.

t020, you seem to be in the know. Silverdale do accept some outside of catchment students at the school dont they?

A guy who lived at Heeley went to Silverdale and was in the missus's class!

Originally posted by DaBouncer
t020, you seem to be in the know. Silverdale do accept some outside of catchment students at the school dont they?

A guy who lived at Heeley went to Silverdale and was in the missus's class!

Yes it is required to let a certain amount in. High Storrs lets even more non-catchments in. Safer to live within catchment IMO though, and I definitely would avoid Abbeydale Grange at all costs.

Originally posted by t020
Yes it is required to let a certain amount in. High Storrs lets even more non-catchments in. Safer to live within catchment IMO though, and I definitely would avoid Abbeydale Grange at all costs.

I went to High Storrs and live just around the corner (finished 1998 ). I loved my time at the school and it certainly has a good reputation.

My mum went to Abbeydale Grange and went there to do some supply teaching a few years ago. She could hardly believe how much it had deteriorated. There's a relatively high proportion of kids that have been excluded from other Sheffield schools that form something of a disruptive element.

It's great to get so much feedback. I'm not too concerned about high schools yet, my kids being young at the moment. I've done my research and know Silverdale is the top state school, but having looked at how a good catchment area whacks up house prices, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better in the long run to live somewhere cheaper and pay school fees!
I am so excited about moving to Sheffield, from looking at this site, everyone seems so open and friendly. I currently live in a tiny Scottish village and it's hell. The natives are not friendly! All I want to be sure of is that I'm moving to a neighbourhood where my neighbours won't threaten to beat me up if I accidentally catch their eye in the street (which curently happens in this 20-house village).

Originally posted by t020
In terms of results (not your mates "comments"), High Storrs is a far superior school to Abbeydale Grange. Silverdale is better still (the best state school in Sheffield). As a measure, national average GCSE passes were last year 52.9%.

This is right to a certain extent. Everyone knows that Silverdale is, on paper, the state school at the top of the tree in Sheffield.

It's worth pointing out that these things ebb and flow - Myers Grove, for example, was a good school 20 years ago from what people have told me, but now is less well-regarded. Ditto for Abbeydale Grange.

(Bradfield, incidentally, is as good as any in the south-west - it trounced High Storrs in the last league tables to end up third after Silverdale and Tapton. Bet that wiped the smug smiles off a few faces in the SW!)

Seriously, though, all this aside you need to get a proper feel for a school. The current obsession with league-tables is divisive and is driving some parents to behaviour bordering on the obsessive (swapping council-tax bills with parents, etc.)

You need to know about a school's ethos, its "feel", the way the pupils behave and their respect (or lack of it) for teachers, etc. This is why anecdotal evidence - the "my mate went there" side - should not be dismissed out of hand.

A friend who teaches at Silverdale tells me that the pupils have no respect for her because, as the children of lawyers, doctors and accountants, they don't hold teaching in very high esteem. I can well believe this.

Fir Vale is near the bottom of the league tables but is the best in Sheffield for "value added" - a measure of how much difference the school actually makes. I don't know what Silverdale's VA is but I imagine it's pretty small - the pupils come, in the main, from affluent (and pushy) middle-class homes and many of them will get a handful of A and A* grades even if the teaching is poor, as they have the emotional and financial support from their parents (access to books and Internet, private tuition, etc.)

I was at Abbeydale Grange 20-25 years ago and I always felt it was pretty good. Though to all intents and purposes it was a completely different school to the one that now goes under that name.

It had 1500 kids there, covered 3 massive buildings and had vast playing fields that stretched well up Carterknowle Road and right down to Millhouses.

Now I believe the whole of Abbeydale Grange is housed in what we used to call 'Lower School'.

I only mention this because it demonstrates how difficult it can be to judge schools on past reputation, and how these things fluctuate.

And for what it's worth, I would much prefer to live down the bottom half of Carterknowle Road because I much prefer the houses down that end. This is personal preference, obviously.

Oh, just going back to schools, both Holt House Infants and Carterknowle Junior are very close by.

Better to live at the bottom then you don't have to walk up the steep road.

league tables might be good for high storrs but IMO the kids happiness is more important.
anyway, hope you have a smooth move ginsberg :)
mimi
x

Originally posted by DannyBoy


You need to know about a school's ethos, its "feel", the way the pupils behave and their respect (or lack of it) for teachers, etc. This is why anecdotal evidence - the "my mate went there" side - should not be dismissed out of hand.



I agree totally but do find that a good ethos with promotion of self respect and discipline is more likely to be found in schools higher up the league tables.

One of the best indicators of a school (primitive as it sounds) is to stand outside the gates and hometime and observe the behaviour of those exiting. It has never failed me yet.

Originally posted by DannyBoy


Fir Vale is near the bottom of the league tables but is the best in Sheffield for "value added" - a measure of how much difference the school actually makes. I don't know what Silverdale's VA is but I imagine it's pretty small


Silverdale was top of the 'traditional' league table, AND the value added table for last year. I saw the article in the Star earlier this year when the league tables were published.

As someone who has lived in Ecclesall (a couple of streets along Ecclesall Rd South from the top of Carterknowle Road) and has also lived near the bottom of Carterknowle Road, I would recommend the Abbeydale Road end.

Originally posted by Mo
I agree totally but do find that a good ethos with promotion of self respect and discipline is more likely to be found in schools higher up the league tables.

One of the best indicators of a school (primitive as it sounds) is to stand outside the gates and hometime and observe the behaviour of those exiting. It has never failed me yet.

I agree with the second statement, but the first maybe needs re-examining.

My friend who lives in Crookes is often complaining about the behaviour of the schoolchildren outside her house, which includes spitting, swearing, general rowdiness and swinging on her gate. Oh - did I mention these are kids from supposedly-wonderful Tapton? A school that people will move heaven & earth and mortgage themselves to the hilt to get into?

Respect and discipline come from the top down. If a school appears to promote and foster this culture well, then aspirational middle-class people will be happy to send their children there. It's not necessarily the case that this will be found high up the league tables.

I have a wife and many friends who are teachers, and I know that in "good" schools you can get a different kind of disrespect, borne of arrogance and smugness.

Originally posted by t020
Silverdale was top of the 'traditional' league table, AND the value added table for last year. I saw the article in the Star earlier this year when the league tables were published.

Not any more. According to the latest league table figures (published on the BBC News Education website) Silverdale had a VA score of 101.8, as compared to 108 for Fir Vale and 104 for Abbeydale Grange.

Originally posted by DannyBoy

Fir Vale is near the bottom of the league tables but is the best in Sheffield for "value added" - a measure of how much difference the school actually makes. I don't know what Silverdale's VA is but I imagine it's pretty small - the pupils come, in the main, from affluent (and pushy) middle-class homes and many of them will get a handful of A and A* grades even if the teaching is poor, as they have the emotional and financial support from their parents (access to books and Internet, private tuition, etc.)

It seems to me that a school achieving better results will have a lower VA score than the poorest achieving schools. If a school has only say 20 pupils meeting the national minimum required in terms of exam passes then an extra 5 passes give a 25% increase in the pass rate whereas a higher achieving school has far less scope for improvement.

Originally posted by Patchy
As someone who has lived in Ecclesall (a couple of streets along Ecclesall Rd South from the top of Carterknowle Road) and has also lived near the bottom of Carterknowle Road, I would recommend the Abbeydale Road end.

Any particular reason? e.g. my reason for preferring the Ecclesall end of Carter Knowle Rd is because Abbeydale Rd is a dump with litter everywhere and take away after take away, as well as cheap, awful looking shops. This doesn't change until you get on to Abbeydale Rd South. Thats my opinion anyway.

As for this "value added" thing - I'd prefer to send my (theoretical) kids to a school achieving top results than to some school with a higher "value added" score, which is absolutely meaningless really. If you can afford to be in catchment for a top school or to go private - do it. Don't put your kids through a school on the basis of "value added" scores as this is just a meaningless measure to be more PC towards the inner city comps.

Originally posted by t020
As for this "value added" thing - I'd prefer to send my (theoretical) kids to a school achieving top results than to some school with a higher "value added" score, which is absolutely meaningless really. If you can afford to be in catchment for a top school or to go private - do it. Don't put your kids through a school on the basis of "value added" scores as this is just a meaningless measure to be more PC towards the inner city comps.

But the teachers I know - all of whom are also parents - set far more store by Value Added than by the ordinary league tables on their own.

I will reiterate - school league tables are divisive, misleading and self-perpetuating. Once you have children, your first thought may be "best catchment, best catchment". After some reflection, you start to realise it is a little more complex than that.

To bring this thread right back on topic (!) I've always liked the look of Carter Knowle Road. We have friends who live down the "bottom" end and have a fantastic house - and life. They were lucky enough to buy their house 20 years ago and so it is now worth 10 times what it was.

Originally posted by t020
Abbeydale Rd is a dump with litter everywhere and take away after take away, as well as cheap, awful looking shops. This doesn't change until you get on to Abbeydale Rd South. Thats my opinion anyway.

Well I guess you are entitled to your opinion, although I can't say I agree with you on that one!

Originally posted by ginsberg
We're moving to Sheffield in the summer and looking for a good area to bring up a family. We can't afford the really good areas, and sort of want to avoid the suburburn cliches if poss. Is Carter Knowle Road a nice place to live?

I've lived in a couple of different houses on Carterknowle Road in the last 10 years (Abbeydale Road end) and really enjoyed living around there. It's got plenty of facilities (shops, gyms etc) within easy walking distance, it's very easy to get into the city on public transport and despite being a fairly busy road I found it a peaceful place to live.

Living at the top end would be nice too (though probably more expensive), but I'd say avoid living in the middle if you don't have a car! Mucho hiking up hills!

Carterknowle has a light and airy feel to it.
Speed bumps are a pain though

Originally posted by t020
Silverdale is better still (the best state school in Sheffield). .

It may be for GCSEs but NOT for A Levels. That's Notre Dame. 2nd best at A Levels is Tapton. Then Silverdale in 3rd place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/03/school_tables/secondary_schools/html/373_alevel_lea.stm

So if Silverdale is best at GCSEs and Notre Dame best at A Levels, with Notre Dame second best at GCSEs and Silverdale third best at A Levels, then I would say Notre Dame wins the title best state school in Sheffield.

AND: being a Catholic school, the catchment is larger.

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If Henri IV of France said it was worth becoming Catholic for the sake of the crown ("Paris is worth a mass"), then surely the same applies to good education.
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Not just the school thats gonna make your kids well rounded and well educated.

I didn't go to a particularly great school - it was Earl Marshal, now more commonly known as Fir Vale.

I left the school with 7 A-C GCSES (back in 96'). I got a place in High Storrs School (6th Form) which I found to be a mechanical, overpowering, and almost military feel towards teaching.

Alot of the friends I made there were veterans of the school coming up through the years, but I decided to leave as i didn't like the teaching methods, and carry my education on at College. Couple of years down the line, I saw many of those same people in the Colleges aswell, retaking exams.

I applied to universities around the country. Of the 6 I chose 5 firmly accepted. (Leeds Uni, Edinburgh, Heriott Watt Edinburgh, Sheffield Uni, Nottingham Uni). In all cases I applied to courses along the lines of Architecture, and Civil Engineering.

In the time between I found a much better suited course here in Sheffield, under my nose as it were. I chose that and got accepted.

Thing I have realised though my time in the education system, alot of what you do, and where you get depends on how savvy you are and how you can you can talk at interviews etc. You can have straight A-Grades throughout your life, but if you can't talk the talk you are relying purely on the paper and not enough on your own charm and wit - which isn't necessarily a good thing.

1M&HB

Carterknowle is a great place to live. Big houses for not that much money for the west of the city. Close to town, quiet, alright parking. Great walks to Brinciffe edge, Millhouses park and Ecclesall woods. Walking distance to Tesco and Sainsbury's, three big gyms. Really quick to get to the Peak District. Good local shops down Abbeydale road with a Baker, fantastic fruit shop, that is cheaper than the supermarket and for some reason loads of DIY shops. Really quick access to the motorway via Chesterfield. Not the greatest night life but I don’t really want to have loads of drunk people shouting in the street and that’s what Taxi’s are for anyway. I suppose you could also count Marko at Milano’s and Millhouses café as two of the best places to eat in the city.

Schools. Everybody around here says Holthouse and Carterknowle junior are great. If you have bought your kids up to work then Abbeydale Grange is really small so pupils can get a lot of attention if they want it. It has also got funding to be an Arts and Media school so it should either get better or close because it is too small. Then what will happen? I am afraid what ever anyone says it is the parent that is most responsible for the child’s achievements, not the school

The bottom of Carterknowle road is not dirty, there are boarded up shops around the bottom of the Netheredge bit, but not around Caterknowle. It is also not Ecclesall road, which I am quite happy about, see above about drunk people. There is also a nice parade of shops in the middle of Carterknowle road with a butchers, veg shop extra, and at the top on Ecclesall road a fish mongers and Roses bakers.

There were also plans to build the tram up the railway line here. I am not sure what is happening with that.

Negatives: People pulling out their perfectly sound wooden widows that have lasted 100 years and could last 100 more with rubbish UPVC ones are replaced after an average of 18, look rough and will never pay for themselves. Why??

As we're on the subject of achievement at Sheffield schools.

I would just like to boast that my son, council estate dweller, left Parkwood High, S5, with 14 GCSEs....12 A-Cs. Believe me, he worked for them.

Anybody know what the average pass rate was for the so-called 'top' schools in Sheffield?

Hi, lived on Montrose Road for over ten years and would still be there if I had been happy for the kids to go to Abbeydale Grange. For what its worth I believe the catchment area boundary is currently about Glenorchy road, however they do keep shifting them.

As you will have gathered the road changes and its inhabitants change as you head up the hill towards Ecclesall. Being someone who lived somewhere in the middle I really enjoyed the location and the contrast between the two ends of the road. Handy for town, great local shops and church, decent schools and great neighbours. IMO a great area to bring up kids.

good luck

The % of pupils achieving 5+ A* to C grades Sheffield is 44.7%.
This is 9% below the national figure.
However since 2002 Sheffield has been closing the gap on this measure and Sheffield does do better than the average of other 'core cities' at GCSE.

Sheffield still has 6.8% of pupils leaving school with no qualifications.

GCSE performance though is not the real issue in Sheffield I feel, our Value Added scores are good. The real problem at the moment is the early years and the primary sector. Our kids are coming into secondary education on average well below the lower quartile nationally, this means that we have a huge task to close the gap through the secondary sector. Hence VA is good but performance is not so good.

I work in this field and if I was a parent at the moment I would feel it is more important to secure good nursery and primary education in Sheffield because it is a lot harder to find. Some secondary schools do have problems but most are doing really well to turn around the pupils achievement levels from KS2 to GCSE.

I used to live on the bottom half of Carterknowle for quite a while. I still consider it home, despite living on the other side of town. You don't really get many problems round there, although the fireworks used to be bad as they seemed to be let off all year round. The last two years have been a lot calmer and is fairly quiet.

I went to Abbeydale Grange along with my Sister. I'd avoid it if you can, it was crap then (12 years ago) and is even worse now.

Parking can be bad on the bottom half right up to the middle as not many people have drives. Especiallly around Abbeydale school as there is a football school on the top field which can cause a bit of traffic - and around Carterknowle School in the day from the teachers and parents.

I would love to live there again. Happy house hunting.

Update
We've been living in Carter Knowle for 6 months now and it's great. The traffic is noisy. There are fireworks more often than I could have imagined. But the people are interesting, there's a doctor, dentist, swimming pool, supermarket all within a mile. After living in rural Scotland miles form anywhere, it is brilliant. Friendly and convenient. As for schools, my son's infant school is excellent. I've already met the head of the junior school he'll be attending next year and I was impressed by the sheer humanity of the man. Yes, I am worried about senior schools, but that's 5 years off yet...we may be back in Scotland then chasing work like birds following the fishing fleet or local schools may have improved...

re the head master of your childs next school - initials PH by any chance??? If so fully agree with you - what a lovely man that is!:clap:

you'll never be stuck for a taxi at the bottom of Carterknowle Rd

A lot of kids from the Abbeydale Road end of Carter Knowle Road go to King Ecgbert School up in Dore.

It's on the 75 bus route and there should be little trouble gaining entry if you appeal against Abbeydale Grange.

Also conveniently on Carterknowle road and walking distance is the entrance to bannerdale division of sheffield college - if you fancy doing art or languages evening classes !