Would anyone agree with the proposed congestion charges in Sheffield? how much would it cost? any charge will be added to what we already pay for our food and goods! Will it be in addition to car park charges, or will they be abolished? It should only be one charge not both.

Is it legal? someone rang the radio station yesterday and said it would be breaching a citizens rights to be denied access to our city centres under the terms of the "Magna carter" is this true and if so what legal challenge can we launch to stop it? does the motorist pay enough already?

I think he or she does, what with road tax, insurance, speed cameras, purchase tax, expensive maintenance, car parks, tyres, upgrading your car every three years, petrol, we are already paying through the nose for the convenience of owning and running a car, it is time to say, enough is enough!!!

NO Chance! I for one wouldn't accept or want Congestion charges in Sheffield! Not yet anyway! Wait for 2 or 3 years until we see how London copes!

This government isn't happy unless it's ripping of it's public!

I hope the guy who phones the radio station is right and that it is against human rights!

If such charges are brought in here then Sheffield can put the shutters up! Parking in Sheffield is already a total rip off when compared to other towns locally.

I am all far getting people out of cars and onto public transport but there isn't a public transport system to speak of. Perhaps if charges were ploughed back into the bus system this idea might be more acceptable. As it is it will just mean less people will shop in Sheffield and will go instead to Meadowhall where parking is free. It might work in towns with a captive audience but it wouldn't work here.

Seconded Mo!

Sheffield doesn't have a large city centre compared to other cities. Congestion charging like this wouldn't be feasible!

If they brought it in, you can bet your bottom $ that Meadowhall would benefit and the City Centre would become desolate!

Im a member of Ponds Forge, if congestion charges come into place, it would become too expensive to re-new my membership.

In last night's Star Jan Wilson stated that congestion charges would not be brought into Sheffield.

Whether or not you're inclined to believe her is up to you. I will retain my copy of the newspaper to remind the Labour Group should there be any sign of a u-turn.

As for the price of parking, it's cheaper to park for 3 hours than for my wife and I to get the bus into town. The price of parking should be raised to make it more economical to use public transport.

Originally posted by "maxt"


As for the price of parking, it's cheaper to park for 3 hours than for my wife and I to get the bus into town. The price of parking should be raised to make it more economical to use public transport.
I don't agree one bit!

The price of public transport should be lowered to make it more economical to use public transport!

Originally posted by "maxt"

In last night's Star Jan Wilson stated that congestion charges would not be brought into Sheffield.

Whether or not you're inclined to believe her is up to you. I will retain my copy of the newspaper to remind the Labour Group should there be any sign of a u-turn.

As for the price of parking, it's cheaper to park for 3 hours than for my wife and I to get the bus into town. The price of parking should be raised to make it more economical to use public transport.

Depends where is Sheffield you live. In some areas in the SE of Sheff the bus service is so poor that it might as well not exist.

Public transport was wrecked when it was de-regulated. A council owned and run system used to mean that popular routes could subsidise routes that were not used as much. the free for all that exists now means that if it doesn't make so much money it is axed. :evil:

If congestion charging does get implemented then that will be the end for Sheffield City Centre. I seldom go there these days but would NEVER go there if it was introduced.

congestion charge? i already pay it - its called road tax, though by the looks of things, very LITTLE gets spent on the actual road surfaces, but instead, too much on road humps and traffic islands to "calm" traffic, aka. cause long jams. The road system in Sheffield is summed up best as being a JOKE.

I remember an out of towner friend of mine calling Sheffield he City of Traffic Lights!!!

Saddle the city centre with congestion charging and the owners of Meadowhall will rub their hands in anticipation. To get people out of their cars we need a cheap, efficient, subsidised bus service, like the one we had before de-regulation. private bus companies are in it to make a profit, which, at the moment, they are extracting for those who can least afford to pay.

The only winners for congestion charging in Sheffield would be Meadowhall, Rotherham and possibly Barnsley. Sheffield town centre is a nightmare to drive around and parking is sooooo expensive. Hopefully future planners will be studying Sheffield as part of their university courses on how NOT to do it.

Radical solution. No congestion charging and no road tax. Put all the taxes on fuel. Result, no 4x4s in the middle of town. Problem solved.

I like that solution - it's been suggested many times, but we are talking here of a government that replaced a very simple tax break with an over-complex, over-bureaucratic, expensive to administer, and badly organised children's tax credit, that least helps those who really need it.

Simplicity is not something, this (or any previous governments) have ever tried.

The problem is that too many people need to get from A to B. There should be less of a requirement for people to travel huge distances to work. This was always going to be one of the consequences of sticking a residential area in one place and a commercial one somewhere completely different.

I accept its a bad idea to stick industrial works near where people live, but there should be a lot more housing near the city center for those who would be very happy to live neaar work - like me. I dont have a car right now and live a comfortable life without it laughing at those stuck in traffic as I walk home, unless its raining which is when I curse them under my breath!

I know one day the place I live will not be good enough because I'll want a family and a garden and then Ill have to get a car to get about. If I lived in Spain it wouldn't be like that however. There are relatively few areas of any spanish town where there are not residents close by. They are a lot more integrated and as a result their usually narrow roads cope with a lot less traffic than ours have to.

Until this fundamental problem is solved, or public transport becomes 10 times more frequent and half the price we will all suffer one way or the other.

Surely theres not enough congestion in sheffield to start charging people? Traffic can be quite bad at times round eccy/abbeydale road but its never THAT bad compared to other places. Having just paid over £60 for 6 months road tax, it makes me wonder where the money goes - There is very rarely anyone actually working where roadworks are set up. Ive tried trains and they were ok for a while but Arriva started to get very unreliable, often turning up early and sodding off just as i got there, or they were very late. I tried buses but busdrivers are usually very rude and the buses are very crammed due to the managers not realising which routes are used by most people - how annoying is it being squashed against the window of a single decker and seeing a massive double decker saunter past with 3 people on?

I agree about there not being much congestion in Sheffield. It takes me 25 minutes to get from Walkley to Rotherham, a distance of 13 miles. Admittedly, I get to work for 8 am but isn't that the issue? Too many people all try to travel to work at the same time. If employers brought in flexible working allowing the workforce to stagger their working day this may go some way towards relieving the pressure at the so called rush hour (who thought up that misnomer?).

How about changing the school day to start at 10 am? That would mean all those SUVs and 4*4s could stay at home while commuters get to work.

PS See my previous posting about Jan Wilson pledging no congestion charging for Sheffield as some people seem to have jumped in half way through this thread.

I plead guilty to being a motorist. If I have to travel into or across town, my first instinct is to use my car. Until that mindset is broken, maybe by making public transport free, clean, safe and above all, convenient, I will probably carry on using my car, dismissing the extra expense as the price I have to pay. A bit like smokers when Gordon puts 10p on a packet of cigarettes. How many other people feel the same?

I contacted a member of Sheffield City Council a few months ago conserning the possibility of a congestion charge being set up in Sheffield. The reply i received was that there was no chance. However from reading the messages posted in this forum there appears to have been a change of heart! Would anyone be able to tell me what is going on as i am a student in London studying congestion charging in the UK. I am intending to carry out research in Sheffield over the summer but this was to be with the intention that no charge was likely!

There is not going to be a congestion charge in Sheffield.

This debate is about congestion charges in general.

There was something in the paper today about monitoring all motorists by sattelite and charging people to use their cars at peak times. That would include school run times. Where do people stand on the school run? Is it a necessary evil of modern life, or could we do without it?

Originally posted by "Jess"

There was something in the paper today about monitoring all motorists by sattelite and charging people to use their cars at peak times. That would include school run times. Where do people stand on the school run? Is it a necessary evil of modern life, or could we do without it?

We already pay to use cars - road tax, insurance, tax on petrol.
Therefore people have the right to use their cars when they like, and this includes at peak times, and if parents want to take their children to school in the car then thats their choice. If the government concentrated less on schemes designed to punish the motorist and more on schemes to aid public transport then maybe motorists would have an effective alternative to using their cars. Im not advocating re-nationalisation, but I do think that the government should put in place controls to ensure that private companies operating buses and trains run them effectively and to benefit the passenger, not just their profits. Until public transport is more effective and reliable, motorists will always opt to use their own form of transport.

Originally posted by "maxt"

I agree about there not being much congestion in Sheffield. It takes me 25 minutes to get from Walkley to Rotherham, a distance of 13 miles. Admittedly, I get to work for 8 am but isn't that the issue? Too many people all try to travel to work at the same time. If employers brought in flexible working allowing the workforce to stagger their working day this may go some way towards relieving the pressure at the so called rush hour (who thought up that misnomer?).

How about changing the school day to start at 10 am? That would mean all those SUVs and 4*4s could stay at home while commuters get to work.

PS See my previous posting about Jan Wilson pledging no congestion charging for Sheffield as some people seem to have jumped in half way through this thread.

I argee, the time has alot to do with it. With you starting at 8am you avoid the busy rush hour. Have you tried trying to get to work for 9am and see how much longer it takes? It sometimes takes me 40 mins to 1 hour to travel 6 miles across town at between 8-9am. The same as between 5-6pm going in the opposite direction. Congestion charging is not in the immediate plans but if it turns out to be successful in London who knows what could happen, especially as the number of cars on the road is increasing. Bringing those flexi working hours is not feasible to some employers who need people in at set times.

Won't be long now:

"The response of the Sheffield city region - which also includes Barnsley, Bassetlaw, Bolsover, Doncaster, Chesterfield, and Rotherham - stresses it does not yet have any road charging plans but goes on to welcome the Government’s blueprint.

It states: "While the city region does not, as yet, have any specific proposals to introduce road user charging, it nonetheless welcomes the steps the Government have taken to simplify the process and devolve more responsibility to local authorities."
"

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Easier-route-for-council-road.3499078.jp

I don't think you can properly evaluate whether Sheffield needs congestion charging or not anyway.

reason - there are so many road works being carried out throughout the city at the same time, all lasting months if not years, that you're never getting a true reflection of the congestion on the cities roads.

If tomorrow they fully opened the parkway, fully opened the M1 between J31 and J33, fully opened the new Northern ring-road, and fully opened the wicker, you mind find that we could all move around the city rather nicely.

Bump - I'm doing my coursework on this at the moment,
I know there has not been much activitiy on this topic for a couple of years here at sheffield forum. However,
What do you think a good alternative is to reducing congestion?
How would you compare an increase in parking in the city centre to the congestion charge?
What do you think is a better idea and why?
I'm currently trying to get as much info on this and what other people think about it that are living in Sheffield.
Without people just saying blergh I think it's terrible, some constructive comments would be greatly appreciated.
I know we all don't want to pay it, but when you look deeper into the matter, is it that bad an idea? I am a student with a car, and very little money, it would certainly make me get the bus, but what about people that work in town, is that really fair?
I've done a little survey for my coursework which I am in the process of analysing ( thank you all who took part in that for me )... but i'm now just trying to think outside the box as to what externalities would be created, both positive and negative.
I'm eventually trying to aim to evaluate the total costs and benefits of the introduction of the charge to sheffield.

Would you protest if a congestion charge was introduced to Sheffield? I'm sure there would be a fair amount of people who would.

Cheers

I don't like the idea of a congestion charge in the cities, but I would vote yes in a flash to a congestion charge for non-residents to enter the peak district.

No congestion charge it would be unfair to drivers my. For me it would be a pain as I drive through the city to drop my OH off at work in the morning before I carry on too work(so for the purpose I do car share and we do live a fair bit out of town) and do the same in the evening, this would just create more traffic around the perimiter of the city and be a pain for all.
________
Ferrari 348 history (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_348)

I already pay a fortune in road taxes. Why should I have to pay again?

There are two reasons the government is so keen on road pricing and so-called congestion charging, and neither are of any benefit to drivers or the transport system in general:

1. They're scared of losing their tax income when alternate fueled cars become more common. For example it's very difficult to tax the fuel for an electric car that can plug into the household mains to charge.

2. They want to be able to track every vehicle, no matter where it goes, which fits in with the big-brother mentality of this current government.

I agree to the idea of a congestion charge. Anything to remove the amount of cars on the road and get people using public transport.

I thinnk you should get rid of public transport

I agree to the idea of a congestion charge. Anything to remove the amount of cars on the road and get people using public transport.

Do you seriousley use public transport or are you just trolling as the last time I used it, it was appaling, late, packed and took ages to get anywhere. All that a congestion charge would do is kill the city center and create chaos on the ring roads!!
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Kawasaki MT1 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Kawasaki_MT1)

"I already pay a fortune in road taxes. Why should I have to pay again?

There are two reasons the why the government may be keen on road pricing and so-called congestion charging, and neither are of any benefit to drivers or the transport system in general:

1. They're scared of losing their tax income when alternate fueled cars become more common. For example it's very difficult to tax the fuel for an electric car that can plug into the household mains to charge.

2. They want to be able to track every vehicle, no matter where it goes, which fits in with the big-brother mentality of this current government."

I agree with the first opening statement, why should you pay again? However there is good reasoning for it. Motoring obviously has negative social externalities, everytime you jump in your car, you pollute, increase the chance of accidents ( not saying you're a bad driver, but if there were no cars, there would be nobody getting run over ), and build congestion. These are all costs to the community, and surely they need to be covered by someone and surely not those who don't drive. The problem is, because the private benefits don't take into account the social costs, driving in the city center or the road space is in excess demand, and so surely by bringing the social costs onto the drivers ( which they are creating themselves in fairness ) makes sense. The reason everybody is SO set against it, is because it will make their lives a little harder. I myself am a driver and would prefer for this charge not to be introduced.
Road tax is for maintaining the roads and does not reflect the social costs such as accidents and congestion ( in theory ).
Your second point about big brother... do you seriously believe that? What motived would anyone have to follow you around? I trust totally in the fact that my live is generally private, that people aren't bothered anymore about me than the next person ( bar family and friends ).

Good to see some responses though, keep them coming. It's nice to see some conflicting comments that are not turning into slander :)

P.S I have to agree with Bonjon, public transport is a state, it's terrible, but if they do spend the money on improving it, is this a reason to introduce it? Or, realistically, will anything change and will we ever see the spent money again?
Thats up for debate.

The only way to get people out of cars is to provide them with a cheap, efficient alternative. Even then it may prove difficult, as the proportion of (multiple) car owning families has increase dramatically since the 80's

Sheffield used to have an excellent public transport system (pre deregulation). Perhaps we need to look at why it worked so well, and 'regress'.

The government seems to have no problems bailing out the banks, perhaps they should invest some extra money in the publice transport infrastructure.

i suspect a lot of commuter journey motorists would possibly use the bus or tram if they actually ran past/close to their homes as a "one" bus/tram option to get them to work.

having to catch 2 seperate buses each morning/night and also having no nearby tram as an option will never be better than getting in your own car to travel in comfort and warmth as you like. people will pay road tax and insurance over the inconvienience and hard work needed to put up with the current public transport options.

Do you seriousley use public transport or are you just trolling as the last time I used it, it was appaling, late, packed and took ages to get anywhere. All that a congestion charge would do is kill the city center and create chaos on the ring roads!!

My post was a genuine reply. I use public transport because I have a genuine interest in public transport, as many other people do on here. I have never really been interested in learning to drive and unable to afford the high expense of owning and operating a car. So by me using public transport it is one less car on the road plus I get to travel on vehicles that I genuinely like and have an interest in. I do agree with you about the fact that public transport can be late and at times it does annoy me. Journey times though I think are usually ok, except on certain routes.

The only way to get people out of cars is to provide them with a cheap, efficient alternative. Even then it may prove difficult, as the proportion of (multiple) car owning families has increase dramatically since the 80's

.



No the only way to get people out of their cars is to employ a Policeman to stand at a road junction, and drag car owners out of their cars.

Their cars can then be loaded onto a truck and then sent to the scrap yard.

Why not do this ?

"I already pay a fortune in road taxes. Why should I have to pay again?

.



You are not paying to use the road, you are paying to use your car.

your car tax excuses are utter garbage

Only a small proportion of taxes paid by motorists goes to maintaining the road network.

http://cars.uk.msn.com/News/car_news_article.aspx?cp-documentid=7654396

In all the government raised £45 billion from the UK's 28 million motorists in 2007 according to the Road Users' Alliance of which £23.7bn was from fuel duty, £6.9bn came from VAT on vehicle sales, £6.8bn from VAT on fuel, £5.0bn from VED and a final £2.6bn by taxing company car drivers. Naturally all this money is being invested wisely back into our roads right? Well no, of that £45bn, the government has allocated just £7.5bn to go back into the roads out of a total transport budget of £20bn. Little wonder that according to the Annual Local Authority Road Maintenance survey, more than 95% of highways' engineers said underfunding was a threat to road safety. Be careful out there.

NO Chance! I for one wouldn't accept or want Congestion charges in Sheffield! Not yet anyway! Wait for 2 or 3 years until we see how London copes!

This government isn't happy unless it's ripping of it's public!

I hope the guy who phones the radio station is right and that it is against human rights!

Have to agree - NO CONGESTION CHARGE in sheffield

i suspect a lot of commuter journey motorists would possibly use the bus or tram if they actually ran past/close to their homes as a "one" bus/tram option to get them to work.

having to catch 2 seperate buses each morning/night and also having no nearby tram as an option will never be better than getting in your own car to travel in comfort and warmth as you like. people will pay road tax and insurance over the inconvienience and hard work needed to put up with the current public transport options.Precisely the reason why I don't use public transport and why my partner is thinking of letting buses go their seperate ways. If I were to use public transport every day I'd have to use 2 buses and a train and fifteen minutes walk, taking a total an hour and a half to get to the office. By car, I spend less in petrol than in rail and bus prices. The missus is in a similar situation where it takes her longer to reach another part of Sheffield than it takes me to drive to Leeds.Only a small proportion of taxes paid by motorists goes to maintaining the road network.Government miss using money is not a reason to implement supplementary taxes claiming to fund additional services. If I pay a tax disk, the money should go for road improvement, If i pay an electricity bill, money is for electricity, train ticket for rail maintenance...

No the only way to get people out of their cars is to employ a Policeman to stand at a road junction, and drag car owners out of their cars.

Their cars can then be loaded onto a truck and then sent to the scrap yard.

Why not do this ?

Where, oh wise one, are we going to get the extra funding for these Policemen to enforce your version of utopia?

Now if you'd said their cars should be sent to Auction instead of a scrapyard, I might (just) consider your idea to be well thought out :rolleyes:


PS Won't all the recovery trucks just add to the congestion?

You are not paying to use the road, you are paying to use your car.

your car tax excuses are utter garbage

And you don't live in the real world.

My post was a genuine reply. I use public transport because I have a genuine interest in public transport, as many other people do on here. I have never really been interested in learning to drive and unable to afford the high expense of owning and operating a car. So by me using public transport it is one less car on the road plus I get to travel on vehicles that I genuinely like and have an interest in. I do agree with you about the fact that public transport can be late and at times it does annoy me. Journey times though I think are usually ok, except on certain routes.


It was a different case for myself, before I got a car it would take me 2 hrs each way on busses to get to work and cost in excess of ?100 p/m. Now I have a car it takes 15mins each way and costs less than ?100 p/m to run my car for work. Plus the added convenience of being able to travel anywhere on a weekend.
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Dodge Custom 880 specifications (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Dodge_Custom_880)

Greengod, please don't misquote me.
That quote was me, quoting someone else, only I couldn't figure out how to get it in the quote box thing, I see it now but I was on the crummy 6th form computers with a strange resolution.
Cheers

another wind up post

Nobody has ever proposed a congestion charge in Sheffield.

Green_god is a troll. Don't feed him/her!!

I'm not suggesting that this was ever any kind of plan that was going to take place. I was just wondering what your thoughts on the matter would be.
Seems that people took this thread a bit literally and jumped to a conclusion, then started shouting and ranting... it seems to me they are the people that have given their responces little thought and have jumped staight into the NO WAY responce. Which is natural, and most probably what I would do had it not been a task set for my coursework. There may be, and are also very valid reasons a congestion charge to not be implemented, I am not saying if it is a good idea or not, who am I to make a judgement like that? In the grand scheme of things, I know nothing.
I'm just trying to gather sensible views.
What do you think the knock on effects will be?
I'm sure if you were in an amulance going that way you'd be extremely happy for the faster responce time, is that worth paying for? Well maybe not that alone...

I'd ask why congestion charging might be needed. Assuming we're looking at inside the ring road as the charge zone, there's little congestion. Largely because there's not many cars able/willing/bothered to get inside the ring road. What would actually be the aim of such a charge? The sceptics will of course say it'd just be a revenue-raising exercise.

Good point Phil,.. i'll have to put a mention in somewhere with that, in honesty.. it's not even THAT bad in town other than rush hour.

I don't agree one bit!

The price of public transport should be lowered to make it more economical to use public transport!

I agree, First Mainline increased fairs by 10% in the New Year, certainly on 97/98 services and at a time when oil prices have fallen.
These fares are now becoming uncompetitive when compared to using the car.
Perhaps they're counting on the congestion charge coming into force ?

We should introduce it to Sheffield tomorrow, It work a treat in London All the important people can go and do their important in comfort while all the unemployed, bottom feeders in their deadend job can use the buses/tram. All the well off shouldnt have to be stuck in traffic behind crappy old bangers on its last leg on his way to cash his giro

Perhaps they're counting on the congestion charge coming into force ?As no charge scheme is proposed, it would seem brave of them to rely on one coming in. And the timescales would be years and years.
We should introduce it to Sheffield tomorrow, It work a treat in London All the important people can go and do their important in comfort while all the unemployed, bottom feeders in their deadend job can use the buses/tram. All the well off shouldnt have to be stuck in traffic behind crappy old bangers on its last leg on his way to cash his giro
Some people just can't resist the urge to make themselves look immature I guess.

I think Congestion charges not environmental friendly coz 5 minute drive will take about 20 minute, London is example.

i'd pay congestion charges.........if road tax was abolished, why should the car driver who already pay huge tax amounts through fuel, and also pays road tax for the privelidge of cycle riders to use said roads drifting between the center line and the curb. yes lets stiff the car driver again, i can see this idea being as popular as the poll tax was