Schools are deliberately failing to correct spelling mistakes to avoid 'damaging pupils' self esteem'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2142547/Schools-deliberately-failing-correct-spelling-mistakes-avoid-damaging-pupils-self-esteem.html#ixzz1uXb15WCr

If it’s good enough for schools it must be good enough for SF, can the spelling police please find another job.:D

This is nothing new!! I remember having this conversation with my daughters teacher at junior school, 34 years ago!!!!! I was surprised to say the least when she she said it 'rocks childrens self esteem if we coreect every mistake they make'. I had never heard such rubbish in all my life!!!

The article is about one school. The Tory MP says without any evidence "There are probably thousands of schools that have got this policy but it’s a false kindness and we are letting our children down".

You missed full stops at the ends of your first and second sentences. But there are probably thousands of posters on here that have got this policy.

The article is about one school. The Tory MP says without any evidence "There are probably thousands of schools that have got this policy but it’s a false kindness and we are letting our children down".

You missed full stops at the ends of your first and second sentences. But there are probably thousands of posters on here that have got this policy.


:hihi::hihi:

The article is about one school. The Tory MP says without any evidence "There are probably thousands of schools that have got this policy but it’s a false kindness and we are letting our children down".

You missed full stops at the ends of your first and second sentences. But there are probably thousands of posters on here that have got this policy.

if you are very hard on spelling it will make kids very cautious and they will end up using a restricted vocabulary,wary of using a bolder word for fear of a spelling error.

I think this last sentence will make my point and you may get what I mean.Reading cr*p like this will be a bore and put off the person who is reading this sentence.Do you agree with what I am writing?It is the same with kids at school who have robotic teachers.

This is nothing new!! I remember having this conversation with my daughters teacher at junior school, 34 years ago!!!!! I was surprised to say the least when she she said it 'rocks childrens self esteem if we coreect every mistake they make'. I had never heard such rubbish in all my life!!!

In which case your life hitherto must have been lacking in colour and variety.You cannot beat a decent cliche ie "surprised to say the least".I cannot fault your memory but your daughter is missing an apostrophe!

Can you now see what a debilitating process this can become yet you advocate this pedantry?

This is nothing new!! I remember having this conversation with my daughters teacher at junior school, 34 years ago!!!!! I was surprised to say the least when she she said it 'rocks childrens self esteem if we coreect every mistake they make'. I had never heard such rubbish in all my life!!!

Hiya Scousemouse. I haven't read your paper which debunks the idea of self-concept. Can you give us a link to a publication so I may further my own understanding?

Cheers, Wack.

'rocks childrens self esteem if we coreect every mistake they make'. I had never heard such rubbish in all my life!!!

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

As a home educator, I decided to let my children learn in their own way, and not to interfere with their learning - I let them learn, I did not teach (research autonomous education or unschooling if you are interested in the method).

Not only did I never correct their spelling mistakes but by their own choice they actually never wrote anything down very often at all, usually just shopping lists, signing birthday cards, the odd short story that they wanted to record etc. Up to around 12 years old they very rarely put pen to paper at all. By all the accounts of school tradition, this should have meant they never learned to write or spell, as continuous practice is supposed to be necessary for these skills, but in fact it had the opposite effect.

I noted (to myself, not to comment to them) that when they were young their spelling was poor, but as they got older their spelling improved until they got to the stage where I asked them how to spell words instead of looking for the dictionary. I have noted this over and over again with home educated children. I believe schools inhibit learning :)

another load of ultra PC rubbish. I was taught to spell and punctuate correctly. Writing is a form of communication, and spelling should be corrected. These days you see evidence of poor spelling everywhere, with official signs being spelled and punctuated incorrectly. The mis-use of the apostrophe is almost universal.

if you are very hard on spelling it will make kids very cautious and they will end up using a restricted vocabulary,wary of using a bolder word for fear of a spelling error.

I think this last sentence will make my point and you may get what I mean.Reading cr*p like this will be a bore and put off the person who is reading this sentence.Do you agree with what I am writing?It is the same with kids at school who have robotic teachers.

Teachers dont have to be "hard" on spelling, as in, tell kids off or humiliate them for their mistakes, but any spelling mistakes a child makes should be brought to the childs attention.

Sorry to get political but if this is going on it is highly likely that it is in the local authorities that are run by the more left-leaning element of the Labour party which does have a history of being overly concerned with perceived self-esteem issues in children rather than trying to encourage them to be the best they can be academically and in sport etc.

another load of ultra PC rubbish. I was taught to spell and punctuate correctly. Writing is a form of communication, and spelling should be corrected. These days you see evidence of poor spelling everywhere, with official signs being spelled and punctuated incorrectly. The mis-use of the apostrophe is almost universal.

Please start all sentences with a capital letter.

another load of ultra PC rubbish. I was taught to spell and punctuate correctly. Writing is a form of communication, and spelling should be corrected. These days you see evidence of poor spelling everywhere, with official signs being spelled and punctuated incorrectly. The mis-use of the apostrophe is almost universal.

Neither should you put a comma before and.

Oh come on you lot! Even I'm not this pedantic! :rolleyes:

Your = you're! :D

Neither should you put a comma before and.That depends on the circumstances. A comma is used to separate two independent clauses in a sentence. (ie. My friend stayed home, and his wife went on holiday) or a comma is optional in a series. (ie. I like beer, lager(,) and cider.

Teachers dont have to be "hard" on spelling, as in, tell kids off or humiliate them for their mistakes, but any spelling mistakes a child makes should be brought to the childs attention.

Sorry to get political but if this is going on it is highly likely that it is in the local authorities that are run by the more left-leaning element of the Labour party which does have a history of being overly concerned with perceived self-esteem issues in children rather than trying to encourage them to be the best they can be academically and in sport etc.

If you're going to get political at least look at the facts. South West Bedfordshire is represented by a Tory MP and the council which covers the majority of his constituency has 49 Tory councillors and 1 Labour. Not what you'd call left leaning unless Roger has undue influence on matters educational. :hihi:

If you're going to get political at least look at the facts. South West Bedfordshire is represented by a Tory MP and the council which covers the majority of his constituency has 49 Tory councillors and 1 Labour. Not what you'd call left leaning unless Roger has undue influence on matters educational. :hihi:

I still stand by what I said.

I still by what I said.

I stand by what I still.

I stand by what I still.

I've corrected my post now. I should slow down a bit when I type. :hihi:

I still stand by what I said.

Even in the face of facts? You couldn't make it up. :huh:

Even in the face of facts? You couldn't make it up. :huh:

I was talking in general about how the teachers in some schools that focus too much on whimsical things like not correcting kids spelling in case it affected their self esteem tend to be in the left-leaning local authorities.

This is nothing new!! I remember having this conversation with my daughters teacher at junior school, 34 years ago!!!!! I was surprised to say the least when she she said it 'rocks childrens self esteem if we coreect every mistake they make'. I had never heard such rubbish in all my life!!!
Daughter's [or daughters']; and correct.
(sigh)

Neither should you put a comma before and.
Yes, you should- as in
"I am posting with correct spelling, grammatically, and in English."

if you are very hard on spelling it will make kids very cautious and they will end up using a restricted vocabulary,wary of using a bolder word for fear of a spelling error.

I think this last sentence will make my point and you may get what I mean.Reading cr*p like this will be a bore and put off the person who is reading this sentence.Do you agree with what I am writing?It is the same with kids at school who have robotic teachers.

Actually no, because they do most of their work on a computer which has a spellchecker which I admit has limitations but in general as all children have access they should be able to spell better than my generation but they can't - why do you think that is?

Also you have made one or two faux pas' on your post:hihi::hihi::hihi:

So sorry Jeffrey Shaw, sometimes my brain and fingers don't work in harmony!! I should have re read my previous post about my daughter's school, then it would have been correct.

This is nothing new!! I remember having this conversation with my daughters teacher at junior school, 34 years ago!!!!! I was surprised to say the least when she she said it 'rocks childrens self esteem if we coreect every mistake they make'. I had never heard such rubbish in all my life!!!

I assume that you told her what she ought to be doing, based on your own teaching experience ?

Imagine receiving a CV littered with spelling mistakes, it might make all the difference to securing a job.

In which case your life hitherto must have been lacking in colour and variety.You cannot beat a decent cliche ie "surprised to say the least".I cannot fault your memory but your daughter is missing an apostrophe!

Can you now see what a debilitating process this can become yet you advocate this pedantry?

I think you might be mistaking an online forum for an educational establishment.

Here it's pedantry to correct every typo, missed apostrophe or lack of punctuation. In a school it's exactly what is needed in order to actually teach. Obviously the level of correction will vary, I doubt that a teacher would get far in explaining the use of the apostrophe to a five year old, and if a document was filled with errors then more might be gained by only pointing out the most glaring. But to not correct at all is to fail to educate.

As a home educator, I decided to let my children learn in their own way, and not to interfere with their learning - I let them learn, I did not teach (research autonomous education or unschooling if you are interested in the method).

Not only did I never correct their spelling mistakes but by their own choice they actually never wrote anything down very often at all, usually just shopping lists, signing birthday cards, the odd short story that they wanted to record etc. Up to around 12 years old they very rarely put pen to paper at all. By all the accounts of school tradition, this should have meant they never learned to write or spell, as continuous practice is supposed to be necessary for these skills, but in fact it had the opposite effect.

I noted (to myself, not to comment to them) that when they were young their spelling was poor, but as they got older their spelling improved until they got to the stage where I asked them how to spell words instead of looking for the dictionary. I have noted this over and over again with home educated children. I believe schools inhibit learning :)
If that were true then children that play truant a lot would end up better educated than those who attend, but it doesn't seem to be the case...

Imagine receiving a CV littered with spelling mistakes, it might make all the difference to securing a job.

Unless you're applying for a job as a teacher, in which case spelling mistakes will be expected.

I think you might be mistaking an online forum for an educational establishment.

Here it's pedantry to correct every typo, missed apostrophe or lack of punctuation. In a school it's exactly what is needed in order to actually teach. Obviously the level of correction will vary, I doubt that a teacher would get far in explaining the use of the apostrophe to a five year old, and if a document was filled with errors then more might be gained by only pointing out the most glaring. But to not correct at all is to fail to educate.


Maybe the reason teachers no longer correct spelling and grammar is because they don't know how. We've had more than 40 years of so called "progressive" education so many of today's teachers grew up not having their self esteem damaged and not learning how to read and write.

Imagine receiving a CV littered with spelling mistakes, it might make all the difference to securing a job.

I wouldn't give a job to anyone who can't spell. To me it shows that they can't be bothered to learn their own language properly so they aren't likely to learn to do a job properly.

Maybe the reason teachers no longer correct spelling and grammar is because they don't know how. We've had more than 40 years of so called "progressive" education so many of today's teachers grew up not having their self esteem damaged and not learning how to read and write.

That can't be true, I'm less than 40 and my spelling and grammar were corrected at school. I remember taking home spelling slips and having to practice them, no phonetic nonsense.

I wouldn't give a job to anyone who can't spell. To me it shows that they can't be bothered to learn their own language properly so they aren't likely to learn to do a job properly.
Nor would I. Eventually, illiterate non-dyslexics might realise why they're unemployed.

That can't be true, I'm less than 40 and my spelling and grammar were corrected at school. I remember taking home spelling slips and having to practice them, no phonetic nonsense.
"PractiSe"?!

Maybe the reason teachers no longer correct spelling and grammar is because they don't know how. .........

That can't be true, .........


I'm not sure if you are crossing wires, but I can point you to several teachers whose spelling is a disgrace.

"PractiSe"?!

Actually, Jeffrey, according to Collins dictionary it can be either spelling and mean the same. :hihi::hihi:

Daughter's [or daughters']; and correct.
(sigh)

No comma or semi-colon needed Jeffrey.

Unless you're applying for a job as a teacher, in which case spelling mistakes will be expected.

:hihi::hihi::hihi: That's particularly true if you want to teach English and if you want to be able to read the essays presented to you in txt spk. Innit.

I reely disaproove of peeple that cant speel.....thay must me reely thick and of no consequence to the human race and therefore be the butt of other people's judgement and disapproval.

Oh, hang on, that's just SF.

If someone is trying to post their point of view, and you can understand their post and opinion, please don't correct it. It's both patronising, and extremely bad manners! :rant:

Sorry....rant over!

Teachers dont have to be "hard" on spelling, as in, tell kids off or humiliate them for their mistakes, but any spelling mistakes a child makes should be brought to the childs attention.

Sorry to get political but if this is going on it is highly likely that it is in the local authorities that are run by the more left-leaning element of the Labour party which does have a history of being overly concerned with perceived self-esteem issues in children rather than trying to encourage them to be the best they can be academically and in sport etc.

Certain simple errors can be corrected but the misspelling of a complex word need not be corrected.moreover it is giving teachers a great deal more to do when marking work-perhaps thats the hidden agenda ?

I remember at school having weekly spelling tests, but this was 20 years ago now.
I've always been good at spelling, it was extremely rare that I didn't get 20/20.

Actually no, because they do most of their work on a computer which has a spellchecker which I admit has limitations but in general as all children have access they should be able to spell better than my generation but they can't - why do you think that is?

Also you have made one or two faux pas' on your post:hihi::hihi::hihi:

Faux pas are my speciality and always feature on my menus-I imagine you are more of a dumpling person:love:

I think you might be mistaking an online forum for an educational establishment.

Here it's pedantry to correct every typo, missed apostrophe or lack of punctuation. In a school it's exactly what is needed in order to actually teach. Obviously the level of correction will vary, I doubt that a teacher would get far in explaining the use of the apostrophe to a five year old, and if a document was filled with errors then more might be gained by only pointing out the most glaring. But to not correct at all is to fail to educate.

Whats is an educational establishment-over our way we call this a school:rant:

I remember at school having weekly spelling tests, but this was 20 years ago now.
I've always been good at spelling, it was extremely rare that I didn't get 20/20.

And I bet you got 21/20 for modesty:)

Certain simple errors can be corrected but the misspelling of a complex word need not be corrected.

I dont see why not.

moreover it is giving teachers a great deal more to do when marking work-perhaps thats the hidden agenda ?

"A great deal more to do"?! sure teachers have lots to do but teaching children to spell correctly should be a high priority surely.

Whats is an educational establishment-over our way we call this a school:rant:

Do you not have colleges or universities 'over your way'?

I'm not sure if you are crossing wires, but I can point you to several teachers whose spelling is a disgrace.

I didn't dispute that, I was saying that it can't be true that for 40 years spelling has not been corrected as I was at school within the past 40 years and spelling was being taught and corrected.

"PractiSe"?!

prac·tice/ˈpraktəs/

Noun: The actual application or use of an idea, belief, or method as opposed to theories about such application or use.
Verb: Perform (an activity) or exercise (a skill) repeatedly or regularly in order to improve or maintain one's proficiency.

http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammartips/grammar-tip-practise-practice.asp

Do you not have colleges or universities 'over your way'?

Oh yeah,but we call them...........colleges and universities-not the poncy EE which you favour:hihi:

You'd use three words instead of two then, and still apparently missed the point that this isn't a school or college or university but is a forum.

I dont see why not.



"A great deal more to do"?! sure teachers have lots to do but teaching children to spell correctly should be a high priority surely.

In a Maths lesson?There is more to school than Englsh.

In a Maths lesson?There is more to school than Englsh.

And in a maths lesson would you expect to do a lot of writing in natural English? Or would you mainly expect to be writing down numbers and equations?

And in a maths lesson would you expect to do a lot of writing in natural English? Or would you mainly expect to be writing down numbers and equations?

Most Maths today is problem solving and a written scenario is employed-I bet it has changed a bit since your school leaving cert.

You'd use three words instead of two then, and still apparently missed the point that this isn't a school or college or university but is a forum.

Well I would try to avoid sounding less like Andy Gove and more like Andy Capp

Most Maths today is problem solving and a written scenario is employed-I bet it has changed a bit since your school leaving cert.

My two A levels in maths you mean?

My two A levels in maths you mean?

Nice one-did you do the Fuhrer Maths course and then a degree?I did A Level in single Maths,but I prefer to study something which is related to people.The school cert was a great exam;my nanan keeps telling me she had to learn things by rote to gain a pass.

If that were true then children that play truant a lot would end up better educated than those who attend, but it doesn't seem to be the case...

Well I assure you what I have written is true, but you seem to be drawing a conclusion from my post that may not be true. Home education is not equivalent to truancy, I did not teach my children but I gave them every opportunity to learn.

Surely the teaching of correct spelling and punctuation promotes a more rigorous and self-disciplined approach in children who are at an age when their brains are like sponges , soaking everything up . Maybe it's less about correct spelling and punctuation per se , but more about introducing and teaching a form of self-discipline which may then be carried on through other aspects of that person's life .
If teachers send out the message that correct spelling doesn't matter , then what else
" doesn't matter " ? As regards the erosion of self-esteem , maybe bullying at school should be more of a focus for teachers . I've heard some horrendous stories recently from friends and colleagues whose teenage daughters have been the subject of bullying at school and suffer terrible self-esteem issues .

Well I assure you what I have written is true, but you seem to be drawing a conclusion from my post that may not be true. Home education is not equivalent to truancy, I did not teach my children but I gave them every opportunity to learn.

.................and I for one so admire you for having the conviction to do that.

Nice one-did you do the Fuhrer Maths course and then a degree?I did A Level in single Maths,but I prefer to study something which is related to people.The school cert was a great exam;my nanan keeps telling me she had to learn things by rote to gain a pass.

Pure and Applied and Further, and the S level paper, which I'm not sure exists now.
And of course my other two A levels and the S level in physics.

Then a degree which was only vaguely maths related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarship_Level

The S level ceased to exist in 2001, and although I was good enough to sit them, I wasn't good enough to get a mark in them :(

Well I assure you what I have written is true, but you seem to be drawing a conclusion from my post that may not be true. Home education is not equivalent to truancy, I did not teach my children but I gave them every opportunity to learn.

I believe schools inhibit learning
I don't think I drew any conclusions except what you stated. If schools inhibited learning then children who were not there would be learning more effectively.
Maybe what you really mean is that there are better environments for learning than schools.

Nice one-did you do the Fuhrer Maths course and then a degree?I did A Level in single Maths...

What's a Fuhrer Maths course? Is it when the BNP counts how few votes it gets these days?

What's a Fuhrer Maths course? Is it when the BNP counts how few votes it gets these days?

It is one where an Austrian supply teacher barges in ,takes over the lesson and sends the best students to stand in the corridor.

Surely the teaching of correct spelling and punctuation promotes a more rigorous and self-disciplined approach in children who are at an age when their brains are like sponges , soaking everything up . Maybe it's less about correct spelling and punctuation per se , but more about introducing and teaching a form of self-discipline which may then be carried on through other aspects of that person's life .
If teachers send out the message that correct spelling doesn't matter , then what else
" doesn't matter " ? As regards the erosion of self-esteem , maybe bullying at school should be more of a focus for teachers . I've heard some horrendous stories recently from friends and colleagues whose teenage daughters have been the subject of bullying at school and suffer terrible self-esteem issues .
That was because they were poor at spelling and the teacher made it an issue.:hihi:

I'm glad some schools teach spelling. Encouraging children to read helps them recognise words and how to spell them. My 5 year old granddaughter goes to a small, rurual CofE school that is fairly traditional, and she takes part in spelling tests.

If the children do well they get a coloured marble that goes into their team's jar. They can win marbles for all sorts of things, tidying up, being kind to another child or children, so even the less academic children can contribute to their team's success. Every so often the marbles are counted and the winning team gets some small treat. The ethos there is about valuing each child and helping them value each other.

Schools are deliberately failing to correct spelling mistakes to avoid 'damaging pupils' self esteem'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2142547/Schools-deliberately-failing-correct-spelling-mistakes-avoid-damaging-pupils-self-esteem.html#ixzz1uXb15WCr

If it’s good enough for schools it must be good enough for SF, can the spelling police please find another job.:D

I think it`s disgraceful, you want to see some of the E Mails we get, they take half an hour to decipher ! No commas, no capitals, no apostrophes, how they passed any exams I do not know. Even some of the job applications we get are an absolute joke, and, one assumes, the applicants are actually trying on those !

I think it`s disgraceful, you want to see some of the E Mails we get, they take half an hour to decipher ! No commas, no capitals, no apostrophes, how they passed any exams I do not know. Even some of the job applications we get are an absolute joke, and, one assumes, the applicants are actually trying on those !

I forgot to mention, though it`s probably obvious, the spelling is often an absolute joke. These people who can`t be arsed to check their spelling and grammar should send some payment with all their letters and E Mails to pay for our time having to decipher their coded communications.......

Why are you using the 'wrong' apostrophe?
`!= '

Why is this news now - i did teaching practice in the early 90's,the only teachers encouraged to be responsible over spellings etc were English teachers.

Current English teachers at some schools are "encouraged" not to highlight more than 3 grammatical errors in school homework so that it doesn't have a negative effect on the pupils.

I wouldn't give a job to anyone who can't spell. To me it shows that they can't be bothered to learn their own language properly so they aren't likely to learn to do a job properly.


Bah, I agree with Mad Jim! :help:

Maybe the reason teachers no longer correct spelling and grammar is because they don't know how. We've had more than 40 years of so called "progressive" education so many of today's teachers grew up not having their self esteem damaged and not learning how to read and write.

[Phew; normal service resumed.]

Nonsense.

That is all.

prac·tice/ˈpraktəs/

Noun: The actual application or use of an idea, belief, or method as opposed to theories about such application or use.
Verb: Perform (an activity) or exercise (a skill) repeatedly or regularly in order to improve or maintain one's proficiency.

http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammartips/grammar-tip-practise-practice.asp

Hiya Cyclone. That text doesn't appear in your link. Your link states that "practise" is correct.

Actually, Jeffrey, according to Collins dictionary it can be either spelling and mean the same. :hihi::hihi:


Which Collins Dictionary is that then? The online one I looked at seems to be correct in distinguishing "practice" the noun from "practise" the verb.

Do you have a link for us?

[Phew; normal service resumed.]

Nonsense.

That is all.
Which is the 'nonsense' bit, in your estimation? That no-one (inc. teachers) is nowadays taught correct use of English?

I was born and reached teenage before TV became universally available. Apart from radio, the only source of entertainment or information was the book or newspaper. This created a much better ability to read and write than today. Inability to spell correctly was at that time equal to being thought stupid, and a barrier to finding a good job. Spelling checks work to a point, but do not detect homophones.

Hiya Cyclone. That text doesn't appear in your link. Your link states that "practise" is correct.

The link was separate to the definition, it added more information and explained how the problem occurred and why it is now common usage to use practice when previously practise would have been correct (Americanisation basically).

(Illiteracy, basically.)

Definition for illiteracy:
Web definitions:
ignorance resulting from not reading.
Not if this definition is correct.

You do realise that language is a fluid thing, right? In this case I'd say I made a mistake, but it's not a clear cut example.

Why is this news now - i did teaching practice in the early 90's,the only teachers encouraged to be responsible over spellings etc were English teachers.

Current English teachers at some schools are "encouraged" not to highlight more than 3 grammatical errors in school homework so that it doesn't have a negative effect on the pupils.

In the main its that daft element of the Labour party that are behind it; its not just in Britain, the Labour parties, or their equivalents, are doing it in all western countries on behalf of the Kremlin and Beijing, and perhaps Saudi Arabia, to dumb the west down to take us all over. :suspect: Or am I being too paranoid?

It's a mindset. No-one can be allowed to fail. Everyone's a winner (like Hot Chocolate advised, some time ago).

Not if this definition is correct.

You do realise that language is a fluid thing, right? In this case I'd say I made a mistake, but it's not a clear cut example.

I'd agree that it's a mistake but I also acknowledge the difficulty when dealing with American influences.

As far as I'm aware there has been no acceptance into common usage of "practice" as a verb up to now.

Which is the 'nonsense' bit, in your estimation? That no-one (inc. teachers) is nowadays taught correct use of English?

Well, that'll do for a start.

It's a mindset. No-one can be allowed to fail. Everyone's a winner (like Hot Chocolate advised, some time ago).

Hi Jeffrey. Who are you suggesting has this mindset?

I'd agree that it's a mistake but I also acknowledge the difficulty when dealing with American influences.

As far as I'm aware there has been no acceptance into common usage of "practice" as a verb up to now.You have been dealing with American influences since the Talkies were invented. Its time to get over it. We aren't going to go away anytime soon, at least not until we've taken home all the Olympic medals.:)

I forgot to mention, though it`s probably obvious, the spelling is often an absolute joke. These people who can`t be arsed to check their spelling and grammar should send some payment with all their letters and E Mails to pay for our time having to decipher their coded communications.......

Do they use the word arsed as it is vulgar and suggests you have double standards.You really like a moan dont you?

Hi Jeffrey. Who are you suggesting has this mindset?
Persons
perceived to be
politically correct
paragons of
paranoia.

In the main its that daft element of the Labour party that are behind it; its not just in Britain, the Labour parties, or their equivalents, are doing it in all western countries on behalf of the Kremlin and Beijing, and perhaps Saudi Arabia, to dumb the west down to take us all over. :suspect: Or am I being too paranoid?

I have heard the Green party advocate spelling using phonetics and symbols and writing in vegan ink which is made by combining cold tea and iodine.In addition Chinese hackers have hacked into and recalibrated spellcheckers to sabotage the language.

You have been dealing with American influences since the Talkies were invented. Its time to get over it. We aren't going to go away anytime soon, at least not until we've taken home all the Olympic medals.:)

Hey Buck.

Don't get me wrong here; I'm not complaining about the American influences, just acknowledging their presence. I don't have anything to "get over".

Persons
perceived to be
politically correct
paragons of
paranoia.

Um, nice variation on the 俳句 there but, who are you suggesting has this mindset?

Hey Buck.

Don't get me wrong here; I'm not complaining about the American influences, just acknowledging their presence. I don't have anything to "get over".I wasn't being serious. I don't know if you've ever ben around for one of those "I hate Americanisms" threads, but they're hilarious, especially the folks who say "I can't bear them".

I wouldn't give a job to anyone who can't spell. To me it shows that they can't be bothered to learn their own language properly so they aren't likely to learn to do a job properly.

It didn't do the likes of Richard Branson, Henry Ford, Tom Cruise, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Thomas Edison and many more any harm.

I wasn't being serious. I don't know if you've ever ben around for one of those "I hate Americanisms" threads, but they're hilarious, especially the folks who say "I can't bear them".

I know. Small town mentality. I've seen plenty of that in the US too, though. Some Americanisms get my goat, too, but I am a fan of plenty of others. I admire the to-the-point-ness of a lot of American terms, particularly those on street signs.

"WRONG WAY"

Love it.

Why are you using the 'wrong' apostrophe?
`!= '

Because I got into the habit years ago, and, since it make no difference whatsoever to the understanding of the text (most people can`t tell the difference anyway), I can`t be arsed to change.

The same could be said of minor spelling mistakes.

I was told spelling didn't matter so long as they got all the facts down.

I was told spelling didn't matter so long as they got all the facts down.

You were told this as a teacher? By whom?

That can't be true, I'm less than 40 and my spelling and grammar were corrected at school. I remember taking home spelling slips and having to practice them, no phonetic nonsense.

Me too, we had progressively harder spelling competitions. You would get a list of maybe 50 spellings that you had to learn and then we got a written test. They were lots of fun to a kid, trying to beat your friends and get through the most tests (if you got a percentage correct you could move on to the next one). I think the teacher started to regret the idea when we really started to get competitive about it and stormed through the tests so he had to make new ones evey week.:D

Seeing a spelling correction on your work was never detrimental to your self esteem, it just drew your attention to it and showed you the correct way to spell it for the next time you used the word. It also means I don't need to use spelling checkers which I still can't default to UK English or the completely rubbish auto correct options in word.

I have never been good at grammar though, we didn't really get taught it that much until we started learning french and german. Nearly all the grammar I know is through reading.

The combination of text speak, not correcting spellings at school and phonetics explains a lot actually!

I forgot to mention, though it`s probably obvious, the spelling is often an absolute joke. These people who can`t be arsed to check their spelling and grammar should send some payment with all their letters and E Mails to pay for our time having to decipher their coded communications.......

why decipher them? Surely its the easiest way to cut the applicant list down-bin immediately!

Me to
Oh dear...

Oh dear...

typos are not the same as spelling mistakes and a forum ain't a job application!

typos are not the same as spelling mistakes and a forum ain't a job application!
Granted; but posting on a 'spelling' thread invites closer scrutiny.

Granted; but posting on a 'spelling' thread invites closer scrutiny.

only if you claim you never make mistakes-which no-one did.

Which of us is without error?
[But at least my computer does a wiggly line if it doesn't like the spelling that I've typed!]

[But at least my computer does a wiggly line if it doesn't like the spelling that I've typed!]
You're the King of picking up on people's spelling. You've rarely got anything else to add. There is a certain irony in taking a high-minded stance when you've got a computer checking what you write for you.

Which of us is without error?
[But at least my computer does a wiggly line if it doesn't like the spelling that I've typed!]

You obviously agree with me then, the wiggly line is a digital teacher (in this sense) so I don't know what your point is.

The wiggly line makes people lazy, I can correct my work by reading it through, another bonus is I whoop ass at boggle!

I am not going to read through my posts on a forum though in general because its not that important here. When you have a point please enlighten us all!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18084204

We should clearly teach phonetically, ignore bad spelling and start children at school later :roll:

This guy is pretty arrogant and didn't even start school late he just repeated a year:huh: What actually happened was he had an extra year of school.

"More anecdotally, I am myself a living example of the virtues of 'later is better'. "Coming from a working-class background, I was allowed to repeat my first year at primary school when I first started school in 1958, as I was very young in the class - and I went on to obtain a first-class degree at Oxford University and a PhD.

You're the King of picking up on people's spelling. You've rarely got anything else to add. There is a certain irony in taking a high-minded stance when you've got a computer checking what you write for you.
Er, no. It does not detect errors of syntax or grammar- nor can one put those down to typographical error.

The state school education system in this country is an utter disgrace. Teachers are paid through the nose and they fail to give kids a proper start in life.

The state school education system in this country is an utter disgrace. Teachers are paid through the nose and they fail to give kids a proper start in life.

Eh? Ok why do some kids in the same class get good grades and others don't?

Eh? Ok why do some kids in the same class get good grades and others don't?

Support from parents and private tuition?

Support from parents and private tuition?

Perhaps, but what I'm saying is a teacher cannot make people want to learn. They can encourage people to learn but if someone doesn't want to to learn, they won't.

The state school education system in this country is an utter disgrace. Teachers are paid through the nose and they fail to give kids a proper start in life.

You are wrong their as most are paid by bank transfer.Your posts do suggest that education is somewhat deficient in Sheffield,especially the repetition and narrow range of expression.

Perhaps, but what I'm saying is a teacher cannot make people want to learn. They can encourage people to learn but if someone doesn't want to to learn, they won't.

Agreed - but equally a child who is wanting to learn cannot make the teacher actually teach them.....

If, as is often the case at least in Key Stage 1, a young child writes a few sentences or paragraphs completely full of mistakes, I believe it is most beneficial to target a few mistakes at a time. The child is more likely to improve if they are given a target (or even two or three targets) at a time rather than be given their work back completely full of teacher's comments which could overwhelm a young child.

Point out a few errors at a time, encourage the child to improve on those, and then target other errors. Even at secondary level, I don't think it is beneficial to scribble comments all over every single error in an error-ridden piece of work. Nothing to do with a child's self-esteem, but more to do with the fact that it is easier to improve on one, two, or three targets at a time than to expect a child to learn a hundred new spellings from one piece of marked work!

You're the King of picking up on people's spelling. You've rarely got anything else to add. There is a certain irony in taking a high-minded stance when you've got a computer checking what you write for you.

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
It's letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me so.

If, as is often the case at least in Key Stage 1, a young child writes a few sentences or paragraphs completely full of mistakes, I believe is most beneficial to target a few mistakes at a time. The child is more likely to improve if they are given a target (or even two or three targets) at a time rather than be given their work back completely full of teacher's comments which could overwhelm a young child.

Point out a few errors at a time, encourage the child to improve on those, and then target other errors.

If there are that many mistakes I would suggest the work is too hard for them so it is that, that should be changed not the level of correction.

If there are that many mistakes I would suggest the work is too hard for them so it is that, that should be changed not the level of correction.

I agree to an extent, although I'm not sure that it would be a good policy to exclude children with very poor spelling from writing sentences or paragraphs at secondary school. Many schools have been targeting small groups of children and giving them daily sessions in phonics and spelling to improve their reading and writing. The government's cost-cutting measures are putting such schemes at risk. I believe these cuts will prove very costly in the future.

Fact: a disproportionate number of those in prison are illiterate.
Cause or effect?

I don't think going to prison can make you become illiterate. I think what you mean to ask though is 'correlation or causation?'.

Yes. But the point is whether illiterate people are more likely to go criminal or whether criminally-disposed people are more likely to be illiterate. If prison education spent more time on educating them to literacy, they might be not be reincarcerated.

Yes. But the point is whether illiterate people are more likely to go criminal or whether criminally-disposed people are more likely to be illiterate. If prison education spent more time on educating them to literacy, they might be not be reincarcerated.

Does illiteracy increase the likelihood of ending up in prison?

So that's what you were trying to ask?

Are the criminally disposed more likely to be illiterate can be answered already (assuming that those in jail are representative) the answer is yes.

If you want to infer some root cause to both of them though, ie a factor that causes criminal behaviour and is likely to result in illiteracy then you'll probably need a sociology degree and a flame proof suit.

Does illiteracy increase the likelihood of ending up in prison?

So that's what you were trying to ask?

Are the criminally disposed more likely to be illiterate can be answered already (assuming that those in jail are representative) the answer is yes.

If you want to infer some root cause to both of them though, ie a factor that causes criminal behaviour and is likely to result in illiteracy then you'll probably need a sociology degree and a flame proof suit.

The second point in bold does not necessarily follow from the first. Is it not feasible that the illiterate criminally disposed is more likely to be imprisoned than the literate?

Which is why I clearly stated the assumption.

In other words, thick people are more likely to end up in prison. The way of the world I'm afraid.

In other words, thick people are more likely to end up in prison.
Not necessarily: lack of intelligence does not always correlate with illiteracy nor with criminality.

People in prison are more likely to be 'thick', being a) criminal and b) caught does seem to show a strong correlation with being a little bit dim.

I'd argue that lack of intelligence does correlate quite strongly with illiteracy though.

Because I got into the habit years ago, and, since it make no difference whatsoever to the understanding of the text (most people can`t tell the difference anyway), I can`t be arsed to change.

It makes it harder to read.