Google are going to have their own free email service called Gmail which will offer 1 gig of storage space. Each email will be accompanied with a relevant ad.

What does everyone think about this? Is it something you will use?

The storage space is large compared to other similar services but I'm not sure I like the idea of Google collecting data on people and with this in mind have concerns about the overall privacy of the emails.

Anyway, I've attached a corresponding link to the beta.

https://gmail.google.com/?dest=http%3A%2F%2Fgmail.google.com%2Fgmail

they say its supported through the use of text based ads depending on your search, so not banners or pop-ups. Sounds good.

But it appears that all mails will be scanned. There could be repercussions

http://www.spymac.com/ have just launched one with 1GB storage, like you pointed out I also think they scan through e-mails.

Originally posted by PENGUIN
http://www.spymac.com/ have just launched one with 1GB storage, like you pointed out I also think they scan through e-mails.

Spymac doesn't scan emails! Or did I misunderstand? Also, they give you 150MB of webspace and also ftp space. Amazing deal.

Gmail is a scary proposition. There are a lot of rumours flying around right now about how Google is going to use the information from the email...who knows at this point. However, they could do a heck of a good job on profiling...scary.

But anyone using the service is told that their email will be scanned before signing up, so if you dont want them to do it, just dont bother signing up. Go with hotmail, or Yahoo, or one of the other million and one free email services out there. You could even just use the one that you got when you signed up with your ISP.

Do you really think any of the free email providers dont scan their emails too?...

Best bet is either paying for it, or using your ISP email

Originally posted by RPG
Do you really think any of the free email providers dont scan their emails too?...

Best bet is either paying for it, or using your ISP email

Tin foil hats aside, as far as I know the common free email sites don't state in their TOS that they are going to read/scan users email. I guess people are more upset about Gmail also because 1GB might actually be useful, whereas now most people just use free email accounts for spam/sign up addresses anyways.

How do those complaining think that spam blocking works?


Susie, with everything to hide ;)

It's the fact that Google will spider your email to get the gist of the subject, and then serve an advert that is related to that subject if possible. That, to me, is intrusive and over stepping the mark.

"to get the gist of the subject"? Are you sure? Citations would be nice.


Susie, who doesn't understand why there are spiders on the web

Comparing webpages to email is not a fair comparison...webpages are public whereas email is usually presumed to be private. Anyway if you have a webpage and want to keep Google from spidering it a simple robots.txt file is all you need.

Spam blocking works mostly by scanning headers and subject lines also body text. But this is not 'profiled', well as far as I know it doesn't create databases for individual users.

Here's a quip from arstechnica..

While speculation at this stage, there's also an issue relating to how AdSense could allow Google to infer the content of e-mails. To a limited extent, one can ferret out the kind of content on a web page by merely looking at the ads being served up by Google. It's not yet clear how much human inspection would be involved in assessing the success of certain campaigns, but how abstracted the process would need to be is not completely clear, either. [..] Google, at the very least, may find itself having to clarify at what level human involvement begins. But there's another piece to this puzzle, again having to do with the need for statistics.


Since performance stats require gauging the performance of ads in their textual contexts in a very broad collection of samples, then obviously Google needs to keep messages for a period of time in order to complete such analysis. This is already part of the purpose of Google's caching system, and the privacy statement addresses this issue within the scope of Gmail: "Residual copies of email may remain on our systems, even after you have deleted them from your mailbox or after the termination of your account" (emphasis added). Simon Davies, director of Privacy International, has said that this practice is a direct violation of European privacy laws which stipulate that users must have complete control over their communications. A delete that's not really a delete is apparently a problem, if Davies is to be believed. According to Reuters, Davies' organization has filed a complaint already in the UK. In the United States, laws permitting backup likely alleviate this specific concern (e.g., Title 18 of the US Code, Part I, Chapter 121 Sec. 2704).

I suppose Susie that people are upset about this for the same reason they don't like companies like Gator. Do you run AdAware/SpyBot or install all the DateTime Managers you can and let Gator profile you?

Anyways, I don't really care as I never have used free webmail for anything personal. The way it is right now almost all webmail is sent with plain text files, yahoo doesn't even have secure login, all the IM services are also plain text logins/msgs (except AOL now), so they really aren't an option for people concerned about privacy whether they are profiling or not.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3621169.stm

...sounds like they are having to rethink this idea.

Nomme

Some interesting comments on that site.

Originally posted by genesiscouch
I suppose Susie that people are upset about this for the same reason they don't like companies like Gator. Do you run AdAware/SpyBot or install all the DateTime Managers you can and let Gator profile you?


There is a difference though: People have to make a choice to use GMail. They specifically and deliberately sign up for it. Gator and its ilk are known for installing themselves without your knowledge, or getting onto your PC any way possible.

The solution to the problem "GMail invades my privacy" is "use Hotmail, Yahoo Mail, your provider's e-mail."

Nope, actually Gator does not install itself without your knowledge. There is always a prompt box with a link to details. It is disguised under a multitude of aliases...but it still asks. Is it surreptitious? Yes. But that is exactly the same point that is being made about Gmail.

The argument that if you don't like gmail don't use it doesn't get around the possible legal problems. And even if it is decided there aren't legal problems the privacy questions should still be asked. Countries have laws and guidelines for ethical business practices so that it's citizens don't have to spend time and money investigating every single transaction. Saying the solution to a problem is to avoid it is like the age old analogy of blaming rape on wearing a short skirt.

Originally posted by SusieP
There is a difference though: People have to make a choice to use GMail. They specifically and deliberately sign up for it. Gator and its ilk are known for installing themselves without your knowledge, or getting onto your PC any way possible.

The solution to the problem "GMail invades my privacy" is "use Hotmail, Yahoo Mail, your provider's e-mail."

Originally posted by genesiscouch
Nope, actually Gator does not install itself without your knowledge. There is always a prompt box with a link to details. It is disguised under a multitude of aliases...but it still asks. Is it surreptitious? Yes. But that is exactly the same point that is being made about Gmail.

How are Google being, as you put it, "surreptitious"?

Originally posted by genesiscouch
The argument that if you don't like gmail don't use it doesn't get around the possible legal problems. And even if it is decided there aren't legal problems the privacy questions should still be asked. Countries have laws and guidelines for ethical business practices so that it's citizens don't have to spend time and money investigating every single transaction.

I can't talk from a legal standpoint, but if there are legal problems, then GMail will obviously have to change things. But until that happens, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Originally posted by genesiscouch
Saying the solution to a problem is to avoid it is like the age old analogy of blaming rape on wearing a short skirt.

I find that extremely offensive on a number of personal levels.

You enter a contract with google. If you don't like the terms and conditions as set out by them, then don't use it. If you don't have a problem with them indexing e-mail etc, then use it. I don't see what those opposed to using it are hoping to achieve by attempting to stop everyone from using it.

Susie, emotional

I can't see how it is such a big deal. What have people got in their inboxes that they're so private about that they'd be scared of an automated bot scanning keywords? It isn't like theres going to be a group of nerds sat around their PCs reading billions of private emails every day. If you really hate the idea that much, don't use it. It isn't as if Google have kept the issue a secret - the service isn't even released yet.

Hi Susie...sorry if I caused you to become emotional :(

Honestly I don't care about gmail that much but somehow I've let myself get drawn into this thread.

Here's the point I was trying to make with that sentence that upset you. The analogy is a common one used in North America anyways to indicate a logical fallacy...or at least an ethical one. Even if a person is "asking" for it, it doesn't make an action excusable. (this is in no way a comment on rape...like I said it's an analogy that comes from decades ago). So even if a person enters into a contract willingly it doesn't mean that Google is excusable in doing whatever they want with that persons information...

Google is possibly being surreptitious by concealing parts or 'fuzzifying' the gmail TOS (Terms of Service). They are still refusing to be fully transparent on exactly how the service and information will be used.

I can't speak from a legal standpoint either but we already have European organizations and the State of California lodging complaints and/or investigations into the gmail service.

Anyways, there really isn't anything to argue about at this point. The service is in Beta, the details are fuzzy and no one is sure what's going on. It's really more a debate about privacy and user responsibility.

p.s. I do love Google so I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Yup,

Gmail will scan your mails and use the results to target advertising to you.

Chances are that most of your mails between here and the US will go through something like Echelon or Raptor anyway, which scans your mails and tells a spook somewhere if you're dumb enough to openly mention drug deals, biological weapons or building an A bomb in the garage. (Oops! Mr Spook, that was just an example...;-) )

It's not just stuff like Gator you have to be aware of - there are lots of Spyware programs that install themselves much less openly than Gator. At least Gator tells you!

A lot of these issues boil down to one thing. In the words of SCience Fiction author Robert Heinlein : TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. If you think you're getting something for free you're misguided (or the folks offering it are having a bad business model day). SOmewhere the costs of you getting it, and a little cut for profit, are being recouped.

Gmail is not compulsory, Spyware, etc. is not compulsory provided you take care and choose your programs carefully. Echelon and Raptor - along with other monitoring that is no doubt carried out within the remit of National Security - we have to live with.

Joe

Thanks for reading the thread before replying, Joe.


Susie, who already said that

It's not as if there's someone sitting reading each one you recieve. The spidering would all be electronic so I doubt there's anything to be concerned about.

Susie,

Sorry if I somehow ****** you off.

I may have mentioned a few things you said but I do believe that I contributed as well.

Anyone got an account yet?

I have, and I must say it certainly is quite amazing :D

How do you get one?

At the moment you have to be invited by someone who already has an account. and before anyone asks im third down the chain so dont have any invites :(

try Ebay, loads of people selling invites, I'll wait for it to become free.

Best to get in early and snap up the good addresses though.

These accounts are been auctioned off on Ebay if anyone is interested? :D

http://m2.com/M2/m2web.nsf/pv/85256A0F00242D3C85256EC8004B3527?OpenDocument&PubWrapper=Telecomworldwire

Does anybody not have a GMAIL account who could really do with one? I have 6 invites going spare PM me with your email and I'll send you an invite.

To all the people that have PM'd be about an account try again my message box was full.

I've got some Gmail invites - PM me if you want one, with your email address.

I got one invite. PM me if you want it :)

Yup MSNers have had a few - I have 12 left (PM me if you want one). Can't say I use it regularly - however, after RPG or Lickszz (one of you said Yahoo! isn't a secure login) I could be changing! Hotmail is a waste of time with their pitiful 2MB storage.
It is meant to be going up to 250MB soon.

Alex

Wasnt me ;)

I use Yahoo myself, and if I didnt think it was a safe platform for email I wouldnt use it

where do you get the invites from? ive got GMAIL and i havent got any invites

Originally posted by kittykat
where do you get the invites from? ive got GMAIL and i havent got any invites

They auto-magicly give you them.

Originally posted by amhudson119
Yup MSNers have had a few - I have 12 left (PM me if you want one). Can't say I use it regularly - however, after RPG or Lickszz (one of you said Yahoo! isn't a secure login) I could be changing! Hotmail is a waste of time with their pitiful 2MB storage.
It is meant to be going up to 250MB soon.

Alex

Sorry, whilst having another read through it was "genisiscouch".

Alex

No problem, apology accepted! :)

Originally posted by Bookey
They auto-magicly give you them.

Do they email them you? I wonder why i havent been given any! Is it because i only have 3 emails in there perhaps??

Originally posted by kittykat
Do they email them you? I wonder why i havent been given any! Is it because i only have 3 emails in there perhaps??

You log-in one day and they are magically there - I have 2 messages and i got 6 one day!

Anyways 11 are still going.

Alex

Originally posted by kittykat
Do they email them you? I wonder why i havent been given any! Is it because i only have 3 emails in there perhaps??

Underneath the "Archive" and "Report Spam" buttons, youll get a dark blue bar appearing, telling you how many invites youve got. Dont know how they decide when you get them, but Ive given 12 away on here in the last 3 days.

My invites have all gone now.

I've got about 10 invites if anyone wants them. Just e-mail me with a link to a good post you've made and they're all yours :P

(Seriously!)

I am not impressed with service at all.

I have been registered a while and sent out a couple of invites to people, I have never really used the account.

But guess what?


I am getting spam:loopy:

I know it goes into a separate folder but geez!, anyone else experienced this?

Originally posted by mikey
I am not impressed with service at all.

I have been registered a while and sent out a couple of invites to people, I have never really used the account.

But guess what?


I am getting spam:loopy:

I know it goes into a separate folder but geez!, anyone else experienced this?


Yes - 62 messages worth of spam!

Alex

Ps - I use Yahoo! as my main E-Mail address, I don't bother with Hotmail. - I got rid of that a/c and now just have 2 address' - 3 including the ISP one; and I don't bother with that one.

msn has now upped the storage limit to 250mb i like google dont seem to get much junk mail but im sure that will change in time:( :( :(

I wouldn't use Hotmail if you paid me.

I've got a free Gmail account and it send attachments so quick!

I've also got a hotmail email account which I use for MSN but even though it's now upgraded to 250mb storage it's still as painfully slow as ever!

Ahhh well, hooray for Gmail!!! :clap:

Sorry to ressurect something so old.

Firstly, I have 50 invites! Is that good?? Anyone want one?

And secondly, I'm LOVING g-mail, except that I sometimes have problems that go on and on an on for hours when trying to send messages - says to check my internest connection, and only seems to be bad when I'm at work.

Anyone else get this? It's the only thing that's frustrating me, I'm loving it the rest of time.

I love the functionality of my gmail account. The conversation view is very helpful. For example, I am looking for a job and when I get a reply, it will match the response to the email that I sent them. It saves a lot of time.

:thumbsup:

I've been using Gmail for about 8 months - it's fantastic. Almost 2.2Gb of storage and growing by the day. To be honest, I've not even noticed the adverts, which appear on the far right of the email - much like the search engine results page. There easy to ignore, and the process used to dynamically create the ads is completely automated.

I very much doubt any email service is truely private anymore.

Originally posted by sparklesista

I've also got a hotmail email account which I use for MSN
Sorry to quote an old post, but you don't need a hotmail address to use MSN. I use my gmail address with MSN.

Has anyone else noticed how slow hotmail has got over the past months. Anyway i love my gmail account, anyone want an invite for one pm me a email address to send it too.

If anyone wants a Gmail account just give us a shout cos I've got over 150 invites over 3 accounts free to give away to a good home!

Believe me when I say- GMAIL kicks everything else's ass.. its just too good to be true.