Not that I'm complaining, I like the atmpsphere, but the town centre just seems like a large town rather than a major city. This only occurred to me after arguing with a friend from the Derby area on whether to meet in Nottingham or Sheffield. If you judge it on the main shopping district, Nottingham seems huge in comparison, yet is much smaller. Is there a reason why Sheffield has developed in this way? Or maybe it's just that I've grown into it? Only that it took us nearly 25 minutes to walk across Nottingham centre, and I reckon it'd take me 5 or 10 in Sheffield.

- Lack of indoor shopping centre
- Very spread out (Fargate, The Moor, Castlegate etc)
- Car's can't get near the centre, so it doesn't have the 'busy city' feel
- Lack of variety of big chain stores; i.e No River Island, House of Fraser, Littlewoods

I think the massing and scale of city centre buildings in Sheffield contributes a great deal to this feeling. In general, the buildings just seem far smaller in Sheffield than in other major cities - you can sense it as soon as you leave the train station in Manchester, Leeds or Liverpool, as grand old Victorian and Edwardian edifices tower above you. In Sheffield, they just don't. And for the most part, I don't think it's because Sheffield's equivalent buildings were bombed in the war, because looking at old photos of the city would suggest that it never had civic building on such a scale.

Until very recently, the top corner of Fargate where Orchard Square now stands - arguably the city's prime central junction directly facing the Town Hall - was occupied by tiny cottage-type buildings. Think about the imposing magnificence of Albert Square in Manchester or Castle Street in Liverpool where those cities' respective Town Halls stand, and you can sense the difference.

I would imagine this has much to do with the nature of Sheffield's industry and wealth during its development in the 18th and 19th centuries. The steel industry must just have been different! Anyone know why?

I think most of us probably acknowledge that Sheffield has many great qualities regardless. So continue to develop the city centre by all means - this is essential - but enjoy the homely feel and proximity to the countryside because it's these things that make the city unique.

Sheffield might be a city in the here and now, but way back in the mists of time it was a township with many outlying villages which form the suburban districts you see today. The castle was the centre of whole thing, but the roundheads pulled it down in the time of the English civil war.

The town grew into a city as the industrial revolution took hold. A large number of the buildings in the city centre looked (or still look) like cottages or houses because that's what they were as slum dwellings sprang up all around what is now the centre of town. Just look at the number of buildings that were once homes on say West Street or around Paradise Sqaure.

Sheffield still feels like a town in many ways because it's a fairly young city.

How does that compare to the histories of Birmingham or Manchester?

I think it's a matter of progress, and Sheffield folk just don't take too well to progress. How can we expect big name stores that most othjer cities take for granted, when every single bit of spare land has a market erected on it at various times of the year? We are just one big market town with small ideas. Take 'Coles Corner' - been no Cole Brothers there for ages, but people still call it coles' corner.
We have the Prospect of two large-scale buildings by the town hall... ..and nobody wants them. Imagine if Selfridges wanted to do what they did to Birmingham? There'd be complete uproar.
So, when other cities are making nice big aluminium disc-cladded deaprtment stores, we are making sure that nothing stands out and just repainting our former cottages in nice pastel shades.

The bullring at birmingham was redeveloped by the city, not by selfridges.
It was about 10 or 15 years in the planning, and before that Birminghams city centre was more parochial than Sheffields.

There are no large department stores in the centre of Sheffield anymore because most of them moved to Meadowhell when it opened (what, 15 years ago?).

Why should something be renamed because of changes around it. The Walkley Barracks no longer houses soldiers, but the name is historical. Progress does not mean going around renaming things.

One thing I would like to comment on is the gradient of many streets in the centre of Sheffield. If Sheffield city centre was flat im sure it would be a different ball game altogether.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
Not that I'm complaining, I like the atmpsphere, but the town centre just seems like a large town rather than a major city. This only occurred to me after arguing with a friend from the Derby area on whether to meet in Nottingham or Sheffield. If you judge it on the main shopping district, Nottingham seems huge in comparison, yet is much smaller. Is there a reason why Sheffield has developed in this way? Or maybe it's just that I've grown into it? Only that it took us nearly 25 minutes to walk across Nottingham centre, and I reckon it'd take me 5 or 10 in Sheffield.

What a strange thing to notice!

I have lived here all of my life and this odd thought has never even entered my head. You've got me thinking now: so much so that the next time I am walking around the city centre, I will look at it from a different angle.

Originally posted by Sam Miguel
What a strange thing to notice!

I have lived here all of my life and this odd thought has never even entered my head. You've got me thinking now: so much so that the next time I am walking around the city centre, I will look at it from a different angle.

Lol, yes, well it occurred to me after said argument over where to meet, and I was thinking which place we would have more things to do in...of course I was also trying to persuade my friend to come here because I'm fed up of paying the extortionate train fare there! (£12).

it's not a matter of renaming things - it's a matter of progress. Sheffield hates new things and takes decades to get used to them. We didnt want Meadowhall, we didnt want the tram, we didnt want Ponds Forge and we certainly don't want a plush hotel. instead, we wanted to keep kelvin(?) and we listed park hill to ensure the same didnt happen.!I realise that Selfridges didnt redevelop B'ham, but they had to get planning for that building, and the City Council agreed. imagine how Sheffield would react to such an idea? a nice modern building next to one of the oldest churches in the central zone? totally uminaginable here. I cant really see any difference in Sheffield, and say, Nuneaton...

Originally posted by rickmiles85
One thing I would like to comment on is the gradient of many streets in the centre of Sheffield. If Sheffield city centre was flat im sure it would be a different ball game altogether.

That's actually probably a very good point - not exactly builders paradise are we :)

Originally posted by richynomates
I think it's a matter of progress, and Sheffield folk just don't take too well to progress. How can we expect big name stores that most othjer cities take for granted, when every single bit of spare land has a market erected on it at various times of the year? We are just one big market town with small ideas. Take 'Coles Corner' - been no Cole Brothers there for ages, but people still call it coles' corner.
We have the Prospect of two large-scale buildings by the town hall... ..and nobody wants them. Imagine if Selfridges wanted to do what they did to Birmingham? There'd be complete uproar.
So, when other cities are making nice big aluminium disc-cladded deaprtment stores, we are making sure that nothing stands out and just repainting our former cottages in nice pastel shades.

Nothing stands out? What about the NCPM - what other city has a building that looks like a group of kettles? :)

Right, to add to the conversation. I went to Manchester yesterday for a drink with a mate and bought a couple of things. Unfortunately it really opened my eyes to how bad Sheffield really is. I suppose ive been very blinkered. I knew it was bad but yesterday really gave me an insight into how bad it is. Manchester has so many more things. The shopping area's seem hugh. To compare it to Sheffield, it feels like the distance from the bottom of the moor right up to the top of fargate but with 500 metres either side of the main strip worth of shops and add another 3 indoor shopping centres onto that and then you'll start getting close. I doubt this new retail quarter will do much good in comparing to places like manchester and birmingham. We need something much much bigger. Im talking about a Bullring sized development to co-exist along side the new retail quarter to have any impact of other shopping destinations. Recently I heard or read that a company was redeveloping the moor. Id say stuff that. Bulldoze it all down (excluding maybe atkinsons) and plant a hugh shopping centre on it. One thing I would like to stress, they need more flagship stores. Not Necessarily places like Selfridges because I personally think its a rebranded Debenhams more every bodys cup of tea for instance House of Frazer to add some variety with Cole Brothers and Atkinsons. A larger Marks n Sparks (but Marks and Sparks is the icon of the old Sheffield on Fargate). A much much larger Next Store, River Island and more designer or specialised shops (whichever would choose to locate here! hehe :) ) Suggestions..Comments..

I don't think it should be knocked down and an indoor shopping centre built on it! I really can't stand them, articficial light and you just feel trapped.

I can't say I like Meadowhall (honest), but I end up going there as the choice of shops is so much better. I can pop into town and go to everywhere I want to look within about 10 minutes. I dunno, the centre seems quite small yet at the same time us very spread out. I think it's as someone mentioned before, the more popular shops are attracted to Meadowhall.

On another note, I always say I'm popping into town rather than "the city"..

I dont think anyone says 'I'm just popping down the city'! :D

In Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham they all say "Just nipping into town."

Anyhow, I like Sheffield to have that small town feel. Its a lot less intimidating than some of the other cities mentioned.

Agreed. It has a more 'personal' feel. In other, larger cities, everybody is a bit faceless as they rush around. Sheffield has a good character, and I think the 'townish' feeling is part of that.

We shouldnt want loads of malls all over the place, or else it'll end up looking like all the other cities.

Big name shops alone do not make for a nice city...

Originally posted by jackthedog
Agreed. It has a more 'personal' feel. In other, larger cities, everybody is a bit faceless as they rush around. Sheffield has a good character, and I think the 'townish' feeling is part of that.

One disadvantage? Some days I can't get anything done because I bump into so many people I know! Well it may be an advantage, depends how you look at it!

Originally posted by noseyrosie
One disadvantage? Some days I can't get anything done because I bump into so many people I know! Well it may be an advantage, depends how you look at it!

You've only got yourself to blame. It serves you right for having such charisma and popularity... :)

Originally posted by richynomates
I think it's a matter of progress, and Sheffield folk just don't take too well to progress. How can we expect big name stores that most othjer cities take for granted, when every single bit of spare land has a market erected on it at various times of the year? We are just one big market town with small ideas. Take 'Coles Corner' - been no Cole Brothers there for ages, but people still call it coles' corner.
We have the Prospect of two large-scale buildings by the town hall... ..and nobody wants them. Imagine if Selfridges wanted to do what they did to Birmingham? There'd be complete uproar.
So, when other cities are making nice big aluminium disc-cladded deaprtment stores, we are making sure that nothing stands out and just repainting our former cottages in nice pastel shades.

Totally agree, even I call “coles corner” just that & I cant even remember there being a coles there! The thing with Sheffield is that nearly all the buildings in the city centre are listed buildings and can’t be destroyed. Many wont agree but I dint think that the egg boxes should have been pulled down. Infact I think I read somewhere that Sheffield has more listed buildings than any other city.


Originally posted by richynomates
it's not a matter of renaming things - it's a matter of progress. Sheffield hates new things and takes decades to get used to them. We didnt want Meadowhall, we didnt want the tram, we didnt want Ponds Forge and we certainly don't want a plush hotel. instead, we wanted to keep kelvin(?) and we listed park hill to ensure the same didnt happen.!I realise that Selfridges didnt redevelop B'ham, but they had to get planning for that building, and the City Council agreed. imagine how Sheffield would react to such an idea? a nice modern building next to one of the oldest churches in the central zone? totally uminaginable here. I cant really see any difference in Sheffield, and say, Nuneaton...

Can’t say I mind murderhelll & don’t mind the super tram & I so cried when they pulled Kelvin flats down. I’d so kick off if SCC agreed to building next an old building. The thing with ppl in shef is that they are very proud of their city (I certainly am) and the history behind it. I want to keep Sheffield the way it is for my kids. I’m proud that Sheffield made steel, I’m proud that Sheffield is the greenest city in the UK (by greenest I mean the most green space, parks, woodland area etc) and that Sheffield has more mature trees than people. Sheffield is my heritage, my history, and I like it the way it is.

Originally posted by rickmiles85
Right, to add to the conversation. I went to Manchester yesterday for a drink with a mate and bought a couple of things. Unfortunately it really opened my eyes to how bad Sheffield really is. I suppose i've been very blinkered. I knew it was bad but yesterday really gave me an insight into how bad it is. Manchester has so many more things. The shopping area's seem hugh. To compare it to Sheffield, it feels like the distance from the bottom of the moor right up to the top of fargate but with 500 metres either side of the main strip worth of shops and add another 3 indoor shopping centres onto that and then you'll start getting close. I doubt this new retail quarter will do much good in comparing to places like manchester and birmingham. We need something much much bigger. Im talking about a Bullring sized development to co-exist along side the new retail quarter to have any impact of other shopping destinations. Recently I heard or read that a company was redeveloping the moor. Id say stuff that. Bulldoze it all down (excluding maybe atkinsons) and plant a hugh shopping centre on it. One thing I would like to stress, they need more flagship stores. Not Necessarily places like Selfridges because I personally think its a rebranded Debenhams more every bodys cup of tea for instance House of Frazer to add some variety with Cole Brothers and Atkinsons. A larger Marks n Sparks (but Marks and Sparks is the icon of the old Sheffield on Fargate). A much much larger Next Store, River Island and more designer or specialised shops (whichever would choose to locate here! hehe :) ) Suggestions..Comments..

I don’t think this would be a good idea at all! I went shopping to Leeds once, I hated it, there were far too many places to go, you jumped from under cover centre to under cover centre, (if I want under cover I’ll go to murderhell) and its not what we want from a city centre. When I was a little girl my mum used to take me to town and everywhere we went (apart from castle markets) were out in open air. This it’s what you want it to be like when you go in to a city centre shopping area. Many places I have been shopping, Nottingham, Leeds, Bristol, Manchester, Doncaster, Barnsley, Newcastle to name a few all have city centre undercover areas, Sheffield is one of the only places I’ve been that doesn’t have one in the city centre and that’s what makes it unique, It’s a traditional open air city centre. Also you talk about you want house of frazer, M&S, Atkinsons & more designer/specialist shops, well if you want that then go to murderhell, I want veriatey, different original shops, all the designer stores sell all the same stuff, I can go to town & then go to murderhell & they’ll sell the same stuff….now what the point in that. Oh and bigger is not always better & all that!

Originally posted by SaxonLeigh
Infact I think I read somewhere that Sheffield has more listed buildings than any other city.

I think it's actually Liverpool that has more listed buildings than any city outside London. I've seen this quoted many times, but I have no figures to support it I'm afraid!

I do find it hard to believe that 'most' of Sheffield's central buildings are listed though, as for the most part they're pretty unremarkable. That's not to say that the city doesn't have its own unique charm though, as others have said.

"I don’t think this would be a good idea at all! I went shopping to Leeds once, I hated it, there were far too many places to go, you jumped from under cover centre to under cover centre, (if I want under cover I’ll go to murderhell) and its not what we want from a city centre"

Fair point. But I disagree with calling central city shopping centre "meadowhall". Meadowhall is shopping on a large scale. I dont know about you but my idea of shopping isnt gregs pies, give blood charity shops and some pound stretcher. There is a totally different feel of being in a city centre than in meadowhall whether you are indoor or outdoors. Im sure you are like me and want some choice and variety without going to meadowhall. I certainly cant see this new retail quarter giving us (Sheffield City Centre) that many more shops than it already has. Maybe 20 to 40. To increase the variety either totally rebuild the moor (if not a undercover shopping centre) and remove all the **** that exists down there and make it look more appealing and welcoming!

Another thing too. On a recent study Meadowhall appear 20th in the country on shopping places...and meadowhall has most things you could ever want. BUT just think how far Sheffield has to climb up this ladder to get past meadowhall and rivavling other cities. ..... Worrying..

Here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1160704,00.html)

Another point of view is that Sheffield was developed by "Little Mesters" who by and large worked alone, there were very few "big" industrial concerns in Sheffield pre 1850 and the nature of the Cutlery industry meant it was mostly manned by local people from families who had been here for generations and the Cutlers Company made it into a virtual Closed Shop so outsiders had difficulty getting established here; and I think that mentality still remains in "the biggest village in England"

In Manc and Leeds the buildings are so tall - they remind me of London, you can walk down busy streets and only see a strip of sky above you, towering buildings either side. In Sheffield, because of its different architechure and hilly landscape, you can always see into the distance - to the hills that surround the city, and I think this makes it seem less oppressive than some other major cities. Perhaps contributes to the un-city-like feel???

The moor is a mess..hell yeah.... Does anyone know if the moor is going to be redeveloped?? If it is surely all the crap shops down there will have to close.. Lets hope so..

Originally posted by Sony
The moor is a mess..hell yeah.... Does anyone know if the moor is going to be redeveloped?? If it is surely all the crap shops down there will have to close.. Lets hope so..

Yes its being redeveloped! Thank god! Here are some preliminary plans...

Moor Plans (http://www.themoorfeedback.co.uk/html/masterplan.htm)

...where you can download a pdf showing the plans :thumbsup:

cheers for that- seems like we're in for a long wait though..

Originally posted by Sony
cheers for that- seems like we're in for a long wait though..

I know! 2013! I think we should blow the moor up! Do it on a sunday (tell people to keep away) and abliterate it! Then we can start from scratch again without going through all the consultation and other crappy stages! Im probably talking out of my backside because I would be the first to admit I know nothing about planning and regs but why does it always seem like Sheffield taking far longer in getting something done than manchester? :confused: With us being in yorkshire, does that automatically add another 2 stages of planning onto it? :-S

its just ridiculous.... I love this city but its in desperate need of improvements.... The city centre is atrocious!! I wonder what tourists or even people from other cities in the uk think of it?? I dread to think!!

Originally posted by Sony
its just ridiculous.... I love this city but its in desperate need of improvements.... The city centre is atrocious!! I wonder what tourists or even people from other cities in the uk think of it?? I dread to think!!

Everyone I have brought into the city centre, visiting from as far afield as Stoke Newington and Japan, has commented how much they liked it.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Everyone I have brought into the city centre, visiting from as far afield as Stoke Newington and Japan, has commented how much they liked it.

People who come here like it, mainly because it was not like they were expecting.

But, not enough is being done to entice people here of their own accord. Negative news stories, such as the Ikea fiasco do nothing to reinforce it.

I think two of the things that help determine whether a place feels like a city or a town are the width of the pedestrian areas and the number of alternative routes pedestrians can follow to get from A to B. London is obviously a huge city but the relatively narrow streets make it feel like a city because thousands of people are squeezed into relatively small strips of land. Leeds city centre (and particularly the network of streets and arcades between Boar Lane, Briggate, The Headrow and Park Row) funnel people in a similar way. York isn't a large city but it feels very busy because many of the streets are very narrow. In those cities the compact nature of the centre also makes it difficult to find short cuts or alternative routes so most people tend to take the same routes along the same streets, making the city seem busy.

Sheffield city centre is much more spread out than Leeds city centre so if some people who "go into town" only go from the market to Fargate and some only go from The Moor to Fargate the only place where they will meet will be Fargate. Furthermore, two of Sheffield's main shopping areas (Fargate and The Moor) are very wide so people aren't being funnelled into spaces as much. Add in the multiple routes that people can take to get from A to B in Sheffield (if you want to get from the railway station to the Cathedral or The Moor you've got a few routes to choose from) and you have a city that doesn't feel as claustrophobic as and doesn't seem as busy as some other cities.

I'm not sure why Manchester seems to be the exception to this. The city centre is huge (just think of how long it takes to walk from Piccadilly station to Victoria station or Deansgate), St. Ann's Square and the part of Market Street beside the Arndale Centre are very wide and Piccadilly Gardens is a huge space with numerous routes across it but Manchester always feels very busy. I think it is because there are key parts of the city centre where people are funnelled into or stand waiting to cross a busy road in smaller spaces such as the walking route from Piccadilly station to Piccadilly Gardens or the top part of Market Street near the tram stop.

Originally posted by noseyrosie
Not that I'm complaining, I like the atmpsphere, but the town centre just seems like a large town rather than a major city. This only occurred to me after arguing with a friend from the Derby area on whether to meet in Nottingham or Sheffield. If you judge it on the main shopping district, Nottingham seems huge in comparison, yet is much smaller. Is there a reason why Sheffield has developed in this way? Or maybe it's just that I've grown into it? Only that it took us nearly 25 minutes to walk across Nottingham centre, and I reckon it'd take me 5 or 10 in Sheffield.
For the sake of argument, it would also take you 25 minutes to walk from moorfoot to Castle market. Extra 5 minutes or so for division St.

Originally posted by rickmiles85:
One thing I would like to comment on is the gradient of many streets in the centre of Sheffield. If Sheffield city centre was flat im sure it would be a different ball game altogether.

My thoughts exactly, as to why Sheffield doesn't feel like other big cities of similiar size's.

We are built smack bang in the middle of seven hills after all.

In flat cities such as Nottingham and Leeds you can see the cities expanding out from all directions from the end of each city street which gives the illusion you are in a sprawling city.

However in Sheffield because of the city being spread out over many different levels, you can never see the the majority of the city landscape branching out at the end of the city streets.

Some of the city centre streets looks like the city just ends at the bottom of it, where the adjoining streets dip down deeply all you can see is sky and the peaks in the distance.

If Sheffield was flat I believe the skyline and height of the buildings would seem much higher than people percieve it to be now.

To appreciate the true size of Sheffield it has to be seen from high above the city, the views from Park Hill whilst descending down on the tram are truly stunning. The city centre looks everybit as impressive as Leeds and Nottingham when viewed from this angle.

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
My thoughts exactly, as to why Sheffield doesn't feel like other big cities of similiar size's.

We are built smack bang in the middle of seven hills after all.

In flat cities such as Nottingham and Leeds you can see the cities expanding out from all directions from the end of each city street which gives the illusion you are in a sprawling city.

However in Sheffield because of the city being spread out over many different levels, you can never see the the majority of the city landscape branching out at the end of the city streets.

Some of the city centre streets looks like the city just ends at the bottom of it, where the adjoining streets dip down deeply all you can see is sky and the peaks in the distance.

If Sheffield was flat I believe the skyline and height of the buildings would seem much higher than people percieve it to be now.

To appreciate the true size of Sheffield it has to be seen from high above the city, the views from Park Hill whilst descending down on the tram are truly stunning. The city centre looks everybit as impressive as Leeds and Nottingham when viewed from this angle.

Totally agree with you,a friend of mine used to have a flat on Hyde Park the first time i went round the night time views of the city centre were great.

its all a question of history, sheffield has always been hampered by its positioning, dont get me wrong its great have the peak park on our doorsteps but it has constricted sheffield and more importantly sheffields trade routes with Manchester and the West. The woodhead pass is terrible and where as most other major cities have good links north south east and west, sheffield is resticted both in terms of growth and available development land do to the closeness of the green belt on one of it sides.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by richynomates
[B]. instead, we wanted to keep kelvin(?) and we listed park hill to ensure the same didnt happen.!

My sister lived on the Kelvin flats in the 80s and I lived next to it on the Langsett Estate for 20 years - we all hated it and knew it was a slum

When you say 'we wanted to keep Kelvin and Park Hill do you mean the Council officers? People who generally wern't born in Sheffield and certainly didn't live in them.

The decisions re planning are taken by Council officers, not ordinary Sheffielders

Keep Kelvin my Ar*e!!

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't City status basically dependant on whether or not you have a cathedral. If this is indeed the case then size of city centre isn't something that makes it a city. York is a small centre because of the street layout. Its no bad thing. Would you rather it takes 30 mins to walk to the other side?? Thats something I quite like about Sheffield, despite its overall size it isn't as daunting a city centre as say Manchester or Leeds.

Originally posted by wibbles
Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't City status basically dependant on whether or not you have a cathedral.

I think it used to be. Now, it has to be decreed upon the town. There was a race a couple of years ago between Preston and Bolton to gain city status. Preston won. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1872505.stm)

No indoor shopping centres please, I need sky.

Always been very loyal to Sheffield, and I still think it is a great place to live, but probably not a great place to shop or a great place to visit.

Was embarrassed recently when some friend’s parents visited Sheffield and I could suggest very little for them to do. (Kelham Island, theatres, going into Derbyshire.)

I bet Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham all have tourist information centres. We have a magazine rack in the Winter Gardens.

Even Rotherham has a tourist information centre!

Originally posted by Andy
I bet Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham all have tourist information centres. We have a magazine rack in the Winter Gardens.

Even Rotherham has a tourist information centre!
We used to have one, first by the 'egg box' after that in what used to be the old 'independant bookshop' nearby. Sad if a city like Sheffield has no longer got one - what - no visitors?:loopy:

Originally posted by alchresearch
I think it used to be. Now, it has to be decreed upon the town. There was a race a couple of years ago between Preston and Bolton to gain city status. Preston won. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1872505.stm)
Yes I understand it used to be 'cathedral' for city status. Now I think you apply to central government in the hope of getting it.
should have read your link Alch. - sorry, rambling on...

Originally posted by rickmiles85
One thing I would like to comment on is the gradient of many streets in the centre of Sheffield. If Sheffield city centre was flat im sure it would be a different ball game altogether.
I can't think of a hilly street in the city centre apart from the side of the cathedral! and thats about a hundred metres!
Walkley, High Storrs (out of town) well O.K...
Or is it just me:confused:

Originally posted by draggletail
We used to have one, first by the 'egg box' after that in what used to be the old 'independant bookshop' nearby. Sad if a city like Sheffield has no longer got one - what - no visitors?:loopy:


Is this true?? There's no tourist information office in Sheffield? I don't know cos I don't live there any more, but if so that is appalling.

Originally posted by draggletail
I can't think of a hilly street in the city centre apart from the side of the cathedral! and thats about a hundred metres!
Walkley, High Storrs (out of town) well O.K...
Or is it just me:confused:
Where do you start. We're not talking mountains, just non-flat thoroughfares. Yes there's the ones behind the cathedral, there's also the hill from the station to novotel, most roads off west street to trippet lane, division street to charter square isn't exactly level, as are fargate, pinstone street, barkers pool, castlegate, high street and the moor. not massive gradients, but they do make a difference.
in fact - i can't think of many streets that are level - suppose surrey street is the flattest for longest?

Originally posted by Damon
Is this true?? There's no tourist information office in Sheffield? I don't know cos I don't live there any more, but if so that is appalling.

It used to be on the corner oposite the peace gardens, but that building has been bought by Starbucks now.

To be honest, sheffield city centre isn't really a tourist hotspot. There isn't anything to do or see here. The Peak district is our main attraction.

Originally posted by ptigga
It used to be on the corner oposite the peace gardens, but that building has been bought by Starbucks now.

To be honest, sheffield city centre isn't really a tourist hotspot. There isn't anything to do or see here. The Peak district is our main attraction.

Well yeah, but there are always visitors, and there are things on offer in the city. You need somewhere central for people to go and find out about stuff - after all, there are several galleries, 2 great theatres, a whole load of countryside, things like Magna, big music venues... etc. Tourist info offices usually offer centralised booking facilities for hotels and guest houses, and information about the whole region, not just the city centre.

It's a vicious circle; if there's no tourist info office, visitors will find it difficult to find out what there is to do. They'll decide that Sheffield has nothing to offer, they'll tell others, there'll be fewer visitors, and there'll be less and less justification for a tourist info office.

I would have thought that any serious marketing plan for Sheffield would include the provision of such facilities. After all, I remember the tourist info office being by the Peace Gardens through the seventies and eighties, and believe me, there's a lot more to see and do in Sheffield now than there was then.

There's a temporary tourist information centre in the Winter Gardens, but it's little more than a table and chairs, and is next to useless.

I asked for some specific leaflets, but it looks like much of the leaflets are in boxes they haven't got access to, as they have very limited display space. :loopy:

They did say there was going to be a new centre opening up, but didn't say where or when.

what Sheffield needs to do is:

!: get the "Covent Garden" plan that was knocked-back by the council approved. The police were in favour of it and it would have completely rejuvinated the area around the Leadmill and provided a big area near to the Station,

2: Invest more money into the local shop runs. Like South Road and Crookes. Get those bordered up shops occupied. Make it a large town centre with still the village atmosphere of localities.

3: get big stores. We miss Redgates. there are no major stors of any size in Sheffield. Birmingham has a 4 floor HMV.

for the council to sack half the staff who sit on their arses with a job for life and have no drive, ability or foreward thinking and get young people into the planning areas. People who have lived in dufferent places.

Originally posted by robbie
what Sheffield needs to do is:

!: get the "Covent Garden" plan that was knocked-back by the council approved. The police were in favour of it and it would have completely rejuvinated the area around the Leadmill and provided a big area near to the Station,

2: Invest more money into the local shop runs. Like South Road and Crookes. Get those bordered up shops occupied. Make it a large town centre with still the village atmosphere of localities.

3: get big stores. We miss Redgates. there are no major stors of any size in Sheffield. Birmingham has a 4 floor HMV.

for the council to sack half the staff who sit on their arses with a job for life and have no drive, ability or foreward thinking and get young people into the planning areas. People who have lived in dufferent places.

Definately!!! But that won't happen for a few yrs... Does any one know if that retail quarter really bring more quality shops to Sheffield?? or will Sheffield always be a row of boring pound shops, saver shops and the likes..

Originally posted by robbie
what Sheffield needs to do is:

!: get the "Covent Garden" plan that was knocked-back by the council approved. The police were in favour of it and it would have completely rejuvinated the area around the Leadmill and provided a big area near to the Station,


Whats is this?

a while back (1-2 years ago??) private investors wanted to turn the area down by the Leadmill into a Covent Garden type square with coffee bars , bistros, bars etc with a continental theme. There was a 2 page article in the Star at the time. The police were in favour. In fact everyone was in favour accept for our wonderful council who blocked it and the investors went off to rejuvinate another city (I think)

great news... according to this article in the star...

An application for planning permission for the retail quarter has been delayed and is now expected early next year.
The latest timetable envisages demolition of the Wellington Street fire station and surrounding properties at the end of 2006.

Once again, sheffield lagging behind...

Argh it makes me want to scream!

Why's it take so long to get anything done in Sheffield?!

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
Argh it makes me want to scream!

Why's it take so long to get anything done in Sheffield?!

I just don't know... It's as if people don't want to see Sheffield change... I mean just how long are we going to have to wait???????????

Is the work on castlegate going to start?? If so when??

Originally posted by robbie
a while back (1-2 years ago??) private investors wanted to turn the area down by the Leadmill into a Covent Garden type square with coffee bars , bistros, bars etc with a continental theme. There was a 2 page article in the Star at the time. The police were in favour. In fact everyone was in favour accept for our wonderful council who blocked it and the investors went off to rejuvinate another city (I think)

This sounds absolutely fantastic - just exactly what Sheffield has been crying out for for years!

Why on earth did the council reject it?!!

Or is that the council's job as it sees it - to prevent ANYTHING changing EVER?

Originally posted by dinp
- Lack of indoor shopping centre
- Very spread out (Fargate, The Moor, Castlegate etc)
- Car's can't get near the centre, so it doesn't have the 'busy city' feel
- Lack of variety of big chain stores; i.e No River Island, House of Fraser, Littlewoods Shopping, Is that all you women think about? Sheffield is what is is, not Leeds , London or Manchester, they are different places.

Dragon

Ikea less

For me the main reason is that from almost everywhere, there is a view to distant hills - some distant suburbs, others moorland. So you feel you are in a small village. By contrast all the other main city centres are flat. You feel enclosed...

My ancillary question is - why, given one of the most beautiful physical locations of any major city - is so much of sheff so ugly?

Dont know how many places youve been Tom Ford but all big Cities have ugly places ,some more than others. It does seem that people who move into the place are more bothered by the looks rather than the important factor ,which according to my wife (who is from Rutland) are the people and the warm sense of humour.


Dragon

Originally posted by Ravenger:

There's a temporary tourist information centre in the Winter Gardens, but it's little more than a table and chairs, and is next to useless.

I asked for some specific leaflets, but it looks like much of the leaflets are in boxes they haven't got access to, as they have very limited display space.

They did say there was going to be a new centre opening up, but didn't say where or when.

Plans have just been announced by the council to expand the Sheffield’s Visitor Information Centre (or should we say table and 2 chairs) so that it now takes up more room within the Winter Garden.

Sheffield’s Visitor Information Centre is now preparing to take over one of the shop units and will be up and running in the next few weeks.

http://sccplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/press/news/release.asp?akey=2192

Which shop unit are they taking over? I thought they were all occupied in the Winter Gardens.

What a cheek according to this chap in Liverpool ( skyscraper.com):

I'm not keen on sheffield, I've been several times and two friends went to uni there. The student drinking scene seemed pretty good and some of the suburbs towards the peaks have great housing but the centre is grim and the working class areas look ready to crumble away.

Sheffield doesn't have anything unique that may lift the gloom.

Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Newcastle and Glasgow are all regional centres and have levered and manipulated that, Liverpool and Bristol are ports with bags of heritage, architecture and creative people - they've never relied on heavy industry.

Sheffield existed solely for manufacture and was once well placed to dominate certain markets. This is no longer the case and I can't see what will replace it apart from Thatchers golden dream of shopworkers on a minimum wage buying cinema tickets off other people on a minmum wage who in turn buy fast food off other people on a minimum wage.

And all this baloney about the 4th biggest city......it feels and looks like a bloated Warrington, Birkenhead or Preston. Sheffield - like Leeds - has benefitted from very generous boundries in that sense. To compare it to Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle etc is very misplaced and skewed by misleading statistics.

Originally posted by Sony
What a cheek according to this chap in Liverpool ( skyscraper.com):

I'm not keen on sheffield, I've been several times and two friends went to uni there. The student drinking scene seemed pretty good and some of the suburbs towards the peaks have great housing but the centre is grim and the working class areas look ready to crumble away.

Sheffield doesn't have anything unique that may lift the gloom.

Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Newcastle and Glasgow are all regional centres and have levered and manipulated that, Liverpool and Bristol are ports with bags of heritage, architecture and creative people - they've never relied on heavy industry.

Sheffield existed solely for manufacture and was once well placed to dominate certain markets. This is no longer the case and I can't see what will replace it apart from Thatchers golden dream of shopworkers on a minimum wage buying cinema tickets off other people on a minmum wage who in turn buy fast food off other people on a minimum wage.

And all this baloney about the 4th biggest city......it feels and looks like a bloated Warrington, Birkenhead or Preston. Sheffield - like Leeds - has benefitted from very generous boundries in that sense. To compare it to Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle etc is very misplaced and skewed by misleading statistics.

Well the guy didn't just post it out of thin air. It was posted in response to a thread you started called 'Sheffield - honest opinion'. Did you want honest opinions or not? :)

I'm not sure that Sheffield does feel like a town. Chesterfield, feels like a town (because it is) as does Derby because it's tiny. Sheffield feels like a city to me, just one that seems more spread-out and relaxed.

I rather like it like that, which is why I moved here. :)

I wouldn't say Sheffield feels or looks like a large town either! :loopy:

The guy is entitled to his opinions of course, although comparing Sheffield to a bloated version of Birkenhead is a little hard to stomach! :gag:

Originally posted by Andy
Which shop unit are they taking over? I thought they were all occupied in the Winter Gardens.

The Catcus shop moved out last week and there is a board stating the tourist info will be in there. Shame really as I used to but lots of plants from there.

I do think that Sheffield is strting to feel like a city lately.. Lets see what happens by 2009!!

Originally posted by Sony
I do think that Sheffield is strting to feel like a city lately.. Lets see what happens by 2009!!

That's because the roadworks by the train station and the rather odd lane arrangement on Arundel Gate by the Novotel are causing traffic jams :D

It could be the students though :D

just read the post from skyscraper website. The guy says that we shouldnt compare our city to places like leeds etc but before that he says that sheffield-LIKE LEEDS- has benefitted from generous boundries. What a spoon.

Originally posted by jazz
just read the post from skyscraper website. The guy says that we shouldnt compare our city to places like leeds etc but before that he says that sheffield-LIKE LEEDS- has benefitted from generous boundries. What a spoon.

Well the muppet is from Liverpool so what do you expect?!

I think Sheffield does feel like a city, but a very small city, certainly not a major city which it is, Newcastle and Nottingham feel bigger but we know their not.

Leeds and Manchester in comparison to Sheffield feel huge

To me Sheffield never feels bustling or vibrant, hopefully this will all change over the next few years when thousands more people will be living in the city centre along with loads more shops, bars, restaurants.

If Leeds can turn itself around in 10 years then Sheffield definitely can, we have loads more potential and creativity.

We are just in a uncomfortable transistion period at the moment in Sheffield, my biggest fear is where will the other cities be in 10 years too.

[i]We are just in a uncomfortable transistion period at the moment in Sheffield, my biggest fear is where will the other cities be in 10 years too. [/B]

Surely what will Leeds have in 10 years that Sheffield wont??
I mean Leeds has got a bril city centre, everything has practically been refurbished!! Apart from a few more flats that's all I can see...

Originally posted by Sony
Surely what will Leeds have in 10 years that Sheffield wont??
I mean Leeds has got a bril city centre, everything has practically been refurbished!! Apart from a few more flats that's all I can see...

Probably still 3 times more choice and diversity of shops, lifestyle,bars and restaurants of better quality than Sheffield has.

Hate to sound negative and appear selfish but I bet in 10 years Sheffield still hasnt got a decent gay scene to support the very large gay community in South Yorkshire who are currently pulled three ways between Manchester, Leeds and Nottingham.:suspect:

I've totally given up hope on the shop front since the papers said that it was likely that H&M will be taking a prominent place in Carmel House. Looks like the Moor is extending its low budget retail offerings one way, the markets the other - they'll soon meet at M&S, and kick them out for a Kwik Save Megacentre!!
No doubt the Council will be turning Muji down on the grounds of it favouring only one culture (Japan), Office shoeshop on the grounds that the name is misleading, and will also turn down Borders Bookshop on the grounds of elitism. To mimick Cllr Mike Pye's words - Sheffield folk don't need posh book shops!

Im living in melbourne at the moment, melbourne is probably a hell of a lot more famous to people who arent from australia as sheffield is to people who arent from england, if that makes sence ? So i expected this place to be really nice and clean before i got here but was surprised to see its dirtier than sheffield and even less fun to walk around, but one thing i think we should learn from melbourne is the ammount of shops it has, ive never been to leeds or manchester city centre but as so many of you have said they have so much more shops than us, i think the problem with sheffield though is where would such a huge shopping centre be placed and if there was one built would people complain about it all being indoors just like people complain about meadowhall ?

I think Tom---Fordo has a good point---you can always see hills,not far away and that gives a misleading impression of smallness.
Also ,Sheffield's geography ,in general is peculiar ,compared to a lot of places. We can't blame the Council for that anyway! However,I think over the years they have shilly-shallied and there's not much excuse for that because for about 40 years after the war we practically had a 1-party state in Sheffield so they could have planned long--term.
In fact ,I remember ,about 1950,seeing a scale model of what Sheffield was aiming at for the city centre, in the near future but I think only about half of it got done.
With the Blitz,it did make it more difficult to make an overall change as there were good buildings left dotted about amongst the ruins.
However,Sheffield Council have not helped matters over the years by being miseries in all kinds of ways.
Restrictions here,restrictions there.Also they've bowed to the Traffic Monster and that's why the centre of Sheffield seems like a village,sometimes, plonked in the middle of a traffic island.

I have read the whole of this thread, and agree with most people's points of view about the centre of sheffield. I strongly agree about the fact that sheffield centre has too many budget shops and not enough quality shops.
The pavements have improved considerably over the last five years, and the improvements to Arundel gate Eyre Street and Charter road are welcome. The whole town centre looks much better without all those white railings down the middle of all the main roads. I would like to see more litter bins.
I would say that right from my earliest memories of the town centre in the 70s there has always been lots of empty and boarded up shops, some which have been like that for years and years, areas looking like mini ghost towns. Today there are very few unused shops at all. You would have to argue that the supply of premises is in tune with demand of retailers.
It would be nice to have other nice little areas like Orchard Square, which has adapted and developed successfully over it's short life so far. It attracts some classier shops and the upstairs bits with the craft shops are a nice hidden touch.
I would rather the Manpower services commission building was in an outlying area of the city and the space or building lower floor was used for a small shopping centre with a walk through so that the bottom of London road is attached to town again.

Sheffields not a big city it's a big town/small city labelling it a big city is what is causing it to lag behind. It's not Sheffield people who are labelling it the fourth largest city they know it's not, it's the council who is playing around with the statistics and using them to their advantage. I've heard Sheffield being labelled the 4th 5th 6th and 7th largest city. London, Birmingham, Bristol, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool are all bigger cities than Sheffield and you don't need statistics to tell you that.

To put it simply Sheffield is fine for it's size the problem is the council who are trying to label it one of the biggest cities in the country when it's not. This then gives people the impression that Sheffiled is less developed compared to other cities of a similar or smaller size when in reality those cities are bigger than Sheffield.

Sheffield does not seem like a big city because it does not have many big built up urban areas!but it deffo is the 4th biggest city!just look at Amsterdam for comparison, it doesn’t have the big built up urban areas either but is the biggest city in Holland!I think over the next few years Sheffield will start to seem more like a big city because it is developing more build up urban areas!The Furnival gate area for example will have quite a few talls going up in the coming years!I think ShoxShota has got a bit of an anti Sheffield attitude!every post it seems is very anti Sheffield! Look mate just accept it is one of the biggest cities in the UK!I think the guy needs to get that huge chip off his shoulder and also get a life!

I really don't know how people can get so confused over what "city" actually means, or over the size of a place.

Sheffield has the 4th-highest population of all cities in England. That is indisputable, and no town has a higher population either. In terms of size, I don't know where it ranks, but I suspect very high indeed considering how much moorland and empty space falls within the city boundary.

Nothing about being a city has anything to do with size. Ely and Ripon are both cities, and I know villages that are about as big as either.

In terms of size, I don't know where it ranks,

Me neither, but Sheffield covers 362.38 km², which is comparison to the world's largest city (in area) Altamira, in Pará, Brazil at 159,696km², Sheffield is quite small!

I think its cos after meadowhall was built they never bothered developing the city much

Sheffield has the 4th-highest population of all cities in England. That is indisputable,

Wikipedia disputes it. It has Sheffield 6th in population at the last census.

Edit: 5th I mean, Glasgow isn't in England :blush:

Wikipedia disputes it. It has Sheffield 6th in population at the last census.

Edit: 5th I mean, Glasgow isn't in England :blush:

Not according to this Wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_districts_by_population#Over_300.2 C000
Sheffield is the 4th largest in England by population if you include London which the list on the link above doesn't have so it has Sheffield in 3rd place after Birmingham and Leeds.

Not that I'm complaining, I like the atmpsphere, but the town centre just seems like a large town rather than a major city. This only occurred to me after arguing with a friend from the Derby area on whether to meet in Nottingham or Sheffield. If you judge it on the main shopping district, Nottingham seems huge in comparison, yet is much smaller. Is there a reason why Sheffield has developed in this way? Or maybe it's just that I've grown into it? Only that it took us nearly 25 minutes to walk across Nottingham centre, and I reckon it'd take me 5 or 10 in Sheffield.

My wife and I have always referred to Sheffield as "the biggest village in England".

My wife and I have always referred to Sheffield as "the biggest village in England".Gosh, that's a new one, I've never heard that before. :hihi:

The biggest village in England is Kidlington, Oxfordshire. I used to work with this bird from there and that's what she said anyway.