Lets hope not, after the state they left the country in the last time.

Wow!

Mesmerising and innovative stuff.

Lets hope not, after the state they left the country in the last time.

Did you think all that up all by yourself, or did you engage the assistance of a fellow moron?:)

If they elect either Alastair Darling or the correct Miliband brother as leader they are in with a fighting chance in 2020.

Unlikely to put it mildly, Ed Milliband is an even bigger prat than David Cameron IMO.

Have you caught many? :D

Unlikely to put it mildly, Ed Milliband is an even bigger prat than David Cameron IMO.

Enjoying the present cuts are you?

Lets hope not, after the state they left the country in the last time.

They left it with less unemployment and less deficit and less inflation.

It is almost certain.

it's not like it's totally impossible for them to continually shoot themselves in the foot about it, and consequently rob themselves of any chance of governing again, but yes it is almost certain they will. It's not like any of the other parties have even got an operational majority for crying out loud. They have 255 plus MPs. The Tories are worrying where the votes are going to come from as much as them.

Lets hope not, after the state they left the country in the last time.

Never underestimate the short memories of the British people,even now they are almost level pegging with the coalition:loopy: just look at Sheffield,the voters deserve all they get.

If they elect either Alastair Darling or the correct Miliband brother as leader they are in with a fighting chance in 2020.
So is it down to leaders rather than policies these days?

Labour will never win another election simply because they don't exist any more. John Smith was the last leader of the Labour party. It died with him.

Labour was called Labour because, well, that's who they represented.

The modern successor to that party should be called the Corporateocrats or the Bankster Party.

Enjoying the present cuts are you?

Anyone who was enjoying the present cuts would be quite happy to have another Labour government leave us in another economic hole and force us to have another round of them.

They left it with less unemployment and less deficit and less inflation.


Meanwhile back on planet earth.

Labour had less unemployment because they employed an extra 600,000 in the public sector.

They left us the biggest deficit in our history and have fought every effort to get it under control.

They left us with Deflation and/or Stagflation which is even harder to get rid of and more damaging than Inflation.

Labour's economics were and still are the stuff of lalaland. Brown created a world of his own making. Let's not forget he thought he had saved the world after he bailed out the banks. Muppets the lot of them. Reckless, ignorant, incompetent muppets. If there is a God Labour will never, ever, ever get back in. Let's face it they only won last time by lying through their teeth and promising not to bankrupt the country like they did in 1979.

Meanwhile back on planet earth.

Labour had less unemployment because they employed an extra 600,000 in the public sector.

They left us the biggest deficit in our history and have fought every effort to get it under control.

They left us with Deflation and/or Stagflation which is even harder to get rid of and more damaging than Inflation.

Labour's economics were and still are the stuff of lalaland. Brown created a world of his own making. Let's not forget he thought he had saved the world after he bailed out the banks. Muppets the lot of them. Reckless, ignorant, incompetent muppets. If there is a God Labour will never, ever, ever get back in. Let's face it they only won last time by lying through their teeth and promising not to bankrupt the country like they did in 1979.


True,but you know some idiots will still vote for them.:loopy:

It is almost certain.

Is that a maybe, then?

Did you think all that up all by yourself, or did you engage the assistance of a fellow moron?:)

I don't recall you helping me at all.

They left it with less unemployment and less deficit and less inflation.

You forgot future.

Unfortunately most of the electorate see things so simplistically it's quite possible.

God forbid that they ever do, but common sense dictates that some time in the future NEW LIEbour will regain power, hopefully not in my lifetime.

Angel.

Lets hope not, after the state they left the country in the last time.

I seam to remember they had a good 15 years of boom.
The mistakes they made was

a) borrowing to much money when they didn't need to
b) saving instead of spending in the boom time, just so they had some money when the down turn did arrive
c) Didn't get the work-shy into work when jobs were plentiful.

I seam to remember they had a good 15 years of boom.
The mistakes they made was

a) borrowing to much money when they didn't need to
b) saving instead of spending in the boom time, just so they had some money when the down turn did arrive
c) Didn't get the work-shy into work when jobs were plentiful.

thats only the half of it,too numerous to go into detail,basically they haven't clue

I seam to remember they had a good 15 years of boom.
The mistakes they made was

a) borrowing to much money when they didn't need to
b) saving instead of spending in the boom time, just so they had some money when the down turn did arrive
c) Didn't get the work-shy into work when jobs were plentiful.

d) Not teaching the kids how to spell correctly.

They left it with less unemployment and less deficit and less inflation.

But more than they inherited in 1997

Ideally none of the three parties would ever be elected again:roll:

As the great Morrissey once wrote: What difference does it make......

It makes none.......

We have a two party system chances are they will be back soon.

So is it down to leaders rather than policies these days?

Labour will never win another election simply because they don't exist any more. John Smith was the last leader of the Labour party. It died with him.

Labour was called Labour because, well, that's who they represented.

The modern successor to that party should be called the Corporateocrats or the Bankster Party.

I agree with your opinion re John Smith but surely all of 'em are in the bankers pockets, the Torys are blatantly milking the system for personal gain. Tony Blair killed Labour he was just a Tory under another name [NEW Labour]
Will we ever see a party who cares about the common man again ?? I doubt it......

Sadly I do think they'll be voted in again, personally I don't think any of the other main political parties are any better.

This sniping between labour fans v's conservative fans looks like a pathetically futile argument that merely feeds the rot that allows our crappy parliamentary 'representatives' to continue to serve nothing but their own interests.

Voting is a damage limitation exercise, you vote for the party you fear the least. I find the present 'coalition' terrifying.........

No, not a cat in hell's chance with that little boy 'leading' the party.

If Millibland is the best Labour have got then the cupboard is well and truly empty.

The coalition has an easy ride except for the workload in getting the country back on its feet after the chaos left by Blair and 'end to boom and bust' Brown.

Lets hope not, after the state they left the country in the last time.

How many usernames do you need? Snerk!!

Ah, good old Labour. The party that:

Went ahead with the Millennium Dome project despite warnings of it being a white elephant money pit.

Implemented anti terror laws that allowed innocent folks to be arrested and banged up without any evidence.

Led the country into a disastrous conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan on the trail of weapons of mass destruction.

Went ahead with implementing hated ID cards, allowing the cost to spiral out of control.

Allowed schools and hospitals to be build with private partnerships without even checking whether the spending was value for money. I know at least one school with Cisco bank-grade networking, at least ten times the cost and support of a perfectly adequate HP network.

To name but a few. I could probably list another half dozen.

Ah, good old Labour. The party that:

Went ahead with the Millennium Dome project despite warnings of it being a white elephant money pit.

Implemented anti terror laws that allowed innocent folks to be arrested and banged up without any evidence.

Led the country into a disastrous conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan on the trail of weapons of mass destruction.

Went ahead with implementing hated ID cards, allowing the cost to spiral out of control.

Allowed schools and hospitals to be build with private partnerships without even checking whether the spending was value for money. I know at least one school with Cisco bank-grade networking, at least ten times the cost and support of a perfectly adequate HP network.

To name but a few. I could probably list another half dozen.

OOoooo My back hurts from having to pick up your toys :hihi:

How many usernames do you need? Snerk!!

Please elaborate.

God forbid that they ever do, but common sense dictates that some time in the future NEW LIEbour will regain power, hopefully not in my lifetime.

Angel.

Unless you are in your 90`s or older it looks like you are going to be in for some disappoint in the coming years …….. Labour will be back, strangely I don’t think the same can be said about the Lib / Dems.

Malky

Enjoying the present cuts are you?

Meh, it's the Tories doing the cutting, I voted Liberal at the election.

Meh, it's the Tories doing the cutting, I voted Liberal at the election.

You voted for the government that is now running the country Rich :D

Well done, you played your part in a Tory victory. :hihi:

I agree with your opinion re John Smith but surely all of 'em are in the bankers pockets, the Torys are blatantly milking the system for personal gain. Tony Blair killed Labour he was just a Tory under another name [NEW Labour]
Will we ever see a party who cares about the common man again ?? I doubt it......How are they 'blatantly' doing that?

OOoooo My back hurts from having to pick up your toys :hihi:

Ah, is that the best you could come up with?

At least you had the decency not to deny all the facts in the post.

How are they 'blatantly' doing that?

They aren't doing anything for the electorate. For starters they are hell bent on destroying the NHS and handing contracts out to their mates.........
We KNOW the NHS is a money pit, but there is nothing better anywhere in the world.....all we have to do is fund it. We could do that by implementing a TORY TAX, any Tory supporter or party member should have to pay extra tax. They must be well off to even contemplate voting Tory.

Yes sell off the profitable bits of the NHS to their mates, stick the 'backhanders' in offshore accounts............Both Camerons AND Cleggs families are involved in that caper.

One question, why should obscenely rich men like Cameron and Clegg fight to be politicians........its certainly not to benefit us OR the country.
Those two have vast personal fortunes, they dont need the hassle of goverment, so why do they do it ????

They aren't doing anything for the electorate. For starters they are hell bent on destroying the NHS and handing contracts out to their mates.........
We KNOW the NHS is a money pit, but there is nothing better anywhere in the world.....all we have to do is fund it.


Maybe you're not aware of the state of the NHS in Wales?

The LABOUR Welsh Government has cut health spending by £400 million - a 6.5% cut - and 27% of people in Wales wait more than six weeks for diagnostic services, compared to 1% in England.

And then have a look at the big bit on Labour's PFI deals:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097448/15bn-lawyers-NHS-blunders-Avalanche-win-fee-claims-push-costs-13.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

£135 billion bill because these PFI initiatives cost four times their actual value.

Even SF's favourite The Guardian doesn't have much good to say on the waste:

Labour government 'ignored cheaper alternatives to PFI'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jan/18/labour-cheaper-alternatives-pfi

Enjoying the present cuts are you?

Are you in cookoo land?

Ah i get it,we borrow more money when were in dept!

Funnt really if someone suggested running their domestic affairs like that they would be shot down yet thats how some think the country whould be run that way :rolleyes:
Yes lets get Labour back in so we can go to bankcrupt then we can all wish we just had a few cuts,cuts which in many cases were just bloated unnessercary costs anyway.

Of course dont forget We will not only have the high fuel costs getting to work we have but Labour WILL introduce pay per mile too which for many will make going to work uneconomical.

It doesnt matter who gets in they will all have the same limited resourses,them who think different have something wrong with them.
Painful for some cuts might be but it could be alot worse and it would be under Labour afer all were in this mess after years of years of Labour when things were fruitful but the funds were grossly mismanaged.

Maybe you're not aware of the state of the NHS in Wales?

The LABOUR Welsh Government has cut health spending by £400 million - a 6.5% cut - and 27% of people in Wales wait more than six weeks for diagnostic services, compared to 1% in England.

And then have a look at the big bit on Labour's PFI deals:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097448/15bn-lawyers-NHS-blunders-Avalanche-win-fee-claims-push-costs-13.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

£135 billion bill because these PFI initiatives cost four times their actual value.

Even SF's favourite The Guardian doesn't have much good to say on the waste:

Labour government 'ignored cheaper alternatives to PFI'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jan/18/labour-cheaper-alternatives-pfi

Like I said we HAVE to fund it.....why waste money on wars etc. Health and education must come first. As for claims against the NHS.....a lot are bogus moneymaking scams and the NHS falls victim, but please, never privatise the NHS, the poor man will have no health care at all. First point of call in a USA hospital is the paydesk to get your card scanned....then they treat you. I dont trust the Torys, I didn't trust Blair either. Healthcare must be taken out of politics.

Like I said we HAVE to fund it.....why waste money on wars etc. Health and education must come first. As for claims against the NHS.....a lot are bogus moneymaking scams and the NHS falls victim, but please, never privatise the NHS, the poor man will have no health care at all. First point of call in a USA hospital is the paydesk to get your card scanned....then they treat you. I dont trust the Torys, I didn't trust Blair either. Healthcare must be taken out of politics.


The Cons hate the NHS, they oppose the very principles of it.
Look at their friends in the crackpot US Tea Party movement who despise Obama's health care plans with such venom.
The Cons would love us to move to a US style system, the only thing that stops them is public opinion, if Smarmy Dave had come clean with his Health service plans before the election, they would have got even fewer votes.
Hopefully it will contribute, with many other things to their downfall.

Meh, it's the Tories doing the cutting, I voted Liberal at the election.

All those floating voters that fell for cleggs messhia like presentation sadly voted for the conservatives ………… sadly that includes me ………. Oh the shame of it :blush: …….. never again. ……. Sorry dad and granddad.

Ah, is that the best you could come up with?



No, but thanks for asking

Yes lets get Labour back in so we can go to bankcrupt then we can all wish we just had a few cuts,cuts which in many cases were just bloated unnessercary costs anyway.


Spot on. They've been in denial for two years with regards to spending and are now only starting to admit they did things wrong.

Until they can show a bit of culpability for their actions only then will they begin to become an electoonable party.

But, saying that some on here would vote Labour regardless and still think Thatcher personally came up here and closed down the pits and took milk from children.

All those floating voters that fell for cleggs messhia like presentation sadly voted for the conservatives ………… sadly that includes me ………. Oh the shame of it :blush: …….. never again. ……. Sorry dad and granddad.

Why be sad? It's the first time I can remember that a vote for the Liberals hasn't been a wasted vote. They've never been capable of winning outright and have only ever aspired to hold the balance of power. You must have known that.
You got what you voted for.

The Cons hate the NHS, they oppose the very principles of it.
Look at their friends in the crackpot US Tea Party movement who despise Obama's health care plans with such venom.
The Cons would love us to move to a US style system, the only thing that stops them is public opinion, if Smarmy Dave had come clean with his Health service plans before the election, they would have got even fewer votes.
Hopefully it will contribute, with many other things to their downfall.

A hardcore in the Tea Party movement are no freinds of the British.

A hardcore in the Tea Party movement are no freinds of the British.

What makes you say that?

Spot on. They've been in denial for two years with regards to spending and are now only starting to admit they did things wrong.

Until they can show a bit of culpability for their actions only then will they begin to become an electoonable party.

But, saying that some on here would vote Labour regardless and still think Thatcher personally came up here and closed down the pits and took milk from children.

You are either young and immature or altzeimers is setting in....

The Cons hate the NHS, they oppose the very principles of it.
Look at their friends in the crackpot US Tea Party movement who despise Obama's health care plans with such venom.
The Cons would love us to move to a US style system, the only thing that stops them is public opinion, if Smarmy Dave had come clean with his Health service plans before the election, they would have got even fewer votes.
Hopefully it will contribute, with many other things to their downfall.

The Cons place no value on life itself......only their own miserable lives. They would let a man die to save a tenner. Remember their election pledge.........."The NHS will be safe in our hands"........Ha bloody Ha !!!!!

It is not "cool" to be a Tory, its lunacy.........:loopy:

You are either young and immature or altzeimers is setting in....

Since he accurately remembers the devastation of the early 80s being the result of forty years of suicidal policy, and doesn't blame the person who was in charge when it finally had to happen, it seems unlikely that either is true.

Since he accurately remembers the devastation of the early 80s being the result of forty years of suicidal policy, and doesn't blame the person who was in charge when it finally had to happen, it seems unlikely that either is true.



He must have been on drugs then!:loopy:

He must have been on drugs then!:loopy:

Being on drugs would be likely to make his memory less accurate; it clearly isn't.

Since he accurately remembers the devastation of the early 80s being the result of forty years of suicidal policy, and doesn't blame the person who was in charge when it finally had to happen, it seems unlikely that either is true.

Nah, he read about it on the 'net. The devastation the Torys caused is inexcusable. Thatcher should have been tried in court for Crimes against Humanity. Labour do make mistakes, Conservatives are malicious, greedy, machiavellian and try to make everything look like an accident when things go wrong. Ken Livingston is right in saying that Thatcher was clinically insane whilst in office...

Nah, he read about it on the 'net. The devastation the Torys caused is inexcusable.

The devastation was caused by four decades of mismanagement which culminated in our going bankrupt in the late 70s; it wasn't caused by the Government of the early 80s, they just got lumbered with the task of handling it as best they could.

Both parties were culpable on those grounds; both of them had been in power since the war and had plenty of chances to sort things out before it came to such a pass, but the longer you put things off the worse pain you're going to suffer when you have to do them anyway.

Did you think all that up all by yourself, or did you engage the assistance of a fellow moron?:)

Its thanks to the previous government that the 5.5 billion that had been set aside for everyones pensions has been spent (on what exactly we may never know). Try asking your local labour counsellor what they did with your pension funds and try to get an honest answer, you won't, thanks to Blair and Brown we are all well and truely scr*wed so we will all have to work longer for less, other than that they didn't do a bad job of it, incidentally I'm not a tory supporter either. I asked my counsellor and they couldn't give me an answer either yet 5.5 billion pounds has simply disappeared... oo its like the outer limits

You are the moron fella, tunnel vision effect :)

Nah, he read about it on the 'net. The devastation the Torys caused is inexcusable. Thatcher should have been tried in court for Crimes against Humanity. Labour do make mistakes, Conservatives are malicious, greedy, machiavellian and try to make everything look like an accident when things go wrong. Ken Livingston is right in saying that Thatcher was clinically insane whilst in office...

Whilst not a tory supporter I do have to disagree with you on this. After the mass strikes in the late 1970's which ground everything to a halt across the country which I remember well the voting public had simply had enough and they and voted in the tory's. They did bring stability and this cannot be denied, they also made some major mistakes too namely the poll tax which comes to mind however the thing that made me proud was the fact that Thatcher stood up to the Argies over the Falklands and that to me at the time and now is unforgettable. Despite no support from the EU and the USA she stuck to her guns and the fact the French were supplying the Argies with weapons (major egg on the faces of the French when they lost that one)! They also brought interest rates down, the RPI amongst other things which allowed people such as myself the luxury of being able to afford a mortgage which under the previous government was a total impossibility due to the insane interest rates.

At the end of the day I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could spit however I tend to view both good and bad about all parties but then again maybe you could explain what Labour did with the 5.5 billion pound pension pot hence the mess we are currently in with the pension crisis at present?

Answers on a postcard...

The Cons place no value on life itself......only their own miserable lives. They would let a man die to save a tenner. Remember their election pledge.........."The NHS will be safe in our hands"........Ha bloody Ha !!!!!

It is not "cool" to be a Tory, its lunacy.........:loopy:



It's the hard of thinking like you that keep Labour in power. You have the intellect of a football supporter. Facts are meaningless to you aren't they? So here's a few more for you to ignore:

The Conservatives rescued the country in 1979 after years of Socialist lunacy left the country broke and in debt. Labour had devalued the pound and gone cap in hand for a bailout from the IMF. Basic rate tax was 33%.

When Labour took over in 1997 the country owed nothing. After 13 years of Labour we owed £600,000,000,000.

Sheffield City Council has debts of £2.1bn racked up by years of Labour mismanagement and the city is still an economic basket case.

The real loons are the ones who think Labour are the solution to any problem. Being Conservative may not be cool but it shows a degree of common sense and intelligence. Of course those are qualities despised by Socialists because anybody with brains isn't going to support Labour.

The people who despise the Tories are those who expect something for nothing.

Facts are meaningless to you aren't they?

Facts are really important things Jim. I like facts, you know that:)


When Labour took over in 1997 the country owed nothing.



No, that isn't true. It is not a fact. It is an anti-fact if you like.

Unless you call £350Bn, nothing.

There were several other errors in your post, but I've found that keeping things simple and focussed adds clarity to a debate.

Will Labour ever get back in power?

I will put my last plain chocolate digestive on it.

Am I the only one that's not really noticed any difference? I agree with the Tories no one on benefits should claim 26k a year. Labour and I was a supporter generally made changes for the better without thinking of the cost. All I want out of life is a decent life after I retire after paying into the system for nearly 50 years, I think that's reasonable, someone who's contributed should get more back. The system's there to help the unemployed for a short term and the 'disabled', not to fund a lazy non working overbreeding houseold. I want the benefits at a rate I paid into back when I've finished working.

Will Labour ever get back in power?
Depends on the timing and outcome of the Scotland referendum.
If all Scottish MPs are excluded from the House of Commons, there's an inbuilt Conservative majority, you see.

It's the hard of thinking like you that keep Labour in power. You have the intellect of a football supporter. Facts are meaningless to you aren't they? So here's a few more for you to ignore:

The Conservatives rescued the country in 1979 after years of Socialist lunacy left the country broke and in debt. Labour had devalued the pound and gone cap in hand for a bailout from the IMF. Basic rate tax was 33%.

When Labour took over in 1997 the country owed nothing. After 13 years of Labour we owed £600,000,000,000.

Sheffield City Council has debts of £2.1bn racked up by years of Labour mismanagement and the city is still an economic basket case.

The real loons are the ones who think Labour are the solution to any problem. Being Conservative may not be cool but it shows a degree of common sense and intelligence. Of course those are qualities despised by Socialists because anybody with brains isn't going to support Labour.

The people who despise the Tories are those who expect something for nothing.

What claptrap, as usual from yourself. The national debt, until the BANKING CRISIS was less than it had when Labour took over from the useless, inept creep that was John Major. You, not only do you have no commonsense or intelligence, it seems, have no memory either!:hihi:

It's the hard of thinking like you that keep Labour in power. You have the intellect of a football supporter. Facts are meaningless to you aren't they? So here's a few more for you to ignore:

The Conservatives rescued the country in 1979 after years of Socialist lunacy left the country broke and in debt. Labour had devalued the pound and gone cap in hand for a bailout from the IMF. Basic rate tax was 33%.

When Labour took over in 1997 the country owed nothing. After 13 years of Labour we owed £600,000,000,000.

Sheffield City Council has debts of £2.1bn racked up by years of Labour mismanagement and the city is still an economic basket case.

The real loons are the ones who think Labour are the solution to any problem. Being Conservative may not be cool but it shows a degree of common sense and intelligence. Of course those are qualities despised by Socialists because anybody with brains isn't going to support Labour.

The people who despise the Tories are those who expect something for nothing.

Hard of thinking eh ?? Only time will tell. How many Tory MP's do we have in Sheffield ??? Is all Sheffield wrong but you are right ?? How many seats do the Tory's have in Scotland ?? Zilch !!! I dont expect anything for nothing, but I do know that under the Torys I will get nothing. I am a campaigner on issues affecting cancer patients [having got the T shirt] and have had correspondence with MP's and Ministers from Labour and Conservative. You never get a straight answer or a pledge of support out of a Tory. Macmillan co-ordinate the various campaigns and we have had victorys, notably in the House of Lords. The evil Torys even want to scrap the Equality act which gives the disabled and Cancer patients a bit of protection, enabling them TO WORK and maintain their dignity and self esteem. Stop reading the SUN and THE MAIL and do a bit of research. Its tin pot 2 bob millionaires like you, pretending you are above being a socialist that the Torys feed on. If we had a competant Labour leadership instead of that muppet Milliband, the Torys would be in deep s**t. I work myself, but only part time. i am not strong enough to work full time so I top up my income with pensions which I have had to draw early. I take the 'those who expect something for nothing' tag as an insult. I get NOTHING from the state, only a bus pass which every one over 60 gets and a Blue Badge for disabled parking....................... Go and get yourself an education, stop being the typical uncaring Tory moron and you may begin to understand why many people have no time for the Torys. I could go on for ever over issues concerning cancer patients which the Torys have had to 'U turn ' on but you wouldn't understand anyway. I think your prognosis is 'terminally stupid'. Very sad indeed........

What claptrap, as usual from yourself. The national debt, until the BANKING CRISIS was less than it had when Labour took over from the useless, inept creep that was John Major. You, not only do you have no commonsense or intelligence, it seems, have no memory either!:hihi:

Nice one mate, this forum is full of little Hitlers and 2 bob millionaires who like to be Torys. Their memory is somewhat 'selective'..........only remembering what they choose. I have never voted Tory in my life, I couldn't live with the shame of it. I'd lock all the Tory MP's in a cell, stop all food going in, no water or healthcare, no heating, just plates of POUND NOTES. I'd tell them that seeing as they love money so much they can eat it. :hihi::hihi:

What claptrap, as usual from yourself. The national debt, until the BANKING CRISIS was less than it had when Labour took over from the useless, inept creep that was John Major. You, not only do you have no commonsense or intelligence, it seems, have no memory either!:hihi:

Nice one mate, this forum is full of little Hitlers and 2 bob millionaires who like to be Torys. Their memory is somewhat 'selective'..........only remembering what they choose. I have never voted Tory in my life, I couldn't live with the shame of it. I'd lock all the Tory MP's in a cell, stop all food going in, no water or healthcare, no heating, just plates of POUND NOTES. I'd tell them that seeing as they love money so much they can eat it. :hihi::hihi:

What claptrap, as usual from yourself. The national debt, until the BANKING CRISIS was less than it had when Labour took over from the useless, inept creep that was John Major. You, not only do you have no commonsense or intelligence, it seems, have no memory either!:hihi:

Nice one mate, this forum is full of little Hitlers and 2 bob millionaires who like to be Torys. Their memory is somewhat 'selective'..........only remembering what they choose. I have never voted Tory in my life, I couldn't live with the shame of it. I'd lock all the Tory MP's in a cell, stop all food going in, no water or healthcare, no heating, just plates of POUND NOTES. I'd tell them that seeing as they love money so much they can eat it. :hihi::hihi:

Will Labour ever get back in power?
Depends on the timing and outcome of the Scotland referendum.
If all Scottish MPs are excluded from the House of Commons, there's an inbuilt Conservative majority, you see.

Ths is terrifying............:help: :hihi:

Will Labour ever get back in power?
Depends on the timing and outcome of the Scotland referendum.
If all Scottish MPs are excluded from the House of Commons, there's an inbuilt Conservative majority, you see.

You mean an inbuilt cowardice and toading to the ruling class?
The English are a pathetic people without the Celts to back them up.

What makes you say that?

To them Britain is the old hated former colonial power they booted out!

You got what you voted for.

Are you saying that I voted for a conservative government ………. God forbid its getting worse. :o

I voted for Clegg because I thought The Lib / Dems were about to make the breakthrough into mainstream politics ……. Instead of that he has made them unelectable …… looks like its back to a 2 horse race next time around.

What claptrap, as usual from yourself. The national debt, until the BANKING CRISIS was less than it had when Labour took over from the useless, inept creep that was John Major. You, not only do you have no commonsense or intelligence, it seems, have no memory either!:hihi:


Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

Brown kept the Tories spending rules in place for a few years after taking over but then the spendaholism kicked in. By 2004 National Debt was already higher than it had been when Labour took over. That's 4 years before the banking crisis.


http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/spending_chart_1985_2015UKb_11s1li111lcn_G0

Nice one mate, this forum is full of little Hitlers and 2 bob millionaires who like to be Torys. Their memory is somewhat 'selective'..........only remembering what they choose. I have never voted Tory in my life, I couldn't live with the shame of it. I'd lock all the Tory MP's in a cell, stop all food going in, no water or healthcare, no heating, just plates of POUND NOTES. I'd tell them that seeing as they love money so much they can eat it. :hihi::hihi:



......and you're another one with Selective Socialist Amnesia.

Are you saying that I voted for a conservative government ………. God forbid its getting worse. :o

I voted for Clegg because I thought The Lib / Dems were about to make the breakthrough into mainstream politics ……. Instead of that he has made them unelectable …… looks like its back to a 2 horse race next time around.



You mean one horse and one lame duck race.

I'd lock all the Tory MP's in a cell, stop all food going in, no water or healthcare, no heating.............


Sounds like a pensioners home under Labour

You mean one horse and one lame duck race.

That’s not fair on Mr Cameron he could always sneak in again with slippery nick in his back pocket.

Will Labour get back in power?of course they will peoples memorys are short.Its like a merry go round the Tories make all the unpopular decisions grasping the nettle to balance the books.Everyone gets fed up of the things they do even if they sort everything out and next election time vote Labour back in who promptly cock it all up again,its no good getting all excited about it thats the way its gone on for yonks,to my eyes all politicians are two faced self serving gets no matter what party they belong to and its the ordinary man or woman in the street who suffers from their many cock ups not them!!:rant::suspect::confused:

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj69/howard.htm

Conclusion

In the present decade movements continue to arise to confront the absurdities emanating from the unregulated sprawl of city growth, with all its damaging consequences. Campaigns against motorway extensions, road tolls, noise and environmental pollution join up with New Age travellers, squatters and ravers to demand some rational improvement in social living. If all these movements fail to link up into a generalised struggle against those who exclusively exercise economic power, then their failures will far outweigh their successes. In practice and in theory, the new left in Sheffield, at best, created castles in the air; at worst, they accelerated defeat for its workers who continue to suffer the consequences. But the restructuring of capitalist production in Sheffield still leaves the road clear to major social change through class struggle, organised through the continual confrontations workers in cities have with the owners of property, state or private.

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj69/howard.htm

Conclusion

In the present decade movements continue to arise to confront the absurdities emanating from the unregulated sprawl of city growth, with all its damaging consequences. Campaigns against motorway extensions, road tolls, noise and environmental pollution join up with New Age travellers, squatters and ravers to demand some rational improvement in social living. If all these movements fail to link up into a generalised struggle against those who exclusively exercise economic power, then their failures will far outweigh their successes. In practice and in theory, the new left in Sheffield, at best, created castles in the air; at worst, they accelerated defeat for its workers who continue to suffer the consequences. But the restructuring of capitalist production in Sheffield still leaves the road clear to major social change through class struggle, organised through the continual confrontations workers in cities have with the owners of property, state or private.


You talk about the present decade and then churn out recycled rhetoric from the 1840s. The problem with Socialism is that it's time has come and long gone but it's supporters can't accept it. The lot of the working man has improved immeasurably in the last 50 years without Socialism but the economic cost has been ruinous to our economy.

As you rightly say Socialism accelerated defeat for the working man through economic disaster as we have now but nobody here will accept they lost. The idea of Capitalist production went out with manufacturing industry. I'd like to see the workers seize the means of a service economy. Part of the problem is that they think they can. And the idea of class struggle is utterly ludicrous when education is the main determinate of economic success.

It's no wonder this city struggles to make a mark in the 21st century when so much of it's ideas and aspirations are more relevant to the 19th century. Socialists have been in charge of this city since Adam was a lad. If there is any barrier to social change it's the left wing loons that are stopping it. There are powerful vested interests keeping this city in poverty and ignorance. The idea that it has anything to do with class, capitalism or the failure of single issue pressure groups is absurd. There is no new left in Sheffield. They are all old left.

That’s not fair on Mr Cameron he could always sneak in again with slippery nick in his back pocket.


Well there's no danger of Millibrain and his spendaholic sidekicks getting in.

It's the hard of thinking like you that keep Labour in power. You have the intellect of a football supporter. Facts are meaningless to you aren't they? So here's a few more for you to ignore:

The Conservatives rescued the country in 1979 after years of Socialist lunacy left the country broke and in debt. Labour had devalued the pound and gone cap in hand for a bailout from the IMF. Basic rate tax was 33%.

When Labour took over in 1997 the country owed nothing. After 13 years of Labour we owed £600,000,000,000.

Sheffield City Council has debts of £2.1bn racked up by years of Labour mismanagement and the city is still an economic basket case.

The real loons are the ones who think Labour are the solution to any problem. Being Conservative may not be cool but it shows a degree of common sense and intelligence. Of course those are qualities despised by Socialists because anybody with brains isn't going to support Labour.

The people who despise the Tories are those who expect something for nothing.

I know Labour can spend spend spend however I didn't know after just 13 years in power they had accummulated that much debt wow. Does this include the 5.5 billion pension pot or is this in addition?

Every labour government since WW2 has left power with the country in severe debt only for the tories to come along and balance the books. It was Thatcher who balanced the books on the massive national debt that we owed the USA following WW2, Labour didn't contribute a penny to the debt.

Maybe stauch Labour supporters would be happy to pay 33% of their hard earned wages in tax again or doesn't this matter?

And we can't forget the looney Labour Karl Marx bandstand on the Moor can we... you know the one that was never actually used and cost £120,000 to build, thank you Clive Betts !!

I don't like Politicians however I despise anyone who can blatently deny the obvious and also cripple our country with un-necessary and unthoughtful debts whilst giving themselves massive pay rises. In fact Maggie T was the only PM to actually cut wages during her period in charge.

I'd lock all the Tory MP's in a cell, stop all food going in, no water or healthcare, no heating, just plates of POUND NOTES.

Pound notes??! :hihi: were'nt they replaced with coins in 1983?

Well there's no danger of Millibrain and his spendaholic sidekicks getting in.

Is pulling billions of pounds out of thin air “spending” …………. Hold on let me think about that one. :hihi:

You talk about the present decade and then churn out recycled rhetoric from the 1840s. The problem with Socialism is that it's time has come and long gone but it's supporters can't accept it. The lot of the working man has improved immeasurably in the last 50 years without Socialism but the economic cost has been ruinous to our economy.

As you rightly say Socialism accelerated defeat for the working man through economic disaster as we have now but nobody here will accept they lost. The idea of Capitalist production went out with manufacturing industry. I'd like to see the workers seize the means of a service economy. Part of the problem is that they think they can. And the idea of class struggle is utterly ludicrous when education is the main determinate of economic success.

It's no wonder this city struggles to make a mark in the 21st century when so much of it's ideas and aspirations are more relevant to the 19th century. Socialists have been in charge of this city since Adam was a lad. If there is any barrier to social change it's the left wing loons that are stopping it. There are powerful vested interests keeping this city in poverty and ignorance. The idea that it has anything to do with class, capitalism or the failure of single issue pressure groups is absurd. There is no new left in Sheffield. They are all old left.

I dont agree with many of your political views but you do make some sense in this post. BUT, ordinary working people being treat like crap and almost enslaved [a Tory dream] is not the way to go. Capitalism today is based on greed, not business sense so naturally the left act accordingly. Education IS the only way forward but I dont think many of us will be around long enough to see it.

I dont agree with many of your political views but you do make some sense in this post. BUT, ordinary working people being treat like crap and almost enslaved [a Tory dream] is not the way to go. Capitalism today is based on greed, not business sense so naturally the left act accordingly. Education IS the only way forward but I dont think many of us will be around long enough to see it.


The idea that a Conservative government can treat the people like slaves is absurd lefty rhetoric. If they did they wouldn't get re-elected. Thatcher got elected three times so she must have been doing something right. She upset the lefties by taking away their right to get something for nothing and they can't forgive her for that. The rest of the country agreed with her.

Socialism cannot create wealth. It can only spend it. That's why Labour governments always end up bankrupting the country. The only way forward is Capitalism because that creates wealth BUT it needs to be very carefully and skillfully regulated. The problem is the regulators are politicians and what do they know about anything? They are talentless idiots. At least the Tories have some economic sense, unlike Labour's spendaholics.

I am not the right wing nutter everyone thinks I am. All politics is relative and in Sheffield if you aren't a card carrying memder of the Socialist Shirkers you get branded a Tory. I supported Labour until 1979. Never again.

The idea that a Conservative government can treat the people like slaves is absurd lefty rhetoric. If they did they wouldn't get re-elected. Thatcher got elected three times so she must have been doing something right. She upset the lefties by taking away their right to get something for nothing and they can't forgive her for that. The rest of the country agreed with her.

Socialism cannot create wealth. It can only spend it. That's why Labour governments always end up bankrupting the country. The only way forward is Capitalism because that creates wealth BUT it needs to be very carefully and skillfully regulated. The problem is the regulators are politicians and what do they know about anything? They are talentless idiots. At least the Tories have some economic sense, unlike Labour's spendaholics.

I am not the right wing nutter everyone thinks I am. All politics is relative and in Sheffield if you aren't a card carrying memder of the Socialist Shirkers you get branded a Tory. I supported Labour until 1979. Never again.

Thatcher took away jobs, she actually stated we didn't need manufacturing and service industrys were the way forward - along with banking etc. She had a personal hatred of South Yorkshire 'cos that awfull Mr Scargill lives there so her and her cohorts laid waste to it. i reckon old red Ken Livingston is right when he said last week that Mrs T was clinically insane.
Trouble with the Torys economic sense is that its the poor people who have to bear the brunt of any austerity cuts. Tax rates could be raised a little for the better off, they can afford it. Maybe then VAT could be cut a little to stimulate High St spending.
We are conditioned in the UK to accept leadership [bull****] from our betters, bit of forelock tugging, bowing and scraping and to ignore the fact that people like Cameron, Clegg and Osborne are shafting us. The old saying "We get the government we deserve" is true.

Hard of thinking eh ?? Only time will tell. How many Tory MP's do we have in Sheffield ??? Is all Sheffield wrong but you are right ?? How many seats do the Tory's have in Scotland ?? Zilch !!! . . . . We don't have Conservative seats in Sheffield because Sheffield is a city with a disproportionately high number of people from low socio-economic groups / in social housing / on benefits / of poor education standard etc.

Look across the country, and you will see that the majority of England is very Conservative. That's because outside of places like South Yorkshire and the North East, politics hasn't been turned into a class divide driven by the bitter politics of envy that you have written all over this thread.

On a national basis, yes, the left-voting people of Sheffield are very wrong.

We don't have Conservative seats in Sheffield because Sheffield is a city with a disproportionately high number of people from low socio-economic groups

[...] Look across the country, and you will see that the majority of England is very Conservative. That's because outside of places like South Yorkshire [...] politics hasn't been turned into a class divide
You've contradicted yourself. If only low socio-economic groups vote for Labour, then higher socio-economic groups voting for Conservatives is still a class divide. Surely?

You've contradicted yourself. If only low socio-economic groups vote for Labour, then higher socio-economic groups voting for Conservatives is still a class divide. Surely?That wasn't the point. You omitted the part of my post which said that in south Yorkshire it's been made a class issue - so yes in Sheffield there's certainly a class divide but Sheffield's geography has long contributed to that as well.
In other counties the idea of being accused of being 'posh' or rich or elite for voting Conservative would cause bafflement.
We have a relatively uneducated populace in Sheffield, and uneducated people are easily led into the 'them & us' destructive mindset.

Thatcher took away jobs, she actually stated we didn't need manufacturing and service industrys were the way forward - along with banking etc. She had a personal hatred of South Yorkshire 'cos that awfull Mr Scargill lives there so her and her cohorts laid waste to it. i reckon old red Ken Livingston is right when he said last week that Mrs T was clinically insane.
Trouble with the Torys economic sense is that its the poor people who have to bear the brunt of any austerity cuts. Tax rates could be raised a little for the better off, they can afford it. Maybe then VAT could be cut a little to stimulate High St spending.
We are conditioned in the UK to accept leadership [bull****] from our betters, bit of forelock tugging, bowing and scraping and to ignore the fact that people like Cameron, Clegg and Osborne are shafting us. The old saying "We get the government we deserve" is true.



There you go again with that tired old inaccurate Socialist claptrap.

Thatcher didn't take away a single job. She took away the handouts that were keeping those jobs going. She took away your something for nothing. That's why you can't forgive her. British Steel was subsidised 40% by the taxpayer and was still a basket case. Some pits were being kept open even when the coal had long since been mined out. She took away the handouts and the industries folded because they could not survive without them.

Scargill is a mad dog who bit the hand that fed him. Billions of tax payers money were poured down the mines but he still wanted to wage a stupid and futile class war he was always going to lose. Thatcher put a stop to Socialist economic madness after the people got tired of being held to ransom by the unions. Thatcher was given a mandate by the British people to get rid of Scargill and all his ilk. She did exactly what the British people wanted her to do.

Cameron is not shafting the British people at all. He's saving them. It was Blair/Brown who shafted the people by promising a utopia we could never afford. I'm sorry you can't see that. until you do you will waste the rest of your life tilting at windmills.

We have a relatively uneducated populace in Sheffield, and uneducated people are easily led into the 'them & us' destructive mindset.

And Labour want to keep that way because it keeps them in power.

I know Labour can spend spend spend however I didn't know after just 13 years in power they had accummulated that much debt wow.

Labour voters are like babies who have an adult dangling a set of car keys over their pram! Announce a new hospital or school and they're happy. But they don't look into how it's going to get paid for, or if it's actually value for money.

And Labour want to keep that way because it keeps them in power.Labour has played many a trick to feed its voting base rather than do the best for the country.

Labour voters are like babies who have an adult dangling a set of car keys over their pram! Announce a new hospital or school and they're happy. But they don't look into how it's going to get paid for, or if it's actually value for money.I rather like that analogy.

Labour has played many a trick to feed its voting base rather than do the best for the country.

You mean like bribing people for votes with tax cuts, selling state-owned businesses to anyone, selling off social house and the rest? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I'm not even sure if you're trying to convinve yourself rather than other people. You sound like a Sheffield United fan to me.

You mean like bribing people for votes with tax cuts, selling state-owned businesses to anyone, selling off social house and the rest? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I'm not even sure if you're trying to convinve yourself rather than other people. You sound like a Sheffield United fan to me.Ah, no. I have never had the remotest interest in football, but I think it safe to assume that the majority of football fans, in their team shirts and scarves, munching on burgers on their way into the stands, shouting and jeering through the match, will be Labour voters.

But they don't look into how it's going to get paid for, or if it's actually value for money.

Aren't most schools and hospitals built using the dreaded PFI-scheme these days? A terrible Tory idea which New Labour embraced. Never underestimate the role of NeoLiberal governments in creating attractive investment opportunities for their big business chums at the expense of the public good.

You mean like bribing people for votes with tax cuts, selling state-owned businesses to anyone, selling off social house and the rest? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I'm not even sure if you're trying to convinve yourself rather than other people. You sound like a Sheffield United fan to me.

only one government was stupid enough to have sold the inland revenues buildings only to rent them back from a company located in a tax haven!

only one government was stupid enough to have announced the sale of our gold reserves against the advice of EVERYONE, only to sell it all at rock bottom prices.

its no wonder we cannot pay for anything anymore. we didn't have the money in the first place!

Aren't most schools and hospitals built using the dreaded PFI-scheme these days? A terrible Tory idea which New Labour embraced. Never underestimate the role of NeoLiberal governments in creating attractive investment opportunities for their big business chums at the expense of the public good.

PFI was a very good idea to begin with. It was developed under John Major as a way to build the M6 toll road using private finance, and pay it off using the proceeds. The government has no debt on this road.

Gordon took the PFI principle, used it for anything that HMG wanted to build, removed the need for a revenue stream, stretched the payment terms to 40+ years, and used it to provide things on the never-never while retaining the entire liability for facilities that will need replacing before they are paid for.

PFI was a very good idea to begin with. It was developed under John Major as a way to build the M6 toll road using private finance, and pay it off using the proceeds. The government has no debt on this road.

Gordon took the PFI principle, used it for anything that HMG wanted to build, removed the need for a revenue stream, stretched the payment terms to 40+ years, and used it to provide things on the never-never while retaining the entire liability for facilities that will need replacing before they are paid for.



Exactly right.

PFI was originally invented as a way of paying for infrastructure without borrowing. Gordon Brown soon worked out it was great way of disguising government borrowing. That's why he embraced it so lovingly. The amount a government owes affects its credit rating and ability to borrow more. By disguising the amount owed they can borrow at lower rates.

PFI means the contractor stumps up the cost of the build and the government rents it so it doesn't show up as borrowings even though it is a liability on the balance sheets. It is, in effect, a mortgage on the building.

The EU got wise to this ruse and changed the rules some years ago but not before that brilliant financial wizard Gordon Brown had sussed out that not only could he borrow cash but he could buy votes by building new schools and hospitals on ruinously expensive PFI deals as well and look as though he hadn't done it on borrowed money. It was all part of the careful illusion of growth that he built up.

The problem Brown's legacy left us all with is a bunch of p**spoor value contracts that will cost billions a year for at least 2 generations. In Sheffield billions have been spent on new schools but education standards continue to fall through the floor. So mostly a complete waste of money.

Ah, no. I have never had the remotest interest in football, but I think it safe to assume that the majority of football fans, in their team shirts and scarves, munching on burgers on their way into the stands, shouting and jeering through the match, will be Labour voters.

I hate football.....and I vote Labour. Good thread this but loads of sociological cliches popping up all the time. I studied sociology, industrial and social history plus various other related subjects including a little bit of psychology. I reckon the Torys are con artists, most of our populace dont give a sh*t about their fellow man and they play on it. They even make some of you lot believe that 'the ruling class' deserve their massive salaries and perks and the mere working 'pleb' should be gratefull for his minimum wage.
Carry on voting Tory, get rid of more Labour MP's and lets have a100% Tory govt..............Then we will all be better off, healthier, better educated, AND DROWNING IN BULL**** !!!!!! :hihi:

IThen we will all be better off, healthier, better educated, AND DROWNING IN BULL**** !!!!!! :hihi:

And there is plenty of that on here isn’t there ………. Let them eat cake mentality.

PFI was originally invented as a way of paying for infrastructure without borrowing. Gordon Brown soon worked out it was great way of disguising government borrowing. That's why he embraced it so lovingly. The amount a government owes affects its credit rating and ability to borrow more. By disguising the amount owed they can borrow at lower rates.


PFI has got out of control. Originally it was good but Labour let them have a blank cheque book and didn't monitor what was being spent.

So we've ended up with schools designed like shopping malls - all open plan and glass. Look lovely but no evidence they improve teaching and learning. There's a reason we have traditional classroom design - it simply works.

Sadly it costs a fortune to heat these places in winter and cool them in summer.

Then we have the schemes of giving each student a netbook or ipad, again no evidence they improve teaching and learning, nor any provision to what happens if they're lost, stolen or broken - the kids don't care if they get broken because they or their parents didn't buy it. Learning time is lost when students don't bring them in or charge them or a loaner is needed if theirs is broken.

And to add insult to injury there's the hundreds of thousands of pounds paid to the consultants for each new build. And believe me, they'd string out these meetings as long as they could to bump up the costs.

Originally it was good but Labour let them have a blank cheque book and didn't monitor what was being spent.

I suppose it's good again under the coalition?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8457645/Coalition-is-sticking-to-wasteful-PFI-funding.html

I suppose it's good again under the coalition?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8457645/Coalition-is-sticking-to-wasteful-PFI-funding.html

The article you quote doesn't really come up with any specific figures or examples of waste though, does it? Other posters have given examples that PFI isn't always a bad thing.

The coalition put a stop to all BSF projects while they were investigated and checked for value for money.

This one cost £24 million and was scheduled to close just two years after building:

http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/daily-news/award-winning-aedas-bsf-school-to-close/8610029.article

Posters #67-109: could you go back and re-read my post #66, please?

I don't think the current set of clowns are much better. I only wish I had a better choice to vote for.

Only this man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvBF8vpplvc&feature=related

I don't think the current set of clowns are much better. I only wish I had a better choice to vote for.

Only this man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvBF8vpplvc&feature=related

I would like to see politicians with conviction......NOT CONVICTIONS !!!
I'd like to see less smartarse career politicians.......i.e. Seb Coe, he's never had a proper job in his life !!!

The stronger and more 'abusive of power' the right wing become, the more we need a powerfull left wing, otherwise a dictatorship ensues.

i mentioned 'proper jobs'........I'd love to see Nick Cleggs C.V. :rolleyes:

Aren't most schools and hospitals built using the dreaded PFI-scheme these days? A terrible Tory idea which New Labour embraced. Never underestimate the role of NeoLiberal governments in creating attractive investment opportunities for their big business chums at the expense of the public good.

I hate to admit it [as a Labour supporter] but Tony Blairs choice of 'chums' bordered on criminality. :mad: He moved in strange circles for a socialist..........all those holidays with the King of Spain for a start.........I'm sure they didn't just talk about the weather.:suspect:

I would like to see politicians with conviction......NOT CONVICTIONS !!!
I'd like to see less smartarse career politicians.......i.e. Seb Coe, he's never had a proper job in his life !!!

The stronger and more 'abusive of power' the right wing become, the more we need a powerfull left wing, otherwise a dictatorship ensues.

i mentioned 'proper jobs'........I'd love to see Nick Cleggs C.V. :rolleyes:



Whereas the likes of Marxist firebrand, socialist loon and man of the people David Blunkett has the conviction of a tart. He let in all the immigrants without proper checks and introduced university fees after promising he wouldn't

So far he has taken the best part of £500k from Murdoch, has a house in London and one on the Chatsworth Estate. Is that the sort of political conviction you are talking about?

I'd like to see what Blunkett has on his CV under the heading Achievements.

I'd like to see less smartarse career politicians.......i.e. Seb Coe, he's never had a proper job in his life !!!

The stronger and more 'abusive of power' the right wing become, the more we need a powerfull left wing, otherwise a dictatorship ensues.

i mentioned 'proper jobs'........I'd love to see Nick Cleggs C.V. :rolleyes:

What about David Milliband's? Don't think he's done much outside politics..

I would like to see politicians with conviction......NOT CONVICTIONS !!!
I'd like to see less smartarse career politicians.......i.e. Seb Coe, he's never had a proper job in his life !!!

They do exist. I personally know of a couple of MPs who have worked hard in their lives, then gone into local politics and done loads for their local area and never claimed for a duck mansion or done anything dishonest.

What about David Milliband's? Don't think he's done much outside politics..

Ah but Millibrain isn't a Socialist. In fact they are few and far between in Labour Party. But that fact doesn't stop the loony lefties voting for them and then complaining they aren't proper Labour.

Of course Labour's paymasters, the unions, are socialists. That's why the likes of Millibrain, Balls and the rest are talking out of both sides of their mouths. They can't get elected on socialist principles because that philosophy died years ago. They can't keep the support of the unions without delivering more loony socialist policies. So whatever promises they make they will always go back to their ruinous tax and spend policies as we have had in Sheffield since Adam was a lad.

Ah but Millibrain isn't a Socialist. In fact they are few and far between in Labour Party. But that fact doesn't stop the loony lefties voting for them and then complaining they aren't proper Labour.

Of course Labour's paymasters, the unions, are socialists. That's why the likes of Millibrain, Balls and the rest are talking out of both sides of their mouths. They can't get elected on socialist principles because that philosophy died years ago. They can't keep the support of the unions without delivering more loony socialist policies. So whatever promises they make they will always go back to their ruinous tax and spend policies as we have had in Sheffield since Adam was a lad.You've pretty much summed up New Labour in one short post there.

Conservative government gets in Sheffield gets nothing, because its Labour run.

Labour government gets in Sheffield gets nothing, because the people think we're ok now because Labour are in, Labour do nothing for Sheffield but get it further in the mire, yet the populace are happy that Labour are in power.

Wake up!

It looks like the Tories are under the kosh by the media a lot lately, hence this thread.

It looks like the Tories are under the kosh by the media a lot lately, hence this thread.

Nobody likes pain, but the alternative may prove unbearable.

Only because its no longer fun to attack Milliband, it's no longer sporting.

I long for the days of Kinnock when the papers could come up with new stuff about him on a daily basis for years!

Ah but Millibrain isn't a Socialist. In fact they are few and far between in Labour Party. But that fact doesn't stop the loony lefties voting for them and then complaining they aren't proper Labour.

Of course Labour's paymasters, the unions, are socialists. That's why the likes of Millibrain, Balls and the rest are talking out of both sides of their mouths. They can't get elected on socialist principles because that philosophy died years ago. They can't keep the support of the unions without delivering more loony socialist policies. So whatever promises they make they will always go back to their ruinous tax and spend policies as we have had in Sheffield since Adam was a lad.

At least Labours paymasters are up front and open about their intentions and expectations. Nowt secretive about Unions, TUC conference is always shown 'warts an all' on TV. So is the Labour Conference...........now the Conservative Party Conference is a PR exercise on TV....the REAL conference takes place in the backroom where Cameron and Co recieve their 'backhanders'.
All we on the left ask for is a fair deal, we dont want 'owt for nowt. Harold Macmillan told us we had never had it so good...........I'm still waiting for my share.

now the Conservative Party Conference is a PR exercise on TV....the REAL conference takes place in the backroom where Cameron and Co recieve their 'backhanders'.

Oh dear, paranoid much? :)

It looks like the Tories are under the kosh by the media a lot lately, hence this thread.
Only until Scotland splits-off: then they'll be in power more or less for ever.

Only until Scotland splits-off: then they'll be in power more or less for ever.

But that would be Labour's fault for not changing the system while they could. If they'd brought in PR and governed as if they thought they had some responsibility towards the electorate they could have avoided potential Scottish independence. But they got drunk on their power and messed up. I'd love to see Scotland go independent as a big two fingers to all 3 of the main parties.

But that would be Labour's fault for not changing the system while they could. If they'd brought in PR and governed as if they thought they had some responsibility towards the electorate they could have avoided potential Scottish independence. But they got drunk on their power and messed up. I'd love to see Scotland go independent as a big two fingers to all 3 of the main parties.


There's nothing stopping you from going up there to join 'em!

Lets hope not, after the state they left the country in the last time.Yes they will.

And they eventually should if only for democracies sake.

At least Labours paymasters are up front and open about their intentions and expectations. Nowt secretive about Unions, TUC conference is always shown 'warts an all' on TV. So is the Labour Conference...........now the Conservative Party Conference is a PR exercise on TV....the REAL conference takes place in the backroom where Cameron and Co recieve their 'backhanders'.
All we on the left ask for is a fair deal, we dont want 'owt for nowt. Harold Macmillan told us we had never had it so good...........I'm still waiting for my share.



Oh come on! Labour Party conferences are show pieces of false unity. Dissent simply isn't allowed.

Is that old Selective Socialist Amnesia kicking in again?

At the 2005 party conference Labour's thugs assaulted 82 year old Walter Wolfgang in the auditorium because he was heckling Jack Straw by calling his speech on Iraq "nonsense". Another delegate who stepped in to help Mr Wolfgang was also assaulted. Labour organisers confiscated Mr Wolfgang's conference pass and told the police to arrest him under their own anti terrorist laws. Party chairman Ian McCartney then lied to the press about why Mr Wolfgang had been thrown out of the hall.

Don't you loons ever get tired of living in a parallel universe?

I think you'll find Britain had never had it so good till Labour got in and put an end to it. Of course you want something for nothing. When you had it all in the '70s it still wasn't enough for you.

Bet they'll be voted in by muppet's who still refuse to believe that we're in this mess because of Labour.

There's nothing stopping you from going up there to join 'em!

For Labour to get back in a lot more people than me would have to emigrate. Maybe you could tell us what Labour did in its 13 years that only 29% of people who voted in 2010 noticed.

For Labour to get back in a lot more people than me would have to emigrate. Maybe you could tell us what Labour did in its 13 years that only 29% of people who voted in 2010 noticed.

A bit more than the 23% that voted Lib Dem but yet the party still had the say in the outcome of the election …………. And a bit less than the 36% that voted for a party that had 13 years to plan there sales pitch to the nation and still couldn’t win outright.

A bit more than the 23% that voted Lib Dem but yet the party still had the say in the outcome of the election …………. And a bit less than the 36% that voted for a party that had 13 years to plan there sales pitch to the nation and still couldn’t win outright.

Now that's a sore loser if ever I saw one! ;)

Now that's a sore loser if ever I saw one! ;)

I thought it was a statement of fact :hihi:

Facts may break my bones but words will always make me smile ;)

Facts may break my bones but words will always make me smile ;)

Yeah right ........

Yeah right ........

PMQ's tomorrow!

PMQ's tomorrow!



Will they be able to make something out of you previous post?

Will they be able to make something out of you previous post?

Hopefully Snivelband will not look like a little kid having just been caught out by his mother.

Also it'd be good if he sounded like he has a back bone and not bullied all his life.

Hopefully Snivelband will not look like a little kid having just been caught out by his mother.

Also it'd be good if he sounded like he has a back bone and not bullied all his life.

Sorry mate you have lost me …………. Is it a riddle.

Sorry mate you have lost me …………. Is it a riddle.

He is a riddly little thing yes...

For Labour to get back in a lot more people than me would have to emigrate. Maybe you could tell us what Labour did in its 13 years that only 29% of people who voted in 2010 noticed.

They must have done enough things to get them re-elected previously.

Twice.

Ooh look, over there....quick....a man getting a job under a conservative government.....Oops, sorry, my mistake, he was just going to an A4E interview.

They must have done enough things to get them re-elected previously.

Twice.

Ooh look, over there....quick....a man getting a job under a conservative government.....Oops, sorry, my mistake, he was just going to an A4E interview.

There were moans about A4e before all this... at least now there are more restrictions and payments are withheld until they've been in work for so long.


A4e and various others have had a reputation for over a decade. Why should they get you a job if they get paid more for you to keep going to their offices? Most of those things are a joke... I'd only recommend Remploy in that category of agency.

Ooh look, over there....quick....a man getting a job under a conservative government.....Oops, sorry, my mistake, he was just going to an A4E interview.

Well they wont be on their own …….

Fresh hopes that the worst is over for Britain's battered economy were raised yesterday after forecasters were confounded by the first fall in unemployment for 18 months.

But the figures showed that the country still has a growing army of eight million "economically inactive" people, with the size of the labour market declining to 28.92 million. The rate of employment is now at its lowest level since the winter of 1996-97.

Official figures showed that the headline jobless rate for the three months to November fell 7,000 to 2.46 million, the first fall since the quarter ending May 2008. The number of 16- to 24-year-olds out of work fell from 943,000 to 927,000.

However increasing numbers of people are being forced into part-time work – a record high of 7.71 million, up 99,000. Just over a million employees and self-employed people were working part-time because they were unable to find full-time jobs, another record figure.

But that would be Labour's fault for not changing the system while they could. If they'd brought in PR and governed as if they thought they had some responsibility towards the electorate they could have avoided potential Scottish independence. But they got drunk on their power and messed up. I'd love to see Scotland go independent as a big two fingers to all 3 of the main parties.

There's more than a grain of truth in this post mate, both Labour and Tory were happy to disregard PR, both dreaming of massive majorities.
Scottish independence would isolate them and I think they secretly know it. Any party with too much power abuses it. As I keep saying, the Torys tend to make the poor even poorer. just wait till the coming summer, warm evenings, unemployed, angry, disaffected youth with time on their hands equalls riots.

Jim Graham reckons all socialists want something for nothing, to that I say bull***t. I had my own business for 14 years and worked 'commision only' for ten years prior to that. I neither want nor expect anything for nothing, only a fair deal. My own health state and compromised life expectancy has made me care more about vulnerable people. It has certainly been a reality check and the Torys dont seem to be offering any help to me. First time in my life I myself have been vulnerable and I have the luck to be saddled with a government that dosent give a toss.

Have noticed 'WORKING LINKS', an organisation like A4e has vanished from Chapeltown. Is the game now up ?? Has the con been exposed?? Will the taxpayer get their money back ?? Will pigs fly ?????

They must have done enough things to get them re-elected previously.

Twice.

Ooh look, over there....quick....a man getting a job under a conservative government.....Oops, sorry, my mistake, he was just going to an A4E interview.

Labour was re-elected in 2001 and 2005, the 2nd time with just 35% of the vote. At the time of those elections the Tories were hopeless (Hague, IDS, Dracula) and we still had the boom. Since then Blair and Brown have both gone, Cameron has arrived and we've had the bust and all the MPs scandals that New Labour were responsible for. 2005 was a long while ago.

The problem with the 2nd part of your post is that like Mecky, Malky and Wednesday1 you can slag the Tories off but not say why anyone should vote Labour. Being anti-Tory doesn't give anyone a positive reason to vote Labour. I'd love to vote Labour but Blair was just a Thatcherite and he will hover over Labour for years like Thatcher did to the Tories for years. The Scots have sussed this out but Labour hacks on here haven't.

It looks like the Tories are under the kosh by the media a lot lately, hence this thread.

Just to clarify for the stupid, me starting this thread was nothing to do with whatever is in the media at the present time.

A bit more than the 23% that voted Lib Dem but yet the party still had the say in the outcome of the election …………. And a bit less than the 36% that voted for a party that had 13 years to plan there sales pitch to the nation and still couldn’t win outright.



Gordon Brown could have had a say in the outcome of the election. But his ego, his stupidity in thinking there wouldn't be a coalition and knowing exactly what Labour's legacy truly was he chose to walk away because he couldn't run the country outright.

Jim Graham reckons all socialists want something for nothing, to that I say bull***t. I had my own business for 14 years and worked 'commision only' for ten years prior to that. I neither want nor expect anything for nothing, only a fair deal. My own health state and compromised life expectancy has made me care more about vulnerable people. It has certainly been a reality check and the Torys dont seem to be offering any help to me. First time in my life I myself have been vulnerable and I have the luck to be saddled with a government that dosent give a toss.


The Socialist creed is based on redistribution of wealth. That is, basically, taking from the haves and giving to the have nots. There's nothing wrong with that in theory. But, the underlying assumption is that there is wealth to redistribute. It's a 19th century creed when massive amounts of wealth were being created during the industrial revolution. Redistribution of wealth is giving people something for nothing isn't it?

The problem today is that there is relatively little wealth and many many more people wanting to get a share of it or they won't vote Labour. Basically, Labour have to pay people to vote for them.

Labour go far beyond protecting the vulnerable to the point where they rely on promising feeebies like child care, child trusts, tax credits, free healthcare, overgenerous pensions and a whole host of other tax funded goodies to people who earn up to £50k. That's how they kept themselves in power all those years. In fact they spent so much money pandering to the relatively wealthy they didn't have enough money to meet their own dismally low targets on child poverty.

As a tax payer I am happy to help those who need it most but Labour abused me and took too much from me and gave it to too many who didn't deserve it just so they could keep themselves in power. In return for my tax they made public services worse and made my life more complicated with their mindless bureaucracy and need to control me.