ok guys im kinnda stuck with this one and im hopeing desperately that some of you can help:confused: :help:

right i work for a supermarket and all was well untill i did my first 13 hour shift and was told that i was only allowed to have a 30 min break for the whole 13 hours other staff also only have 30 mins

then to top it off nicely they have now taken our chairs away from us on the tills saying that we scan too slow sat down!! now i dont mind standing and working but when were doing 13 hours stood up with only a 30 min break i think its a bit much IMO! my hips are killing me i feel about 60 after ive been at work! not to mention the back ache!

then when all the customers have been served we have to clean the tills. brush and mop the whole shop floor by hand and then we get to go home but we stop getting paid at 8pm any time spent there cleaning ect ect after 8pm is unpaid!!

then theres the unsympachetic attitude towards employes with children i may self have had to have time off due to my childminder being ill or my son being ill which i was made to feel guilty about when i returned to work

also last night we all had to come in to do the stock take at 7pm till 10.30pm but i didnt have a babysitter so i had to take my son to work with me as my manager had said well you al have to come in no matter what! so i told him im bringing my son with me then!! on my arrival i was told that two other girls had phoned up to say they couldnt get in as they had no BABYSITTER!! and nothing was said to them!!!

so guys does this sound right to any of you i think some of it is very wrong but as im not sure on the legal points of what my employer is doing im not sure what to say to them about this. im currently looking for another job but i cant leave this one till i have secured another job!:(


PLEASE HELP!!!!!:help: :(

Just looked on Google and this is what it says: -


An employee aged 18 years or over is entitled to a 20 minute undisturbed break for every 6 hour shift they work. They are also entitled to 11 hours rest between each work day and are further entitled to one full day off each week.

An employee aged less than 18 years old (from the minimum age of leaving school) is entitled to a 30 minute undisturbed break for every 4.5 hour shift they work. They are also entitled to 12 hours rest between each work day and are further entitled to two full days off each week.

Employees are not liable to have toilet breaks without the consent of their employer. However, for the sake of your employees' health, it is better for them to use the toilet freely.

Hope that helps! I'd be down the job centre this afternoon !!!

Hi! It's not necessarily fair but it seems that legally, they're only obliged to give you a 20 minute break for any shift longer than 6 hours...

Work and Time Off Regulations (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=1073858926&tc=000KW021384502)

However I don't believe they're allowed not to pay you for cleaning, if it's a requirement of your contract.

It's difficult. They aren't really breaking any laws as for any shift over 6 hours they have to provide you with at least a 20 minute break, but that doesn't mean you should get 40 minutes for a shift twice that long.

I sympathise with you as I used to work similar stretches having to stand still for up to 13 hours and having to attend meetings late at night when I was still at school (I was working in a cinema). However you should just leave when your shift ends, don't work when you're not getting paid for it.

It would appear that the only legal obligation concerning breaks during a shift are for a 20 minute break if the shift is over 6 hrs long, from here (http://www.direct.gov.uk/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/WorkingHoursAndTimeOffArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10029451&chk=pR1H4%2B)

The issue of chairs sounds like a health and safety issue, do you have a union or an H&S rep you can speak to about that?

missis woman if ya got on with ya work insteada stood gas baggin wi me everytime i come in then praps you would finish ya moppin up in time :hihi:

no honestly love i hope ya manage to get some where else, it sounds awful
ill make ya a cuppa next time ya passing..
Hugs
Litha xxx

If you're doing a 13 hour shift, then you should be entitled to two 20 minute breaks in that time. However, because you would only be working for 6½ hours after your first break, I think your employers may be able to get away with not giving you another break. I'm surprised that the shift is actually for 13 hours and not 12½ which would be covered by the one 30 minute break.

As for providing somewhere to sit, I used to do 8/9 hour shifts in the public restaurant in Sainsbury's, and was not allowed to sit down, apart from when on a break. I don't think it can be classed as a health and safety issue. It is hard on the feet, and the first couple of weeks are the worst, but after that you tend to get used to the soreness.

missis woman if ya got on with ya work insteada stood gas baggin wi me everytime i come in then praps you would finish ya moppin up in time :hihi:

no honestly love i hope ya manage to get some where else, it sounds awful
ill make ya a cuppa next time ya passing..
Hugs
Litha xxx


ohhh a cuppa im on my way :hihi:

It does sound rather harsh.I havent worked since having my children but before that i worked full time in a shop, 5 days a week 8.30-5.30 and we got quarter of hour in the morning an hour at lunch time and another quarter in the afternoon.

I hate companies like this who are only bothered about the money going in the till and how quickly it can get there. They don't give a stuff about their employees - they are just a number on the payroll. I personally wouldn't give them the time of day. There are better employers out there.

I used to have similar issues when I worked in a Spar shop.
Led to numerous lively 'discussions' with the manager and a very high staff turnover - unfortunatly he was of the opinion that 'there are always plenty of students wanting jobs'. Of course this meant he could pay less as most staff were still in the probabtionary time. :(

katy1981,

Your treatment by this company is terrible and I would look for another job sharp! If you are contracted until 8pm then you only have to work until then. Tell the boss to clean his or her own bloody floors!

If this company you work for it one of the big names, call the Sheffield star and see if they want to do an exposé on them. Or just name and shame them on here so the rest of us can boycott the store.

katy1981,

Your treatment by this company is terrible and I would look for another job sharp! If you are contracted until 8pm then you only have to work until then. Tell the boss to clean his or her own bloody floors!

If this company you work for it one of the big names, call the Sheffield star and see if they want to do an exposé on them. Or just name and shame them on here so the rest of us can boycott the store.
Quite agree and never mind an expose on the company, an expose on the issues you've raised. This is an absolute disgrace.

why are you doing such long shifts.
Is it a three day week or for the extra money.
With a child you could get family tax as you are no doubt already getting but if this is overtime then it will affect your family credits which seems silly.
I know, I have been in the same boat.
Regarding your child care, unfortunately it isn't the problem of the employer, maybe you could also claim for a child minder under the tax credits scheme.

As for providing somewhere to sit, I used to do 8/9 hour shifts in the public restaurant in Sainsbury's, and was not allowed to sit down, apart from when on a break. I don't think it can be classed as a health and safety issue. It is hard on the feet, and the first couple of weeks are the worst, but after that you tend to get used to the soreness.
Standing for long periods of time gives you varicose veins.

It's bad enough doing a job that requires you to be on your feet all day, but working at a till means you can't move about to keep your circulation going, and it isn't necessary to have people standing to do this job.

Good luck with the job hunting Katy :thumbsup:

http://www.worksmart.org.uk/ - I think you'll find some useful information here.

A 13 hour shift IS quite long. I'm not sure what your contract is like, or indeed you have a contract. If you don't have a contract with details of your work, then I think statutory law applies to you. i.e. whatever is the legal standard.

I've worked as a waitress before as well working for around 7 hours long. When it's busy, you don't notice it, but still, some managers are smart and allow waitresses to catch a break and have a sit down for like 5 minutes or so when it's not as busy. They don't push you. To me, it's just humane. I've never worked a 13 hour shift. Friends that have done factory work which requires 10 odd hours, and have been advised to take 15 min breaks for every couple of hours.

Even in an office job, we had health and safety checks on PC screens and monitors. We had adjustable chairs to position ourselves, so it's more ergonomic. Also, anti-glare filters on pc to reduce glares which may cause headaches over a long period of time. To me, from the sound of your job, the least the company can do is provide you with a chair to sit on when working 13 hrs at a till. I don't know why your manager is being an aXXX about things. Try to reason with him first, and if this does not work. Then approach HR. Or somebody else who is above him. I will surprised if it's a company's policy to remove away the chairs.

If there was a chair there, it must be there for a reason to begin with. i.e. In compliance to health and safety standards or part of the company's rules. If over a period of time, you get injured in anyway by doing your job. You can sue. If the company is smart, they would take such things seriously. If the chair is too low or make you scan too low, then it's up to them to buy you adjustable chairs which does the job. It's part of the tool to do your job.

Also, not to worry about things, cos they cannot sack you for raising such issues related to your work. As long as you know you're within your rights legally. Please look at that website above.

It may also help if you discuss this with your colleagues and ask them about it too. Do they get chairs too, or don't ? Then have a chat with the manager at the end of the shift.

I don't know why your manager is being an aXXX about things.
It is common practise for shop companies to give managers a low basic salary which they then have to make up with bonuses for meeting targets in order to get a decent salary.

(some, more selfish) Shop bosses will often cut breaks right back and generally exploit the staff as much as possible in order to get a decent salary.

why are you doing such long shifts.
Is it a three day week or for the extra money.
With a child you could get family tax as you are no doubt already getting but if this is overtime then it will affect your family credits which seems silly.
I know, I have been in the same boat.
Regarding your child care, unfortunately it isn't the problem of the employer, maybe you could also claim for a child minder under the tax credits scheme.

my manager says he is sorry i am having to do such daft hours but theres nothing he can do as other people phone in sick and he needs me to cover i guess living bang across the road from wor doesnt help as i can be there in ten mins

family tax credit only pay 60% of child care costs i have to put up the other 40% and you cant claim the child minder allowance and the weekly payments its one or the other im afraid also i cant find a child minder that works after 6pm as i mostly do the late shifts at work and the ones that do work after 6pm are really expensive so thats not really an option i have my mother who looks after my son most days when i work but the odd time she has been ill and unable to look after him herself which leaves me a bit in the **** tbh

katy1981,

Your treatment by this company is terrible and I would look for another job sharp! If you are contracted until 8pm then you only have to work until then. Tell the boss to clean his or her own bloody floors!

If this company you work for it one of the big names, call the Sheffield star and see if they want to do an exposé on them. Or just name and shame them on here so the rest of us can boycott the store.

i dont think the star is going to care about some women who is complaining about her employer are they???:confused:

surely theres more important stories they would prefer to use in their paper?

Tell us the store!
we can make a complaint to head office about the conditions the staff were working in :)

Also having no chair will definetely be a health and safety issue! They cant expect people of different sizes to be bending over for 13hours!!

Go to your GP and complain of back ache and explain about what you have to do at work. They will be more than happy to give you a note and within 5 minutes your chair will be back :)

Nat
xx

Katy,
Do you have a Health and Safety rep at work? Speak to them if so. You should also join the Trade Union if there is one in your workplace, and speak to their rep about your problems.

Katy, this organisation is really good. They give advice on rights of employees and they will talk you through exactly how to deal with problems.

http://www.acas.org.uk/

Failing that, the Citizen's Advice Bureau usually will help. Even if they can't answer your questions themselves they will point you in the right direction.

You really shouldn't just put up with this situation. I know its hard to rock the boat sometimes, but no job is worth damaging your health for.

Good luck :thumbsup:

my manager says he is sorry i am having to do such daft hours but theres nothing he can do as other people phone in sick and he needs me to cover i guess living bang across the road from wor doesnt help as i can be there in ten mins

Does your manager ever think why people phone in sick ? Some ppl may hate how they are treated and hence are demotivated, and therefore resort to calling in sickies ? I'm sure many people have been there before. If you're doing double shifts because of this, the least he can do is provide you with a chair. If you're a decent employee, he should really do something about the others calling in sick, and not work you hard until YOU are sick.

I dunno about bonuses and such likes in a supermarket position, as defoot mentioned. Though if the manager thinks about it. Is it truly just down to the number of til workers to pull in the customers ? Isn't it down to the managers to find ways to advertise, so therefore they get more people coming through ? Buy one get one free deals etc ? What targets does a til manager need to meet ?

Name and Shame them! Come on!!!

I dunno about bonuses and such likes in a supermarket position, as defoot mentioned. Though if the manager thinks about it. Is it truly just down to the number of til workers to pull in the customers ? Isn't it down to the managers to find ways to advertise, so therefore they get more people coming through ? Buy one get one free deals etc ? What targets does a til manager need to meet ?
Targets such as staying under staff budget, meeting target turnover for a month/6 month period, things like that. Maybe additional bonuses if targets are exceed by some margin(?).

In most chains of any size the offers (eg BOGOF) are decided between the chain head office and the supplier (who in turn sorts a deal with the manufacturer) and are not really up to the manager to create.

Advertising would normally be done by head office too.

The manager may have some discretion about the positioning of promotional stuff in store but even a lot of that is laid down by head office, likewise product positioning on the shelves (some manufacturers actually pay the stores to make sure their product is in prime position on the shelf!).

This is based on my experience in one chain, but I beleive to be common to most after talking with freinds that work in other chains.

Does your manager ever think why people phone in sick ? Some ppl may hate how they are treated and hence are demotivated, and therefore resort to calling in sickies ? I'm sure many people have been there before. If you're doing double shifts because of this, the least he can do is provide you with a chair. If you're a decent employee, he should really do something about the others calling in sick, and not work you hard until YOU are sick.

I dunno about bonuses and such likes in a supermarket position, as defoot mentioned. Though if the manager thinks about it. Is it truly just down to the number of til workers to pull in the customers ? Isn't it down to the managers to find ways to advertise, so therefore they get more people coming through ? Buy one get one free deals etc ? What targets does a til manager need to meet ?


well as a till operator i have to scan a minimum of two items a second!! all trolleys must be put in a certain position at the end of the til so wse can check that there is nothing in them!! all we are required to say to customers is and i quote * hello * thankyou * goodbye* i have been told of before now for chatting to them too much

also on top of my duties as a till operator i also have other jobs which include bear in mind this is in between serving .... stocking shelves, cleaning up , removing card from shelves and taking items back when customers decide that they wasnt what they wanted

then we have to clean up the whole shop when everyone else has gone!

Katy,
Do you have a Health and Safety rep at work? Speak to them if so. You should also join the Trade Union if there is one in your workplace, and speak to their rep about your problems.


no union

no health and saftey rep


:(

I think by law that there must be an H&S rep, it's probably just not well publicised.

Why not try refusing to do these double shifts, you aren't obliged to work them.
And when they ask why, tell them that it's causing you back problems due to not having a chair.

You might also try going to the doctor and getting something official to confirm that. Do you get sick pay? If you do, have a week off sick because of back pain.
Oh and when your shift finishes, walk out. If they aren't paying you, you have no reason to be there.

And start looking for another job (and brushing up on what to say at an unfair dismisal tribunal).

well just thought id let you know i have just recieved a call from the occupational health therapist at my local doctors surgery and he has informed me that he will be sending me information regarding the joining of a union for myself and my fellow workers

and that he has informed the health and saftey place up not with my name odviousy but apparently they will be popping in shortly to inspect the the work conditions and speak to the managers about this issue!

im not sure this will solve any of the issues which i am annoided with but its worth a go
ill keep you updated as to how this goes


thanks for all your help guys:thumbsup:

I think by law that there must be an H&S rep, it's probably just not well publicised.

Why not try refusing to do these double shifts, you aren't obliged to work them.
And when they ask why, tell them that it's causing you back problems due to not having a chair.

You might also try going to the doctor and getting something official to confirm that. Do you get sick pay? If you do, have a week off sick because of back pain.
Oh and when your shift finishes, walk out. If they aren't paying you, you have no reason to be there.

And start looking for another job (and brushing up on what to say at an unfair dismisal tribunal).

unfair dismissal ?????:confused:

are u any good at secretarial stuff?
i know of a job that may be imminently available 5 days a week 10 -2 (just ideal for dropping kids off at school)

unfair dismissal ?????:confused:

when your *rse of a manager sacks you for having time off or for not working after your shift has finished.

defootTargets such as staying under staff budget, meeting target turnover for a month/6 month period, things like that. Maybe additional bonuses if targets are exceed by some margin(?).

Then it boils down to the management surely. Since the manager has no control over the advertising side. Then he needs to be smart and add extra people to shifts at times which is most popular to cater for the influx. i.e. Xmas, Valentines, Easter...etc... It's managing and predicting that flow of customs. I thought that a good service means customers will likely to come back. A grumpy til worker who's been standing on her feet for 13 hours doesn't qualify as a happy worker.

kath: well just thought id let you know i have just recieved a call from the occupational health therapist at my local doctors surgery and he has informed me that he will be sending me information regarding the joining of a union for myself and my fellow workers

and that he has informed the health and saftey place up not with my name odviousy but apparently they will be popping in shortly to inspect the the work conditions and speak to the managers about this issue!

Fantastic ! :)

I think by law that there must be an H&S rep, it's probably just not well publicised.


I believe that, by law, employers are required to display a poster with these details on. At my workplaces they've always been in the staff room.

when your *rse of a manager sacks you for having time off or for not working after your shift has finished.


*laughs nervously

ermm thanks for the tip

im not at all freaking out right now:(

ok guys im kinnda stuck with this one and im hopeing desperately that some of you can help:confused: :help:

right i work for a supermarket and all was well untill i did my first 13 hour shift and was told that i was only allowed to have a 30 min break for the whole 13 hours other staff also only have 30 mins

then to top it off nicely they have now taken our chairs away from us on the tills saying that we scan too slow sat down!! now i dont mind standing and working but when were doing 13 hours stood up with only a 30 min break i think its a bit much IMO! my hips are killing me i feel about 60 after ive been at work! not to mention the back ache!

then when all the customers have been served we have to clean the tills. brush and mop the whole shop floor by hand and then we get to go home but we stop getting paid at 8pm any time spent there cleaning ect ect after 8pm is unpaid!!

then theres the unsympachetic attitude towards employes with children i may self have had to have time off due to my childminder being ill or my son being ill which i was made to feel guilty about when i returned to work

also last night we all had to come in to do the stock take at 7pm till 10.30pm but i didnt have a babysitter so i had to take my son to work with me as my manager had said well you al have to come in no matter what! so i told him im bringing my son with me then!! on my arrival i was told that two other girls had phoned up to say they couldnt get in as they had no BABYSITTER!! and nothing was said to them!!!

so guys does this sound right to any of you i think some of it is very wrong but as im not sure on the legal points of what my employer is doing im not sure what to say to them about this. im currently looking for another job but i cant leave this one till i have secured another job!:(


PLEASE HELP!!!!!:help: :(

Is this Aldi or Lidl you are working for?!!

my manager says he is sorry i am having to do such daft hours but theres nothing he can do as other people phone in sick and he needs me to cover i guess living bang across the road from wor doesnt help as i can be there in ten mins

Well thats not your problem because people are off sick, you should have a working contract stating your hours of work etc, any further hours outside your contracted hours would be overtime and not compulsory.

USDAW are the union for shop workers http://www.usdaw.org.uk/ im sure they must have some people in Sheffield you could see.

Is this Aldi or Lidl you are working for?!!

im not too sure i should say out right but i wear a blue shirt and the logo compraises of blue, yellow and a splash of red

Well thats not your problem because people are off sick, you should have a working contract stating your hours of work etc, any further hours outside your contracted hours would be overtime and not compulsory.

USDAW are the union for shop workers http://www.usdaw.org.uk/ im sure they must have some people in Sheffield you could see.

im contracted to 20 hours at the moment

but now all the rotas seem to be that we all arnt getting our contracted hours we just cant win first they shove to many onto us then they dont give us enough:confused:


im thinking id be better of going back into catering:rolleyes:
]
and ill contact the above details thanks for the link

ooh katy it sounds like you're having a really rough time of it; sorry I dont know very much about this area of law but it does seem that you're getting excellent advice here. Keep your pecker up,.

katy, you're doing crap hours girl with no break (not read full thread). If you're manager can see you're working hard making up for those who are off sick make sure he rewards you financially...it is only fair.

im not too sure i should say out right but i wear a blue shirt and the logo compraises of blue, yellow and a splash of red

Katy - If this is the Company I think you are talking about then they have a policy of driving their staff into the ground - total use and abuse and burnout. Please don't put up with it. It is not good for you and certainly not good for your family life.

You seem to be looking for another job - but you also have an advantage at the moment - that is your boss seems to be struggling for staff in terms of people calling in sick/problems with babysitting. That suggests to me he is not coping really well with the pressures of the business...

If you are looking to get out, one suggestion I would make in the short-term would be to go and have a chat with him - basically saying that you understand that there are unexpected times in retail where you are needed to help with the business where you can - and at most times, you are prepared to do so. However, you can only do what you can do in terms of your circumstances and if you can't help, then you don't expect to be forced into working or that would make it very difficult to continue with your position - yet you understand the pressure there is and you want to help out...try to appeal to his better nature...if he thinks he is going to lose another fully trained employee - he may try and work with you more...(if he has that level of intelligence!)

However, I also know that this sort of Company think they are above the law in terms of treating employees in such a manner and get away with it all the time because they can just recruit again and undertake basic training fairly quickly (it used to be because of the high wages they pay - although now they are comparable...)

If you want to keep your job, try the discussion route.

One thing though; that is where people are talking about claiming constructive/unfair dismissal, you would need to show at any tribunal that you have followed the Company grievance procedure to give the Company full opportunity to rectify a problem...stage one is usually the informal discussion as I mentioned above. If this is not rectified, you can then pursue to stage 2 which is often letter describing nature of grievance. If memory serves, the Company's policy should be in the handbook/file in the staffroom?

Courts don't really look upon kindly if people hand in their notice in haste and then think they can easily claim constructive/unfair dismissal...you need to show that you have tried to sort the problem.

Good luck - keep us informed. PM if you want to discuss any further.

Dolly Parton wouldn't put up with it Katy! ;)

I keep meaning to visit you one dinner time and lift some gin.

Liose - when I mentioned unfair dismissal, I was assuming that Katy would probably get the sack for perfectly reasonably refusing some overtime or walking out when her shift and pay finished at 8pm. That I think would be a much clearer case than resigning.

However, I also know that this sort of Company think they are above the law

Unfortunatly for most retail staff, these companies will have a staff somewhere that is responsible for making sure they are working within the law. Chances are they will know the law better than a bit of googling/our interpretations of the law. They will be following the letter of the law, but not always the 'spirit' of the law.
As such it will be very hard to prove the company to be wrong legally.

Unfortunatly for most retail staff, these companies will have a staff somewhere that is responsible for making sure they are working within the law. Chances are they will know the law better than a bit of googling/our interpretations of the law. They will be following the letter of the law, but not always the 'spirit' of the law.
As such it will be very hard to prove the company to be wrong legally.

I agree partly, but when I worked for one of these Companies, there was no HR or legal department looking after staff - that was too costly and those sort of companies pride themselves in minimal staff in order to keep overall costs down.

Of course they will have people who know employment law...and no doubt the contract of employment will stipulate that workers will be expected to work overtime as the needs of the business dictate...however, this clause that is in contracts also has to be reasonable - and as I explained in my post, Katy should not have to compromise the care of her children in terms of the demand being unfair from her Manager - which is why I suggested an informal discussion first. I can pretty much guarantee there would be no HR person to get involved - it would go direct to the Area Manager.

I agree partly, but when I worked for one of these Companies, there was no HR or legal department looking after staff - that was too costly and those sort of companies pride themselves in minimal staff in order to keep overall costs down.

Of course they will have people who know employment law...and no doubt the contract of employment will stipulate that workers will be expected to work overtime as the needs of the business dictate...however, this clause that is in contracts also has to be reasonable - and as I explained in my post, Katy should not have to compromise the care of her children in terms of the demand being unfair from her Manager - which is why I suggested an informal discussion first. I can pretty much guarantee there would be no HR person to get involved - it would go direct to the Area Manager.

very true about minimal staff to keep costs down and my contract does state that i have that to work to company requirements but it doesnt say i have to work an extra hour for no pay ok i understand the shop need cleaning but !! surely if were there for an hour plus doing so then surely we should be paid for it ???


ive loked over my contract and it says nothing about not getting paid or getting paid for it:confused:

It's probably not illegal to ask you to work for no pay, but if you refuse and they discipline you, then that is.
Basically you just have to say no. otherwise they will keep taking advantage of you.

In terms of right/wrong then clearly (to me) it is wrong to expect this extra unpaid time.
In legal terms however I doubt the shop would risk potentially huge problems by doing something like this illegally.
Guess USDAW( union of shop and...??..workers ) or citizens advice would be best bet to check if you feel the particular company might risk it.

It's probably not illegal to ask you to work for no pay, .


quite right its not the choice is yours in theory.

however how many people turn up to work late or sit too their desk after 9am and still get paid, how many start to wind down @ 4pm and still get paid until 5 or whatever.

i am aware this doesn't relate to kathybean's situation but please people you do need to take a look at yourselves before you start spouting time & motion law.

very true about minimal staff to keep costs down and my contract does state that i have that to work to company requirements but it doesnt say i have to work an extra hour for no pay ok i understand the shop need cleaning but !! surely if were there for an hour plus doing so then surely we should be paid for it ???


ive loked over my contract and it says nothing about not getting paid or getting paid for it:confused:


that is a usual clause in all standard contracts these days. if u r paid hourly you should be entitled to claiming it as overtime on your extra hours.

quite right its not the choice is yours in theory.

however how many people turn up to work late or sit too their desk after 9am and still get paid, how many start to wind down @ 4pm and still get paid until 5 or whatever.

i am aware this doesn't relate to kathybean's situation but please people you do need to take a look at yourselves before you start spouting time & motion law.

It is not time and motion law...but employment law...

The law is stated as at 25 November 2005


Can an employer insist that part-time workers increase their hours to meet the needs of the business?


No, employers cannot insist that part-time workers increase their hours to meet the needs of the business. If a worker or an employee has a contractual arrangement that they work a specified number of hours, any unilateral attempt to change that arrangement by the employer will constitute a breach of contract by the employer. Such insistence by an employer may give rise to a claim for indirect sex discrimination, automatically unfair dismissal, breach of the Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 or contravention of the flexible working legislation.

It is not time and motion law...but employment law...

The law is stated as at 25 November 2005


Can an employer insist that part-time workers increase their hours to meet the needs of the business?


No, employers cannot insist that part-time workers increase their hours to meet the needs of the business. If a worker or an employee has a contractual arrangement that they work a specified number of hours, any unilateral attempt to change that arrangement by the employer will constitute a breach of contract by the employer. Such insistence by an employer may give rise to a claim for indirect sex discrimination, automatically unfair dismissal, breach of the Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 or contravention of the flexible working legislation.


wow that just went right over my head:confused: :D

That's not the real issue here anyway.

The real issue is that katy is being expected to work for free and put under pressure to do so.

I doubt there's ever a case where an employer has the right to force people to work for free.

It is not time and motion law...but employment law...

The law is stated as at 25 November 2005


Can an employer insist that part-time workers increase their hours to meet the needs of the business?


No, employers cannot insist that part-time workers increase their hours to meet the needs of the business. If a worker or an employee has a contractual arrangement that they work a specified number of hours, any unilateral attempt to change that arrangement by the employer will constitute a breach of contract by the employer. Such insistence by an employer may give rise to a claim for indirect sex discrimination, automatically unfair dismissal, breach of the Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 or contravention of the flexible working legislation.

no one said the employer INSISTED , we all defended the fact that they break no rules by ASKING them to work extra.

my comment re: time & motion probably bypassed you - it was a sarcastic comment directed at previous attempts by employers to make sure they got a days work for a days pay.

Why cant the company get in contract cleaners to undertake this cleaning task and if the company has unions, couldnt the issue be referred to the shop steward to sort out?

Why cant the company get in contract cleaners to undertake this cleaning task
The same reason they are using staff to do it...saving money.

It is not time and motion law...but employment law...

The law is stated as at 25 November 2005


Can an employer insist that part-time workers increase their hours to meet the needs of the business?


No, employers cannot insist that part-time workers increase their hours to meet the needs of the business. If a worker or an employee has a contractual arrangement that they work a specified number of hours, any unilateral attempt to change that arrangement by the employer will constitute a breach of contract by the employer. Such insistence by an employer may give rise to a claim for indirect sex discrimination, automatically unfair dismissal, breach of the Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2000 or contravention of the flexible working legislation.

What the law states as at any particular date is entirely academic because enforcement of one's legal rights can all too often be extremely difficult for people without any legal experience.

The problem is compounded by the lack of legal aid and advice services reducing provision at an alarming rate. Obtaining legal aid has become a post code lottery and is now generally only possible to instruct a legal aid solicitor within one's region.

It thoroughly amazes me how most supermarket checkout staff remain polite and friendly whilst working for slave drivers and dealing with a lot of very rude customers.

A very old friend took early retirement from a senior management position in the steel industry and thought that a part time job at a leading supermarket would be just the ticket. He walked out on the second day having been treated like an infant by a nob head manager. He has now found a part time job back in the steel industry where he is treated as a human being and payed a damned sight more than a supermarket pays.

It thoroughly amazes me how most supermarket checkout staff remain polite and friendly whilst working for slave drivers and dealing with a lot of very rude customers.

A very old friend took early retirement from a senior management position in the steel industry and thought that a part time job at a leading supermarket would be just the ticket. He walked out on the second day having been treated like an infant by a nob head manager. He has now found a part time job back in the steel industry where he is treated as a human being and payed a damned sight more than a supermarket pays.

I often found the customers were like that too....assuming because you are working in a shop that you must be stupid and not capable of better...really used to get wound up by that :(

What the law states as at any particular date is entirely academic because enforcement of one's legal rights can all too often be extremely difficult for people without any legal experience.



In this case the answer for Katie and others in a similar position is to join a union, - USDAW seems the most appropriate http://www.usdaw.org.uk/

Expert legal help in matters of employment law are part of the package, and your employer doesn't need to know you are a member. £1.86/week seems a small price to pay for the legal protection and employment advice available.

Name and Shame them! Come on!!!bet its netto,lidl or aldi

In this case the answer for Katie and others in a similar position is to join a union, - USDAW seems the most appropriate http://www.usdaw.org.uk/

Expert legal help in matters of employment law are part of the package, and your employer doesn't need to know you are a member. £1.86/week seems a small price to pay for the legal protection and employment advice available.

have recieved the paper work from this union today and have filled it in and it is in the post already cheers guys:thumbsup:

That looks like an excellent package greybeard. Cor you didnt hang about there did you katy? Hope you get it sorted.

just read most of the thread, my son was working for M*******, and him and his mate were not told about their break but the rest of the staff were and when my son asked when could they take a break, they were told, oh your too late, you've missed it and expected them to work thought the night stacking shelves but my son and his mate went for the break but the supervisor got stoppy about it , result my son and his mate worked the rest of the shift but didn't go in the next day ( stupid , i know but you can't tell a teenage anything) so now claiming JSA in being questioned, any advice? but this was in Surrey and son left job cos he knew he was moving back to sheffield anyway

also was my son right in taking a break , could it be discrimation that the rest of the staff were told and not them (the reason I ask that is cos supervisor was black/foreign as were most of the staff, not trying to offend or upset anyone by saying this but just giving the facts)
thanks
Josie

Hi Josie - Just read your thread from few weeks ago...Has your son sorted things out?

Hi Katy, sounds like you chose the wrong supermarket to work for!
I work for a large supermarket and at least we get the breaks we're entitled to as well as plenty of benefits, try your luck with another store sounds like you need to get out of the place you're in now.....come join us girl!!!!:thumbsup:

good luck ....jules

Hi Josie - Just read your thread from few weeks ago...Has your son sorted things out?

no, JSA are still sending him forms to fill in and havn't awarded any money as yet and to make things worse, hubby is off work finally getting an operation and as a family we are living on £68 a week statutory sick pay!!!!! , no income support, nothing!!!!! :-(