View Full Version : The problems in Europe - from a German perspective


green
02-02-2012, 21:48
Taken from this article in the Telegraph : - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9055142/Bundesbank-sinks-deeper-into-debt-saving-Europe.html#disqus_thread

The best rated comment, is from a German, and i thought id share it with you.

Elikal Ialborcales
22 hours ago
As a German, I started to read foreign press, ideally British press like the Telegraph, because, essentially, here in Germany my fellow countrymen are by and large lied to by the press, and way too many details like this fall under the carpet.

For me the entire ongoings in Europe are horrible. What few people outside Germany realize is, how bad the financial situation of Germany itself really is. While the companies and stockholders in Germany may get rich with the booming exports, the German state is highly in debt himself, many of the German states (Bundesländer) are close to bankrupt, and this news just adds to it. It is highly unfortunate that the German goverment has lost every reason. Most Germans fail to see how the entire Euro concept creates the very thing it was meant to reduce: it creates more and new hate between people and nations. Demading souvreign contries to cease its autonomy, setting ultimatums! So far has our politics come to! What horrible days to live in.

But it looks like a fast train hellbent to wreck, and no one seems to have any reason or will to stop the coming catastrophe. Now as it is we will either see the very death of Democracy in a Euro Goverment in the long term; and already people are in power in the EU who NOBODY elected, who nobody knows and who never can be voted out by the people! Or we see a giant economic breakdown. This entire EU and Euro project is a gaint catastrophe. Cooperation and peace between nations is a noble goal, but it was built on the ignorance of every reasonable concept, like souvernity of the nations of people, democracy and leaving people their economic autonomy! It was the diversity of the European nations which was our strength, not forcing them all into a corset! I fear this hubris of politicians will all cost us much in every country of the EU.

I really respect and envy the UK for having kept their souvrenity.

Does anyone disagree with his thoughts?

Rich
02-02-2012, 21:58
He's only saying what everybody else has been saying for several years but nobody listens.

But IMO most Germans think the rest of Europe owes them a living, they've thought that since WW2, since their Military forces got handed their arses by the US forces.

libuse
02-02-2012, 22:08
He's only saying what everybody else has been saying for several years but nobody listens.

But IMO most Germans think the rest of Europe owes them a living, they've thought that since WW2, since their Military forces got handed their arses by the US forces.

Have you spent much time in Germany, Rich, amongst German people? I've yet to meet one that anywhere near matches your description

Muldoon
02-02-2012, 22:24
He's only saying what everybody else has been saying for several years but nobody listens.

But IMO most Germans think the rest of Europe owes them a living, they've thought that since WW2, since their Military forces got handed their arses by the US forces.

Now that is a very self opinionated reply Rich, hence the IMO but just how many Germans have you met or spoke to over the internet that share your opinions ? I dont think your quote "since their Military forces got handed their arses by the US forces." is very fair. The german people just like us, do not all agree that Hitler was right, they do not like being likened to the steriotypical hitler loving silly walk, jew killing monsters of the past either ! The OP said from a german perspective so I would imagine that the OP is looking for Germanic people to post their replies or people that know Germans very well. I only know one German person and he is a pain in the arse, anti communist so I wont be asking him for an opinion.

JFKvsNixon
02-02-2012, 22:27
He's only saying what everybody else has been saying for several years but nobody listens.

But IMO most Germans think the rest of Europe owes them a living, they've thought that since WW2, since their Military forces got handed their arses by the US forces.

I didn't think that it was possible for you to say anything more ignorant than your attack upon people with dyslexia. I was wrong.

Harleyman
03-02-2012, 01:44
He's only saying what everybody else has been saying for several years but nobody listens.

But IMO most Germans think the rest of Europe owes them a living, they've thought that since WW2, since their Military forces got handed their arses by the US forces.

Not hardly. While France and Britain were ruining their economies in post war Europe with strikes and games of loony politics the Germans were working their butts off to rebuild their country.

If they're the Big Dogs now it's because they worked for it.

hard2miss
03-02-2012, 02:24
Not hardly. While France and Britain were ruining their economies in post war Europe with strikes and games of loony politics the Germans were working their butts off to rebuild their country.

If they're the Big Dogs now it's because they worked for it.Had nothing to do with the Billions we put into the cold war and Germany not even needing an army then ?

The fact that they had to build from scratch while we made do with what we could scrounge from their factories by way of war remunerations, or the debt that we owed America for taking part?

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110901043145AAlqw6J

VideoPro
03-02-2012, 10:54
He's only saying what everybody else has been saying for several years but nobody listens.

But IMO most Germans think the rest of Europe owes them a living, they've thought that since WW2, since their Military forces got handed their arses by the US forces.

Are you addicted to reading "Boy's Own" comics from the 1950's?
You know, the one that only ever depicted Germans as being called Fritz and shouting "Donnerwetter!" as they were blown up by ze Tommys?

I left Sheffield for Hamburg 23 years ago. I have never once met someone with the attitude you describe. Funny, you have probably never been any further than Worksop, yet possess this unique insight.

In my experience, most Germans just want to get on with their lives, raise their kids and have a decent home to live in. Pretty much just like most British people do. Mention the war in conversation with older Germans and you will likely be greeted by shock, shame and embarrassment on their part. Not because they "feel they are owed a living", but because they know what happened back then was terribly, terribly wrong. The younger generation are affected less, after all they played no part in it. But don't expect them to tell you nasty jokes about Jews.

As to the OP, many people are upset about what Merkel -and Schröder before her - have done to the economy here. There is a lot of money to be made if you are a big fish in the finance and banking sector. Unfortunately, that's something reserved for a select few.

VideoPro
03-02-2012, 12:10
....Germany not even needing an army then ?


Germany has an army, navy and air force. They only abolished compulsory national service in July last year. The constitution restricts it to strictly defensive activities.

green
03-02-2012, 16:27
As to the OP, many people are upset about what Merkel -and Schröder before her - have done to the economy here. There is a lot of money to be made if you are a big fish in the finance and banking sector. Unfortunately, that's something reserved for a select few.


Thank you for your comments, it's nice to hear from someone who is closer to the epi centre of the EU.

How do most Germans view the current issues in Greece. Is their an alternative press? Are bankers still viewed with rose tainted glasses still?

green
03-02-2012, 16:27
The constitution restricts it to strictly defensive activities.

If only ours were the same... :(

tinfoilhat
03-02-2012, 16:34
Germany has an army, navy and air force. They only abolished compulsory national service in July last year. The constitution restricts it to strictly defensive activities.

Well, strictish, there are 5000 troops in afghanistan.

But back on topic, who do the average Germans "envy" (if that's the right word). I think alot of Brits are envious of their skilled manufacturing base etc but obviously it isn't all milk and honey. Who do they look at and think "that's what we should be doing"

VideoPro
03-02-2012, 23:07
Thank you for your comments, it's nice to hear from someone who is closer to the epi centre of the EU.

How do most Germans view the current issues in Greece. Is their an alternative press? Are bankers still viewed with rose tainted glasses still?

The city where I live, Hamburg is one of the wealthiest -it's also a state in its own right. It's home to the 2nd or 3rd largest deep water port in Europe and there's an enormous infrastructure built around that with plenty of jobs. Add to that some of the finest universities, science and medical reasearch facilities and an load of publishing, electronic media etc, it's a pretty nice place to call home. It's also home to the St. Pauli football club, which is entirely owned by its very creative, left leaning supporters and was the first in Europe to adopt a stadium charter against racism, sexism and homophobia.

To see how the financial crisis is really hurting, a look at the situation in North Rhine Westphalia, particularly the former heavy industry Ruhr area puts things into perspective. The Ruhr was much like Sheffield and its surrounding area used to be. Steel, coal and chemicals industries are still productive but quickly being wound down. There's that familiar move to non-productive service industries or long term unemployment for the not so lucky. This is where you will find the greatest fear that rescuing the Greeks, Italians and Spanish will be carried out at great cost to normal people.

Merkel tries to give the impression that there is some magical Euro mountain to pay for it all. But animosity is building and I can't see her winning the next election.

There is definitely an alternative press. The Tageszeitung (Daily Paper) is probably the better known publication. Very critical and incisive with a wicked sense of humour. Die Welt, Frankfürter Allgemein, and the Süddeutsche are the "balanced and fair" Guardian type papers. Bild and Express are German equivalents of The Sun and Mirror.

The bankers are rightly seen as scum by most decent people.

Well, strictish, there are 5000 troops in afghanistan.

But back on topic, who do the average Germans "envy" (if that's the right word). I think alot of Brits are envious of their skilled manufacturing base etc but obviously it isn't all milk and honey. Who do they look at and think "that's what we should be doing"

The German ISAF contingent is limited to a humanitarian role and also trains Afghani police recruits. The non-combat aspect of German troops stationed on foreign soil is a really huge issue here. It is so deeply ingrained into how and what people think the military should be that a defence minister sending the armed forces into a war of aggression would be committing political suicide. Should it ever happen, it could certainly bring down the government of the day.

Harleyman
03-02-2012, 23:45
Had nothing to do with the Billions we put into the cold war and Germany not even needing an army then ?

The fact that they had to build from scratch while we made do with what we could scrounge from their factories by way of war remunerations, or the debt that we owed America for taking part?

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110901043145AAlqw6J

Course they had an army. The new postwar German army came about in the early 1950s and NATO wasn't just about defending West Germany against any Soviet aggression but the whole of Europe including Britain with it

The Marshall Plan funded by the US taxpayers was responsible for rebuilding Germany after WW2

Churchill agreed to the Lend Lease plan put forward by Roosevelt in 1940.
It was a clever way to get around America violating it's neutrality status by openly supplying weapons for cash to a foreign country in a state of war with another

Lend Lease was exactly what it said. America lends/leases weaponry in return for said equipment to be returned later or cash in lieu thereof.

green
05-02-2012, 15:03
Merkel tries to give the impression that there is some magical Euro mountain to pay for it all. But animosity is building and I can't see her winning the next election.

Ive thought for a while that it will be the German people who will stand up to the banks in the end. I hope im right.