Not seen the news on the TV for a couple of days and spotted this as front page news in the Sun (yes I know bad paper, but it was in the pub on the table!)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004152414,00.html

Tried to search the BBC website but there is nothing on there about this.

Was wondering if anyone knows what is going on, and what your thoughts are?

I know that he is a fanatic Muslim and I'm not blaming Muslims in general as there are only a few fanatics like this and the majority of Muslims would be outraged by this, but do you think people like this should be allowed to stay in this country holding a British passport??

i think anyone regardless of race who burns a union jack should be prosecuted......i... is it true that if you did the same thing in america you can end up in jail:o

Originally posted by panda79
i think anyone regardless of race who burns a union jack should be prosecuted......i... is it true that if you did the same thing in america you can end up in jail:o

I believe that is true.

Originally posted by Foxxx

Tried to search the BBC website but there is nothing on there about this.


No suprises there.

Originally posted by Foxxx

I know that he is a fanatic Muslim and I'm not blaming Muslims in general as there are only a few fanatics like this and the majority of Muslims would be outraged by this, but do you think people like this should be allowed to stay in this country holding a British passport??


No i don't think they should be allowed to hold a British passport,i personally think they shouldn't be allowed to stay in this country either. I really don't fancy being a victim of the U.K's first suicide bomber.:(

I do not believe in expelling people from the country for holding a particular point of view, no matter how unpopular it is.


Susie, equal opportunist

Originally posted by SusieP
[B]I do not believe in expelling people from the country for holding a particular point of view, no matter how unpopular it is.
B]

Well i think expelling them would be doing them a favour,i mean if they hate this country so much why would they want to stay??

Originally posted by SusieP
I do not believe in expelling people from the country for holding a particular point of view, no matter how unpopular it is.


I believe that, if you want to live in Britain, you should be British and proud of it. Note that I don't mean you should be white, or christian, but you should value the British way of life. You should be proud of your country and be prepared to defend it, not attack it.

If you don't like Britain, that's fine. **** off and live somewhere else.

Originally posted by Foxxx
Not seen the news on the TV for a couple of days and spotted this as front page news in the Sun (yes I know bad paper, but it was in the pub on the table!)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004152414,00.html

Tried to search the BBC website but there is nothing on there about this.

Was wondering if anyone knows what is going on, and what your thoughts are?

I know that he is a fanatic Muslim and I'm not blaming Muslims in general as there are only a few fanatics like this and the majority of Muslims would be outraged by this, but do you think people like this should be allowed to stay in this country holding a British passport??

I do accept that the majority of Muslims in this country are peacefull and law abiding, indeed, I have some good friends who are Muslims and thoroughly nice people.

However, I agree with you that anyone preaching hatred and violence should be deported immediately and have their passport confiscated.

They wouldn't get away with it in any other country, and we should not allow it here, this fanatic with the hook for a hand ,is a disgrace to humanity and ought to be booted out forthwith.

Originally posted by mr craig
Well i think expelling them would be doing them a favour,i mean if they hate this country so much why would they want to stay??

I don't know - ask them, not me!

Originally posted by Andy
I believe that, if you want to live in Britain, you should be British and proud of it. Note that I don't mean you should be white, or christian, but you should value the British way of life. You should be proud of your country and be prepared to defend it, not attack it.

If you don't like Britain, that's fine. **** off and live somewhere else.

I'm not proud of my country. It's a badly run shambles, and I feel like I pay a lot more in tax than I get a return for. I won't defend this country just because I was born and live here, that is akin to an adult commanding respect from a child, merely based on their ages.

And why is it so bad to criticise this country? Would you prefer that we all just accept what the Government says, and unquestioningly agree with them, Mr. Hitler?


Susie, unpatriotic.

Originally posted by SusieP

I'm not proud of my country. It's a badly run shambles, and I feel like I pay a lot more in tax than I get a return for. I won't defend this country just because I was born and live here, that is akin to an adult commanding respect from a child, merely based on their ages.

Why do you still live here then?


And why is it so bad to criticise this country? Would you prefer that we all just accept what the Government says, and unquestioningly agree with them, Mr. Hitler?


Not saying it's bad to criticise the government, or things about this country. But burning our flag is not acceptable. Why go to live in a country if you hate it?

Susie, I'm off to burn a Pakistani flag outside the mosque this morning. Is that ok?

Originally posted by SusieP


And why is it so bad to criticise this country? Would you prefer that we all just accept what the Government says, and unquestioningly agree with them, Mr. Hitler?


Susie, unpatriotic.

Theres a BIG difference between criticising this country and the hatred showen by these flag burning idiots.These people would probably be very happy to see you,your family and thousands of others to blown to bits,shot or what ever.

I to don't like the way this country is run,but i'm not about to start burning flags and preaching the death of thousands of "infidels"(sp) over it.



Edit:- is it me or is the forum clock an hour fast?????:confused:

Originally posted by SusieP
I don't know - ask them, not me!



i believe people are asking you because you appear to be one of these people who have no respect for this country. perhaps you would change your tune if you or your family were victims of terrorist activities?

Originally posted by SusieP

And why is it so bad to criticise this country? Would you prefer that we all just accept what the Government says, and unquestioningly agree with them, Mr. Hitler?



isn't this what the ballot box is supposed to be for?

Originally posted by Foxxx
but do you think people like this should be allowed to stay in this country holding a British passport??

If he's British where do you suggest we send him?

Just to be pedantic, its the Union FLAG when on land.
Its the Union JACK only when on board ship, or in a naval station.

And its amazing how many people across Britain who will probably complain about the mistreatment of the flag yet still fly it UPSIDE DOWN when they display it!

As for burning it, its an attack/insult to all people who serve orr have died in defence of what it stands for. Yes, Britain is a badly run shambles at the moment but that is the politician's faults not the British people's (and what the flag stands for).

I think that this was nothing more than a stunt set up by the press.

However, I would happily make it an offence to deface a national symbol (The flag - not Tony Blair)

Originally posted by max
If he's British where do you suggest we send him?

how about Wales?

Why do you still live here then?

Convenience, although I am taking action towards moving elsewhere.


Not saying it's bad to criticise the government, or things about this country. But burning our flag is not acceptable. Why go to live in a country if you hate it?

Susie, I'm off to burn a Pakistani flag outside the mosque this morning. Is that ok?

re: part one: To convince people who live there about your point of view

re: part two: Of course it is.



i believe people are asking you because you appear to be one of these people who have no respect for this country. perhaps you would change your tune if you or your family were victims of terrorist activities?

Has "terrorism" and "terrorist activity" really become this much of a buzzword? "You like X? But what if terrorists... ". Sorry, not buying it.

how about Wales?

I wouldn't be that cruel ;)


All I am stating, and it seems to have been blown completely out of proportion, is that people should have the right to say what they want, when they want. Of course, other people have the right to respond to those comments. If he wants to burn a flag, then why should he be thrown out of the country? The Government should take it into consideration when processing his benefits, right to live here etc, but there's no reason to throw him out just because his statements are offensive and unpopular.


Susie, who's been through this with the Bernard Manning discussion

Originally posted by SusieP
Susie, who's been through this with the Bernard Manning discussion

oh no, not him again!

Originally posted by SusieP

All I am stating, and it seems to have been blown completely out of proportion, is that people should have the right to say what they want, when they want. Of course, other people have the right to respond to those comments. If he wants to burn a flag, then why should he be thrown out of the country? The Government should take it into consideration when processing his benefits, right to live here etc, but there's no reason to throw him out just because his statements are offensive and unpopular.


Susie, who's been through this with the Bernard Manning discussion


Surely you can see that theres a vast difference between people "saying what they want, when they want" and preaching hatred and inciting violence against innocent civilians? Would you be so quick to defend the freedom of speech if the people were not muslims inciting violence against the British, but were hardcore BNP members inciting violence against Muslims? Or would you infact be crying "RACIST BIGOTS" faster than I could say "sandal wearing Guardian reader"?

It doesn't matter who says it, if it incites hatred then it's wrong.

Originally posted by t020
Surely you can see that theres a vast difference between people "saying what they want, when they want" and preaching hatred and inciting violence against innocent civilians? Would you be so quick to defend the freedom of speech if the people were not muslims inciting violence against the British, but were hardcore BNP members inciting violence against Muslims? Or would you infact be crying "RACIST BIGOTS" faster than I could say "sandal wearing Guardian reader"?


Please do not presume my opinions, t020, I thought you were better than that. No, I have genuinely no problem with people "preaching hatred". I do have a problem with inciting violence, as that is illegal.

Susie, seeing why you are disliked

if you have no problem with people preaching hatred then you are a very sad individual. little wonder the world is in the state it is in today. seems like the sooner you move somewhere else the better.

Where do you draw the line, Killian? Do you ban people from speaking against the country? Or just flag burning? What about criticism of the Government? Or any kind of "hate speech"? Do you stop people from criticising homosexuals? Black people? Dead people? Celebrities? Middle class, middle aged white males? How about pro-paedophilia speech?

Once you start saying, "no - you can't voice that opinion", you're on a slippery slope towards banning other opinions, and that, my friend, is a dangerous state.

Susie, free speech advocate.

Originally posted by SusieP
Where do you draw the line, Killian? Do you ban people from speaking against the country? Or just flag burning? What about criticism of the Government? Or any kind of "hate speech"? Do you stop people from criticising homosexuals? Black people? Dead people? Celebrities? Middle class, middle aged white males? How about pro-paedophilia speech?

Once you start saying, "no - you can't voice that opinion", you're on a slippery slope towards banning other opinions, and that, my friend, is a dangerous state.

Susie, free speech advocate.

luckily, i live in the West Country where we seem to escape much of the hatred which seems to be part of day to day life in the rest of the country. i hope it stays that way.

just out of interest, where are you planning on moving to which will allow you the type of free speech you are advocating?

Don't worry, the West Country will leave the 70s one day ;)

And I am currently looking at homes in Long Island, New York.

Originally posted by SusieP
Don't worry, the West Country will leave the 70s one day ;)



hope not, i love the 70's. long may it continue having seen what 21st century is like elsewhere.

Originally posted by SusieP
Don't worry, the West Country will leave the 70s one day ;)

And I am currently looking at homes in Long Island, New York.
Wow you must be loaded then.

i stayed at a friend of mine's homeo on Long Island last year.
All $4m worth of it.

Had a nice time in his outdoor heated pool and spa, as well as playing him a tennis on his own court.
Jammy bugger!

Originally posted by SusieP

And I am currently looking at homes in Long Island, New York.


Maybe you could share your thoughts with the families of the 9/11 victims there then? See how your new neighbours take to you having no problem with muslims preaching anti-US hatred.

Please spare me. This 9/11 overreaction is ridiculous. You know as well as I do about the first amendment. "Hi, my name's Susie and I agree with free speech but not for people who are anti-US."

I agree though, it would be unpopular. But popular and correct aren't the same thing. Although you are neither.

Susie, irritated

Originally posted by SusieP
Please spare me. This 9/11 overreaction is ridiculous. You know as well as I do about the first amendment. "Hi, my name's Susie and I agree with free speech but not for people who are anti-US."

I agree though, it would be unpopular. But popular and correct aren't the same thing. Although you are neither.

Susie, irritated


Over reaction??? 3,000 people died FFS. Extreme BNP members preach racial hatred towards Asians/ Blacks - do you think this is OK too?

Originally posted by SusieP
Please spare me. This 9/11 overreaction is ridiculous. You know as well as I do about the first amendment. "Hi, my name's Susie and I agree with free speech but not for people who are anti-US."

I agree though, it would be unpopular. But popular and correct aren't the same thing. Although you are neither.

Susie, irritated

sorry, susie, but you are beginning to sound ever-so-slightly contradictory. you want complete freedom of speech, no matter what, but you are going to live in a country where you will almost certainly not be able to say anything ant-USA, or even intend to judging by your last statement. isn't this hypocritical? if you think everyone is over-reacting to 9/11 let us hope you stick to your principles and actually point this out to your new American friends and neighbours.

you are beginning to remind me of those privileged people who live in their big house on the hill, safe from the outside world, never having experienced what's its like to live in the real world, but have plenty to say about it nevertheless.

Originally posted by t020
Over reaction??? 3,000 people died FFS. Extreme BNP members preach racial hatred towards Asians/ Blacks - do you think this is OK too?


Good, thanks for reading. There's no need to bring up 9/11 or terrorism with EVERYTHING, "FFS".

Since you've proven to have zero comprehension skills, here's my easy to follow guide to my views:

1) People should be able to say what they like
2) I will defend the rights of people who say "kill all people of any group"
3) This does not mean that I agree with their statements.

Please go away now, you are insufferable.

Originally posted by Killian
sorry, susie, but you are beginning to sound ever-so-slightly contradictory. you want complete freedom of speech, no matter what, but you are going to live in a country where you will almost certainly not be able to say anything ant-USA, or even intend to judging by your last statement. isn't this hypocritical? if you think everyone is over-reacting to 9/11 let us hope you stick to your principles and actually point this out to your new American friends and neighbours.

you are beginning to remind me of those privileged people who live in their big house on the hill, safe from the outside world, never having experienced what's its like to live in the real world, but have plenty to say about it nevertheless.

Sorry, you're too stupid to reply to.

Originally posted by SusieP
Good, thanks for reading. There's no need to bring up 9/11 or terrorism with EVERYTHING, "FFS".

Since you've proven to have zero comprehension skills, here's my easy to follow guide to my views:

1) People should be able to say what they like
2) I will defend the rights of people who say "kill all people of any group"
3) This does not mean that I agree with their statements.

Please go away now, you are insufferable.



Sorry, you're too stupid to reply to.

Wow.... with a condescending and patronising approach like that, I think I have a rival to being the most unpopular forum member.

Can someone please explain to me ... why burning a flag is such a problem !?

After all ... it is only a piece of cloth with various colours on it ... nothing more.

It's not just the flag they're burning Jamie... it's what burning the flag represents to those who burn it.

They are doing it to say 'All Britons are in for it'.
That flag is our national (as the whole UK) symbol.

I think they should be sentenced for high treason... but then I may have a harsh view on that!

Originally posted by t020
Wow.... with a condescending and patronising approach like that, I think I have a rival to being the most unpopular forum member.
Don't worry t020... it's still just you :P

Originally posted by SusieP


Sorry, you're too stupid to reply to.

you should try reading your own posts for a change.

Originally posted by SusieP
2) I will defend the rights of people who say "kill all people of any group"


First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Jamie: Flag Burning represents destroying the country. It means they hate the country. So, once again, why live here?

from one who is completely stupid, apparently it is their given right to hate the country they live in.

I disagree.

IMO flag burning in itself represents only burning a bit of coloured cloth.

It is the energy and intention behind it that is the problem ... this can be illustrated by the 2 following scenarios.

a) A person buring a flag that's been rotting away at the bottom of a garden for years ... and they're just spring cleaning in the garden ... bonfire kinda thing.

b) People burning a flag in a public display as an expression of anger / hatred towards a particular country.

Both these are people burning flags ... if it's the burning of a flag that is wrong ... then these are just as bad as each other.

Originally posted by Jamie
a) A person buring a flag that's been rotting away at the bottom of a garden for years ... and they're just spring cleaning in the garden ... bonfire kinda thing.
Thats just playing with context.

Chris.

Another thing I don't get is ...

Why do people who hate the UK / US / whatever ... live here !?

If they hate the UK so much ... why do they not leave by their own free will !? ... obviously they will have more civil rights in a muslim counrty ... NOT !!!

The other thing is ... why do we let them stay !?

It's about protecting the citizens on the UK ... stuff their rights ... you can't be all goody goody about this kind of thing and let people who are saying they wanna blow us up ... have rights.

I think the UK is just way too soft for it's own good ... we're far too accomodating ... you give people an inch ... they take a mile.

To live with your fellow earthlings in peace and love is a truly wonderful thing ... and (most people would agree) much better than war ... but when it's just you and the other guy ... and he IS GOING TO TRY AND KILL YOU ... and it's him or you ... there is not much scope for being civilised is there !?

Originally posted by Chris_Sleeps
Thats just playing with context.

Chris.

No ... it's illustrating that flag burning in and of itself is not offensive ... people take offence to the meaning that they attach to the act of flag burning.

Well ... actually it's more like taking offence to the energy and intention of the people who are burning the flag.

I seem to remember that when the two Leeds supporters were stabbed to death in Turkey,the defence for the actions was that the supporters had abused the Turkish flag .More than just a coloured bit of cloth in some areas !

That's the problem ...

To some people ... things are more than just what they are ...

Originally posted by SusieP
Please spare me. This 9/11 overreaction is ridiculous. You know as well as I do about the first amendment. "Hi, my name's Susie and I agree with free speech but not for people who are anti-US."

I agree though, it would be unpopular. But popular and correct aren't the same thing. Although you are neither.

Susie, irritated

Do you have any idea how pretentious and annoying it is that you feel the need to inform everyone of your current state of mind at the end of every post?

ie "Susie, irritated"
"Susie, unpatriotic"
"Susie, free speech advocate"


What next? Can we expect to see:

"Susie, really pis*ed off this time", or "Susie, not feeling quite so angry now I've had a cup of coffee and a fag".

Please, don't do it anymore, it's SO pathetic.

thanks,

mojo: reading the Beano and feeling quite laid back

Originally posted by Jamie
Another thing I don't get is ...

Why do people who hate the UK / US / whatever ... live here !?

If they hate the UK so much ... why do they not leave by their own free will !? ... obviously they will have more civil rights in a muslim counrty ... NOT !!!

The other thing is ... why do we let them stay !?

It's about protecting the citizens on the UK ... stuff their rights ... you can't be all goody goody about this kind of thing and let people who are saying they wanna blow us up ... have rights.

I think the UK is just way too soft for it's own good ... we're far too accomodating ... you give people an inch ... they take a mile.

To live with your fellow earthlings in peace and love is a truly wonderful thing ... and (most people would agree) much better than war ... but when it's just you and the other guy ... and he IS GOING TO TRY AND KILL YOU ... and it's him or you ... there is not much scope for being civilised is there !?

They live in the UK because we're a soft touch and they can claim all manner of state hand-outs, while at the same time preaching hatred at the godless country that took them in.

Originally posted by mojoworking
Do you have any idea how pretentious and annoying it is that you feel the need to inform everyone of your current state of mind at the end of every post?

ie "Susie, irritated"
"Susie, unpatriotic"
"Susie, free speech advocate"


What next? Can we expect to see:

"Susie, really pis*ed off this time", or "Susie, not feeling quite so angry now I've had a cup of coffee and a fag".

Please, don't do it anymore, it's SO pathetic.

thanks,

mojo: reading the Beano and feeling quite laid back

Okay, I won't do it any more.


Susie, who lied.

Originally posted by SusieP
Okay, I won't do it any more.


Susie, who lied.

Well, er, thank you.

mojo, not entirely convinced

Originally posted by mojoworking
They live in the UK because we're a soft touch and they can claim all manner of state hand-outs, while at the same time preaching hatred at the godless country that took them in.

That's pretty much my feeling too ... we are way too soft and civil and it's just not appropriate in this day and age.

There actions should be classed as a declaration of war.

Originally posted by Jamie
That's pretty much my feeling too ... we are way too soft and civil and it's just not appropriate in this day and age.

There actions should be classed as a declaration of war.

One or two questions for you:

Which of there(sic) actions do you mean?
What exactly is a declaration of war?
Where do you draw the line between these actions and political dissent?
Who decides whether something is a valid protest or a declaration of war?
Or is it simply faith/race which decides someone's fate?

Originally posted by Jamie
There actions should be classed as a declaration of war.

By who on who? :confused:

Burning a flag isn't an insult to the government of that country, its an insult to the people who have/will fight and die for it.

If a crowd (of WW2 veterans) had kicked the ***** out of this bloke I bet there are people out there who would have wanted them locked up for assault. RACIST ASSAULT AT THAT.

And I bet these same people, if a British yob had burned an Afghan flag in the centre of Kabul, would have said its his fault when he gets killed for his actions.

The Union Flag isn't just a pattern on a pieces of cloth to me. Its what hundreds of thousands of people have died for. It also signifies the freedom that this Muslim yob abused when he insulted us all by burning it.

Originally posted by markham
Burning a flag isn't an insult to the government of that country, its an insult to the people who have/will fight and die for it.

If a crowd (of WW2 veterans) had kicked the ***** out of this bloke I bet there are people out there who would have wanted them locked up for assault. RACIST ASSAULT AT THAT.

And I bet these same people, if a British yob had burned an Afghan flag in the centre of Kabul, would have said its his fault when he gets killed for his actions.

The Union Flag isn't just a pattern on a pieces of cloth to me. Its what hundreds of thousands of people have died for. It also signifies the freedom that this Muslim yob abused when he insulted us all by burning it.

You're right on most counts. What you don't seem to understand is that the Union Jack also represents a society built on justice and law. In this country if you assault someone you expose yourself to the law whereas in other less just societies you can expect to be killed for the actions you describe.

We live in a democracy and you cannot go around either locking people up for political dissent or assaulting them with impunity.

Max and Tony:

Hmmm ... ok like everything else it's not so black and white ... and I can't answer your questions because it's not something I have given a great deal of thought to or read up on.

It simply feels wrong to me ... like allowing someone in to your home and feeding them ... while all along they are saying how much they hate you and how ungodly you are.

But yeah ... where do we draw the line !? ... my feeling is:

Sure there are many shades of grey ... and I don't think it's easy to define where you draw it ... other than the threat to our country / civillians a given organisation / individual poses.

You're right Jamie, there are lots of ways of looking at it, but you have to draw a line if you want a law of some kind. That's why I suggested that defacing a national symbol should be illegal, and maybe carry 60 days in clink?

We also live in a society with strict race laws whereby a BNP yob burning a Muslim flag in a Muslim area would surely be arrested (and charged) with inciting racial hatred. And rightly so!!

Anybody know what happened to this yob who insulted me and the majority of the British population by burning our flag? Once again I say that this wasn't an insult to the government, it was an ASSAULT on the British people, and therefore a criminal offence.

In my mind, anyone who burns the Union Flag on British soil ought to rot in hell. Hell being the much more pleasant and tolerant society that they so obviously prefer.

Originally posted by Tony
You're right Jamie, there are lots of ways of looking at it, but you have to draw a line if you want a law of some kind. That's why I suggested that defacing a national symbol should be illegal, and maybe carry 60 days in clink?

It's important (I feel) to differenciate between 'burning of flag' and the sentiment that triggerd that action.

It's the sentiment / intention / meaning that is the problem ... some people may burn a flag and not mean anything by it (maybe just innocently burning some old unused flag).

The 'anti-UK sentiment' may also take other forms ... and should be dealt with in the same manner as the kind of flag burning that you're thinking of.

I tend to agree with your idea re: defacing national symbols = 60 days in prison.

But something should be done ... it's a question of survival.

It gets around the "us and them" way that people tend to look at it, and it could be implemented in a clear and unambigous way with no cries of "you wouldnt do that to a minority", etc.

Mind you, would eating a plate of leeks get you locked up in Cardiff ? ;)

I attended a training course this weekend in bradford,on which there were several muslims, 3 of them born here in the UK and Two who had been here a month,all pleasant people i might add.

while talking to them,every one of them supported the 9/11 attacks and the continued killing of "occupying" troops in iraq,though not one of them was iraqi.

A very interesting aspect to this,was there was a seihk man there,who didnt appear to like the muslims much,but still agreed with them.they also saw the burning of the union flag as no big deal

it was a surreal experience to be in the company of people,who though civil and polite,and in some cases quite humorous,who genuinely believed the attacks in New york and the killing of us/uk troops was justified.though they did stress they wouldnt do it themselves as i understand the doctrine is that attacks on the host nation are forbidden,so the 8 arrested must be rogue elements if that is what they were up to

Having served in certain flash points around the globe i reserved comment,but i wondered how many more felt(with the genuine conviction these people did)that the western powers were currupt and deserved all they got.and i wondered why they chose to live here if this is how they felt

before certain individuals resume the racist bigot/BNP supporter accusations,these are their views not mine,but the phrase "biting the hand that feeds" spring to mind

if they dont respect us ,why live here,and ill concede that there are probably millions more who dont share their opinions before anyone else points that out,but its the few that do that can be the most dangerous

Originally posted by Jamie
It's important (I feel) to differenciate between 'burning of flag' and the sentiment that triggerd that action.

It's the sentiment / intention / meaning that is the problem ... some people may burn a flag and not mean anything by it (maybe just innocently burning some old unused flag).

The 'anti-UK sentiment' may also take other forms ... and should be dealt with in the same manner as the kind of flag burning that you're thinking of.

I tend to agree with your idea re: defacing national symbols = 60 days in prison.

But something should be done ... it's a question of survival.

Context again! Someone disgarding an old flag on a bonfire in their garden is not wrong. Same as throwing away an old bible because it is falling apart and the pages are torn. However, Invite a load of people over, turn it into a ceramony and celebrate the act while shouting abuse about British people deserving to die, is when it becomes an offence.

Originally posted by gizmo
I attended a training course this weekend in bradford,on which there were several muslims, 3 of them born here in the UK and Two who had been here a month,all pleasant people i might add.

while talking to them,every one of them supported the 9/11 attacks and the continued killing of "occupying" troops in iraq,though not one of them was iraqi.

A very interesting aspect to this,was there was a seihk man there,who didnt appear to like the muslims much,but still agreed with them.they also saw the burning of the union flag as no big deal

it was a surreal experience to be in the company of people,who though civil and polite,and in some cases quite humorous,who genuinely believed the attacks in New york and the killing of us/uk troops was justified.though they did stress they wouldnt do it themselves as i understand the doctrine is that attacks on the host nation are forbidden,so the 8 arrested must be rogue elements if that is what they were up to

Having served in certain flash points around the globe i reserved comment,but i wondered how many more felt(with the genuine conviction these people did)that the western powers were currupt and deserved all they got.and i wondered why they chose to live here if this is how they felt

before certain individuals resume the racist bigot/BNP supporter accusations,these are their views not mine,but the phrase "biting the hand that feeds" spring to mind

if they dont respect us ,why live here,and ill concede that there are probably millions more who dont share their opinions before anyone else points that out,but its the few that do that can be the most dangerous

I am quite shocked to be honest, I can't believe these people who live here would have these views.

What we have to remember is that the people who died in 9/11 are innocent people. They may not have agreed with what George Bush was doing, or they may have. Either way, it is irrelevent as they have no power to stop it, so why should they have suffered. I can't believe that these people on your course could think that it was OK to carry out this act of terrorism.

It's the same for us in the UK, our government did what they did without any sort of public vote. Why should we suffer. All we can do is vote in a new government next time.

Those are two very different scenarios you depict foxxx.

I guess you mean ... that within the context of this thread ... flag burning is 'more than' just burning coloured rags.

I just feel it is the 'more than' bit or the equasion that needs to be isolated and delt with appropriately. I accept this is not an easy thing to do.

This whole area seems very complex ...

On the one hand ... we don't want to incite any more hatred from these people by being too hard on them ... but then if we are too accomodating ... they just take advantage.

Then there is the question of why people have anti-UK / US feeling ...

I will now shut up and get back to work.

Originally posted by Foxxx
I am quite shocked to be honest, I can't believe these people who live here would have these views.

Dont get me wrong im not saying these were bad people,just that their views were a little on the radical side,they genuinely believed in what they were saying,of course what motivates such beliefs is down to everyones personal experience of the world at large,maybe they had lost relatives in a conflict somewhere and blamed the west

At the risk of being accused of racism, might I suggest that all future Union Flags are coated in pork fat so that only certain people dare touch them.

Or am I now guilty of using MY rights to free speech (the same rights this asshole was hiding behind) as an assault on an entire culture?

Burn effigies of Blair by all means, he's only temporary, but the flag is permanent and signifies the freedom and rights that enabled Ali-whatever-his-name to get away unscathed, and stopped the people who fought to uphold this freedom from lynching him.

Its about time that certain people also realised that the same citizens who abide by these laws can also very easily have these laws changed by the ballot, and one day, if it happens (God forbid) there's going to be some very bloody days ahead. Then, we'll see how much these people want to stay in the UK once their 'untouchable' tag has been removed.

Originally posted by Jamie
Those are two very different scenarios you depict foxxx.

I guess you mean ... that within the context of this thread ... flag burning is 'more than' just burning coloured rags.

I just feel it is the 'more than' bit or the equasion that needs to be isolated and delt with appropriately. I accept this is not an easy thing to do.

This whole area seems very complex ...

On the one hand ... we don't want to incite any more hatred from these people by being too hard on them ... but then if we are too accomodating ... they just take advantage.

Then there is the question of why people have anti-UK / US feeling ...

I will now shut up and get back to work.

I didn't depict the scenario's, you did! I was just explaining the difference of the two contexts of burning a flag that you gave.

I started the thread to hear what people have to say, and because I was puzzled that I couldn't find the news story on the BBC.

I put the link there so people could read the article and interpret it themselves and give their opinions.

In the context of this thread flag burning is what happened in Regents Park. It was a clear protest and threat, while buring a union jack flag. (Which wasn't even a real flag, if you look at the picture, they actually took time to hand-draw the flag)

So yes, in the context of this thread, if you look at the link, flag burning, is more than burning coloured rags.

BAYING Muslim fanatics torched a Union Jack in London yesterday — and sneered that Tony Blair is powerless to stop al-Qaeda bombing Britain.

In a sickening reference to the terror group’s evil boss Osama Bin Laden, the bigots chanted: “UK, you will pay, Bin Laden on his way.”
The shameful scenes — widely condemned by moderate Muslims — came as 20 thugs hijacked normally-peaceful afternoon prayers at the world-famous Regent’s Park mosque.

More than 1,000 law-abiding worshippers looked on in horror as the militants from UK-based extremist group al-Muhajiroun staged the ambush.

A large hand-drawn British flag was set on fire and a letter urging Muslims to reject terrorism was torn to shreds
In a ranting address, zealot Abdul Rehman Saleem praised the savage murders of four US civilians in Iraq.

Then as followers bayed, “Jihad for Blair” he gloated: “There is nothing the British Services or Tony Blair, this liar, can do to stop al-Qaeda.”

Meanwhile at Finsbury Park, North London, hook-handed renegade Abu Hamza branded British Muslims who bravely reject terror “Tony Blair’s prostitutes”.

The extremists were slammed by brave mosque regular Iqbal Ahmed, who said: “They twist the Koran for their own ends.”

Iqbal Sacranie, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, also denounced the fanatics.



Above is the gist of the story.

This pr!ck couldn't even copy the flag properly.

QUESTION. Why don't we just close our eyes and let the moderate Muslims sort these ungrateful, murdering clowns out for us?

ANSWER. Because true Muslims would never contemplate murder.

QUESTION. So who are they representing, these 'Sons of Allah'?

ANSWER. Nobody but themselves. Therefore they are TERRORISTS, and as such are criminals in our society and should be treated as such.

See new thread entitled ANAGRAM. (which has mysteriously disappeared)

Originally posted by markham
At the risk of being accused of racism, might I suggest that all future Union Flags are coated in pork fat so that only certain people dare touch them.



HAHAHAHHAA!!!!!!!!

If these people who burn our Union Jack flags hate our country so much why the hell do they live here:mad: If this happened in the USA these flag burners would have been deported by now..

Originally posted by markham
"At the risk of being accused of racism, might I suggest that all future Union Flags are coated in pork fat so that only certain people dare touch them."

Good point. I've never understood why people are so quick to play the racism card. I always thought Islam was a religion, not a race of people?

We in the west don't exactly help by playing into their hands for financial gain, though.

For example, Australia makes untold millions from the live sheep trade. The poor animals are shipped halfway across the world for months at a time in the most appalling conditions.

Many die during the journey to the middle east in the cramped multi-decked ships where the sheep are constantly covered in the excrement of those animals stacked above them.

To what purpose? Why can't the sheep be humanely killed in Australia and shipped as frozen carcasses? Because Muslim law says that the sheep must be killed in a particularly barbaric way, so that means they must be alive when they reach their destination.

When criticised for going along with this cruelty, the Aussie farmers simply shrug and take the view that "if we didn't do it, then some other country would sell them the live sheep".

Whenever an animal rights groups kicks off about the live sheep trade, the stock response from the Muslim community is to play the racism card straight away.

Originally posted by mojoworking
Whenever an animal rights groups kicks off about the live sheep trade, the stock response from the Muslim community is to play the racism card straight away.

Well I for one have NEVER heard of that situation. Can you cite some examples?

Did anyone see that BBC thing with Fiona Bruce last night at 7pm?

It was about this topic, the flag burning, and they interviewed fanatic muslims who sat there and stated that they would die for their cause and so to would any muslim. I think a lot of muslims might disagree being lumped together like that. He also felt that the terrorist acts that have taken place e.g. suicide bombing etc are not acts of terrorism! He has no fear and believes he too will die for his cause.
The prog also talked about how there is believed to be 200 british muslims who have been away to receive their training and are living here in an everyday way so that you would have no idea what they were thinking or up to. That made me think, whenever you hear of suspected terrorists being arrested, their family always say how they are innocent and they are just normal everyday people. Well they are just normal by the sounds of it, they don't walk around with a sign on their head! They work and live here but at any point could decide it is their time to become a martyr. Scary and Interesting programme. It is only a few who give themselves away by publically displaying their thoughts like that in regents park.

Originally posted by Tony
Well I for one have NEVER heard of that situation. Can you cite some examples?

Unless you want me to send you a videotape, you'll have to rely on my memory of events.

It's in the news quite often in Australia. The live sheep trade is based solely on the fact that Muslims have to kill the animals they eat in a certain way. So the sheep have to be transported live to the middle east in what are grossly inhumane conditions. And we're talking about millions of animals every year.

To we godless westerners this practice seems obviously barbaric.

Inevitably animal rights groups complain about the live sheep trade from time to time.

This is given media coverage, usually on TV with an animal rights campaigner, an apologist for the Aussie sheep farmers and a Muslim sitting round a table arguing the toss.

The debate invariably goes like this:

The Animal rights campaigner produces secret footage of the sheep being transported in squalid conditions in the name of Islam

The farmer complains that the footage was obtained illegally and says that it's an isolated example and anyway, if we didn't supply the middle east with live sheep, then someone else will and what about the Aussie farmers' jobs etc etc

The Muslim then accuses the animal rights person of racism for taking to task the part in the Koran where it apparently says something to the affect of "before you eat your sheep, it must be hung upside down and have its throat cut and drained of blood while still alive and kicking" (I'm paraphrasing here). He then storms out of the studio after declaring the whole debate to be an attack on Islam in general

This whole issue of halal/kosher meat slaughter has been discussed before, here:

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5204

I thik the thread petered out due to the fact that we in the west are not exactly innocent in the way we butcher animals.

Interesting. I must admit to not knowing a deal on the subject so I did a bit of googling and I thought that this was an interesting polar view (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9115,974976,00.html) . Racism of course knows no colour or creed, and radicals and reactionaries exist in all spheres. Maybe I bang on a bit about race, but I utterly abhore it and I am certainly under no illusions that ALL peoples practice it. Check out my Rwanda thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&postid=95269#post95269)

I was appauled at what they were allowed to do.

We all have disagreements and have opinions but these people should be taken from this country and sent back from where they came and never be allowed here again.

The is the Queens flag, nothing to so with Tony Blair and you can`t go around burning our flag.

No soldier burned a muslim country`s flag so why do it to ours.

They should not be allowed to live here as obviously they hate the country so why should they be allowed to stay.

In our history that would be treason and we all know what happened to you then.

If you live here have respect for the country and the history and respect of the flag and England

Originally posted by max
This whole issue of halal/kosher meat slaughter has been discussed before, here:

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5204

I thik the thread petered out due to the fact that we in the west are not exactly innocent in the way we butcher animals.

That's true, but I was trying to point out that when abject cruelty in the name of god is questioned, then the immediate response is an accusation of racism.

I ask again, since when has Islam been a race, as opposed to a religion?

Well as they consider themselves a nation, I *think* it comes under race. Anyway, it doesn't matter whether it's race or religion. The bigots don't differentiate.

Originally posted by Tony
Interesting. I must admit to not knowing a deal on the subject so I did a bit of googling and I thought that this was an interesting polar view (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9115,974976,00.html) . Racism of course knows no colour or creed, and radicals and reactionaries exist in all spheres. Maybe I bang on a bit about race, but I utterly abhore it and I am certainly under no illusions that ALL peoples practice it. Check out my Rwanda thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&postid=95269#post95269)

Interesting article. I think what the animal groups really object to is the traumatic 6 week sea journey in terrible conditions, which leads up to the hit and miss ritual killing.

That's like adding insult to injury (or, in fact, to death).

Originally posted by Tony
Well as they consider themselves a nation, I *think* it comes under race. Anyway, it doesn't matter whether it's race or religion. The bigots don't differentiate.


Race and religion are entirely separate altogether. My belief is that all religions are outdated and backwards, Islam being the prime example in the way women are treated. This is NOT a racist comment. There are plenty of white muslims as well as asians who aren't muslims. Race and religion ARE separate, and, infact by assuming they aren't (i.e. assuming muslim = asian) then that in itself is 'racist'.

Race and religion are not seperate things at all.

The Quoran teaches about the promotion, enhancement and enlargement of the "Muslim Nation", and therefore creates its own race.

You're just talking "black man, white man" and I'm afraid that race is a lot more complex than that.

I will bow to greater (actual) knowledge than you have T020. I still stand my essential point though - that the bigots don't differentiate.

Originally posted by Tony
Race and religion are not seperate things at all.

The Quoran teaches about the promotion, enhancement and enlargement of the "Muslim Nation", and therefore creates its own race.

You're just talking "black man, white man" and I'm afraid that race is a lot more complex than that.

I will bow to greater (actual) knowledge than you have T020. I still stand my essential point though - that the bigots don't differentiate.

It's only called the Muslim Nation in order to unite people of the Islamic faith regardless of what country they live in.

The Jews would probably also use the word 'Nation' as a catch-all term for their religion worldwide.

That doesn't make Islam a race. It's still a religion made up of people of all colours and nationalities.

It's a sad day when we can't criticise a religion for fear of being branded racist.

Originally posted by mojoworking
It's only called the Muslim Nation in order to unite people of the Islamic faith regardless of what country they live in.
I think that its a lot more complicated than that.

Originally posted by mojoworking
It's a sad day when we can't criticise a religion for fear of being branded racist.
Who's branding you a racist? Criticise away within the usual boundries of religous tolerance.

Originally posted by Tony
I think that its a lot more complicated than that

It's only more complicated if you want to make a PC issue out of it.

But in reality it's fairly simple. The Muslim religion is not one of the three scientifically-defined races, which are: Caucasian, Mongoloid or Negroid.

Who's branding you a racist? Criticise away within the usual boundries of religous tolerance.

If you really believe that, then you simply haven't been reading many of the postings on this forum recently

Originally posted by mojoworking
It's only more complicated if you want to make a PC issue out of it.
But in reality it's fairly simple. The Muslim religion is not one of the three scientifically-defined races, which are: Caucasian, Mongoloid or Negroid.
I think that you know it's more complicated than that. Simple (and outdated) scientific descriptions just don't suffice any more because of rather complex socio-economic issues that create... by way of simple example... the racist term "Paki".

I would venture to say that there are moves afoot by some people to use the word "Muslim" as a perjorative racist term too, purely for their own racist ends.

Originally posted by Tony
I think that you know it's more complicated than that. Simple (and outdated) scientific descriptions just don't suffice any more because of rather complex socio-economic issues that create... by way of simple example... the racist term "Paki".

True, there may be sub-divisions, off-shoots and variations within races, but that still doesn't turn a religion into a race.

Originally posted by mojoworking
If you really believe that, then you simply haven't been reading many of the postings on this forum recently

No, Tony's right, nobody is accusing anyone of being racist for criticising religion. If they were then they would have jumped on this:

Originally posted by t020
My belief is that all religions are outdated and backwards, Islam being the prime example in the way women are treated.

No-one did as it's not racist or an example of bigotry just an example of someone's view of religion and Islam in particular. I too have a problem with any religion which treats women as possessions.

Originally posted by max
No, Tony's right, nobody is accusing anyone of being racist for criticising religion.

Perhaps I imagined this recent response from Abdul in the "Nationalists" thread then:

"And you accuse me of harbouring extreme views? Do you not think your comments are in anyway racist?"

I could find more examples, but I just don't have the time right now (I'm supposed to be working).

Sorry i haven't had time to read all this thread, but i saw this on the front of the newspaper, and i would say that if he wasn't British then send him back to where he came from because he was obviously happier there. And if he is British then ask him where he would rather live because he obviosly ain't happy living here.
If someone has the gall to insult this country that much then they shouldn't be allowed to live here, whether British or not.

put up with this piece of scum?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004181376,00.html

absoultely unbeliveable


:(

This is another artical on him and some of this jihad loving friends,really does make sad and angry know there are people like this living in this country. :(

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/londonnews/articles/10329634?version=1

Just proves that Blair and chums are a bunch of *******who don't know what they're doing.

Just what, exactly, should the gov't do about it? I'm not defending him and his associates but until they break the law there's not really much anyone can do.

If you look to the US, for instance, there are thousands of armed militia running around which to my mind is a lot worse than a few fanatics preaching hatred.

So the answer to your question is yes, most governments in the world do put up with this. Those that don't are generally totalitarian states. I hope you're not saying we should become totalitarian?

I must be a mind reader.

Originally posted by max
Just what, exactly, should the gov't do about it? I'm not defending him and his associates but until they break the law there's not really much anyone can do.

If you look to the US, for instance, there are thousands of armed militia running around which to my mind is a lot worse than a few fanatics preaching hatred.

So the answer to your question is yes, most governments in the world do put up with this. Those that don't are generally totalitarian states. I hope you're not saying we should become totalitarian?

deporting him would do just fine.......then he could go and earn 2 quid an hour making trainers instead of sponging off us

Originally posted by kirky
deporting him would do just fine.......then he could go and earn 2 quid an hour making trainers instead of sponging off us

How can you deport someone who's British? Where would you send him?

Again, I'm not defending him but please could you give rational answers?

stop nit pickin :(

Originally posted by kirky
stop nit pickin :(

It's his job to nit pick, he's a Mod :D

Originally posted by max
Just what, exactly, should the gov't do about it? I'm not defending him and his associates but until they break the law there's not really much anyone can do.



How about inciting racial and religious hatred and violence.

Originally posted by Mo
How about inciting racial and religious hatred and violence.

Surely the police would have arrested him by now if he had been?

Originally posted by max
Surely the police would have arrested him by now if he had been?

so exactly what was he doing then?

Originally posted by max
Again, I'm not defending him

of course you're not. why on earth would you be?

Originally posted by Killian
so exactly what was he doing then?

I've really no idea. If he had been committing a crime then the police would have arrested him by now.


Originally posted by Killian
of course you're not. why on earth would you be?

'cos whenever I ask the question about how we should treat these acts using our laws I get accused of either defending them, being a wish-washy liberal or a bleeding heart do-gooder. So, whenever I make a comment on this forum I have decided to start by defending myself against attack.

Does that answer your question?

Originally posted by max
I've really no idea. If he had been committing a crime then the police would have arrested him by now.



naturally. don't they always???

Originally posted by max

'cos whenever I ask the question about how we should treat these acts using our laws I get accused of either defending them, being a wish-washy liberal or a bleeding heart do-gooder. So, whenever I make a comment on this forum I have decided to start by defending myself against attack.

Does that answer your question?

yes, somewhere in there is the exact answer to my question.

But deporting him would make him dangerous.

He would be welcomed by the master terrorists abroad and he could give vital information to aid and organise the terror attack on this country that speaks of.

Originally posted by Sam Miguel
But deporting him would make him dangerous.


better keep him here then where he poses absolutely no threat to anyone. article did him no justice whatsoever as he is probably a very nice chap and an absolute pillar of the community. i'm sure many regulars on here would love him as a neighbour.

Well I don't know him personally so wouldn't be able to comment...

Originally posted by Killian
better keep him here then where he poses absolutely no threat to anyone. article did him no justice whatsoever as he is probably a very nice chap and an absolute pillar of the community. i'm sure many regulars on here would love him as a neighbour.

That's it rub me up the wrong way by picking words out and making a quote say something else!

This is in fact a pet hate of mine!

You know very well what I meant.

As for the sarcasm, come on, it is a bit pathetic isn't it. I'm sure you could do better than that.

Sarcasm of this level, for comic effect, has to be in answer to a strong controversial statement to be even mildly funny. My point was weak, and merely an idea.

Christ on a bike!

Originally posted by Sam Miguel
That's it rub me up the wrong way by picking words out and making a quote say something else!

This is in fact a pet hate of mine!

You know very well what I meant.

As for the sarcasm, come on, it is a bit pathetic isn't it. I'm sure you could do better than that.

Sarcasm of this level, for comic effect, has to be in answer to a strong controversial statement to be even mildly funny. My point was weak, and merely an idea.

Christ on a bike!

seems i'm going to spend the whole night saying sorry. wasn't actually having a go at you, just used your quote to make a point to certain other people. backfired on me obviously.

Originally posted by Mo
How about inciting racial and religious hatred and violence.

No chance of that. Under the new EU "let's all get along with each other" laws, only white people can be charged with inciting racial and religious hatred and violence.

Anyone else can say what they like with impunity.

Sounds fair to me.

Seems like the sun sensationalising though. Yeah, he's a bad person by the sounds of it, but i'm sure there's plenty of other evil people in this country to discuss as well. Why is we all seem obsessed with the odd report about some fanatic. There's all sorts of other things going on too. Drive by shootings, paedophiles, generally sick twisted people doing sick twisted things, but they rarely seem to cause a raised eywbrow on this board. It seems a bit unbalanced to me. Just a thought

Originally posted by Killian
better keep him here then where he poses absolutely no threat to anyone. article did him no justice whatsoever as he is probably a very nice chap and an absolute pillar of the community. i'm sure many regulars on here would love him as a neighbour.


I could think of at least one forum person that would love him as a neighbour, and anyone else like him (one gets that impression after reading post after post of apologetic PC nonsense on behalf of people who live off taxpayers whilst preaching hatred towards the country they so happily sponge off). The answer is simple - preaching hatred against Britain whilst being British is being a traitor - deport them or, better still, punish them with the death penalty. Its about time we stopped putting up with this kind of s**t.

t020, who isn't scared of being "un-PC".

dont always agree with your views on certain matters to20 but im with you on this one:thumbsup:

Originally posted by t020
I could think of at least one forum person that would love him as a neighbour, and anyone else like him (one gets that impression after reading post after post of apologetic PC nonsense on behalf of people who live off taxpayers whilst preaching hatred towards the country they so happily sponge off). The answer is simple - preaching hatred against Britain whilst being British is being a traitor - deport them or, better still, punish them with the death penalty. Its about time we stopped putting up with this kind of s**t.

t020, who isn't scared of being "un-PC".
I can think of many reasons why people would like to hate Britain, and most of those reasons are the same as why many British people hate America.

How can you deport someone who was born in Britain? How would the government decide which country in the world to deport him to?

Originally posted by Sidla
I can think of many reasons why people would like to hate Britain, and most of those reasons are the same as why many British people hate America.
carry on then i wanna no more:confused:

Originally posted by Patchy
How can you deport someone who was born in Britain? How would the government decide which country in the world to deport him to?
just send them back to the country there parents are from.they shouldnt mind going im sure theres a nice dss wherever they go:loopy:

If he was born in Britain, then he is probably a British citizen and therefore un-deportable. He should be charged with treason.

Originally posted by panda79
carry on then i wanna no more:confused:
1. Many people think being British carries some sort of honors badge.
2. Many people are proud of British history and are proud of conquering so many countries in their past.
3. Many people believe that it is a privilege to be British.
4. Many people take Britain for granted.
5. Many people believe we can go to war with whoever we want because we're 'civilised'.
6. Many people believe that they should be the only people allowed to recieve benefits from our country just because they were born here.

I could go on...

Originally posted by Sidla
1. Many people think being British carries some sort of honors badge.
2. Many people are proud of British history and are proud of conquering so many countries in their past.
3. Many people believe that it is a privilege to be British.
4. Many people take Britain for granted.
5. Many people believe we can go to war with whoever we want because we're 'civilised'.
6. Many people believe that they should be the only people allowed to recieve benefits from our country just because they were born here.

I could go on...

7. Many people talk sh*te

Originally posted by Sidla
I can think of many reasons why people would like to hate Britain, and most of those reasons are the same as why many British people hate America.

if i hated America or any other country, I would most certainly not live there. sheer hypocrisy apart from anything else. why live in a country you hate? makes no sense to me.

Originally posted by kirky
put up with this piece of scum?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004181376,00.html

absoultely unbeliveable


:(


Disgusting, these evil scum should be thrown out on their ear immediately, they are preaching hatred and cutting off the hand that feeds them.

One can not reason with these animals ( appologies to the animals ) just the same as Hitler and his mob all we can do is destroy them!!!

Originally posted by mojoworking
No chance of that. Under the new EU "let's all get along with each other" laws, only white people can be charged with inciting racial and religious hatred and violence.

Anyone else can say what they like with impunity.
How about backing up that ridiculous statement with some supporting facts?

Originally posted by Tony
How about backing up that ridiculous statement with some supporting facts?

What do you want, names and addresses?

Originally posted by mojoworking
What do you want, names and addresses?

Just cite the particular EU laws to which you referred. If it's not too much bother.

Originally posted by max
Just cite the particular EU laws to which you referred. If it's not too much bother.

Sigh... That part was obviously an attempt at humour Max.

Not a very successful one, perhaps, but an attempt nevertheless.

Originally posted by mojoworking
Sigh... That part was obviously an attempt at humour Max.

Not a very successful one, perhaps, but an attempt nevertheless.

Sorry, I missed the joke.:blush:

You can understand why when you look at the history of posts on the forum where all sorts of wrongs are attributed to supposed EU rules and regulations. e.g. straight bananas, ffs.

Mojo, stop shilly shallying about and just tell us which specific law you are referring to where...
Originally posted by mojoworking
only white people can be charged with inciting racial and religious hatred and violence. Anyone else can say what they like with impunity. Come on man... the FACTS! You're going to find it difficult though, because you're statement is untrue.

Originally posted by Tony
Mojo, stop shilly shallying about and just tell us which specific law you are referring to where...
Come on man... the FACTS!

You know very well that no such law exists Tony. I was making an ironic joke based on the PERCEPTION that people can come to Britain and burn our flag and generally stir up racial hatred with impunity.

The PERCEPTION is also that if a white person made similar remarks towards non-white groups, he would be severely dealt with by the legal system.

You can call this a racist view if you want, but even you can't deny that the PERCEPTION is widespread

Originally posted by mojoworking
You know very well that no such law exists Tony. I was making an ironic joke based on the PERCEPTION that people can come to Britain and burn our flag and generally stir up racial hatred with impunity.

The PERCEPTION is also that if a white person made similar remarks towards non-white groups, he would be severely dealt with by the legal system.

You can call this a racist view if you want, but even you can't deny that the PERCEPTION is widespread

Do you agree then that we need to educate people in the truth and alter their perception? Do you also agree the media is largely responsible for this perception?

I agree that such a perception is widespread. Have you stopped for a moment to think why that may be? Could it be because people continue to perpetuate mistruths such as the one you called an "ironic joke". You just make the problem worse.

However... I rarely find such perceptions to have any basis in any real truth. - like the mysteriously absent EU Banana Directive.

(Hey! Wonders never cease... this thread is coming full circle back on topic!)

Originally posted by max
Do you agree then that we need to educate people in the truth and alter their perception? Do you also agree the media is largely responsible for this perception?

In an ideal world: yes and yes.

But this is not an ideal world and you know as well as I do that people will always feel hostility toward others, especially when they feel threatened.

You can be as PC as you like, but you'll never change human nature

Originally posted by Tony
I agree that such a perception is widespread. Have you stopped for a moment to think why that may be? Could it be because people continue to perpetuate mistruths such as the one you called an "ironic joke". You just make the problem worse.

However... I rarely find such perceptions to have any basis in any real truth. - like the mysteriously absent EU Banana Directive.

(Hey! Wonders never cease... this thread is coming full circle back on topic!)

Well, at least we agree on something

Originally posted by halevan
Disgusting, these evil scum should be thrown out on their ear immediately, they are preaching hatred and cutting off the hand that feeds them.


The problem, as mentioned before, is where do we throw them? We can hardly use Aus for deporting convicts to anymore.

Originally posted by Andy78
The problem, as mentioned before, is where do we throw them? We can hardly use Aus for deporting convicts to anymore.

I'll go with France. that'll teach them to bombard us with those bloody tasteless 'Golden Delcicious' and that 'orrible cheese with the skin on it!

Yeah france is always an option. They smell funny anyway.

The French would not have him.
They do seem to be a lot stricter on many things, seem to be trying to stop there country going down the pan.

the point is that the option sending someone to a different country is moot. if a british citizen does something wrong, it's britain that should deal with it.

Originally posted by fuzzy
The French would not have him.
They do seem to be a lot stricter on many things, seem to be trying to stop there country going down the pan.

whereas ours has already gone down and been flushed several times?

Originally posted by Andy78
the point is that the option sending someone to a different country is moot. if a british citizen does something wrong, it's britain that should deal with it.

Britain does deal with it. it does absolutely nothing.

What exactly are we argueing about here anyway? That people should be locked up for burning the union jack? Why should it be a crime, are we not allowed to protest against our country? Would this law apply to everyone or just people who have immigrated into this country?

I'm willing to bet that if I set fire to a Pakistani flag in Regents Park, I would be locked up. And quite rightly so.

how about a French flag? only right and proper that it should be allowed if only to support cruelty against snails.

Well, it looks as though David Blunkett is doing his best to deport Abu Hamza, it's our justice system which is preventing it:

Courts give Hamza another 9 months to prepare his defence (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_934526.html?menu=)

Edit Link gorn. Seems Ananova's policy is to not keep news stories after a certain time. Anyway, the gist was that DB wants to deport AH to the Yemen, from whence he came, but our judges have given him (AH) 9 months to prepare his defence.:loopy:

I'm guessing that now some contributors will be pressing for a change in the law.:D

Originally posted by max

I'm guessing that now some contributors will be pressing for a change in the law.:D

And why not? If we can't deport someone who has called on people to carry out acts of terrorism "on their own door" then clearly the law is an ass, especially when the British taxpayer is paying this evil monster £300 a week for the privilege.

Originally posted by t020
And why not? If we can't deport someone who has called on people to carry out acts of terrorism "on their own door" then clearly the law is an ass, especially when the British taxpayer is paying this evil monster £300 a week for the privilege.

he also advised muslims in their own countries to kill anyone who 'shouldn't be there'. nice man. can't understand what all the fuss is about. incidentally, i don't earn anywhere near £300 a week. what am i doing wrong?