http://www.bbc.co.uk/southyorkshire/have_your_say/hotel.shtml

The feedback area now closed so drop line to:-

Firstpoint@sheffield.gov.uk

(If theres a more appropriate contact please let me know thnx.)

If we *have* to have that stupid office block, the angled corner one is better because you'll still be able to see some of the winter gardens

The angled building will complete the ruination of the Peace gardens.
A curved front and side to this building would look more stylish as visits to Bath, Whitby etc. would demonstrate.

It's about money though isn't it?
The cheapest way of building office blocks and hotels is by adopting modular/cellular constuction methods which at best are boring.
Architectural moulding? craftsmanship? forget it! The Greeks, Romans and our own Victorian ancestors realised that buildings should have style.
They also realised that civic (public) space was what made cities and civilisations. Look at all great cities built over the past 2000years and they are dominated by public buildings and public spaces at their hearts.

The clowns that run this city can't see that simple lesson and will ruin what has been so far been a fine development of public space benefiting all of Sheffield's citizens.

And if a Hotel was so necessary, why not build it behind The Winter Gardens? A child of 4, a moron, a man from Mars could tell at a glance that this would be the only logical way to do it.
Logic? It's not about logic, it's about money. The majority view of Sheffielders has been ignored, so exerscise your democratic right and vote them out (Yes, I know the others are as bad) but let the council see that we won't meekly accept all the crap that they dump on us.

Hotel guests looking out will have a fine view of the Peace Garden but it's a pity Sheffielders aren't entitled to the same or better view
And to all those in my neighbourhood who like to set their fireworks off all year round and in the early hours, go and do it in the Peace Gardens once the hotel is built.
Reclaim it as public space. Do not allow it to become the front garden to a privately owned building, to which the public are only admitted if they have deep pockets.

I appreciate your objection to the hotel, but if a major developer offered you a huge sum of money to build a prime development on a high value piece of land, you'd maybe think twice.

If the council hadn't accepted the hotel proposal, it'd lose the money from the sale of the site and have to pay to re-grass it etc, which they can ill-afford and it would come from the public purse. In other words, their finances would be screwed and basic services would suffer.

Sheffield needs high-quality developments like this so the council can get money from them and spend it on improving other things.

The Winter Garden gets off lightly - its redeeming feature(s) being safely inside.

This development will surely shatter the timeless charm of the setting belonging to the ornate Victorian Town Hall. Devastating the enchantment of its Secret (Peace) Garden.

...and I agree with everything you say Ned Ludd.

Originally posted by fez.
The Winter Garden gets off lightly - its redeeming feature(s) being safely inside.

This development will surely shatter the timeless charm of the setting belonging to the ornate Victorian Town Hall. Devastating the enchantment of its Secret (Peace) Garden.

...and I agree with everything you say Ned Ludd.

They did reduce the size of the original design to give the town hall more prominance and they are apparantly making it out of the same stone so as not to look out of character.

Money does indeed talk, but its not money alone - the implications for the council, the city's economy and the public purse meant that the land had to be used for something, and if it attracts tourism to the centre of Sheffield, that can only be good for the place.

People have VERY short memories.

When the Peace Gardens / Heart of the City project went through the Council the word was "don't let it cost the people of Sheffield - the ratepayers - a penny".

The whole project was nearly scuppered totally (By the Lib Dems, if I remember rightly) who insisted that the finances were re-visited before they would vote for it. They wanted to make sure that the ratepayers paid nothing.

The result was a complicated package involving Lottery money and European money which had to be matched by other money. This money involved demolishing the Egg Box and leasing the new building off whoever owns it. It also involved building a hotel next to the Peace Gardens / Winter Gardens.

How ironic it is that the Lib Dems, who insisted that the finance package should not cost us anything then led the revolt against the Hotel.

Can you have your cake and eat it? Either it costs the ratepayers nothing, or we get a hotel. You can't have both.

Anyway, the hotel might be quite nice when it is finished!

Well the whole regeneration of Sheffield City Centre shouldn't cost the taxpayer a penny, to date, every £1 of public funding that's went into this project has yielded a £20 return in private investment.

everyone is moaning that this hotel will block the view of the winter gardens, but did anyone notice that the said gardens blocked our view of a grand old library? i know it's only an interwar builidng, but it's a good one, and was visible for the first time in my lifetime when the egg box went down.
not for long though - we now have fake wooden girders and a bit of glass in the way...
the hotel is doing what the winter garden did, and also creating far more jobs and decent accommodation. imagine what visitors' ideas of sheffield will be after staying down the hilton? at least this one is in much nicer a setting..

What a mess!! The council's just got rid of one ugly looking building in that area so why build another?

I could be wrong but I'm sure that I read somewhere that the ratepayers of Sheffield are still paying debt charges on the now demolished town hall extension. :loopy:

I notice that none of the advocates of the hotel have answered my point asking why the smaller (and transparent!)
Winter Gardens wasn't built in front of the hotel....it's a matter of the most basic sense of perspective! OK, private developers have to have a hotel...put this taller building BEHIND the Winter Gardens.
But why not build the hotel in an another area which requires improvement like the NUM site in Barkers Pool? or the Markets site...that does need improvement.
The council has flogged publicly owned land...it's gone forever.

Has the private sector really put in £19 out of every £20? With all the money from the lottery, EU and tax-funded development agencies? I'm not sure that Sheffield citizens haven't already contributed a lot of money indirectly and shave still seen the council flog their property.

Yes, the Lib Dems are just as bad but the Blairite "public consultation" exercise was a complete farce, sham and waste of public money.

With this precedent, what would happen if the other MacDonalds offered to pay the wages for two park keepers if they could open an outlet in the Botanical Gardens, blocking the central view of the newly restored glasshouses? Don't say it couldn't happen!

It seems to me that both on a local and national scale the elected representatives of the masses are always keen to take land and funds that were once the property of the public sector and hand it over to the private without a moment of thought or hesitation.

All over the country the urge for public institutions to get into bed with private contractors has been forced through, usually to the detriment of the projects on which both have cooperated.

The Private Finance Initiative (PFI) has seen pubilc assets gleefully handed over to the private sector time and again.

And now in the very heart of the city centre we have the land that was once the sight of the administrative centre of Sheffield being used to build a hotel. No doubt the hotel will employ a few people in well paid jobs and far more in poorly paid ones, but I can't help but feel that there might have been a better way to use that prime piece of land.

I don't doubt that there are economic arguments that could be put forward in favor of the hotel, the tourism it will bring and how nice it will look...and I say this as my own opinion, without regard for the economists and the bureaucrats...but I still think the city would be better served in the long run by using the land to build something of beauty, in fitting with the city's heart that will last for a good number of years and say a loud: "**** you" to the developers rubbing their hands together in the wings.

Originally posted by foxy27
What a mess!! The council's just got rid of one ugly looking building in that area so why build another?

Why are people so quick to assume this building will be ugly? Todays standards, even for a mainly money making project, of design an darchiteture are high, and we should see a top quality building on the site.
As for public space, sheffield city centre can't be one big park. Density in buildings (and therefore people) is just as important as the parks and open spaces. Though a slightly curved corner would be more pleasing to the eye, and relatively square office block will define the norfolk street edge.
And another thing! I find it hard to belive that many people honestly take the time and effort to look at the winter gardens from the top of the peace gardens/pinstone street. I often eat my lunch in the winter gardens, i walk past the surrey street end too, and when the other end is developed there will be fine views through a new square, through the gardens out onto tudor square. If more people used it as it should be, a apublice space, then i think you'd be a lot less worried about what nice views you have of from round the corner while you're doing your shopping.

Originally posted by Ned Ludd
I notice that none of the advocates of the hotel have answered my point asking why the smaller (and transparent!)
Winter Gardens wasn't built in front of the hotel....it's a matter of the most basic sense of perspective!

The winter gardens in place of the hotel would block the view of the hotel to an extent as it is longer I believe, and would therefore intrude more on the Peace Gardens, which isn't what many people want.

Originally posted by Ned Ludd ]
Has the private sector really put in £19 out of every £20? With all the money from the lottery, EU and tax-funded development agencies? I'm not sure that Sheffield citizens haven't already contributed a lot of money indirectly and shave still seen the council flog their property.


Yes it has, check out www.sheffield1.com on there it says the new developments will be done at no cost to the taxpayer.

Not exactly crystal clear is it?
Objective 1 funding has put in £35M. As I understand it, this is from the EU Social Fund and is therefore taxpayers money (or isn't it?)
I'd like to see a list which breaks down ever £1M put into it and in a way that the man in the street can follow.

SRB 6 has put in £14M
That'll be the UK Government's Single Regeneration Budget which presumably donates more tax payers money?
I'd still like to know where the rest comes from.

Strange scheme if it hasn't cost the taxpayers a penny but of course what is meant is, that it's not come out of Council Tax.
Sheffielders are paying indirectly but are not being allowed to infuence the major decisions.

Originally posted by Ned Ludd
I'd like to see a list which breaks down ever £1M put into it and in a way that the man in the street can follow.

Some things, the man in the street wouldn't understand, or care about. The best way of breaking it down is to look at the council's spending plans for the forthcoming year and enquire if you have any queries about the finances.

It'd cost yet more money to break this down into lehman's terms and inform everyone - If you want to find out, you can, but most people won't.

What I'm saying, is that it looks as if the taxpayer is putting in a lot more than £1 in £20 even under the briefest scrutiny.

I'd query it then if I were you.