I ask all of you, regardless of age or background to read the article published today in The Times newspaper. A link is given below.

I think we are potentially seeing the start of the destruction of our democracy.....big time, by this Government.

I hope I am wrong, but .....................



Times Article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2049791,00.html)

I ask all of you, regardless of age or background to read the article published today in The Times newspaper. A link is given below.

I think we are potentially seeing the start of the destruction of our democracy.....big time, by this Government.

I hope I am wrong, but .....................
Times Article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2049791,00.html)

Oh don't over react!!!

Just repeat after me...

"Blair is good, Blair is good, he only wants whats best, Blair is God, Blair is God, I am not worthy, I am not worthy" ;)

We already have it.

I believe that it's possible with the Defense of the realm Act to suspend Parliament, Haebius Corpus, etc.

Also, there's a catch all called 'Queen's Order 2' which when enacted effectively brings the country to nuclear war readiness.

In other words, they can already do it.
Joe

What is 'Haebius Corpus'. I have heard the term many time in relation to criminal law but have never known what it means.

It's a means of safegurading the individual against arbitrary imprisonment.

It literally means something like 'bring forth the body' - i.e. bring the accused in to a court for a hearing.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/h001.htm (US definition, but still correct)

Joe

Bit scary that article. I just hope it's scare mongering (remember the Millenium Bug?). If not we're DOOOOOoooooooommmmmmmmmmed!

CM x

Oh don't over react!!!

Just repeat after me...

"Blair is good, Blair is good, he only wants whats best, Blair is God, Blair is God, I am not worthy, I am not worthy" ;)

Tried that taxman......the message still won't penetrate my skull :)

I know Political Threads are not exactly popular subjects on SF, other than mostly Religion/!mmigration combinations.

In this case, having read the article this morning, I believe this information is the most gravely unsettling news coming out of Parliament.

Iraq, Smoking Bans, Identity Cards..pale into insignificance compared to this one.

We already have it.

I believe that it's possible with the Defense of the realm Act to suspend Parliament, Haebius Corpus, etc.

Also, there's a catch all called 'Queen's Order 2' which when enacted effectively brings the country to nuclear war readiness.

In other words, they can already do it.
Joe

If they can already do it Joe, why the new legislation?

Didnt understand a word of that article.... Can you tell im a daily sport reader??

If they can already do it Joe, why the new legislation?

Good question.

The only think I can imagine is to make it easier.

But the legislation has been in place since the 1950s. Remember the 1960s film 'The War Game' - firing squads of policemen and such? Banning non-essential traffic from major roads? Clearing hospitals for war casualties? Arrest and detention of political extremists, some trades unionists, Communists, etc.?

It's all been sitting there waiting for us to have a nuclear war for 50 years.

The difference is probably to widen the circumstances in which it can be done. There was talk some time ago about making it easier to activate local seats of national government for major terrorist attacks - like a dirty bomb or a biological weapon attack.

The changes here though look more administrative - softly softly dictatorship.


Joe

Didnt understand a word of that article.... Can you tell im a daily sport reader??

It basically gives Government Ministers the right to change the laws of the land, modify any Law approved by Parliament without the approval of MP's. and with no need to answer questions about about why the decision was made.

It potentially makes the input of MPs irrelevent.

If used to its fullest extent, it means "Government by Ministers" without the checks and balances of our elected Representatives in Parliament.

We would become ruled by a selected few, who could make/change the law as they wish, at their convenience.

Once this happens, living in a corrupt South American Republic would appear to us as Shangri-Lah.

And.....

There is also something else called the Parliament Act with allows the House of Commons to drive a Bill through the Lords, irrespective of what the 'Second House' think of it, and that has been used frequently by this bunch.

Joe

We already have it.

I believe that it's possible with the Defense of the realm Act to suspend Parliament, Haebius Corpus, etc.

Also, there's a catch all called 'Queen's Order 2' which when enacted effectively brings the country to nuclear war readiness.

In other words, they can already do it.
Joe

That's a suspension. not a change.

This bill allows for ministers to permanently change the law with no oversight or debate.

I fail to see how this can be anything but a negative development for democracy in the UK.

New Labour are know control freaks so you ought not be too suprised at what they do.
Whilever people continue to vote for them they will simply continue with their plans.
But like Joe P has said,they have used the parliment act before when they cant get their own way and im sure it wont be the last.

New Labour are know control freaks so you ought not be too suprised at what they do.
Whilever people continue to vote for them they will simply continue with their plans.
But like Joe P has said,they have used the parliment act before when they cant get their own way and im sure it wont be the last.

Our MPs vote on a Bill (Law) in the House of Commons. Following that successful vote, the Bill is placed before the House of Lords.

The House of Lords can obstruct the will of our MPs in the House of Commons, by delaying its implementation for a period of time.

The Bill can be fast-tracked through into Law, by using the Parliament Act.
The House of Lords........generally a non-elected group of people... are thus prevented from delaying the will of our elected MPs.

That is a fundamental safeguard for us, the people.

The change underway now, and the subject of this Thread, is a far more serious problem for British Parliamentary Democracy as we know it.

Our MPs vote on a Bill (Law) in the House of Commons. Following that successful vote, the Bill is placed before the House of Lords.

The House of Lords can obstruct the will of our MPs in the House of Commons, by delaying its implementation for a period of time.

The Bill can be fast-tracked through into Law, by using the Parliament Act.
The House of Lords........generally a non-elected group of people... are thus prevented from delaying the will of our elected MPs.

That is a fundamental safeguard for us, the people.

The change underway now, and the subject of this Thread, is a far more serious problem for British Parliamentary Democracy as we know it.

I totaly agree.... and guess who doesn't get to vote on it.

The Government claims that there is nothing to worry about.

Well they would say that wouldn't they?! :suspect:

From (lip service) democracy to Totalitarianism in one easy step. Time for the peasants to start revolting...

Well they would say that wouldn't they?! :suspect:

From (lip service) democracy to Totalitarianism in one easy step. Time for the peasants to start revolting...

I am a peasant, I am not revolting......I am an adonis.....I don't think!:thumbsup:

That is a fundamental safeguard for us, the people.

The change underway now, and the subject of this Thread, is a far more serious problem for British Parliamentary Democracy as we know it.

I would agree to some degree but the Lords has often been conservative (small 'c') and can act as inertia for radical reform. This can be good or bad.

If a Bill is put through the Commons on a whipped vote - i.e. the MPs are told how to vote by their party leaders, then democracy is stripped away and replaced with the will of the Cabinet and the Shadow Cabinet, anyway.

Phan - quite right. Although suspension and removal in politics is just a matter of how long it goes on for. :)

Joe

I would agree to some degree but the Lords has often been conservative (small 'c') and can act as inertia for radical reform. This can be good or bad.

If a Bill is put through the Commons on a whipped vote - i.e. the MPs are told how to vote by their party leaders, then democracy is stripped away and replaced with the will of the Cabinet and the Shadow Cabinet, anyway.


Joe

In an ideal democracy, of course, MP's would be selected by a true form of Proportional Representation, and Political "Parties" banished from the democratic system.

All votes should be on the basis of a free vote in the House of Commons.

The Second Chamber (presently the House of Lords) should be abolished and replaced with a truly elected Senate, dedicated to overseeing the wisdom and veracity of Bills passed by the Commons.

We have the worst of all worlds, with political "placemen/women" granted positions in the Second House and a hotch potch of aristocrats, bishops and so on making up the numbers.

In my view, all the people in our Parliament should be subjected to a regular electoral process, by the people and for the people.

The last thing we need is for the changes to democracy which prompted me to start this thread.

ps I remain in a good mood :)

This shouldn't come as a surprise . For years now , millions of British people have behaved like sheep .
Every new law and regulation has been greeted by a lot of people enthusiastically and every new ban has been supported by millions of kill-joys and control freaks who hate other people to have freedom of something they disapprove of .
This has led our presnt government [ who have social control in their very life blood] to believe they can get away with anything and the sheep will fall for it . They probably will get away with it . The Banners are reaping their " rewards ".