Right I've gotten myself into quite a situation. Basically I'm a computer science student at Sheffield uni. First year I really struggled to adapt and as a consequence failed the year. Second time round I passed albeit with a few retakes, but struggled to find the motivation to put in the effort required to do well.

So last September I started the second year and really had bad motivational issues, getting to the point where I was missing lecture after lecture and wanting to quit the course after convincing myself I didn't find any of it interesting. This caused me to have an emergency meeting with my tutor who said I should either quit or "forget I didn't find it interesting and carry on" with him setting me some short term goals.

I decided to carry on and it only took a few days after the meeting where I lost motivation again and this carried until Christmas, which was the first time I was able to stop and think about it properly. Consequently my exams after Christmas were a complete disaster, with me only passing one out of the five. This meant that five out of the six modules in the first semester were fails, including two primarily coursework modules where it is difficult to retake.

Now this semester, from somewhere I have regained motivation and am feeling more willing to put in 100% than at any point throughout the course. So as a result I am really enjoying the work so far this term, and I e-mailed my tutor to ask about the possibility of retaking the coursework as soon as possible as I already knew I had failed it. He returned an e-mail to me where the tone of it worried me. He basically had a go at me for not e-mailing him back an assignment a week after our last meeting towards the end of last semester (one of the short term goals) and said that he does not think i deserve extraordinary circumstances in redoing the coursework now and that he wants to meet with me this week to discuss the current state of affairs.

What is worrying the hell out of me is that he could recommend that I quit the course which I desperately don't want to do as I know I could turn it around the way I'm feeling about the course now. I have even started revising already for the exams that I know I failed ready for the retakes in the summer. So what can I say during the meeting or do (I know they say actions speak louder than words) to convince him that I am worth keeping on? Any other advice about this would be gratefully received.

P.S. Please no snide comments about lazy students etc, only looking for helpful advice

If you are feeling motivated then keep at it. I'm sure quitting the course is probably not what they want. But in the worst case scenario I imagine they'd ask you to re-do the year, but if you were motivated then it'd be ok.

Just keep at it, and it'll be worth it, trust me.

Tough situation, at the end of the day you're paying for this education and tutoring and if you want to keep at it and get your head down this semester your tutors should be supportive of this in my opinion. I don't know in practice if it works like this (maybe not) I've never really looked into this kinda thing but can you not get some advice from the students union or student support services? Good luck anyways! Generally im on your side but as a student aswell if i got what u were saying right (you've handed in coursework and before you've got the mark back you know you've failed so u want to re-do it?) i don't really think this is fair, for whatever reasons u didn't put the effort in...but other people did and they didn't get an extension/extra time to plan and think about it etc. - Just my opinion!

You are going to have to work really extremely hard to convince him that you are now committed to keeping your agreements with him. It will take a while for him to see that you mean business and the ONLY way that will happen is by your delivering agreed tasks in advance of the agreed schedule. I wouldnt suggest that you say this to him but just do it and he will then begin to take you seriously again. You will know when you have achieved your desired result because at that stage he will see that you are worth his time and want to invest the time in you.

Keep at it and do everything humanly possible to stick to your guns. You've got some very hard days and work ahead of you.

Let's face it, your track record isn't great so he's going to take some convincing. If you look at from his point of view, the most likely outcome is that you'll lose motivation again in a week or two's time and he may well be right - for this to go on for two and a half years already indicates that you don't have much willpower and motivation, so by now he may think you're a bit of a lost cause. The only way you're going to convince him otherwise is start turning up for every lecture, tutorial, whatever, and handing in every bit of work on time (and making it good). Then he might get the idea you've really turned over a new leaf.

Tough situation, at the end of the day you're paying for this education and tutoring and if you want to keep at it and get your head down this semester your tutors should be supportive of this in my opinion. I don't know in practice if it works like this (maybe not) I've never really looked into this kinda thing but can you not get some advice from the students union or student support services? Good luck anyways! Generally im on your side but as a student aswell if i got what u were saying right (you've handed in coursework and before you've got the mark back you know you've failed so u want to re-do it?) i don't really think this is fair, for whatever reasons u didn't put the effort in...but other people did and they didn't get an extension/extra time to plan and think about it etc. - Just my opinion!

Yes to be fair there I agree with you, but this is why the uni has a policy that if you fail a module whether it be by coursework or exam that when you retake the maximum mark you can get for that module is 40% which is the minimum pass mark. This is why I felt it wouldn't be being disrespectful to the people who have worked harder than me because it's not as if I can gain advantage over them from it.

Maybe when you do have this forthcoming meeting with him you could bring an outline plan of how you would re-do the coursework. You could perhaps discuss what you believed to be the weaker points in the coursework modules (as long as you haven't had extensive feedback youself), as this will help to convince your tutor that you can be self-critical (and therefore, with your new motivation, self-disciplined), and you could suggest how you could improve them next time. As you say, the coursework modules are harder to rearrange re-takes for, but a carefully thought-out plan of action will show your tutor that your prepared to work at it this time round.
I'm sure there must be other people on your course who feel the same - there are always boring topics in any degree subject. Maybe arranging a sort of group of informal study partners could alleviate tthe boredom. At least you could motivate and keep an eye out for each other, discuss workshops, revision etc.
Sure you can do it sheffieldfox - good luck! :)

There is nothing more annoying and frustrating for a tutor than giving up your time and going out of your way to help a student, and then for the student to not follow through with the advice and help given. That is the angle your tutor is probably coming from. As others have said you really need to pull yourself together and prove that you still want to be there. From your track record your tutor probably believes that even if you feel motivated now it's all going to go wrong a couple of weeks down the line again.

Another thing to consider is that realistically, if your final degree class is calculated using your 2nd year you probably now cannot achieve more than a 3rd unless you score very highly in all future units. Is the stress and money of another year worth it for this? I have to admit if I had a student who had failed all units but one in their second year I would probably advise them to at least drop out, sort their head out and come back again in September, if at all. At the end of the day, they can't force you to drop out if you pass your retakes and if you're convinced that you can do it, that's all that matters.

Another thing to consider is that realistically, if your final degree class is calculated using your 2nd year you probably now cannot achieve more than a 3rd unless you score very highly in all future units. Is the stress and money of another year worth it for this? I have to admit if I had a student who had failed all units but one in their second year I would probably advise them to at least drop out, sort their head out and come back again in September, if at all. At the end of the day, they can't force you to drop out if you pass your retakes and if you're convinced that you can do it, that's all that matters.
I'd very much doubt that your final degree class would be massively biased towards your average in the second year. If anything, the third year will be worth at least as much, if not more. When discussing candidates' averages, the course directors and lecturers will consider your strengths, not to negate the hard numbers of your exam marks, but to give a more realistic indication of what quality of student you are. For instance, I know that on some courses at least, 'escape velocity' (a mark of how much the student has improved) is considered a factor in deciding the final degree class. I wouldn't give up hope yet.

I'd very much doubt that your final degree class would be massively biased towards your average in the second year. If anything, the third year will be worth at least as much, if not more. When discussing candidates' averages, the course directors and lecturers will consider your strengths, not to negate the hard numbers of your exam marks, but to give a more realistic indication of what quality of student you are. For instance, I know that on some courses at least, 'escape velocity' (a mark of how much the student has improved) is considered a factor in deciding the final degree class. I wouldn't give up hope yet.

It depends. Where I work the degree class is calculated one of three ways, one using an average of second and 3rd year marks, and two different averages of third year marks. Whichever is the highest is the mark you are awarded. Consideration of the type of student is only brought in on absolute borderline cases (i.e. 0.5 or 1% away from a class). I know that we are unusual, and that most universities do include 2nd year marks in the final year classification. If this is the case and they do include 2nd year 50/50, if sheffield fox scored 50 in the rest of his units this year, and passed all the retakes, assuming he also got 50 in the unit he didn't fail, overall for this year would be 42.5%, which would dramatically affect final classification.

It depends. Where I work the degree class is calculated one of three ways, one using an average of second and 3rd year marks, and two different averages of third year marks. Whichever is the highest is the mark you are awarded. Consideration of the type of student is only brought in on absolute borderline cases (i.e. 0.5 or 1% away from a class). I know that we are unusual, and that most universities do include 2nd year marks in the final year classification. If this is the case and they do include 2nd year 50/50, if sheffield fox scored 50 in the rest of his units this year, and passed all the retakes, assuming he also got 50 in the unit he didn't fail, overall for this year would be 42.5%, which would dramatically affect final classification.

Again this does depend on the department and degree being awarded. I know of someone who was 3% away from a 1st who was awarded it without even having a viva - this was a 4 year undergraduate masters at Sheffield University. Some low, anomalous marks were actually discounted in this case.

Why did you lose motivation in the first place? Was it just poor first year performance or other issues?What do you mean by in the first year "struggle to adapt"? Be interesting to know specifically what caused this motivational issue as unless you can identify what they actually are and where they come from within you, this lack of motivation could well come back in the near future.

I would recommend that you go and visit the counselling service to resolve your motivational issues.
Depression and stress can happen to alot of students and manifest themselves in a number of different ways. If you keep falling back into this state of non-motivation and can't explain the cause, then i really think it would be worth you going to speak to someone about the it because you may have some unresolved issues that are holding you back.

Now this semester, from somewhere I have regained motivation and am feeling more willing to put in 100% than at any point throughout the course. So as a result I am really enjoying the work so far this term, and I e-mailed my tutor to ask about the possibility of retaking the coursework as soon as possible as I already knew I had failed it. He returned an e-mail to me where the tone of it worried me. He basically had a go at me for not e-mailing him back an assignment a week after our last meeting towards the end of last semester (one of the short term goals) and said that he does not think i deserve extraordinary circumstances in redoing the coursework now and that he wants to meet with me this week to discuss the current state of affairs.

Well, this is how I see it. Do you realise how much pressure you are putting on him as a course tutor ? Why should he put himself on the line for you ? Have you thought about that ? The thing is that, even though tutors and lecturers like to see students pass their exams, at the same time, they have to abide by the rules and regulations to do their job fairly. No favouritism on individual students. The rules are there for everyone to abide by really. I mean, every university have a reputation to uphold.

All I can say is that, whether you are motivated or not. This is a personal issue you got to deal with here. My own opinion is that, I don't want to tell you what to say to your tutor, cos that is a personal thing. I think if I was your tutor, I would want you to be honest with me. The final decision would be down to me to decide. i.e. whether I want to take a risk on you OR not. At the end of the day, it'll be my responsibility and my own action really that is on the line here. Using 'extraordinary circumstances' as a reason (to the board of exam moderators) implies that it must indeed an extreme case. I would just be honest and tell him exactly what you think of it all. Then let him decide, cos at the end of the day, he would be covering for you and justifying for you and your exam scores when it comes to judging marks at the end of the year.

At the end of every academic year, all exams and scores from regional universities would be judged and compared to even out the standards of that particular year. I still recall that in my particular degree course in my final year, there were only less than 5 people who got 1st. The standard deviation is somewhat skewered for our particular university. There is only so much you can do, the rest you gotta leave it down to luck/fate, whatever... As long as you did what you feel is right, then there is nothing for you to put yourself down over. Cos what is done, is done. You just gotta accept it, and move on.

QUITTER


Thats what people will be calling you. So prove everyone wrong and do yourself proud :thumbsup:

lol interesting approach.

on the other hand, why subject yourself to several years of doom and gloom when it clearly isn't for you and you aint exactly gonna devote your career to summat you find so depressing!!! you should maybe think about transferring, i know several people who've changed course having failed their first year 3 times in a row!!!

out of interest, i do a few COM modules, who is your tutor?

Correct me if i'm wrong; you did one year at uni and failed, spent a second year at uni to pass the first and now in your second year, which is really the 3rd uni year of your life?

How have you managed to last so long?:confused: I'm surprised your tutor didn't say after a struggling through a few modules of your re-take this is not for you. Let alone let you start a "2nd" year! Crazy how not just students, but most people with "problems" which go on and on are given countless chances. Dont get me wrong i'm sympethetic to people with genuine problems but it amazes me how many people take countless days/weeks/months off work or study with, what seems to me, small problems! How can you not be motivated?:confused: If you dont like the course then surely you knew that and should of transferred all that time ago?

Maybe i'm wrong and harsh at only being 30 and left school only 14 years ago it seems back them if you weren't brilliant at something you were ashamed which i guess is why there are so many people doing degrees that are not up to it but manage to scrape through because of tutors who give chance after chance.

I hope at some point you really discover yourself and find out what you really want in your life, even if it is this computer course. I just feel your taking the mick to expect to be still given more chances even though its taken near enough 3 school years to find the motivation to do your current course.

I think you've been really lucky to have such an understanding tutor so far. If someone like me was given so many chances all those years ago it would be interesting to know where my life would be today. Maybe on 6 figures:roll:

I just feel your taking the mick to expect to be still given more chances even though its taken near enough 3 school years to find the motivation to do your current course.

Its not like the guys having a free ride, tution fees aren't cheap you know, he's paying for the education you dont just pay for the knowledge of tutors, you pay for the help, guidance and support! Not to mention also the amount of debt hes probably in from student loans to pay for living costs while at uni!

BTW, SheffieldFox i didn't know that the maximum mark you could get was a 40% so yeah fair enough i get what you're saying!

Its not like the guys having a free ride, tution fees aren't cheap you know, he's paying for the education you dont just pay for the knowledge of tutors, you pay for the help, guidance and support! Not to mention also the amount of debt hes probably in from student loans to pay for living costs while at uni!

BTW, SheffieldFox i didn't know that the maximum mark you could get was a 40% so yeah fair enough i get what you're saying!

Yes tutors are there to provide some help and guidance, but when you're faced with a year of over 100 students there are limits to the amount you can do. Many students also expect to be 'spoon-fed' and have their hands held throughout their degree, which not only do we not have time for, it defeats the object of doing a degree in the first place.

Yes tutors are there to provide some help and guidance, but when you're faced with a year of over 100 students there are limits to the amount you can do. Many students also expect to be 'spoon-fed' and have their hands held throughout their degree, which not only do we not have time for, it defeats the object of doing a degree in the first place.

I don't think he expects to be 'spoon-fed ' he messed up he wants to put it right. All i'm saying is in my opinion at the end of the day as long as tution fees are paid he should be offered support especially seeing as hes trying to turn things around! If anything a tutor reacting in the way his tutor has could only de-motivate yet again - and ultimatley end in either being kicked off the course or sheffieldfox quitting it!

I don't think he expects to be 'spoon-fed ' he messed up he wants to put it right. All i'm saying is in my opinion at the end of the day as long as tution fees are paid he should be offered support especially seeing as hes trying to turn things around! If anything a tutor reacting in the way his tutor has could only de-motivate yet again - and ultimatley end in either being kicked off the course or sheffieldfox quitting it!

I don't think he expects to either sorry, I was just putting across a general reflection of what many students are like now. As I said in my first post though, if he has previously been to see his tutor, was given advice and then doesn't go along with what he's been asked to do, I don't blame the tutor for being a bit peed off. It's a two way street, we can't help students who don't attempt to help themselves.

I know it seems harsh on some of the things that are said, but this is also reality. Okay, you may say that because this generation of students are paying for student fees, that they should be given more support. Kind of like a monetary transaction. Though, I would think that in such circumstances, it is down to the university's regulations and discrepencies on how they treat the situation. Students cannot expect the world. There is also a small element of responsibility involved by the individual.

Courses differ depending on what the subject is. SheffieldFox's course sounded like mine. 1st year, no marks are counted towards the degree. You are expected to pass the first year only. 2nd yr's exams and coursework count 40% towards the overall degree. Final yr is like 60% of the overall degree. Each year, you are expected to get at least 40% to pass onto the next. If you need to re-take in your 2nd year, some rules will define that you can get a maximum of a 3rd class honors only (i.e. 40%). It depends on how the university wants to play it, and how indepth they want the students to know the subject.

On a very honest note, I know that my personal tutor never went to such an extent to help me. The tutor sounded like he is kind of bending the rules quite a tad. I can understand why he is angered, cos he's trying to help you by letting you do your work without time constraints. Not everybody gets a time extension to do the same piece of work. People should not be expected to be 'spoon fed' in this kind of way.

Just wanted to add a comment here about motivations, and other issues. I know when I was a student, I never took the opportunity to use the student counselling services. Maybe I should've done, as some friends mentioned it to me. Whatever seems to be on your mind, and is making you less motivated, I would agree with what others said previously about seeking help from your student counselling service in the Student Union building. Not every student will make use of such facilities, but I'm sure they know too well the worries and pressure a student gets. I recall a friend killed himself because of family pressure and such. I'm not gonna pry, and I don't need to know. Though, from what you said, something needs to be addressed and resolved. So you can move on from it, and concentrate a lot more on what you need to do to get a degree.

Its not like the guys having a free ride, tution fees aren't cheap you know, he's paying for the education you dont just pay for the knowledge of tutors, you pay for the help, guidance and support! Not to mention also the amount of debt hes probably in from student loans to pay for living costs while at uni!

BTW, SheffieldFox i didn't know that the maximum mark you could get was a 40% so yeah fair enough i get what you're saying!

You have a point...nah maybe not!!!! If i (as a student) or most likely parents were paying £1,150 (or whatever) which for some is now 3k, then wouldn't that give a person little bit more motivation so succeed rather than waiting for near enough 3 years to get motivated????

As the twiglet tree said sheffieldfox has been given plenty of opportunity to discover the motivation for the course and loads of help from his tutor. What more help is needed??? He needs to take responsibility for himself.

Sorry i'm not being anti student, just realistic.

Good luck though SheffieldFox:thumbsup: