hello girls
am interested in the changing dynamics of family in britain today. apparently 25% of women aged 25-50 in america do not want children.

is it the same over here? if you haven't already got any children...do you want some...ever? or do you have other priorities in life? if so, what are they?

thanks folks!

:)

:clap: I want it all! :clap:
High paid job, gorgeous car, gorgeous house, gorgeous husband, gorgeous kids -- and in that order :D

hello girls
am interested in the changing dynamics of family in britain today. apparently 25% of women aged 25-50 in america do not want children.

is it the same over here? if you haven't already got any children...do you want some...ever? or do you have other priorities in life? if so, what are they?

thanks folks!

:)

Nope - don't want kids at all!! I DO like to see children from time to time, as long as they're not heard!! ;)

Seriously - I do like kids but I like it best when I get to give them back to their doting parents !! Why? .....

Tears, paddies in supermarkets, poop, vomit, mardiness, awkwardness, going rigid when it's time to put them in the pram, a financial responsibility for life (a child is for life not just for christmas! lol), you have to arrange babysitters - Need I go on?!

All life-forms are self-preserving, self-replicating biochemical machines.

If you don't have a strong desire for self preservation, you don't survive long enough to reproduce.

If you don't have a strong desire to reproduce, your genes don't survive to the next generation.

Not wanting children is not natural ???? :bigsmile: :love:

I love children and part of me would like them but it's overridden by the part that knows I would find it too much to handle. Give me other people's children that I can look after and then give back any day!!

i cant answer the poll.

at the moment i have absolutely no intention of having children either now or in the future.

theyre not something that feature in my life plan.

however, i do recognise that maybe in a few years, or even longer i might change my mind. i dont want to say never, but at moment, i cant think of anything worse.

i struggle to look after myself, so the idea of being responsible for someone else who has no chance of fending for themself is thoroughly terrifying.

sophie
x

You only have one life so people what ever the choices they make about having children is up to them....but...dont you think about when your old and dont have any family around you? I'm not saying thats the reason to have children because it isn't but that thought would always be at the back of my mind.

All life-forms are self-preserving, self-replicating biochemical machines.
No they're not. Self-preserving maybe (unless you're into BASE jumping...), but not self-replicating; unless you happen to be an amoeba of course. Our somatic DNA will merrily replicate itself, but I thought you were talking about reproduction here?
If you don't have a strong desire for self preservation, you don't survive long enough to reproduce.
True, but a strong desire for self-preservation does not necessarily go hand in hand with a desire to reproduce.
If you don't have a strong desire to reproduce, your genes don't survive to the next generation.
Yes they do. They just don't get to contribute to the next generation.
Not wanting children is not natural ???? :bigsmile: :love:
We've come along way. We have a little thing called choice...

They dont call me cruella for nothing !..i hate kids.

They dont call me cruella for nothing !..i hate kids.
LOL. You might want to take a look at this thread:
Those horrid, nasty child-haters (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=89988&highlight=child+haters).

Some women just aren't maternal, I guess. ::shrug::

I don't mind small babies; a quick cuddle and then hand them back to the parents before they start sicking up and pooing everywhere. Older children should be seen but not heard. Toddlers should be kept out of public sight until school age.

I don't mind small babies; a quick cuddle and then hand them back to the parents before they start sicking up and pooing everywhere. Older children should be seen but not heard. Toddlers should be kept out of public sight until school age.

You are full of the milk of human kindness today, ppn :D
I was a baby once, and I never did any of those things, as far as I remember:)

There is a future for the human race, looking at up-to-date Poll results.

58% of you ladies want children.........that's more than a quarter of the Human race who wish to continue the human species....

All is not lost.

Perhaps I shouldn't contribute to this thread being a male of the species...but I just thought...Oh what the hell........sorry :thumbsup:

I'm all for personal choice and doing what you want to do in life. But I have never understood people hating babies / children. They're just little people. :confused:

You are full of the milk of human kindness today, ppn :D
LOL. As I've said before, I'm with Lady Macbeth; the milk of human kindness is over-rated.
I was a baby once, and I never did any of those things, as far as I remember:)...
I bet you did. Probably simultaneously :D .

I'd love to have had children- I wanted a football team. Unfortunately my health had other plans, and one of the side effects of tamoxifen that I wasn't informed about was endometriosis severe enough that the only treatment was a hysterectomy.

In a word (or several) NO. I don't want children. I never have done. I actively dislike children and I didn't post on the thread involving child haters as I really can't be bothered with arguments and justifications with blinkered maternal types.

I'm not a maternal type - I struggle to care about anyone or anything other than myself. I can't imagine putting my body through all that stress and strain by choice - haemorrhoids, swollen ankles, nausea, back ache, stretch marks, possible tearing in a very sensitive area never designed to have stitches, pain, screaming, argh!! How can anyone volunteer to go through that for the sake of producing something that will then proceed to make your life hell, suck up all your money, time, conversation skills, social life and interfere with precious wonderful sleep?

The thought of mopping up vomit and other bodily excretions fills me with horror. My neat ordered life has no room for a screaming little monster trashing my house...if I wanted everything I own destroyed, rendered useless or covered in icky stuff I'd get a pet.

All my life people have been telling me I'd change my mind. Soon (I hope) it will be too late! Others around me have fallen but I'm holding strong against this need to procreate. There are too many people in the world as it is and people want to create more? The roads are overcrowded, there are people living on the streets, wars, pestilence, famine, crime, misery, poverty...everyday something about the world annoys me and everyday I read about some tragedy that's occurred somewhere and people want to bring children into that environment? I've never forgiven *my* mother for bringing *me* into it!

Life is hard work and made harder by the increasing deterioration in society, some of it caused by 'the yoof of today' and 'bad parenting skills' - who wants to be to blame for making it harder? God I could go on forever...but I'll stop now 'cos lunch break just isn't long enough!:rant: :rant: :rant:

I'm 25 and single and absolutely love kids. The only thing stopping me is finding the right guy to have them with!

I can't wait to have them. People say the maternal instinct is very strong in me. Unfortunately I will probably end up giving up 7 years spent at uni and a number of years as a professional when I do so. However its something I would be prepared to do.

lucretia- im inclined to agree with you to an extent.

i like my life the way it is, i dont want to be responsible for somebody else, i dont want to HAVE to put somebody elses needs before mine, i cant afford to feed another mouth, i dont want to have all the associated negative body and health issues that go hand in hand with pregnancy (im not in the best shape as it is!).

personally, i think it would be really irresponsible of me to get pregnant at the moment. If i ever have children, i want it to be part of a 2 parent family (living together), in a house we own, with enough money to provide the necessary healthcare and decent living standards. This isnt a comment on how anybody else runs their life- this is just what i want. i cant provide that, in fact i cant even come close to providing that and i doubt that i will for many years.

the only bit i dont agree with is not forgiving your mum for giving birth to you (but im hope it was meant as a tongue in cheek comment). that said, i do feel guilty to my mum as i have already told her i have no intention of making her a grandma. luckily, she took this with a smile and said she was still too young to be a grandma (shes 58) and i agree with her.

that said, i feel great pity for those women who desperately want children but who know it wont happen, or it will be incredibly difficult for them to conceive. at least i have a choice, they dont and i think that must hurt so much.

a very close friend has a 1yr old daughter who is the result of a one night stand- personally i would have made a different choice, but my friend (the same age as me) had been told for a very long time that she would have difficulties conceiving due to ongoing health issues. when she told me she was pregnant, i was happy for her. she has the daughter she never thought she would have, even if the timing wasnt how she ever imagined it would be.

it just goes to show you never know how things will turn out.

sophie
x

I agree with Sophie and Lucretia,

I don't want any children and neither does my hubby for various reasons, but whatever your reasons for not wanting children I think it is much better to stick to them instead of feeling pressured into having kids by well meaning people that want to be Grannies/Aunties/Uncles.

The people I have come across that don't want children seem to have put a lot more thought into their reasons for NOT having children than the people I know that have had children for sometimes quite trival reasons, although I am sure they love them.

I just think that the decision to have children is the biggest decision you will ever make but many people do without a second thought, very often they aren't in a stable relationship or financially secure, yet when I tell people I don't want children, they look at me like I am some sort of weirdo.

Also some people think about when they are older it would be nice to have someone to keep an eye on you and have said to me "what about when your old you will be all alone", well apart from that been the worst reason for having kids, I used to work with old folk and the ones that had kids who didn't show up were a lot lonelier than the ones who didn't have them.

I'd better go now before I get on my soap box.

Sophie - yes I know what you mean about wanting two parents for a child - that's another reason I wouldn't have a child. As of yet I've never met a man who's children I wanted or who I felt I could trust to be there for me.

I'd *never* want to be a single mother - I'm in awe of women who are. It looks like incredibly hard work. I don't really understand why someone would choose to be a single mother but I guess it depends on how strong the maternal instinct is, and the argument of one loving parent versus two who don't really like each other (or the kid in some cases) is a valid one.

I hope my mother doesn't expect grandchildren. She knows better than to expect them from me and my brother is more interested in his computer than girls as far as I can see.. She doesn't need grandchildren though as the bro will never leave home!

I can see so many good reasons for not having children, and surprisingly not all of them are entirely selfish! I'd hate to be a kid in today's society. School was hard enough when I was there, at least I only got verbal abuse. Now it seems children are in danger of getting stabbed, happy slapped and god knows what else. What can any parent do about that? The schools don't really seem to be doing anything to stamp out kids hurting kids...it must just be so frustrating to be a parent now...I speak to people with children and they all have problems with schools and other kids and the neighbourhoods they live in...

I find it takes all my effort to look after myself, I don't feel like I'd ever be ready to look after anyone else. It's a wonder to me that anyone ever feels mature enough and ready for kids. It's such a responsibility, so much can go wrong and then everyone blames the parents. I don't want to be sent to jail because my kid refuses to go to school...

But then I don't consider myself responsible enough to look after anything that requires my input to stay alive. I kill plants!

Think you get shaped on this by a lot of personal experiences.

I was born in the 70s to a 20 year old single parent who then continued to live her life as she had before, going out clubbing most nights and going on the 1970s equivalent of Ibiza weekends(Jersey!) . My mum then decided at 31 to grow up a bit but by then she had a (v) mature 11 year old who could look out for herself thankyou very much. She had my sister, an accident at the age of 38 and whilst my mother is never going to win mother of the year award, she has a much better relationship with her.

Thus i saw that having children before you were ready to do so, was a huge mistake as you'd resent them. (Again i am talking about my personal experience not other people) So my ballpark figure to have them was in my late thirties.

I spent 13 years with a guy who categorically stated when we got together at 18 he never wanted children,(not an issue then!) but i always thought he'd change his mind in our thirties as he did on us living together and going through the whole engagement and marriage malarky. We never quite got married - split up that year - but he still stated he never wanted children. At the back of my mind i had resigned myself to never having them and in my twenties i always felt too young anyway.

Suddenly i was left with a choice - it was my choice now whether to have them or not, not to blame it on my ex!

My early thirties have been spent re-establishing myself in a new career and sorting out the financial difficulties my ex left me with. Plus single, apart from few month b/f and dates. So hardly in a good situation to have children.

I'm now 35 in a few weeks and no nearer to being in the right situation to consider it. Meeting the right person is more of an issue and the fact that i still like going out clubbing and enjoying myself another. But I am aware that i'm more than halfway past the countdown clock.

Often my mate (who is so upset she's not met the right man to settle down with) and I get asked, why have you made the decision not to have children? We haven't! It's just you got to meet the right person and get to know them first.

If anyone's seen the episode of Friends where Rachel turns 30, they will know what I am on about!

My partner and I have been together for 21 years and live a life of low-key luxury/sloth that we both enjoy.

In the morning we have breakfast and watch last nights TV highlights in bed, then go off to our part-time jobs. Come home and cook a proper meal, then either go to the pub, friends, dance classes, language classes, band practices, meals, book groups etc.

On our shared days off we explore the country, read the papers in cafes, listen to lots of music, bathe together for hours, go bargain shopping, do some exercise, or do nothing and then rest afterwards.

Why would we want kids? The cat tires me out.

My mate (2 kids) says he wants “don’t have kids” on his gravestone.

...Why would we want kids? The cat tires me out.

My mate (2 kids) says he wants “don’t have kids” on his gravestone.
LOL. Excellent post. Had me chuckling and nodding in agreement.

that said, i do feel guilty to my mum as i have already told her i have no intention of making her a grandma. luckily, she took this with a smile and said she was still too young to be a grandma (shes 58) and i agree with her.

wow, see how cool my mum is, shes even wearing shades! lol, i really need to learn emoticons- shes 58 really! lol

lucretia, definately agree on the single mum thing. my mate is on her own now after the father decided he wanted nothing to do with the child or her. she has been very pragmatic about this and said that she would cope without him, his support, in particular his money, but she did need information about his health and that of his family. shes a trainee nurse so was thinking ahead should the worst happen later in life.

she also offered him the opportunity to be as involved in the little uns life as much as he wished, visits, christening, birthdays, christmas etc. he has refused and wont even tell his parents about lillie-mae. how sad that his parents will never know they have a grandaughter and she will never know her dad.

im so proud of her, i know i could never cope the way she does. i would definately bottled it and this story would have had a very different ending if it had happened to me- possibly not so happy.


sophie
x

my mate is on her own now after the father decided he wanted nothing to do with the child or her. she has been very pragmatic about this and said that she would cope without him, his support, in particular his money, but she did need information about his health and that of his family.


Sounds like your mate will cope admirably. It wouldn't even occur to me to think of things like that!

It is a shame that the kid will miss out on a set of grandparents though. I wonder how the guy's parents would feel if they knew.

Sounds like your mate will cope admirably. It wouldn't even occur to me to think of things like that!

It is a shame that the kid will miss out on a set of grandparents though. I wonder how the guy's parents would feel if they knew.

never crossed my mind either- i think it must be her training that made her think of it.

the father is in the RAF, hes from a catholic family in northern ireland. he was single when it happened, and she told him as soon as she had confirmation from 3 tests (how cautious! some would say a bit late though).

by this time he had been told his posting was changing, he had got a new girlfriend and decided that his parents wouldnt approve and would be ashamed of him for what he had done. those were the reasons he gave her so i couldnt comment on whether they were truthful or not. although i fail to see how any prospective grandparent wouldnt want to know about or meet their grandchild- its a different relationship and responsibilty to being a parent- possibly slightly more enjoyable (?- more spoiling less responsibility?)

i still havent made up my mind about how i feel about his decision. ive only heard it from my friend and not from him. plus, if i was a bloke and that happened to me- id be petrified and would probably bottle it too. see, im definately not ready for this parenting malarky!

i hope one day lillie will understand about her biological father- but more than that, i hope that my friend meets a decent fella who can be a proper dad to lillie.

i also hope that lillie stays well and that there is never a need to try and trace the family she knows nothing about- i think it would be heartbreaking for all concerned.

sophie
x

i never wanted children, this might sound evil, but the best day of my life was the day that i found out that i couldnt have children, it took an issue away from me, i dont have to worry anymore, i just look at it like that i can live my life for me, do what i want, be who i want to be, i was never motherly material, im far too selfish for that. all through my life i have had people say that when i meet the right man, i will change my mind, well i met the right man, i married him, but nope i didnt want his babies.

I had wonderful parents and a pretty blissful childhood so for most of my youth I kept an open mind about being a wife and mother some day.

In the end, though, I chose not to have children because I realized my very immature partner (despite his protestations to the contrary) would never be a responsible father.

We're no longer together, but I am still OK with my decision. I strongly believe that procreating should be a conscious decision and undertaken only after much soul-searching. It's too important and life-changing to leave it to chance or circumstance.

If my maternal pangs ever become unbearable, I will adopt one of the millions of already-born children who need a mom.

LOL. You might want to take a look at this thread:
Those horrid, nasty child-haters (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=89988&highlight=child+haters).

Some women just aren't maternal, I guess. ::shrug::



On behalf of the human race.............. we thank you. ;)

can't imagine not having them one day but right now...........can't think of anything worse!!!

several of my friends have kids and the kids are great but its great waving bye bye just as the tantrums kick in.

i'm young, free and single at the moment and i really quite like it. one day though you never know.....

cor blimey!
some real strong feelings here....and its so nice to hear people writing what i feel (and have felt a freak for feeling for most of my life!).

i've NEVER wanted kids. thought of asking my folks for a hysterectomy for my 18th birthday. people have said i'd change my mind as i got older, met right person, but i still can't think of anything worse in my life than having kids, although the reasons have changed slightly over the years.

being a parent is probably the most important job in the world! if you don't get it right, your children are insecure and take it out on their partners, their colleagues, their friends for the rest of their lives! they never realise their full potential. how anyone can be happy enough that they are a well-adjusted adult and ready to confer their life-skills amazes me. the mission of raising happy, productive members of the community when there seems to be no basic tuition at all (!) is mammoth.

or maybe i just think too much...

:)

Good discussion.

I remember my room mate at uni said that she never wanted to have kids. I was shellshocked to hear it. Even though I know I saw it as 'one of those things you do' at some point in your life. Even way back then. I still think that I would want kids. Yes, I have met guys in the past whereby I thought I would 'want' to have his kids. Maybe it's a strange feeling, I dunno.

Though throughout these past few years, I was worried about having kids. Maybe it's the lack of understanding of what kids are like. i.e. how to control them, and how to make them eat or feed them etc. By now, I'm an auntie, I've been kind of helping out in this kind of process. It makes it less daunting.

To me, the singleton life is great, and even coupledom is great, but at the end of the day, I still do want to share a life with a partner, and have a kid to bring up together. Maybe I'm the maternal type, I dunno. Whether I do a good job, I won't know, but at least I know how to teach it, and what to teach it. I have thought about bringing a kid into the world, and be another mouth to use up resources, and increases the population, but... he/she would be a useful being, if I taught him/her how to survive and BE useful in this world.

No way would I be the type that would pop out a whole football team. 2 would do nicely. With the right person. :)

On behalf of the human race.............. we thank you. ;)
Ooooh, my sides are splitting Oscar Wilde.

The next time you get huffy because I've dared to question one of your half-assed theories, I'll chuck in an offensive personal criticism, just for a laugh, and see what your reaction is. I'm sure that will get the SF PMs whizzing.

Wait a minute, you put a smilie at the end of the sentence. Oh well, that's ok then.

My wife and i decided we did'nt want kids when we married for a few personal and family reasons at the time, as a result she decided to have the "snip" for want of a better word.

We have regretted it every single day of our life since, its painful for us both when family and freinds come round with their babies/children and seeing pregnant women in the street or she hears of children being abandoned or abused is even worse for my wife as it reminds her/us how stupid we were every time and how much we would have loved having children.

Needless to say its now too late to do anything about it, we both have health problems/late 40's and little income so fostering/adopting is out of the question so its something we have to live with.

So basically besides baring my soul in this thread (yea it did hurt typing this) all i'm saying is be very wary of taking rash steps if at the moment you dont want children you may live to regret it as we do..

Had a friend, who for years persuaded everyone she hated kids ... too big a commitment, smelly noisy badly behaved. She was smart had a good social life. Having a family simply wasn't an issue. Kids! who needs 'em? Then she met the right bloke nature kicked in and the maternal instinct was discovered. Point being - you never know how you can suddenly change when the time is right.

I think the idea that you 'decide' to have children, like some kind of rational decision is erroneous. If that were the case, prelinguistic hominids would have died out and sex-mad apes would have inherited the world. Perhaps this has already happened.

You either strongly feel the compulsion to do so, and do so, or you view it as an intellectual/lifestyle decision and don't.

What you give up to have children is far outweighed by what we all gain (continued survival of the species).

I think the idea that you 'decide' to have children, like some kind of rational decision is erroneous. If that were the case, prelinguistic hominids would have died out and sex-mad apes would have inherited the world. Perhaps this has already happened.

You either strongly feel the compulsion to do so, and do so, or you view it as an intellectual/lifestyle decision and don't.

What you give up to have children is far outweighed by what we all gain (continued survival of the species).

whats erroneous as you put it in sitting down and planning wether to have a family or not, yea i agree prelinguistic hominids would have died out if they thought like that but surely the point is it was survival of the species and a almost animalistic urge to procreate. today we are are supposed to be more civilised though granted i sometimes wonder and also standards of living and lifestyle are somewhat different from that era i would have thought, which surely is taken into consideration ie we now have a choice wether taken rightly or wrongly at the time.

I think it's erroneous, because I don't think that decision is made by the ego at all. I think that

a) some people, male and female, are much more predisposed towards parenthood than others
b)these people tend to arrange themselves, if possible, in circumstances that don't inhibit child rearing.

Family planning has been a great boon, and yet also a curse. As the so called DINKY set grows, the population pyramid becomes ever more top heavy.

We need kids, more than they need us in the end.

Not directed at anyone specifically.

Have kids, don't have kids. If you don't have kids, you'll need to make allowances for those that do. And vice versa.

We need kids, more than they need us in the end.

Not directed at anyone specifically.



Appart from anything else, they teach you about such things as patience, tolerance, humility, honesty, trust etc. when you thought you had it all in the bag! Having children lengthens your learning in life.

In a word (or several) NO. I don't want children. I never have done.

All my life people have been telling me I'd change my mind. Soon (I hope) it will be too late! Others around me have fallen but I'm holding strong against this need to procreate. There are too many people in the world as it is and people want to create more? The roads are overcrowded, there are people living on the streets, wars, pestilence, famine, crime, misery, poverty...everyday something about the world annoys me and everyday I read about some tragedy that's occurred somewhere and people want to bring children into that environment? I've never forgiven *my* mother for bringing *me* into it!



Oh dear me Lucretia_73! Here am I relying on you to procreate! If you don't have kids, who's going to pay for my pension in my old age? :hihi:

I never realised people felt so strongly- To say finding out you cant have kids was one of the best days of your life is bizarre in my eyes- no ones going to make you!? For most people it would be the worst, i've seen people go though it & its really not nice.

I personally know that I want children, i want to get my career stable & then start a family, my partner & I both have the same views luckily. I can understand people not wanting children as it does totally change your life, but it doesnt have to be for the worst like most of you think.

Oh dear me Lucretia_73! Here am I relying on you to procreate! If you don't have kids, who's going to pay for my pension in my old age? :hihi:

The children of the many people who actually want them:thumbsup:

By the time I'm of pensionable age (about 75 at the rate things are going) I don't think state pensions will still be around so it will have been up to me to save up for my dotage - certainly wouldn't want to rely on the youth of today, or tomorrow.

The children of the many people who actually want them:thumbsup:

By the time I'm of pensionable age (about 75 at the rate things are going)

here,here.

so far at the tender age of,(well, im sure you can guess!), i have resigned myself to working meself into oblivion just to support me and to attract a 'mate' (in the david attenborough meaning of the word!)

so far i have failed miserably, so bugr it. whats left to me...spinsterism, thatll do me cheers!

less physical pain, less self guilt, less cash, and whole lot load less of general pain and self loathing....

ill take the baby free option everytime, ta.

god bless depo!

x

Oh my Gosh what a shocking statistic!! :o
I'm a career girl fair enough, but at some point in my life I'd love to have a child. Its not to say that I get broody when I see babies, cos I know that if I got pregnant now, my life would be ruined. I'm only 19 for gods sake! (But still wanted to get my mush on this thread... hehe)
I'm thinking around the age of 28 I should have got my career sorted, my own home, a posh car, someone who can treat me right and loves me to bits. Then and only then I'll be talking baby-talk :) If I don't get all those things, then nope, not having one until I do!

I didn't want children between the ages of 14 and 31 years old and I met my husband when I was 22 so for us it was not a case of just being with the right person but when we both felt ready to start a family.

Luckily for us we both agreed that the time was right and I'm nearly 6 months pregnant with our first child.

So for those who really think they won't change their minds about having children, I agree with profion that it is best to wait until your late 30's before doing anything too drastic...just in case you do change your mind.

I'm typing this whilst feeling my son/daughter kicking inside me and it is the most wonderful feeling in the world. :)

yes but i have to find Mr right first

Some women just aren't maternal, I guess. ::shrug::



Yeah Yeah Hecate....

Then you meet someone
And fall in love
Nuture each other...
Move in together....
Nurture the house....
Nuture the garden
Get a dog (or a cat) and nurture that ....

And then the previously unthinkable happens :shocked: :D

And then you don't have time to nurture
The house
The garden
The cat/dog

Each other.......

Funny old world....

Draggletail, you had me til this bit:


...Each other.......
Mmmm. Maybe I should stick to the cats...

Anyone seen the Man Stroke Woman sketch where the new parents are going on and on at the single woman "Oh, you should have some children, you really should, you'd love it, you should, you should" - until she tells them she can't, they ask why not, and she says "because there's something wrong with my ****, ok, would you like to have a look?" :hihi:

I dislike the feeling amongst parents that you 'never truly experience love' until you have kids - for someone who loves with passion and tries to live compassionately that is hard to just accept with a smile and a nod - equally I dislike the kneejerk 'oh no, all those nappies and vomit, I'm worth more than that' - that a lot of young women do - motherhood is a really worthwhile thing to do and shouldn't be looked down upon just because its not career advancement.

Me, I love kids, have to see though won't we :)