I read The Guardian, most days. I don't understand why "Guardian reader" is used as such a term of abuse, eg in the recent Bernard Manning debate.

I enjoy The Grauniad - I find it witty, incisive and challenging. I like its diversity - that it will have articles in from a range of commentators no matter their political views eg you frequently get Tory MPs writing in it. It usually has a spread of satirical articles, poking fun at all sorts of situations. The range of views makes me think about why i believe what i believe.

Of course it is left-leaning and liberal and of course that is one of the reaons I like it - I share those standpoints. But the fact that it encourages open-mindedness appears to me to make it a target for abuse. I don't find that open-mindedness in many other mainstream newspapers and I do read the others, occasionally.

Illuminate me!

Originally posted by Smiler
I read The Guardian, most days. I don't understand why "Guardian reader" is used as such a term of abuse, eg in the recent Bernard Manning debate.

I enjoy The Grauniad - I find it witty, incisive and challenging. I like its diversity - that it will have articles in from a range of commentators no matter their political views eg you frequently get Tory MPs writing in it. It usually has a spread of satirical articles, poking fun at all sorts of situations. The range of views makes me think about why i believe what i believe.

Of course it is left-leaning and liberal and of course that is one of the reaons I like it - I share those standpoints. But the fact that it encourages open-mindedness appears to me to make it a target for abuse. I don't find that open-mindedness in many other mainstream newspapers and I do read the others, occasionally.

Illuminate me!

It's a fine newspaper agreed, but because of its lefty leanings it attracts (and has therefore become associated with) the sandal-wearing, save the whale, vegetarian, ban-everything demographic. Hence the jibes.

In very much the same way, the Mail and Telegraph's rabid right wing views are associated with Colonel Blimp types from the shires

only for teachers

don't think Samwise Gamgee was particularly right wing and he was from the Shires.

I can't be doing with all the intellectual tripe that they put in it. I prefer a quick read, which is why I read The Sun. I take most of reports in The Sun with a pinch of salt though.

Originally posted by Sidla
I can't be doing with all the intellectual tripe that they put in it. I prefer a quick read, which is why I read The Sun. I take most of reports in The Sun with a pinch of salt though.

Intellectual Tripe. This oxymoronic phrase reminds me of another insult that is prevelant these days that I don't understand. You here it mostly in the US from far right commentators such as Ann Coulter. I can understand the right hating "God damn lefties" as that is a contrary political opinion, but what's with the opposition to "God damn intellectuals"? Since when has possesion of rational thought been something to loathe?

Ok, let me reprase that.

I can't be doing with the articles in The Guardian which in my opinion are intellectual tripe, but if you like reading them then that's your prerogative.

Better?

There are tits in there as well but they are all journalists

Sidla what do you mean by intellctual tripe?

Originally posted by Sidla
Ok, let me reprase that.

I can't be doing with the articles in The Guardian which in my opinion are intellectual tripe, but if you like reading them then that's your prerogative.

Better?

What I'm getting is that surely something can either possess intellect or it can be tripe, unless you think the possession of intellect is in itself worthless. If the latter reflects your opinion then fine, I'm just saying it is not something I can identify with and do not understand. I do not understand why so many people these days condemn intellect. Surely it is something to strive for?

Originally posted by chill
What I'm getting is that surely something can either possess intellect or it can be tripe, unless you think the possession of intellect is in itself worthless. If the latter reflects your opinion then fine, I'm just saying it is not something I can identify with and do not understand. I do not understand why so many people these days condemn intellect. Surely it is something to strive for?

Perhaps pseudo intellectual tripe would have been a better phrase?

There's certainly been a lot of THAT thrown around in the recent Bernard Manning thread

Originally posted by chill
What I'm getting is that surely something can either possess intellect or it can be tripe, unless you think the possession of intellect is in itself worthless. If the latter reflects your opinion then fine, I'm just saying it is not something I can identify with and do not understand. I do not understand why so many people these days condemn intellect. Surely it is something to strive for?
I understand what you're saying, but you're reading me wrong. I buy a paper for a little light gossip, brief news updates and just generally for a little light reading over lunch. I'm not saying that intellect is tripe (although I admit that inadvertantly that's how it may have come accross). If I wanted to sit studying a newspaper for hours every day (I'm a slow reader admittedly), and wanted a real in-depth analysis of every news story, then I might buy the Guardian*.

* Other broadsheet newspapers are available.

Originally posted by Sidla
I understand what you're saying, but you're reading me wrong. I buy a paper for a little light gossip, brief news updates and just generally for a little light reading over lunch. I'm not saying that intellect is tripe (although I admit that inadvertantly that's how it may have come accross). If I wanted to sit studying a newspaper for hours every day (I'm a slow reader admittedly), and wanted a real in-depth analysis of every news story, then I might buy the Guardian*.

* Other broadsheet newspapers are available.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by mojoworking
It's a fine newspaper agreed, but because of its lefty leanings it attracts (and has therefore become associated with) the sandal-wearing, save the whale, vegetarian, ban-everything demographic

Erm... I think you'll find the 'lefty' and 'liberal' people are actually the "free-everything" types! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Erm... I think you'll find the 'lefty' and 'liberal' people are actually the "free-everything" types! :rolleyes:

Er, unless you're talking about the stuff that big business do (whaling, cutting down trees, open-cast mining, polluting the atmosphere etc).

I think you'll find they want nearly all of that banned.

Quite right too, I say.

Originally posted by Smiler
I read The Guardian, most days. I don't understand why "Guardian reader" is used as such a term of abuse, eg in the recent Bernard Manning debate.

I enjoy The Grauniad - I find it witty, incisive and challenging. I like its diversity - that it will have articles in from a range of commentators no matter their political views eg you frequently get Tory MPs writing in it. It usually has a spread of satirical articles, poking fun at all sorts of situations. The range of views makes me think about why i believe what i believe.

Of course it is left-leaning and liberal and of course that is one of the reaons I like it - I share those standpoints. But the fact that it encourages open-mindedness appears to me to make it a target for abuse. I don't find that open-mindedness in many other mainstream newspapers and I do read the others, occasionally.

Illuminate me!

I assume 'The Grauniad' is a hilarious little nickname given to the Guardian by its loyal readers????...mmm...nuff said!!!

Because none of us are completely perfect like you.

Give someone a break for christ's sake.

Wilf

Originally posted by wibbles
I assume 'The Grauniad' is a hilarious little nickname given to the Guardian by its loyal readers????...mmm...nuff said!!!

It acquired that nickname because at one time it was reknown for containing a lot of typos

I don't see why one should not read all newspapers, whatever their politics, I certainly do and it is essential to read about other peoples views, to be able to form an unbiased opinion.

It would be very narrow minded, to only read newspapers who are preaching to the converted, I have certain views and reading different editions, do not change my opinion about what is best for the majority of the people and for this country.

Originally posted by mojoworking
Er, unless you're talking about the stuff that big business do (whaling, cutting down trees, open-cast mining, polluting the atmosphere etc).

I think you'll find they want nearly all of that banned.

Quite right too, I say.

I completely agree with you (on both counts), but it is more of a green/environmentalist issue, rather than a left or right one. Left of centre, politically, is more about doing things for the good of everyone, rather than the few. As I undertsand it, anyway!

Originally posted by wibbles
I assume 'The Grauniad' is a hilarious little nickname given to the Guardian by its loyal readers????...mmm...nuff said!!!

No, wrong.

Originally posted by mojoworking
It acquired that nickname because at one time it was reknown for containing a lot of typos

Nope. Although the typo thing was correct, before spellchecker at least.

IIRC...
It acquired that nickname in the old days before DTP and when typesetters still laid up movable type by hand.

During an industrial dispute (of which there were many) the typesetters deliberately mis-spelled the mast head so that it read "The Grauniad" instead of going on strike or working to rule. Quite an effective demonstration

It stuck, especially in Private Eye, which is what I read in preference to the grauniad which is a simperingly wet newspaper constantly handwringing.

The news coverage is good though, but the op-ed sucks IMO - Torygraph op-ed under Moore was much better.

Remember the political compass folks (http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/questionnaire.pl?page=1)? Left and Right are meaningless terms when we don't have any mainstream left of centre parties anymore.

I've not seen that before and have just discovered that I'm rather more extreme in my views that I would have thought (X=-6.50&Y=-6.46) I suppose thats outed me as a bleeding heart pinko!!!

Originally posted by evildrneil
I've not seen that before and have just discovered that I'm rather more extreme in my views that I would have thought (X=-6.50&Y=-6.46) I suppose thats outed me as a bleeding heart pinko!!!

Hehe not bad.

But before everyone posts their political compass scores, bear in mind it has been covered here
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1023&highlight=political+compass

which is a good way of finding out how some of scored earlier.

The questions are periodically refreshed to reflect some current affairs and issues of the day. All in all I think it is quite a good questionnaire, if a little prone to 'being gamed'.

It's a nice excercise but it's been around a long time and is also a bit loaded.

I think I came out a liberal. I was most surprised!

According to this I'm Gandhi.

Originally posted by Lickszz
It's a nice excercise but it's been around a long time and is also a bit loaded.


Thats what I thought - they seem to have picked a particulaly emotive set of questions almost design to push people to the extremes! Most of these type of things I find myself answering agree/disagree/dont care to most questions - this one it was nearly all strongly agree/strongly disagree!

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
No, wrong.



Nope. Although the typo thing was correct, before spellchecker at least.

IIRC...
It acquired that nickname in the old days before DTP and when typesetters still laid up movable type by hand.

During an industrial dispute (of which there were many) the typesetters deliberately mis-spelled the mast head so that it read "The Grauniad" instead of going on strike or working to rule. Quite an effective demonstration

It stuck, especially in Private Eye, which is what I read in preference to the grauniad which is a simperingly wet newspaper constantly handwringing.

The news coverage is good though, but the op-ed sucks IMO - Torygraph op-ed under Moore was much better.

Remember the political compass folks (http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/questionnaire.pl?page=1)? Left and Right are meaningless terms when we don't have any mainstream left of centre parties anymore.

Although I don't dispute your story about the typesetters, I would suggest that the "Grauniad" tag was already in use when it happened.

Every website I checked gave exactly the same account of the origin of the nickname. Here is a typical example which is pretty much as I remember it happening in the 70s:

It is sometimes known affectionately as the Grauniad because it was noted for typographical errors in the past, including mis-spelling its own name once in the 1970s. Although such errors are now less frequent than they used to be, the 'Corrections and clarifications' column can still often provide some amusement

The same website also featured this:

The term "Guardian reader" is often used pejoratively. The stereotype of a Guardian reader is a person with leftist politics, rooted in the 1960s, regularly eating lentils, wearing sandals and believing in alternative medicine and natural medicine, despite extensive science coverage including a contempt for alternative medicine.

Well according to this : http://www.guardian.co.uk/newsroom/story/0,11718,735571,00.html ....

1961 To enable swifter delivery of the Guardian to southern England the newspaper begins printing in London as well as Manchester on 11 September 1961. Difficulties with the printing system earn the newspaper the nickname 'The Grauniad'.

Considering the article source you would hope that they would know.

Nomme

Originally posted by nomme
Well according to this : http://www.guardian.co.uk/newsroom/story/0,11718,735571,00.html ....

1961 To enable swifter delivery of the Guardian to southern England the newspaper begins printing in London as well as Manchester on 11 September 1961. Difficulties with the printing system earn the newspaper the nickname 'The Grauniad'.

Considering the article source you would hope that they would know.

Nomme

Exactly.

But nowhere does it say that the name was deliberately spelled wrong, or that a deliberate incident was the origin of the nickname 'The Grauniad'.

"Difficulties with the printing system" means typos, as far as I can see.

Well, personally it's the only paper I trust to give a fair and balanced viewpoint. The way it's set up (the Scott Trust I think it's called) means that the _only_ priority for the paper is to provide independent journalism.

Of course to do that, it has to stay afloat, but there is neverthelss a constitutional commitment to journalism which is sadly lacking elsewhere.

IMO that should be the model for every industry, especially public-sector; so people working in education would have an organisational commitment to education (not training), people in medicine to the nation's health (not targets or profit.)

I think that could also apply to private-sector, so that business-people would have a commitment to making business work for everyone, not just their shareholders.

(BTW I was in the far-bottom left corner of that compass thing, ~ -7/-6 but from the site and this discussion, I'm in good company ;)

Originally posted by mojoworking
Exactly.

But nowhere does it say that the name was deliberately spelled wrong, or that a deliberate incident was the origin of the nickname 'The Grauniad'.

"Difficulties with the printing system" means typos, as far as I can see.

Yeah. Despite frantic googling, I am coming to the conclusion that it is an aprocyphal story (about the typesetter dispute deliberately mis-spelling the masthead).

But I have to prove to myself at least that this is the case, since I had this story filed under "unquestionably true".

digging....

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Yeah. Despite frantic googling, I am coming to the conclusion that it is an aprocyphal story (about the typesetter dispute deliberately mis-spelling the masthead).

But I have to prove to myself at least that this is the case, since I had this story filed under "unquestionably true".

digging....

Perhaps you should write to 'Notes and Queries'...:P

<Ducks and runs>

Nomme

N&Q is just full of apocrypha too

If it happened then the story exists somewhere, and I will find it.

Over here in Canada I read the Guardian on the internet every day.
You dont know how lucky you are to have such a fine paper.
How far left is left?
It seems the Guardian is constantly bashing Blairs party.
Isn't his party supposed to be on the left

To the left of general Pinochet perhaps

Originally posted by sweetdexter
It seems the Guardian is constantly bashing Blairs party.
Isn't his party supposed to be on the left

It's not his party, he's just borrowed it.