Hi,

My partner's grandfather served with the 'desert rats' during the 2nd World War. He was from Sheffield.

Does anyone have an idea which regiment he would have joined to be in North Africa??

We are both very interested to find out more!

Thanks in advance, helenespana

My dad was in the North Africa Campaign - I will call him tommorow and find the precise details of his regiment - all I know right now was that it was nicknamed the "Iron Fist" regiment and they all wore an iron fist emblem.

I was in the navy but a mate of mine was in the Royal Marines and was sort of attached to the Desert Rats but way in the background.

Mine served in a tank regiment, but I'm not sure which regiment but I'll try to check. My Gt Uncle was there in the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders... until he was blown up in Tunisia in '43.

Google is probably the best place to start.

The 24th Infantry Division, United States Army, was known as the Iron Fist, but so were the Middlesex Regiment in long and distant past.

The 4th Field Squadron Royal Engineers were also Desert Rats. So good look in trying to find him. I believe that there are Army records that you can search, someone on here may be able to tell you where to find them.

Hope you find him, regards Pete.

Hi,

My partner's grandfather served with the 'desert rats' during the 2nd World War. He was from Sheffield.

Does anyone have an idea which regiment he would have joined to be in North Africa??

We are both very interested to find out more!

Thanks in advance, helenespana

The desert rats 7th Division were made up of numerous regiments and not all English, indeed any regiment that fought in this Div could proudly wear the Jerboa shoulder flash.
My uncle also from Sheffield (Polar Bears) fought and was captured at Tobruk but latter escaped to fight another day.
I assume your partner’s grandfather survived the war, this being the case I can only suggest asking friends and relatives also any army photo’s you may have of him which show cap badge, shoulder flash and so on, if however he perished “ god forbid “ then-

http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14

The rats as I know them ,came from all sorts of odd regiments,a rag tag group that operated out of KUFRAH oasis (different spelling), find a map of Libya, go way south nothing else down there,I was in Libya for 3yrs a dirty and scruffy a lot (When operating in the desert)you would ever see,nothing like the smart one as seen in Richard Todds "The Desert Rats" this 1944/5/6 british film may still be obtainable ,a semi true version.I sincerely hope all the American versions where burnt as pure trash.Americans in southern desert, yuck i still get pains thinking about it.

The regiment that dad was attached to was City of London Yeomanry, Rough Riders 11th A.A. division

Take a look at :

http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.paterson/org.htm#Late1939

This gives what's called the 'order of battle' of the Desrt Rats at different times in WW2. This is the list of regiments making up the Division.

My uncle was attached to the Eighth Army at El Alamein as part of the Coldstream Guards.

Joe

all desert rats were part of the 8th Army and were given the privilige of wearing a silver "8" on their medal. My father has this and was in the Royal Corps of Signals, he is now 91.

Ahh now i understand the different versions, the first Desert Rats were the defenders of Trubruk this name was given to them by Rommel, The 2nd Desert Rats maybe came fm the same group 40to50 men tops operated out of Kufrah all in jeeps ,main job working behind enemy lines, in blow something up and out fast,I would very much doubt these more famous Rats wore anything special.I could send you a pic of me,looking like one of the local arabs ,and that would be my best uniform, 3mths growth on our chin & when we stank too bad we drank a cup of hot tea got into a sweat & scraped the mud off our bodys with a knife,nobody knew what army we belong to or would own us.

My uncle was in th LRDG (Long Range Desert Group)operating behind enemy lines 1941 captured at Gazala December 1941 escaped in 1943 and was on the run in Northern Italy for 2 years

OOps maybe I'm the one geting confused,i was in Libya in 49 its been a long time. The long range desert group operated out of Kufrah Iwas there for 3mths in50,I was thinking they was also called the Desert Rats I must be mistaken,So that leads me to thinking what was that film called about this group,"Tubruk" was film about the Tubruk Rats,I'm now starting to second guess myself.Darren many fightlng groups came to Libya during my stay,some only for a few months , some like the Greys stayed for 2-3 yrs in Derna.I was with the Royal Signals,trained as wireless Op never any good at it, so lied through my teeth,told my C.O I rode motor-bike in civy st and got a change of trade to Dispatch Rider,I'd never sat on a bike in my life,so had a fun few mths.

Good old Google why do I knock my head against a brick wall when Google
memory is a liitle better than my own.300+books on L.R.D.G & N-african campain,I only saw 1 mention of them & rats in the same breath and they used the term "this rat patrol".This may be in referance to the U.S t v series "The Rat Patrol"1966 which caused such anger in britian at the time.I cruised the BritMovie Forum and got some info on old war movies

Good old Google why do I knock my head against a brick wall when Google
memory is a liitle better than my own.300+books on L.R.D.G & N-african campain,I only saw 1 mention of them & rats in the same breath and they used the term "this rat patrol".This may be in referance to the U.S t v series "The Rat Patrol"1966 which caused such anger in britian at the time.I cruised the BritMovie Forum and got some info on old war movies

The LRDG were really the forerunners of the present SAS, and infact many members of David Stirlings "originals" were drawn from the LRDG...they roamed in small mobile groups behind enemy lines carrying out reconnaisence, harrassing attacks and also escorting larger groups across the dessert...so maybe they did act with the Rats on occasions, but were not known for that.

My Dad was in the Queens Own Yorkshire Dragoons, and was included in the desert rats. The dragoons were also the last unit to go into action on horse back during the 2nd w war.
The unit was drawn from men in Sheffield, Rotherham and Doncaster.

all desert rats were part of the 8th Army and were given the privilige of wearing a silver "8" on their medal. My father has this and was in the Royal Corps of Signals, he is now 91.

Hi. My dad was in the Signals too! Wonder if your dad would have known him. His name was Norman Oakley and his rank was Sergeant.

The whole of the British 8th Army were desert rats,including the soldiers from South Africa,India,Australia,New Zealand,even Scotland,sorry just joking.

Somebody mentioned Qufra,in southern Libya. There is a US aircraft there which crashed after running out of fuel. It had left Tripoli with other US bombers on their way to bomb Italy but they were short of navigators and this one managed to find it's target but failed to find Tripoli and kept flying and crashed at Qufra.

The area is so dry the tins of food etc. are like new. I went down there in the early 60s. from Benghazi. I was with the 14/20 Kings Hussars.

Hi. My dad was in the Signals too! Wonder if your dad would have known him. His name was Norman Oakley and his rank was Sergeant.
I was in the Royal corps of sigs. from 1952 to 73. Do you know which Division he served in and when.

I was in the Royal corps of sigs. from 1952 to 73. Do you know which Division he served in and when.
I was with the signals with 25th armour at Binena(Air-port) from 52-55 the 14/21 ? Huzzars were also there about 53,visited Kufrah oasis twice(Isort of remember it was spelt with a Q back then).Also was D.R fm down town sigs on loan for 6mths

The desert rats were the 7th Armoured Division,I remember in my early years in the Army seeing them wearing the rat insignia on their shoulders. I also remember going back to York after a 72 hour pass and talking to some desert rats who were on their way to collect a demob. suit at Strensall Barracks.

Flyer, I was in Benghazi in 1963-4, I was O.C. 14/20th independent Signal troop. We were a recce regiment in a barracks outside town on the airport road. I talked to Qaddafi a couple of times,he was stationed at the British Military Mission in town,a Signals officer,he took over from a Col. who'd been shot just outside our barracks and his body was kept in the hospital morgue.

Flyer, I was in Benghazi in 1963-4, I was O.C. 14/20th independent Signal troop. We were a recce regiment in a barracks outside town on the airport road. I talked to Qaddafi a couple of times,he was stationed at the British Military Mission in town,a Signals officer,he took over from a Col. who'd been shot just outside our barracks and his body was kept in the hospital morgue.
Yes Florida I seem to remember a barracks half way between Benghazi and the air-port barracks, the Sinusi police was in there guarding King Idris and palace which was also on the air-port rd in 52,as D.R worked the entire area but places in Benghazi are begining to fade fm memory.I did try and take my bike to Kufrah, but never got past Jarlo,hit a tank track at night so goodbye bike.

Yes Florida I seem to remember a barracks half way between Benghazi and the air-port barracks, the Sinusi police was in there guarding King Idris and palace which was also on the air-port rd in 52,as D.R worked the entire area but places in Benghazi are begining to fade fm memory.I did try and take my bike to Kufrah, but never got past Jarlo,hit a tank track at night so goodbye bike.

I was orderly officer on one particular day and went home in Bengahzi to change. I lived opposite the School on the main Rd. I got out of the car and heard a commotion in the School playground,looked over and saw the Sinusi smashing rocks onto the kids heads as they ran out,one of the kids climbed the fence and was shot. Shortly after that Qaddafi called the coup and the despot Idris was gone.

I was in the Royal corps of sigs. from 1952 to 73. Do you know which Division he served in and when.

Found references to:

the 50th Infantry Division
the 50th (Northumbrian) Div
1st Holding Bn R Sigs

My father served during 2nd World War. Does this help?

Cheers

Hi. My dad was in the Signals too! Wonder if your dad would have known him. His name was Norman Oakley and his rank was Sergeant.

Sorry for being so tardy Jass. My father is 92 in October and has Alzheimers. He would not know which war he was in, although still very bright he does sometimes recall being in the army, especially being in the desert. He hardly remembers that I had a career in the Royal Navy. My father was/is Sergeant Frank Swann and was renowned for playing the piano, especially in Cairo.

The Desert Rats were men of the 7th Armoured Division who adopted the jerboa, a desert rat, as their divisional insignia when the division was reformed in December 1939. The design was chosen by the Div Cmdr General Creagh (?) During WWII the jerboa was also worn by the 4th and 7th Armored Brigades. Anyone attached to these units would have worn cloth badge on the upper arm - Sigs, REME, RASC, RAMC even RMP and Catering Corps. It is still worn today (I think) by 7th Armored Brigade and as tanks are suitable for desert war turns up in the Gulf Wars amid much hype from the media. Talking to a guy who wore the sign in both Gulf Wars he couldn't understand the fuss. Apparently squaddies of today aren't taught the histories of their Regiments. Desert Rats of WWII were not named for their living style. That was purely Hollywood and Pinewood.

The Desert Rats were men of the 7th Armoured Division who adopted the jerboa, a desert rat, as their divisional insignia when the division was reformed in December 1939. The design was chosen by the Div Cmdr General Creagh (?) During WWII the jerboa was also worn by the 4th and 7th Armored Brigades. Anyone attached to these units would have worn cloth badge on the upper arm - Sigs, REME, RASC, RAMC even RMP and Catering Corps. It is still worn today (I think) by 7th Armored Brigade and as tanks are suitable for desert war turns up in the Gulf Wars amid much hype from the media. Talking to a guy who wore the sign in both Gulf Wars he couldn't understand the fuss. Apparently squaddies of today aren't taught the histories of their Regiments. Desert Rats of WWII were not named for their living style. That was purely Hollywood and Pinewood.
And so my mistake in taking a British war movie as truth ,the movie"Tobruk" said the name Desert Rats was givern by Rommel to the defenders of Tobruk.British war movies noted for thier almost documenty style must have erred on this one,just cant trust anyone

I was orderly officer on one particular day and went home in Bengahzi to change. I lived opposite the School on the main Rd. I got out of the car and heard a commotion in the School playground,looked over and saw the Sinusi smashing rocks onto the kids heads as they ran out,one of the kids climbed the fence and was shot. Shortly after that Qaddafi called the coup and the despot Idris was gone.
I must say its with some supprise to read your Idris & Sinusi comments,When we first moved into the Air port barracks the Sinusi was in the other half,and we found them to be top class police,with them and Idris doing a very hard job in trying to find order from the chaos of the war.They had to be 100,000 living in Tin town on the outskirts of Bengahzi all driven fm the desert.The Italian civil service was finished & the only money coming into the country was fm British troops.I suppose things must have changed as time went on.

The LRDG were not the forerunners of the SAS. The LRDG were the brainchild of a guy called Bagnold (I think) who explored the Western Desert prior to the war. Stirlings first parachute landing was a cock up so he teamed up with the LRDG originally to take him places until he scrounged his own transport. There was another desert group called Popski's Private Army which did similar work in N Africa and later Italy. Strangely, New Zealanders and Rhodesians adapted to the the LRDG life better than most.

These threads are tops. To those of you ex squaddies who made Koufra, you've been somewhere not many Brits have been to even in this age of gap years and backpacking. Koufra was apparently ther home of the Italian equivalent of the LRDG and captured by the Free French. (No contest there then) They lost a colonel and a New Zealander. The film Rats of Tobruk starred Welshman Richard Burton who played an English officer commanding Aussie troops. The diggers were a stubborn lot and Rommel allegedly announced that they were 'trapped like rats' so the diggers proudly called themselves the 'rats of tobruk'. Tobruk was also defended at times by S. Africans and Poles but the Australians are best remembered and quite rightly is one of there battle honours. But, even today,if you tell a 21st century digger that your father/grandfather in the British Army was at Tobruk you will be called a bloody liar or something similar and get a punch in the mouth.

Hi
My uncle was in the LRDG and captured at Gazala on 12 December 1941. He was transfered to an Italian POW camp in Umbria and subsequently escaped, lived rough until the second half of 1944 when he was picked up by the allies and eneded up in Bavaria before returning back to Sheff in 1946