View Full Version : WARNING: any Sheffield leasehold property owners?


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Foxxx
23-03-2004, 12:24
Does anyone here own a leasehold house in Sheffield??

Just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience to me, and to warn people of not falling for it.

I bought my house not far off 2 years ago, and like many houses in Sheffield its leasehold. My ground rent is 2 pounds a year. Since I moved in I haven't been contacted by my 'landlord' to pay any rent. I don't hold my deeds, the bank does so I don't have any details of the landlord. Recently I got a letter saying I owed £4 (which is correct) and that I may have other debts on my account. I sent a cheque for £4 and a week later they sent it back saying I owed the £4 but would not accept it until I paid the £229 admin costs for the late payment. They have also been phoning my mortgage centre and telling them I owe them money and threatening all sorts. My bank then rings me to tell me to sort it out. I then phone the landlord and get given a managers number which when I ring it, I only get a voicemail. I leave a message and he never returns my call. Meanwhile my 'debt' builds up. My bank are getting annoyed and so am I.
The landlord company is called Estates and Management ltd and is based in London. The letter they sent stated that my ground rent is owed whether demanded or not and that I am in breach of my lease and they will take me to court if I don't pay the £229.
Luckily I rang my solicitor and she has assured me that I owe them nothing but the £4. She said they have no right to demand admin costs and that they would never take you to court because they would never win and they know that. When you buy your house, your solicitor informs Estate and Management ltd (or whoever it is) of the change in deeds and that they are supposed to send you a bill for your first year or ground rent when it is due. My solicitor said, they never do send it, they wait till it's overdue then send you a fine. Its how they actually make their money, by scaring people with legal jargon and threats and by contacting your bank making you look bad to them. She has advised I resend the £4 cheque and if they send it back again, keep all letters and pay nothing until I move out at which point I will settle all outstanding rent.

I nearly paid it as I was worried, even though I'd never received a bill, I thought they had the right to fine you without demanding the rent. Estates and management buy all the leaseholds up around sheffield then make their money by doing this to people. Has this happended to anyone here? How can E&M get away with this? Surely it is illegal for them to send these letters stating incorrect law in it?

mojoworking
23-03-2004, 13:06
Tories robbing Tories, whatever next?

Some people have no shame.

Foxxx
23-03-2004, 14:08
Originally posted by mojoworking
Tories robbing Tories, whatever next?

Some people have no shame.

I'm not sure what you mean by that or what the relevence is. Could you explain?

Tony
23-03-2004, 14:36
Originally posted by mojoworking
Tories robbing Tories, whatever next?

Some people have no shame.

Eh? what's it got to do with ANY political party?

mojoworking
23-03-2004, 14:38
Originally posted by Foxxx
I'm not sure what you mean by that or what the relevence is. Could you explain?

Nothing to explain.

I'm sure we can all relate to your problem.

Life can be SO unfair sometimes, can't it?

Ravenger
23-03-2004, 14:42
I had a similar situation.

My ground rent was £11 per year, but we were offered the lease to our house for £500, inclusive of the "landlord's" legal fees.

I talked to a solicitor about it and he said that it was probably a bit expensive, but it was worth buying the lease just in case the landlord sold the lease on to someone else who might try to exploit it for more money.

So we started the process of buying the lease, but it took at least a year to sort out because of solicitor delays from the landlord, etc. In fact our solicitor nearly reported theirs to the Law Society for delaying such a simple process for so long.

Just before it was all finalised, and after I had paid to buy the lease I had a request from the landlord for the ground rent, which I ignored because I thought it was a mistake - we were just about to close the deal, and he already had £500 of my money.

The next thing I knew was that I had a letter from the landlord to say that he'd told our building society that we'd defaulted on our ground rent! This was followed up by a letter from the building society saying they'd add the amount owed onto my mortgage, and that the fact I was a defaulter would be put on my mortgage record! :loopy:

Needless to say I wasn't very pleased. It took me quite a while to sort the mess out, during which the lease sale finally went through.

I eventually got the building society to back down after I sent them a solicitor's letter confirming that I was now the lease owner, and that I couldn't owe a debt to myself. :rolleyes:

Foxxx
23-03-2004, 16:29
Originally posted by mojoworking
Nothing to explain.

I'm sure we can all relate to your problem.

Life can be SO unfair sometimes, can't it?

a) you can only relate if you own a leasehold house
b) it's not my problem, it's everyone's problems if they own a leasehold house and their landlord is Estate management ltd or similar company doing the same thing.
c) I am informing people so they don't get ripped off if this happens to them

Quit the sarcasm. Why bother posting if you have nothing constructive to say.

Have you been in this situation? It has nothing to do with policitics. It is to do with a company and others like it, trying to rip people off. "Tories robbing tories". a) why do you assume I am tory? b) this affects people in sheffield whom generally speaking do not vote tory.

I was trying to help other people.

I was trying to find out if anyone else has had this happen to them and if anyone on here knows how they get away with it.

Cols
23-03-2004, 16:45
Foxxx
Don't get upset. There are people on these boards who contribute useful stuff (like your post and the post about carcraft warranties) and there are those who have nothing to contribute so just wind people up.

Keep posting .......

Col S

Tony
23-03-2004, 16:52
Foxx, if youre solicitors has advised you already you seem to need to write a letter, including "my solicitor advises me that..."

Failing that, maybe trading standards?

John
23-03-2004, 16:57
My house is leasehold but I haven't paid for 10 years and neither as the previous owner for 6 years.

Is there a limit to when it can be claimed by the landowner?

Smiler
23-03-2004, 21:57
I am prettysure the law has changed and leaseholders can force landlords to sell them the freehold, and I think there is some system for cheking the price. If the grief you are getting continues you might want to check this out with your solicitor.

mojoworking
23-03-2004, 22:03
Originally posted by Foxxx
a) you can only relate if you own a leasehold house
b) it's not my problem, it's everyone's problems if they own a leasehold house and their landlord is Estate management ltd or similar company doing the same thing.
c) I am informing people so they don't get ripped off if this happens to them

Quit the sarcasm. Why bother posting if you have nothing constructive to say.

Have you been in this situation? It has nothing to do with policitics. It is to do with a company and others like it, trying to rip people off. "Tories robbing tories". a) why do you assume I am tory? b) this affects people in sheffield whom generally speaking do not vote tory.

I was trying to help other people.

I was trying to find out if anyone else has had this happen to them and if anyone on here knows how they get away with it.

Steady on love, don't get your knickers in a twist.

Your petty-bourgeois views are just as welcome here as anyone elses.

t020
23-03-2004, 22:10
Originally posted by mojoworking
Steady on love, don't get your knickers in a twist.

Your petty-bourgeois views are just as welcome here as anyone elses.


Can't really see the big problem with foxxx here at all. Your posts are usually enlightened and good to read, mojo, am I missing something between you 2 in another thread or something? So what if she does vote Tory anyway? You sound a bit jealous of the fact foxxx is a home owner. I just don't get it.

mojoworking
23-03-2004, 22:22
Originally posted by t020
Can't really see the big problem with foxxx here at all. Your posts are usually enlightened and good to read, mojo, am I missing something between you 2 in another thread or something? So what if she does vote Tory anyway? You sound a bit jealous of the fact foxxx is a home owner. I just don't get it.

There's nothing to get, really, other than a little sarcasm following a yawn-inducing thread.

I too am a home owner, so you are off the mark with the jealously assumption. Perhaps you'd care to hear all about my latest rates bill in great detail?

Thought not.

wendy
24-03-2004, 00:19
Originally posted by John
My house is leasehold but I haven't paid for 10 years and neither as the previous owner for 6 years.

Is there a limit to when it can be claimed by the landowner?

John when you bought your house why didn't your solicitor insist on proof of payment of groundrent from the previous owners. I thought that was a standard thing you had to produce, ours did when we moved two years ago, just as we insisted on proof of building regs approval on the extension on ours.

I've also recently had to give our old neighbours info as they are now moving and the groundrent was paid for a block of 3 houses on the same ground lease and was sent to one house - it was then the responsibility of that householder to collect the ground rent from the others. This was written into the deeds and was brought to our attention by our solicitor.

Sounds to me like your solicitor wasn't very good as they should have told you this at the time. Have you checked with your neighbours that this isn't the case with yours?

brocco
24-03-2004, 00:57
Originally posted by mojoworking
Your petty-bourgeois views are just as welcome here as anyone elses.

Do these condescending remarks come naturally to you or have you worked on them over the years?

Must have taken a fair amount of practice to get this arrogant.

mojoworking
24-03-2004, 01:19
Originally posted by brocco
Do these condescending remarks come naturally to you or have you worked on them over the years?

Must have taken a fair amount of practice to get this arrogant.

Not really, some people are just lucky, I guess.

I'm very sorry, I honestly thought this was a discussion forum where people are allowed, nay, encouraged to exchange robust points of view. Or am I wrong? Is it really just an outlet for friends to massage each others' egos?

Boy, is my face red!

In future, if someone posts what I consider to be a terminally boring thread with pretentious, middle class overtones, I'll just keep quiet. :confused:

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 07:12
Originally posted by mojoworking
Not really, some people are just lucky, I guess.

I'm very sorry, I honestly thought this was a discussion forum where people are allowed, nay, encouraged to exchange robust points of view. Or am I wrong? Is it really just an outlet for friends to massage each others' egos?

Boy, is my face red!

In future, if someone posts what I consider to be a terminally boring thread with pretentious, middle class overtones, I'll just keep quiet. :confused:

What planet are you from??
If you found it that boring why did you read it and why did you bother replying to it?
How is informing people about a situation that could be quite common in Sheffield pretentious? And how the hell was it related to middle class??
There are many people in sheffield who own houses that this scam might affect. Many of which are normal working class people. This has nothing to do with class.
Please please explain to me what this has to do with politics or class? :confused:
Since you can't seem to explain this in any of your meaningless responses, I suggest you do keep quiet.
Yes this forum is for exchanging robust points of view, so where is yours? I fail to see where your point is.

Tony
24-03-2004, 07:16
Originally posted by mojoworking
In future, if someone posts what I consider to be a terminally boring thread with pretentious, middle class overtones, I'll just keep quiet. :confused:
Not wanting to add fat to the fire, BUT... :) you seem to be the one with the pretentions Mojoworking. Or do you just have a chip on your shoulder? Foxxx asked a perfectly good question, and got some perfectly good answers. By all means contribute, but don't take the micky out of someone for no reason at all. :mad:

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 07:19
Originally posted by Cols
Foxxx
Don't get upset. There are people on these boards who contribute useful stuff (like your post and the post about carcraft warranties) and there are those who have nothing to contribute so just wind people up.

Keep posting .......

Col S

Don't worry, I will keep posting. Cheers :)
Thinking about it, I don't know why I bothered to reply now, kinda sinking to her/his level really. Silly me!!

Oh well, that's what you get for trying to inform people of a problem in Sheffield, on a Sheffield forum. Strange that's what I thought this forum was for!!

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 07:23
Originally posted by Tony
Foxx, if youre solicitors has advised you already you seem to need to write a letter, including "my solicitor advises me that..."

Failing that, maybe trading standards?

Estates and management were supposed to ring me back on Monday but they haven't! This was before I had spoken to my solicitor. I think I will now write a letter and outline everything my solicitor said, plus the fact that they haven't returned my call. I'll also point out that if they send me another letter of the harassment nature that they have, that I will forward them on to trading standards or watchdog. (Not sure which one is appropriate). I will suggest that they take the £4 cheque, which I have no problem paying them.

mojoworking
24-03-2004, 07:25
Originally posted by Foxxx
What planet are you from??
If you found it that boring why did you read it and why did you bother replying to it?
How is informing people about a situation that could be quite common in Sheffield pretentious? And how the hell was it related to middle class??
There are many people in sheffield who own houses that this scam might affect. Many of which are normal working class people. This has nothing to do with class.
Please please explain to me what this has to do with politics or class? :confused:
Since you can't seem to explain this in any of your meaningless responses, I suggest you do keep quiet.
Yes this forum is for exchanging robust points of view, so where is yours? I fail to see where your point is.

But that IS my point. Your thread was more than a little prosaic, let's face it, so I took the p*ss. Just as I'd expect someone to do if I'd started a thread about, say, train-spotting. That's the beginning and the end of it. No offence was meant.

Just let it go. It's not important

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 07:26
Originally posted by t020
Can't really see the big problem with foxxx here at all. Your posts are usually enlightened and good to read, mojo, am I missing something between you 2 in another thread or something? So what if she does vote Tory anyway? You sound a bit jealous of the fact foxxx is a home owner. I just don't get it.

Thanks T020.

I post in quite a few threads so maybe I have said something mojo didn't like/agree with. Obviously the way to deal with that, is in this mature way with snide remarks trying to ruin an otherwise normal thread! Oh well, hey-ho!

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 07:39
Originally posted by mojoworking
But that IS my point. Your thread was more than a little prosaic, let's face it, so I took the p*ss. Just as I'd expect someone to do if I'd started a thread about, say, train-spotting. That's the beginning and the end of it. No offence was meant.

Just let it go. It's not important

Fine, I'll let go something I didn't start. End of..

What I will say to anyone reading this thread is

The point is, sometimes posts are boring. I've seen some, and thought it doesn't interest me, so I don't post in it. Different posts have different meanings to different people. There might be one person on here who has had the same thing happen to them and I might save them paying the fine.
If everyone posted like mojo did, slagging off the post called it pretentious, middle class, tories robbing tories, petty-bourgeois views etc etc, then people would get too scared to post anything and stop visiting the forum. Taking the p**s is fine and can be funny, but being nasty isn't funny.
Life can be boring sometimes. Bills have to be paid, people get mortgages etc that is life and if I have a question that I think someone can answer I'll post it. I don't actually start threads very often.
PS. Mojo- If you do have a problem with your latest rates bill, I'd recommend sharing it with people on here, because someone may be able to help you. Some may find it boring, but hopefully someone will have an answer for you.

mojoworking
24-03-2004, 07:40
Originally posted by Tony
Not wanting to add fat to the fire, BUT... :) ....By all means contribute, but don't take the micky out of someone for no reason at all. :mad:

Do you mean like you and your buddies do to poor old t020 every day? :)

mojoworking
24-03-2004, 07:44
Originally posted by Foxxx
Fine, I'll let go something I didn't start. End of..

What I will say to anyone reading this thread is

The point is, sometimes posts are boring. I've seen some, and thought it doesn't interest me, so I don't post in it. Different posts have different meanings to different people. There might be one person on here who has had the same thing happen to them and I might save them paying the fine.
If everyone posted like mojo did, slagging off the post called it pretentious, middle class, tories robbing tories, petty-bourgeois views etc etc, then people would get too scared to post anything and stop visiting the forum.
Life can be boring sometimes. Bills have to be paid, people get mortgages etc that is life and if I have a question that I think someone can answer I'll post it. I don't actually start threads very often.
PS. Mojo- If you do have a problem with your latest rates bill, I'd recommend sharing it with people on here, because someone may be able to help you.

OK, point taken. But if everyone had taken it in the spirit it was intended then maybe it wouldn't have got out of hand.

That's not to say I wasn't out of order, mind :)

Tony
24-03-2004, 07:54
Originally posted by mojoworking
Do you mean like you and your buddies do to poor old t020 every day? :)

You've lost me now. What's it got to do with t020? It was YOU that had a go at Foxxx for no reason at all. t020 is quite capable of stirring up his own threads for himself, but I still fail to see why you had a dig at Foxxx for this helpful thread.

Tony
24-03-2004, 07:56
Foxxx, have you got the info you need from this thread? I don't want to help it decend into another slanging match - sorry.:(

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 08:02
Originally posted by Tony
Foxxx, have you got the info you need from this thread? I don't want to help it decend into another slanging match - sorry.:(

Well, it didn't quite go the way I hoped. People haven't really had a chance to post on it properly yet!! There were some interesting comments/stories from some people who have had leasehold scenarios happen to them. Just shows that there are things going on with leaseholds.

I would like to know if anyone knows the legal side to how these leasehold companies get away with fining people and printing lies in their letters to scare people. Anyone else had anything similar happen?

Was interested to hear about the info on buying the leasehold. Every now and again, I get a 'special offer' allowing me to buy my leasehold for a very overpriced cost. Limited offer only etc. Looks as though, I might be allowed to buy it at anytime anyway and for a cheaper price.

mojoworking
24-03-2004, 08:06
Originally posted by Tony
You've lost me now. What's it got to do with t020? It was YOU that had a go at Foxxx for no reason at all. t020 is quite capable of stirring up his own threads for himself, but I still fail to see why you had a dig at Foxxx for this helpful thread.

er, that was a joke. You said "By all means contribute, but don't take the micky out of someone for no reason at all".

Then I said "Do you mean like you and your buddies do to poor old t020 every day?"

Get it?

It's got nothing to do with t020, I was just commenting on the fact that you give the guy a really hard time, most of the time

Tony
24-03-2004, 08:07
It's interesting to see how much people pay for packages of ground leases - often 25 times the income! I guess that the less scrupulous will find 'alternative' ways of getting a return on their investment.

HotPhil
24-03-2004, 12:00
I find all this quite interesting - just having had a very similar letter from a company called "Leasehold Property Management". I moved in a few months back and remember the solicitor saying she'd had hassles getting the ground rent all sorted but it was OK now. Then last week I get a letter saying that I owe them £5 and £5 arrears. Being a customer-focused company they are only contactable 09:30-13:00 so I have had to fax them.

What I've told them is that I am up to date and until they can detail the "arrears" on the "invoice", £5 is all they'll get (I have posted them a £5 cheque). Does that seem the right thing to do or should I dig out all my solicitor's paperwork and/or speak to the solicitor again?

John
24-03-2004, 12:05
Originally posted by wendy
John when you bought your house why didn't your solicitor insist on proof of payment of groundrent from the previous owners.

The previous owner gave me a cheque of 6 years worth as he wasn't chased up either.

I'll rephrase what I was asking. If the responsible party did come round tomorrow to collect 10 years (+6 years from the previous owner) worth of rent can they do so by law? I mean does it say somewhere that it can only be back dated says upto a max of 5 years?

Also, what will happen if I moved house, can they chase me up in say 25 years time asking for it?

garrence
24-03-2004, 13:01
Thanks Tony, Phil and John for getting this thread back on topic!

I'm pretty confused about the whole leasehold thing. Mine is £2 a year to the Duke of Devonshire. Once somebody from up the road came around and collected it, but no-one's collected for some years. Maybe they are just paying it themselves (apparently it's often easier to just pay for the row of houses than to collect off everyone) or maybe I'm in arrears.. Mebbe I should ask the neighbours.

I saw a TV programme a few years ago about leaseholds. It showed that companies can buy the leasehold on your property, wait until you're in arrears then charge admin fees. People who didn't pay the fees were having their properties repossessed. I don't know what the exact details were or what changes in the law may have taken place since, but it was quite scary.

I hope that company hasn't bought my leasehold and is gonna try and charge some outrageous admin fee.

wibbles
24-03-2004, 13:06
Originally posted by mojoworking
There's nothing to get, really, other than a little sarcasm following a yawn-inducing thread.

I too am a home owner, so you are off the mark with the jealously assumption. Perhaps you'd care to hear all about my latest rates bill in great detail?

Thought not.

:loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy:

BrainThrust
24-03-2004, 13:28
Originally posted by wibbles
If it was so yawn inducing why bother reading it all in the first place then bother to post comment????....:loopy:
Its like watching a TV show and saying how crap it is but continuing to watch :confused:

And once again this thread is thrown off topic.

I have no experience in leases so i suppose i'm just as guilty but i think that this thread proves that having a good solicitor is one of the most important things you can do in this day and age.

Wilf

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 14:45
I rang back Estates and Management at lunchtime to tell them I would not be paying them the admin costs at the advice of my solicitor. I also told them to stop harassing me and my mortgage company. The man on the phone (which is 25p a min I might add!!!), kept saying I was breaking the law and my solicitor is wrong and doesn't know their job. He also said I wouldn't be able to sell my house until it's paid and all sorts. I quoted back to him what my solicitor had said about when I bought the house, that the solicitor will serve a notice of transfer to the landlord, and a notice of mortgage, to which E&M replied they had not ever received the notice. To which I replied, 'how come you know my name then, why was the admin fee letter addressed to me, if you didn't know I lived there?'. Anyway this argument went round and round and he kept saying by law I have to pay it, and that my solicitor has not paid the notice of transfer etc. He said E&M do not have to send you a bill, but if not paid on time you get fined. He said he would continue to phone my mortgage centre and that E&M know the law and are a 'multimillion pound business with their own solicitors'. I suggested his solicitor contact mine. He said they don't do that! In the end I said 'take me to court then'.

Anyway, obviously feeling worried that he might know something I don't, I rang my solicitor again. She told me, this is what they do, they wear you down. She advised I do not pay. If I can handle the letters and my bank ringing to say E&M have rung them again, then just sit tight. She explained that this happens all the time and there are a few of these companies that have bought up most of the leases in Sheffield. She gets this all the time. And they always use the 'your solicitor doesn't know their job' line. When you buy a house, your solicitor will serve notice of transfer to E&M with the £1.05 cost which is detailed in the deeds. They then make a note (hence have my name) and send it back to the solicitor demanding £42 admin costs. The solicitor says 'on your bike' because the deeds state £1.05. E&M will then say they have not received the notice of transfer until the £42 is paid. Which is not owed! When they send you the ground rent demand with the admin costs for late payment (its late because they didn't demand it), they tell you its because they had to do a search to find out who lived there in order to make you pay your rent. They don't need to do a search because the solicitor informed them. They say they weren't informed because the £42 wasn't paid. This just goes on and on. When you sell the house, they will refuse to sign it over bacause of the outstanding £42 and the late payemtn admin costs, but they can't legally stop you from selling at all. All they can do is demand a maximum of 6 years of ground rent, which they keep rejecting! So the solictor representing the next person buying my house, will pay the £12 and it comes out of your fees. So the last people in my house probably had to pay £12 to move.

I can't believe these companies can operate, and that's why he gets to say 'multimillion pound business' because people pay it!
My solicitor knows what she's talking about and everything is on file at the mortgage centre and in my file at the solicitors so I have nothing to worry about.

Don't be fooled anyone.

The bright side is, my solictor informs me that the government is discussing all this and laws are going to come into place to protect the homeowner with leasehold.

I've now got to put up with being harassed constantly by this company. My mortgage centre have too. They are fully aware of the situation also.
:mad:

Tony
24-03-2004, 14:51
Good on you for plugging through it! Looks like it was worth the effort!

garrence
24-03-2004, 15:24
Well done Foxxx and thanks for sharing the info. I'll be in a better position when my demand arrives :mad:

Did your solicitor charge for helping you out, or did it come from the fees you paid for the conveyancing in the first place?

Lindseyw
24-03-2004, 15:35
My house is Lease Hold and the lease is held by a small firm in Sheffield. Luckily for me it is only £10 per year and there is no point in me buying it as it has 500 years left to run.
I can't be transferred or increased during this time.
Sorry to hear the crap you've had honey.
Keep Smiling :)

HotPhil
24-03-2004, 15:36
Cool. Think I will mostly be digging out all the paperwork tonight and being well prepared for a conversation with my freeholder's management co.

Phil

wibbles
24-03-2004, 15:41
my house is leashold too and I pay £1.50 a year...kinda think whats the point but then again if they have 1000's of properties on their books then they may make some money

Norbo
24-03-2004, 15:53
Well done for persevering and sharing your experiences. Good job for bringing it to eveyone's attention who may be in a similar position. It is absolutely outrageous that these companies can get away with conning people out of money through bullying and scaremongering tactics. Lets hope they get legislated against.

My last house was leasehold and I never paid a penny of the 11 quid a year all the time I lived there as I didn't get billed. Don't think I'll be hassled for it now, hopefully. Glad my house is freehold now.

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 16:34
Originally posted by garrence
Well done Foxxx and thanks for sharing the info. I'll be in a better position when my demand arrives :mad:

Did your solicitor charge for helping you out, or did it come from the fees you paid for the conveyancing in the first place?

No, I've not paid her anything, apart from the solicitors costs when I bought the place 2 years ago. She's been really good giving me the advice on the phone. She's also going to request a copy of the ground rent due date from the bank who hold my deeds so that I can send my £2 on time each year. That way E&M can't complain that I'm overdue each year even though they won't bill me. So pretty good service all around (Taylor and Emmet).

I think this company plays on the scarmongering. i'm sure we've all had red bills in our time, and incurred admin costs from banks etc. and you pay up. Well E&M play on the tactic that by telling you that you owe money, you'll automatically pay it.

I look forward to my next telephone conversation where I'll run rings round them hopefully!

Foxxx
24-03-2004, 16:41
Originally posted by Lindseyw
My house is Lease Hold and the lease is held by a small firm in Sheffield. Luckily for me it is only £10 per year and there is no point in me buying it as it has 500 years left to run.
I can't be transferred or increased during this time.
Sorry to hear the crap you've had honey.
Keep Smiling :)

You sound Ok there. I think this is part of the problem, companies like E&M can't increase the costs either, it's £2 a year and doesn't increase. So the way they make their money is to charge all these ridiculus admin costs, or sell you the leasehold for a really high price. In some areas its worth it, but in Sheffield it doesn't usually affect the value of your house if its leasehold. Its pretty common up here, so it's not worth it. Its got in excess of 800 years left on it. But of course E&M send you info telling you how advantageous it is to buy it!!!!

HotPhil
24-03-2004, 16:44
Foxx - your solicitor wasn't Jo Deaden by any chance was she? I've just got home and got all my paperwork out (oh yes, it will be faxed to the company tomorrow) and reading through it think Jo did a proper good job. Anyone buying a house? I'd recommend her, no probs.

P

matsalleh
24-03-2004, 16:51
It might be worthwhile buying the leasehold if you can and depending on price,because I believe that a freehold house is normally worth more than a leasehold one.
I am responsible for the collection of ground rent from 3 other properties, a grand total of £7/year !(including mine). I very often just pay it myself.
I wonder would it be possible to charge these companies for doing the collections for them ?
Cheers

Foxxx
25-03-2004, 07:35
Originally posted by hotphil
Foxx - your solicitor wasn't Jo Deaden by any chance was she? I've just got home and got all my paperwork out (oh yes, it will be faxed to the company tomorrow) and reading through it think Jo did a proper good job. Anyone buying a house? I'd recommend her, no probs.

P

No, its Anne Emmerson. I'd also recommend her.

Goodluck with your faxing.:)

Foxxx
25-03-2004, 07:42
Originally posted by matsalleh
It might be worthwhile buying the leasehold if you can and depending on price,because I believe that a freehold house is normally worth more than a leasehold one.
I am responsible for the collection of ground rent from 3 other properties, a grand total of £7/year !(including mine). I very often just pay it myself.
I wonder would it be possible to charge these companies for doing the collections for them ?
Cheers

I thought it might be worth buying, but my area is pretty much all leasehold apart from the odd one here and there where they've bought it. My solicitor said it really doesn't affect the value of the house, and it's not worth it. After paying solicitors fees the leasehold would cost me about a grand.
Not to say that in other areas it could. Only because it can take a little longer to complete due to the extra paper work involved. And if it's the only one in that area, people will naturally prefer to buy a freehold.
In places like London, it's a no no, you want freehold if pos. Ground rent can be a lot more and it can effect quick sales and the value of the property.
Most of my street is leasehold and fortunately each owner is responsible for paying so neighbours don't have to pay or collect on anyones behalf. I wonder if they are with E&M also. Perhaps I should warn them.

Ravenger
25-03-2004, 09:34
A huge advantage to owning a freehold is that you don't need the lease owner's permission to extend or modify your home - apparently they can again charge you admin fees if you do this.

I remember now we had a letter from our lease holder saying that he believed we had improved our poperty without his permission he'd charge us an admin fee of something like £150 to approve them. I think he was fishing for more money, as he'd never visited us or spoken to us personally.

We ignored his letter since a) we were buying the lease from him, and b) we hadn't extended our property, though we did have a loft conversion done which didn't require planning permission. We believed it was none of his business since it didn't use up any more land or alter the profile of the house.

Now we own the freehold we're free to do what we like, within the planning and building regs of course.

Antman
25-03-2004, 12:33
Cheers Foxxx

That's a really useful thread, i've been wondering about the paying of groundrent for a while on our place, at least now if some tool sends me a demand for admin fees i'll know whats going on and who to see. Forewarned is forearmed!

robh
25-03-2004, 15:02
There's a Government body http://www.rpts.gov.uk/ who deal with leasehold problems.
There is something to be said for buying the lease if the freeholders are hostile (and the tribunal can be involved to ensure they don't overcharge). It can cost several hundred quid, mostly in legal fees, and will add only marginally to the value of the house compared with a house on a very long low rent lease.

If you have reasonable landlords and a long lease then you're fine (as long as they don't sell it on). If you have a short lease (say 30 years remaining) it's time to buy. There are restrictions on who can buy, you have to have lived there for (if I recall correctly) 7 years.

I don't believe anyone can get away with charging a fine for non-payment if they haven't submited a bill for the original debt and even then only reasonable costs - a few % above bank overdraft rate. If they incurr county court costs for chasing the bill and their case is proven in the county court then they can claim the court costs.

Do keep on the ball or they can attempt reposession, don't get bored with them and stop responding to their letters. Send your rent payment by recorded delivery so you can prove at court that you tried and keep all correspondence. Try to use letters rather than phone, that way they have to reply in writing and can't deny the outrageous statements they may make on the 'phone. Also theire postal resonses will probably cost them more, they'll use any fool to tell you lies on the phone (if challenged they can always say "he was acting beyond his brief and in contravention of our rules, he will be disciplined") but written responses are more likely to need vetting by an (expensive) solicitor.

There are other freeholder scams - some decide to arbitrarily increase the ground rent, even though the contract doesn't allow them to and people pay up to avoid the hassle of disputing it (and as you have discovered they are good at making it difficult to argue). Sometimes the freeholder is responsible for insurance and can force you to use a particular (expensive) insurer. The lease may require that you have the permission of the freeholder before making any property alterations and can charge stupid amounts for this. The definition of alterations is wider than those requiring planning permission, a sufficiently grasping freeholder may be able to apply the definition to having a new washbasin fitted.

There was a suggestion a few years back that there should be legislation to allow freeholders to increase uneconomicaly small ground rents, I think the idea was dropped but it may pop up again.

Not all freeholders are crooks. I had an unsolicited apology and refund a few years ago when mine realised they were charging me for part of a neighbour's land, it was only a few quid and I'd not noticed.

Foxxx
25-03-2004, 15:42
Some really good advice there. Thank you for posting :)

I am keeping all corrspondance like you say, I have the letter with my returned check stapled to it. Each year I will send another and if they return it, I shall keep it. I think I will also write them a letter when I send them the £4 again and outline everything that has happened and everything my solicitor has said. I'll suggest they accept my cheque since that is what I owe and I've never disputed paying it. I'll send that registered delivery like you say. It will be interesting to see if they write back in response and what they try to do!

lazyfish
08-05-2005, 10:09
We moved into our house in January and we've just had a demand from E&M for £1.63 ground rent plus £20 admin fee.

Naturally, after reading this thread, we'll only be sending them £1.63. Have also emailed RPTS and am thinking of writing to my MP as well.

Has anyone had any new developments on this issue in the year since the last post on this thread?

alchresearch
08-05-2005, 10:40
I've only just come across this thread but my lease is owned by Estates and Management, as are most properties in my area. They are the biggest bunch of crooks I've ever come across.

When I first bought my house they told me I could only use their recommended home insurers - which was suspiciously higher than everyone else. However, this insurance company was useless and never processed the application so we were uninsured for a whole year.

When it came to renew, we used someone else (and have done ever since) and E&M threatened all sorts of legal action.

We had a minor problem with the garden getting really boggy all the time. I checked the deeds thoroughly and it was clear it was E&M's responsibility to fix, but they conveniently ignored all letters and faxes.

Every so often they offer you the opportunity to buy the leasehold, I strongly recommend you do. Everyone on my street has some gripe or another with them.

Draggletail
08-05-2005, 11:21
Originally posted by garrence
I hope that company hasn't bought my leasehold and is gonna try and charge some outrageous admin fee.

We have lived in our present house for about 18 months, and have still not had a bill for ground rent. I seem to remember the solicitor said it would be paid to the university.
Lets hope they haven't sold it off to some private company. They have sold a lot of uni owned property off lately......

60s_chick
08-05-2005, 12:10
My best advice to anyone if they discover their property lease has been bought by Estates and Management - BUY THE LEASE AND BUY IT QUICK.

They buy up leaseholds from all over the country. Your original leaseholder will not tell you they have sold it and E & M will not tell you they have bought it. Very soon you could end up in arrears your payments and they could then put you in default of the leasehold agreement.

Whatever you do don't declare that you have done any renovation to your property other than general repairs and maintenance. The longer you have lived in the property the cheaper the lease will be to buy

I live in a West Yorks town where they bought up leases from all the old poor societies and friendly societies and from estates of wealthy mill owwners - they then put all the ground rents up for all the shops in the arcades and forced many out of business.

My uncle's lease is due to expire and we have been trying for many monhts to renew it but we have had no luck. It was owned by the guardians of the poor in the village where he lives. You can bet your life that E & M will have bought it and will demand an extortionate price on renewal and him being 85 years old will be too scared to do anything other than pay it

Ask yourself the question - why would a company buy up a handful of leasehold generating income of £4 per year each and then set up a massive call centre and back office to manage the leases

60s_chick
08-05-2005, 12:15
Further to my last post please see this from our local paper

Charges for consent might outweigh building costs Jun 23 2004

By The Huddersfield Daily Examiner


LONDON-based grount rent collection company Estates And Management Ltd has come under fire in Huddersfield after billing homeowners for hundreds of pounds in "administration costs". But there is light at the end of the tunnel, says JENNY PARKIN.

IF ESTATES And Management Ltd own the land your house is built on, simply putting up a shed can be risky business. If you fail to tell them of your plans, the charges you could incur getting their consent might outweigh the costs of the project itself.

And if you do notify this London-based company, you'll still have to pay a fee to get the go-ahead.

Most long leases say you need permission from the landowner for any alteration or addition.

You might think they'll never know. But there have been suggestions that officals have been touring Huddersfield looking for new extensions, conservatories and other additions - then charging the owners substantial amounts to give retrospective consent.

Estates And Management today denied anyone has been checking local homes.

But at a time when more home owners than ever before are freeing up equity to splash out on improvements, an extra bill is a worrying prospect.

Huddersfield solicitor Diana Walker says: "Recently I dealt with a family who were charged nearly £500 for adding a car port and garage, and altering their porch.

"They had overlooked the consent issue. It only came to light when they were selling."

It's often a nasty shock - especially at a time when they have all the other costs of moving to contend with.

The company has long been under fire from Huddersfield MP Barry Sheerman - and has recently pledged to treat its Huddersfield tenants better.

Kirklees Council a sold the freehold of over 12,000 privately-owned homes - once part of the Ramsden family estate - to Estates And Management Ltd in the mid-1990s.

Land is understood to have been transferred for a low price and the move freed the authority from having to collect tiny ground rents, typically £1.50 a year.

Mrs Walker, of Armitage Sykes Tullie Woodward in New North Road says: "There are a large number of leasehold properties in Huddersfield, typically for 999 years at a nominal rent.

"Estates And Management owns the freehold of houses in most areas of Huddersfield.

"As the law stands at present, ground rent is payable whether it has been demanded or not."

Newsome couple Mark Oakes and Joan Gill recently faced a £230 bill - for an unpaid ground rent of £5.61.

And the company, which owns freeholds across the country, has been using an old condition written into deeds to dictate which building insurance company people should use.

Mrs Walker says: "In many documents, some 100 years old or more, there's a condition which states homes must be insured by a company approved of by the ground landlord.

"This was written in at the time to make sure property insurance went through a reputable company.

"But Estates And Management is using this stipulation to insist home owners sign up with an insurance company of their choosing."

Occasionally, Estates And Management has been known to have arranged the buildings insurance and billed the home owner.

But a new act of Parliament, set to come into force next April, will change things.

It could be a godsend to homeowners - some of whom have been advised by their solicitors to buy out the freehold, at a cost of £500 or more, to avoid future red tape.

The Commonhold And Leasehold Reform Act 2002 will mean landowners cannot have a say in which building insurance company a householder uses, provided it is with a reputable company and notice of the details is given to the ground landlord.

It will also mean rent is not payable unless it is formally demanded - putting a stop to surprise bills like the one Mark Oakes recieved.

But Mrs Walker adds: "It won't stop the company sending out bills to people who have made home improvements.

"The key here is still to write a brief, formal letter to your ground landlord, telling them of your plans before you carry them out.

"They will charge - but not as much as they would if it was afterwards."

The company has also been blamed by local solicitors for slowing down conveyancing when it does not reply to inquiries straight away. According to Mrs Walker, Estates And Management charges a standard fee of £45 to register a new owner of a house, and £55 if it is asked to confirm whether ground rent has been paid up to date.

Mrs Walker says: "Conveyancing is moving so quickly now, especially in the current housing market, that slowness responding to our inquiries can delay the whole transaction.

"When a house sale gets delayed, people often blame the solicitors. But in these instances it's not our fault."

* Until the new Commonhold And Leasehold Reform Act comes into force next year, check your deeds and pay your ground rent, whether Estates And Management has asked for it or not. * Write a letter outlining your plans for improvements that will alter the external appearance of the house before you carry them out. Don't keep quiet and hope they won't have to be informed - the chances are they will when you move, if not before. Getting consent beforehand means you won't face any delays in obtaining it retrospectively when you sell.

* Consider buying the freehold. If a consent bill for an extension is £300 but the freehold will typically cost about £500, it may be worth doing - and could make your home more attractive to buyers when you come to sell it.

* Of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act: "Although this Act was passed in 2002, a lot of the provisions have not yet come into force and statutory guidance is awaited on how some of the act requirements should be dealt with. We are constantly in contact with the Deputy Prime Minister's office to make sure we comply."

* On consents: "We have not been touring Huddersfield checking for extensions.

"If householders are considering making improvements, such as extensions or conservatories, they should first check their lease to establish if the landlord's consent is required.

"If it is one of the properties managed by Estates And Management they should then call our consents department who will advise what action needs to be taken. Typically they will need to submit plans for review and formal consent will be granted. The direct line to call is 020 8349 5503.

* For general inquiries contact Estates And Management at Euro House, Administration Team, 131/ 133 Ballards Lane, London N3 1GR. Telephone 020 8349 1919 or 020 8349 5500, 9am to 5pm.

redrobbo
08-05-2005, 16:10
Many thanks to Foxxx for raising this issue on the forum, and to 60s_chick for such helpful information.

I too am a leaseholder, but have never received a demand for £4 p.a. - and have lived at the same address for over 15 years now. My neighbours, one of whom has lived in their house for over 30 years, have similarly never paid any leasehold fee. We have always assumed that the small amount of money involved was not worth the paperwork and effort by the leaseholder. I certainly was never given an address where to send my cheque, and my building society holds the deeds to my property - and would impose a hefty fee if I asked for a search for this information.

Reading this thread has made me aware that there appear to be certain companies who are out to make a quick buck - by charging excessive fees for so-called administration charges, unpaid fees and property extensions.

Foxxx has done a lot of people a great service by raising this issue. My thanks again.

lazyfish
09-05-2005, 09:18
Yeah, thanks Foxxx and 60s_chick. Handling this is going to be a fair bit easier because of your posts on here.

I emailed my MP (Meg Munn) about this yesterday and she mailed back four minutes later! Says she'll get back to us this week once she's got back in to her office. I'll be phoning my solicitor today as well.

If people are interested then I can post back here with the outcome of it all?

Musey
09-05-2005, 19:20
I would be very interested to hear any outcomes in these matters. I have just approached our lease landlords to see if they will sell us the lease. We have a relatively short lease in comparison to some, only 125 years left to run on it with ground rent £22 per year. My solicitor informs me the "usual" price is 16 x ground rent + legal fees for both parties.

BoroughGal
09-05-2005, 22:37
My old house had a lease on it, which had been bought up by a management company in London. When I was buying the house, my solicitor warned me about their underhand ways of obtaining money.

-Not that this info is any different from what anyone else has said before - but he told me to always ensure that I paid my lease on time, otherwise they would get heavy handed and intimidate me, with the eventual aim of offering me the lease to buy at a ridiculously over inflated price.

The company (who's name escapes me, but isn't one that's already been mentioned) ended up being 'exposed' on a full half hour programme that I've kept somewhere on video.

Let me know if you want to borrow the tape.

rubydazzler
10-05-2005, 07:12
my house was on a leasehold that was in a trust and every year we got a proper reminder and a few weeks later if we hadn't sent the money (£12 pa) someone would call and ask for it!

A few years ago the trust came to an end and we were all offered the chance to buy our leases. The cost was about £350 including the legal fees for both parties.

It seemed a good buy at the time as there were so many clauses about getting leaseholder's permission for doing things to the property and garden and there was only about 100 years left on it anyway. Also, an estate agent told me that people from out of town who aren't used to the leasehold system prefer freehold and it helps towards a speedier sale.

Reading this thread I'm now very glad I bought out the lease, as I gather the remainder were taken over by a London based management company. phew!! narrow escape :D

Foxxx
31-05-2005, 11:33
Thanks to Lazyfish for PM'ing me to bring my attention to the new posts in my old thread. And thanks for all the new contributions especially the most interesting article posted by 60s_chick. It's been comforting to know I'm not alone, even though it's not nice that others have the same worries and problems with this issue. At least I know that it's not just me that they are picking on and it seems to be a general issue.

I've been asked by a couple of people for updates on my situation.

Since posting last year, I got a few more letters threatening court action by E&M and kept getting calls from my bank as they kept getting contacted by E&M. My bank advised I get my solicitor to send them a letter to keep on file so that they could tell E&M to get lost! My solicitor sent a letter to my bank which is now kept on my mortgage file explaining that I've done nothing wrong, I've tried to pay the rent, only to have it returned and I don't owe the admin fees. The solicitors letter explained the notice of transfer situation where E&M won't accept it unless the fee is paid which was £42 but seems to have gone up to £45 now.

from the article posted by 60s_chick
"The company has also been blamed by local solicitors for slowing down conveyancing when it does not reply to inquiries straight away. According to Mrs Walker, Estates And Management charges a standard fee of £45 to register a new owner of a house, and £55 if it is asked to confirm whether ground rent has been paid up to date."

My solicitor refused to pay this fee when I bought my house because in my deeds, the fee for transfer is £1.05.
There seems to be inconsistency in whether a solicitor pays it or not. Mine opted not to as it's not in the deeds. Your solicitor doesn't necessarily tell you this as this all happens behind the scenes when you buy your house. You just get a bill. I am guessing some solictors do just pay it and add it to your bill.


Since then, I've not had anymore calls from my bank and no more threats of court from E&M. For a company that seemed adamant I owed them and threatened me with court, they seemed to go very quiet suddenly!
Anyway, funnily enough, last week I got a letter from E&M, telling me that I owe them this years groundrent, plus the outstanding £4 plus the original admin fee for late payment from my original post on here, plus a new admin charge for the letter of £20! So I 'owe' them about 300 squid now! Oh how I laughed! All I can do, is send them copies of the letters they sent me with my returned groundrent cheques on! So it's starting all over again! I send my rent, they return it saying they won't accept it until I pay the admin fees. Then they add more admin fees because I haven't paid!!!
I guess this will continue until I move house. So my debt will keep rising. They annoying thing is, they have me over a barrel, unless my solicitor can advise me differently, because if I want to build an extension etc, they will refuse it. Or offer me the lease, but they'll charge me the inflated price, plus the outstanding debt!!!

One thing I am a bit confused about in the article posted by 60s_chick is the section saying

" "As the law stands at present, ground rent is payable whether it has been demanded or not"

Newsome couple Mark Oakes and Joan Gill recently faced a £230 bill - for an unpaid ground rent of £5.61."

This is what E&M said in the letter to me, but my solicitor insists this is not true and that they have to bill you. So who is correct?? Unless it means that it is payable whether demanded or not, but you don't have to pay admin fees, you just have to pay the outstanding rent? Can anyone shed light on the actual law. I assume my solicitor must know the law as she seemed adamant that I don't have to pay the fees, just the groundrent.

I really hope that whatever happens, the law will protect us and that I have been given the correct advice by my solicitor.

Lazyfish, do let me know what Meg Munn has to say, and if she requires more emails on the matter to show it's a real problem in the area, I'd be happy to email her also.

Cyclone
31-05-2005, 11:40
isn't there a change in the law coming into force soon to mean that it's only payable if they bill you (i might have read that earlier in this thread).

Foxxx
31-05-2005, 11:46
Well that's what my solicitor told me, but she said that to me last year, I assume she would know the law. It's a bit confusing, I'm not sure when this came into law or it hasn't yet, but will in the future. In which case what about outstanding debts?

lazyfish
31-05-2005, 12:51
Our solicitor said ground rent is always paid in arrears; that's just the way it works, and there's no legal basis for any 'admin fee' such as E&M charge. He advised me to just pay the ground rent and to go back to him if E&M started getting stroppy. So we sent a cheque for just the ground rent, and they've come back and tried to bill us another admin fee. I guess I'll go back to our solicitor and see what he says now.

It was kind of an awkward time for Meg Munn, because when I emailed her Parliament was yet to reconvene after the general election. She emailed me straight back and I spoke on the phone shortly afterwards to a bloke from her constituency office. He advised me to go along with what the solicitor said and keep him posted with developments.

I would say definitely email her. This issue is bound to affect quite a few of her constituents, and I think we're all agreed that the law needs to be changed to stamp out the activities of firms like E&M. Address is munnm@parliament.uk

In fact I wonder whether those of us who are affected by this could somehow organise and take on E&M together. The more people stand up to them, the less profit they can screw out of us, and it would help a lot if there were some way we could discuss it together and reach more people. Hmmm.

lazyfish
31-05-2005, 13:02
Also - just noticed that a group of MPs put down an Early Day Motion in March as follows.


OVERCHARGING OF LEASEHOLDERS 16:3:05
Mr Peter L. Pike
Mr Gordon Prentice
Mr Andrew Dismore
Dr Desmond Turner
Mr Harry Barnes
Jim Dowd
Mr Kerry Pollard Mrs Patsy Calton Syd Rapson
Mr Keith Bradley Mr Greg Pope Mrs Ann Cryer
Mr Neil Gerrard
That this House condemns Estates & Management Ltd of Ballards Lane, London for charging an administration charge of £225 to collect an arrears of £6.30 annual ground rent; notes that other freeholders try to overcharge Burnley leaseholders with long term leases (999 years), low ground rents and minimal conditions by trying to enforce insurance conditions which do not exist in all the leasehold documents, or charging substantial retrospective fees for approving alterations or improvements made to properties; and calls upon the Government to legislate to stop these malpractices.

Foxxx
31-05-2005, 14:47
I will put together an email in the next couple of days for sure. The more of us that let our MPs know, the more likely something will be done.

Thanks for the reply re. admin fees. It seems that we have both been given the same advice by our solicitors regarding unnecessary admin fees which is good to know. I'm glad this has come to light for people because I think saddly some people will pay this fee as you would other fees you get charged for red bills etc. The wording on the E&M letters are quite scary and look official and I'm sure others will go ahead and pay it.

As for taking on E&M...bring it on! I'm up for that. Perhaps we could contact Watchdog and they'll do a special on it on TV and we can be in it! We could get Sheffield forum mentioned! I guess Watchdog would be as good as any place to start? They would have a team of solicitors that know the law and then get Nicky Campbell visiting the E&M office and demanding to speak to the manager and getting pushed away on camera!

Other than watchdog and writing to MPs any other ideas?

Strix
31-05-2005, 16:55
Compose a flyer for all of your neighbours and post it through everybodys' letterbox. Offer to e-mail it to fellow formers who have the same lease holders so they can do the same.

Perhaps it should be an invitation to a meeting and an outline of the scale and types of problem this company cause?

Foxxx
01-06-2005, 07:45
A flyer is a great idea. Are there any solicitors on this forum who could advise what wording to put on the flyer?

Strix
01-06-2005, 19:35
Perhaps you could approach your own - who seem pretty clued up about this stuff. If you invite them to your meeting, they may be prepared to come FOC if there is more business to be drummed up ;)

lemoni
04-06-2005, 13:23
My son owns a leasehold house in Sheffield too. And he didn't realise there were no reminders. Eventually his mortgage company paid up and then pursued him for the large admin/late payment fee. Estates and Management I think are the property arm of the Church of England - so the leases must date from way back when the houses were first built. He tried to pay ahead - ie because he was going to study and work abroad, and sent them a cheque for 10 years'
worth - which was promptly sent back with a note to say it was not going to be accepted. There's rarely anyone in the office - pms only and they don't answer the phone. So now I have to deal with it, having to remember to send £3.00 every March. I reckon I'm going to buy out the freehold for him because it'll be less stress all round and is better for when/if he comes to sell.

Lights2310
10-06-2005, 10:28
Glad I did a search for E&M I to received a so called second reminder for the £5 ground rent I thought this was a bit odd as I had never received a first so the earlier postings make that one clear.

Use the number below so that you don't have to call the rip of 25p per minute number.

E&M on: For general inquiries contact Estates And Management at Euro House, Administration Team, 131/ 133 Ballards Lane, London N3 1GR. Telephone 020 8349 1919 or 020 8349 5500, 9am to 5pm.

I was very annoyed at the £20 admin charge and faxed a letter of complaint to the above and received nothing eventually I called and spoke to a Faez Nain and got the fee reduced to £15 which I was going to send but in light of the earlier postings may re-think.

The one thing I would like to know is has anyone requested a quote for the freehold for the property and if so what have they quoted.

I received a figure of around £600 last year with the charges added on I'm unsure as what is an average cost (Meadowhead area)

I would like to purchase the lease so that I don't run into any problems when it comes to doing any modifications to the property but at £600 I need to be sure its worth the outlay.

Something does need to be done about there tactics!!.

Clumber
10-06-2005, 10:42
My mother used to own some Ground Rents (my dad originally bought them back in the early 60's) which I used to deal with for her and now she has passed away, I'm looking to sell them.

I contacted Mark Jenkinson's as I know they deal with auctioning these things off, and the last 4 sales they have done have averaged 25 times the annual Ground Rent, so the figures of 15 and 16 times the annual rent are somewhat outdated now. So if your annual rent is, say, £5 per year, an up to date figure would probably be in the region of £125 and you would also have to add the freeholder's legal fees to that, so £600 is about a third over the top. But at the end of the day, if you want it, you've got to pay what is asked.

(BTW, I don't charge exhorbitant admin fees - in fact I don't charge any fees other than the actual rent!!)

lazyfish
19-06-2005, 14:50
After following the advice of our solicitor to simply ignore E&M's second bill to us (in which they raised the 'admin fee' from £20 to £40 because we hadn't paid it), we received a statement from them this week saying our payment of the ground rent had been accepted and the admin fee was cancelled. Which was as unexpected as it was pleasant. I wonder if they're getting a bit alarmed that people are wising up to them.

Lights2310
21-06-2005, 08:30
Hi Lazyfish,

Thanks for the info we decided to pay the reduced fee admin charge only because I'm going to buy the lease and didnít want any technicality slowing down the process.

I know that in the long run the purchase is of little value and will probably be worth what I finish up paying (Will post when the figure comes through) but if it takes away another property from theÖ.. And I use this word very loosely ďlandlordĒ then all the better.

Plus Iím planning on some doing work outside the property and not wanting some rip off merchante giving me permission to do work (at a cost) on my own property well again the its worth every penny.

Thanks again and lets keep everyone informed.

Foxxx
01-07-2005, 12:04
Originally posted by lazyfish
After following the advice of our solicitor to simply ignore E&M's second bill to us (in which they raised the 'admin fee' from £20 to £40 because we hadn't paid it), we received a statement from them this week saying our payment of the ground rent had been accepted and the admin fee was cancelled. Which was as unexpected as it was pleasant. I wonder if they're getting a bit alarmed that people are wising up to them.

You are most lucky, I wonder whether E&M will let me off my admin fees which are at about £300 now.

By the way, did you get a reply from Meg Munn yet?

Lights2310
01-07-2005, 13:29
Hi,

I didnít get in touch with Meg Munn donít believe the political slant does much for the cause, after all its them that profit from the business..

New news the figure back for the lease £700.00 I think not!! Last year figure £600 so it looks like, as we already know ďIíll make a figure up based on absolutely nothingĒ

Iíll not bother with the work ask no permission and just cough up the £5 per year charge while Iím there.

Its not a big deal as Iíve bought in Spain and when completed will leave these shores to the likes of E&M to do, as they will.

Foxxx
05-07-2005, 07:44
Originally posted by Lights2310
Hi,

I didnít get in touch with Meg Munn donít believe the political slant does much for the cause, after all its them that profit from the business..

New news the figure back for the lease £700.00 I think not!! Last year figure £600 so it looks like, as we already know ďIíll make a figure up based on absolutely nothingĒ

Iíll not bother with the work ask no permission and just cough up the £5 per year charge while Iím there.

Its not a big deal as Iíve bought in Spain and when completed will leave these shores to the likes of E&M to do, as they will.

I was asking Lazyfish if he had heard back from Meg Munn as he sent her an email some time ago. I'm curious for some follow-up.

I don't think it's a bad thing to get her involved at all, after all, our MPs are there to help members of their constituency and can have a much bigger effect on companies like E&M rather than us 'little people'. It shouldn't be that way, but hopefully if Meg Munn does something to help she will help a lot of other people who didn't even realise they needed help because they just paid their admin fees. Unfortunately, it's actually people like you (not having a go by the way) who can't be arsed and just cough up that let's companies like E&M get away with it!

If I want to buy my lease, I'm currently stuffed because they are charging me £600 plus my outstanding debt which is nearly £300 now and will keep rising. Until something is done about my debt of admin fees, there's no way I could think about buying my lease, so bang goes my extension!

It's not enough that we individually get some advice from our solicitors and stick to our guns, we need to let as many people know about this (hence me starting the thread) and get the government to protect us from this. I'm not saying we have to hold concerts around the world, but contacting our local MPs is definately a start.

lazyfish
05-07-2005, 09:49
Originally posted by Foxxx
By the way, did you get a reply from Meg Munn yet?

The way I left it was I told the guy in her office who phoned me that I'd let him know what happened next. I need to give him a call and bring him up to date.

Also, we need to point out to MM that Early Day Motion (see my earlier post) that was tabled in March and ask her to join with the group of other MPs who are campaigning for legislation to make E&M's activities illegal.

lazyfish
05-07-2005, 09:57
Originally posted by Lights2310

I didnít get in touch with Meg Munn donít believe the political slant does much for the cause, after all its them that profit from the business..


I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Until recently companies that own leases could insist on the householder getting their buildings insurance through a firm 'approved of' by them. This gave people like E&M carte blanche to rip you off by setting up their own insurance companies and charging you the earth. They can't do this any more, because Parliament legislated to ban it. Politicians can and clearly do make a difference on local issues such as this.

aussieboy
06-07-2005, 10:33
Originally posted by lazyfish
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Until recently companies that own leases could insist on the householder getting their buildings insurance through a firm 'approved of' by them. This gave people like E&M carte blanche to rip you off by setting up their own insurance companies and charging you the earth. They can't do this any more, because Parliament legislated to ban it. Politicians can and clearly do make a difference on local issues such as this.

This is an excellent thread: especially for the "petty" bourgeoisies such as myself.

I'm looking to buy back up in Sheffield and am avoiding looking seriously at leasehold properties for all the reasons we have seen above. Having had lots of fun with our London leaseholder, I know how you can be gouged and how the property can be poorly maintained as a result of an unscrupulous leaseholder.

What that means is that leasehold properties (or those for which I cannot quickly buy the lease) have one less potential buyer at the moment (not good given the current market). Which means that owning the lease DOES add value to your property.

Good luck to everyone on the board with their lease issues!

Stronghands
23-07-2005, 14:39
My gratitude to the people who have posted sensible points regards Foxxs's first comments on Estates and Management Ltd.

Not happy with their ventures in Sheffield, London, Yorkshire etc, they have also moved into Newcastle and Sunderland. I have just been hit with a £20 "Administration Charge". E & M were recently named and shamed in the House Of Commons - yet it's still "business as usual".

I am amazed that they are still able to trade in the way they do and that it is difficult to get a definitive legal answer on the web regards withholding the payment. Foxxx's advice is the best I have got to date - thanks.

Does anybody have any other information or experiences regards E & M or perhaps recent developments?

Foxxx - has your case went quiet now, have you paid anything?

I have read articles of older people being worried to death regards the demands and E & M's manner.

Imagine someone brayed on your front door then demanded a £20 fee for doing so. Nobody would pay it. E & M are doing just that - using paper.

I hope more people come to this thread and refuse to pay the escalating pseudo charges - beyond their couple of quid ground rent.

Good luck to all suffering from E&M disease.

Strix
23-07-2005, 14:50
I don't know if this link has been provided before, but it looks like the groundrent is now only payable if demanded:

http://www.lease-advice.org/newintro.htm

Maddy
24-07-2005, 00:14
I also waned to say I have found this thread very useful.
We were informed when we bought our house that on a block of 4 £5 a year was payablke but the deeds indicated our house was no longer liable for ground rent.
Our next door neighbours had a shock when they moved as they suddenly got hit with around £300 is back rent and fees. I don'y know for def but I think they paid it as it was holding up the house sale. The other 2 houses in the block of 4 are owned by a housing association so who knows if they pay.
I find this a very confusing matter and one thats often dealt with in a haphazzard manner, people being resposnsible for collecting money off their neighbours or being expected to pay a bill that never arrives!
Anyway I feel a bit more informed on the matter now so thanks everyone. If I do get a nasty bill one day I'll have some ideas of how to start tackling it :D

Mundo
15-09-2005, 12:36
Hi all

Just resurrecting an old-ish thread to say that Estates and Management Ltd are up to their tricks again. My partner and I just received a "reminder" demanding £5 ground rent (fair enough) and a £20 admin charge (*not* fair enough). Needless to say we never received the original letter. For what it's worth, we live on Chesterfield Road.

Once I've taken legal advice I'll try to post back, I've a feeling a few searches will be run on this forum on "Estates and Management Ltd"...

Thanks to all the original posters... and if anyone wants to post an update on how they've got on with E&M, that'd be really interesting... :-D

Max

:edit: for what it's worth I have *no idea* why this post appeared under Mundo's username, it's sure-as-hell not my username...

Stronghands
17-09-2005, 15:12
Hi to all ye fellow sufferers of ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT.

Firstly, thanks to all for the great advice, facts, opinions, contact details and initiators and posters to this thread.

Note - I will mention ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT in full throughout this so it shows up on the search engines as there is so little about. I bet people are paying ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT'S ADMIN FEE all year round!

IN SHORT - DON'T PANIC, DON'T WORRY - DON'T PAY THE ADMIN FEE! DON'T BE CONCERNED BY THIS LEGALLY WORDED NONSENSE - IT IS SIMPLE TO RESOLVE. IF YOU TAKE A LITTLE TIME - WAIT PATIENTLY - CONFIDENT OF THE FACT ULTIMATELY YOU WILL NOT PAY THE ADMIN FEE IF YOU DEAL WITH THIS CORRECTLY.

Don't concern yourself with the letter, the threats, the premium rate number etc etc. Your expense will be the ground rent and any arrears - stay happy - sleep well - re

Stronghands
17-09-2005, 15:16
Here is fuller extract of the act if you are interested .

2004 No. 3096


LANDLORD AND TENANT, ENGLAND


The Landlord and Tenant (Notice of Rent) (England) Regulations 2004

Made 22nd November 2004
Laid before Parliament 30th November 2004
Coming into force 28th February 2005

The First Secretary of State, in exercise of the powers conferred by section 166 of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002[1], hereby makes the following Regulations:

Citation, commencement, application and interpretation
1. - (1) These Regulations may be cited as the Landlord and Tenant (Notice of Rent) (England) Regulations 2004 and shall come into force on 28th February 2005.

(2) These Regulations apply in relation to dwellings[2] in England only[3].

(3) In these Regulations, "the 2002 Act" means the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002.

Additional content and form of notice of rent due
2. - (1) A notice under subsection (1) of section 166 of the 2002 Act (requirement to notify long leaseholders that rent is due) shall contain (in addition to the information specified in accordance with paragraphs (a) and (b) of subsection (2) of that section and, if applicable, paragraph (c) of that subsection) -


(a) the name of the leaseholder to whom the notice is given;

(b) the period to which the rent demanded is attributable;

(c) the name of the person to whom payment is to be made, and the address for payment;

(d) the name of the landlord by whom the notice is given and, if not specified pursuant to sub-paragraph (c) above, his address; and

(e) the information provided in the notes to the form set out in the Schedule to these Regulations.


(2) A notice under subsection (1) of section 166 of the 2002 Act shall be in the form set out in the Schedule to these Regulations.



Signed by authority of the First Secretary of State


Keith Hill
Minister of State, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister

22nd November 2004





SCHEDULE
Regulation 2



FORM OF RENT DEMAND NOTICE








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EXPLANATORY NOTE

(This note is not part of the Regulations)


These Regulations relate to the form and content of notices requiring the payment of ground rent.

Regulation 2 supplements section 166(2) of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002, which requires a notice under section 166(1) of that Act, relating to the payment of ground rent, to specify the amount due, the date on which the tenant is liable to make the payment and, if different, the date on which the tenant would have been liable to make the payment in accordance with the lease. The additional requirements specified in regulation 2 include the provision of notes for both leaseholders and landlords. The content of the notes is set out in the Schedule to the Regulations, as part of the prescribed form of notice under section 166(1).

A Regulatory Impact Assessment has been prepared in connection with these Regulations. A copy may be obtained from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, Leasehold Reform Branch, Zone 2/J6 Eland House, Bressenden Place, London SW1E 5DU (Tel 020 7944 3462).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:

[1] 2002 c.15. See the definition of "prescribed" in section 166(9) and the definition of "the appropriate national authority" in section 179(1).back
[2] See section 166(9) of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 , the definition of "the 1985 Act" in section 179(2) of that Act, and section 2 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.back

[3] The powers conferred by section 166 of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 are exercisable, as respects Wales, by the National Assembly for Wales. See the definition of "prescribed" in section 166(9) and the definition of "the appropriate national authority" in section 179(1).back




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stronghands
17-09-2005, 15:17
Hi to all ye fellow sufferers of ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT. This was supposed to go first but was blocked because I had web links on.

Firstly, thanks to all for the great advice, facts, opinions, contact details and initiators and posters to this thread.

Note - I will mention ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT in full throughout this so it shows up on the search engines as there is so little about. I bet people are paying ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT'S ADMIN FEE all year round!

IN SHORT - DON'T PANIC, DON'T WORRY - DON'T PAY THE ADMIN FEE! DON'T BE CONCERNED BY THIS LEGALLY WORDED NONSENSE - IT IS SIMPLE TO RESOLVE. IF YOU TAKE A LITTLE TIME - WAIT PATIENTLY - CONFIDENT OF THE FACT ULTIMATELY YOU WILL NOT PAY THE ADMIN FEE IF YOU DEAL WITH THIS CORRECTLY.

Don't concern yourself with the letter, the threats, the premium rate number etc etc. Your expense will be the ground rent and any arrears - stay happy - sleep well - rejoice at getting one over on a bunch of cowboys who use the law to extort money from people and as normal the government allow them to get away with it.

I know this may concern some of you as this is the very reason they work in this way - they prey on the fact that most people are honest, don't want debt but do want a clear conscience. Nor do most people want a run in with the law - spoiling their credit record and so on....

ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT use legal sounding jargon and aggressive letters etc to push you into paying.

I had the same problem all for a couple of quid.

If you have just moved in to a house then you are liable for any outstanding ground rent charges and you have to pay whatever the ground rent is - your solicitor should have ensured that there were no extra liabilities with the house.

Also if you get a note saying that ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT have now taken over as your "landlords" and the arrears are £X. Check that the arrears are correct. I would not be surprised if ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT add a few years on - they will do anything for a couple of quid!

If you get a reminder with arrears you know you have not paid - then you have to. However, do not pay the ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT ADMIN FEE.

The legal bit and there is much of it on the net is basically this;

SKIP THIS BIT IF YOU WANT

Ground Rent
Most long residential leases require ground rent to be paid on a particular day whether or not the landlord demands payment. There is evidence that a number of landlords do not bother to ask for payment and then, when leaseholders forget to pay by the due date, sometimes demand excessive additional charges for collection.

The 2002 Act provides that:
a leaseholder will only be liable for any ground rent payable under his or her lease where he or she has received a written notice from the landlord in the prescribed form. The notice must specify the amount due, the date by which payment is to be made and (if different) the date on which the amount would have been payable under the terms of lease;
the notice must also contain any other information that may be prescribed by regulation;
the date payment is to be made must be at least 30 days and not more than 60 days after the day the notice is given, and must not be before the date it would normally be payable under the terms of the lease;
the landlord will be prevented from making any additional charge in respect of the rent unless:
a) they have issued a written notice; and
b) the ground rent is still unpaid after the due date.


Notice for payment of ground rent
The leaseholder is not liable to pay the ground rent unless the landlord has demanded it. The demand must be in the prescribed form and must specify:
the amount of the rent due;
the date in advance on which the leaseholder is liable to pay it, or if the demand is sent after the due date, the date on which it would have been payable under the terms of the lease.
The Notice of Demand must include a summary of the leaseholder's legal rights and obligations. The date specified for payment must be no less than 30 days but no more than 60 days after date of service of the notice. It may be sent by post to the address of the house or flat to which it relates, unless the leaseholder has previously notified the landlord of an alternative address.

TO HERE - START READING


The landlord does need to formally demand payment in the prescribed manner under section 166. The latest legislation came onto the statute books in Feb 2005 - so it's all in.

However, they are trying to get round this by sending out a "reminder" - having never sent a first demand. This then falls between two stools - did they not send it or are you denying you did - they would swear down they did.

Check the lease advice website and look under 1985 act decisions then ctrl f and do search

RPTS national help line is 0845 600 3178 and The Leaseholders' advisory service is 0207 490 9580 and is a waste of time as they will just tell you this.


As soon as the new laws were out tried to get round it by saying that they had sent out a reminder. You would not be able to prove that you had not received it - no further forward.

However, there is a section on historical tribunal decisions and ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT are not mentioned once - the reason is they will not take you to court - there letters are a flimsy front and they will not go to the expense or risk the publicity and resultant loss of "Passive-Payers" who give in at the letter.

I have already spoken to someone who just paid the admin fee (it ended up at £40). They were gutted when they found out that they had been HAD. They found out it is £50 to take to a tribunal and the charges go up and up and without seeing your deeds etc - you may actually be in breach of contract. So once again without spending more time and money you do not know exactly where you stand. So they decided to pay for "peace of mind"!!!

However, E & M have loads of complaints but no entries on the tribunals - I can only think people either pay on time (as I will via standing order) or pay the admin and bill or donít pay the admin and E & M eventually drop it.

You can get the idea of how they work by posts on this site and you know how it makes you feel - that's why you're here.

I called my local trading standards and I am afraid on this one they were useless advising me to pay it if I had missed a payment - in short they knew nothing and started to shoot from the hip. I asked them to investigate and they did call me back after the weekend - saying it was a bit of a grey area etc etc. They would commit to nothing other than signing for their pay check!

Do whatever homework you want to ensure you are confident of your rights - there is an abundance of information out there on the legals but not this scam. I am not a legal monkey and can only go off my own experience. However, I did make an informed decisions having spent a while looking into it. This forum has the most practical information I have found to date.

Do a search on the Internet (in the library if you don't have it at home).


SO TO CUT TO THE CHASE.

Don't worry and don't pay it. Here's how -

1 If you have a copy of your deeds or service agreement - check it. Now unless it has something particularly onerous it should be fairly straightforward. The crux is this they have to demand payment in a prescribed manner. Sites like this will allow more and more people to prove that ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT operate in a deceptive way as they do not send out reminders and offer a premium rate number for their worried "customers"

2 Record everything the dates, times of calls and letters and keep copies - record your conversations with them if it makes you feel better. Be polite and calm.

3 Call them on the following numbers - DO NOT CALL THE ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT ON THE PREMIUM RATE NUMBER ON THE LETTER.

For general inquiries contact Estates And Management at Euro House, Administration Team, 131/ 133 Ballards Lane, London N3 1GR. Telephone 020 8349 5503 OR 020 8349 1919 (AUTOMATED SERVICE) or 020 8349 5500, 9am to 5pm.

I wouldn't bother to leave a message - they may just delete it.

** Be polite and calm - they may just let it drop state you have received a reminder but I have not received a demand for payment in the prescribed format. Explain that you except you owe the ground rent and will forward a cheque for payment within 7 days but you will not be paying the "admin fee". Then wait and see what they say!

Expect a bit of stalling as they may try to test your resolve - at the same time I donít think they can tell which number you are calling in on as the premium rate and normal rate lines will end up at the same phone - so they may presume you have called on the premium rate number so they will put you on hold for a short while - as they pick their nose talk about Coronation Street etc and have a big contemptible smile on their face thinking they are ripping you off as you are on hold.

MINE WENT LIKE THIS - I called and spoke to Holly - I said text as at above ** - she stalled a little - put me on hold then came back with - they will let it go this time - I also asked for a standing order form and a price on buying the leasehold.

Buying the leasehold may be worth considering for some as it will get them out of your hair and there can be restrictions in it regards planning permissions, modification and extensions etc. Mine came back at 50 times the annual ground rent - personally I'd rather have let them administer my lease - making nothing. What is a couple of quid worth now and in 20 years? They will be making nothing. I'm happy to pay them for 50 years.

However, take advice (and post it here so everyone can benefit - and stop admin payments to them) to see what the best position is for you.

I SENT THE CHEQUE USING RECORDED DELIVERY.

I called a week later and confirmed that my account was clear and asked again for the Standing order form.

I received the Standing order form a week later. I have to say that at all times ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT were polite - so don't feel that you are going to get no where and have all guns blazing. They are aware of the new Regulations and use their letter as a hook - don't bite!!!

IF YOU RECEIVE AGGRESSION, THREATS OR STALLING NONSENSE.

Simply mention that you have lived in the house for X amount of years with no problems, that it is totally illogical to be avoiding settlement of such a frivolous amount, that you have an excellent credit record (even if you don't).

THEN QUOTE THIS

Under section 166 of The Common hold And Leasehold Reform Act 2002 the requirement to notify long leaseholders that rent is due) shall contain -

(a) the name of the leaseholder to whom the notice is given;

(b) the period to which the rent demanded is attributable;

(c) the name of the person to whom payment is to be made, and the address for payment;

(d) the name of the landlord by whom the notice is given and, if not specified pursuant to sub-paragraph (c) above, his address; and

(e) the information provided in the notes to the form set out in the Schedule to these Regulations.

That you will as a "goodwill gesture" forward a cheque for payment of ground rent and you require a standing order form to ensure this doesn't happen again in the future.


I would then leave it at that. Send the payment for ground rent using recorded delivery and with a covering letter stating the above.

Also mention that you now subscribe to a website which has contact details of many people who have been treated by ESTATES AND MANAGEMENT in the same despicable and exploitable way.

If they return your cheques or don't cash them etc - just record it all and send payment at the correct time each year with a payment covering the arrears of the previous years.

If this was to go to a tribunal - you would have performed as well as could be expected. They won't take you to court for the admin fee though as the tribunal knows the score.

Good luck to all and spread this message as much as you can. Tell your neighbours, work colleagues, friend and a family etc - it's better than talking about Coronation Street anyway!!!

PIXIETRIXIE
28-09-2005, 15:07
Thankyou for your warning.
i bought a leasehold house five years ago and never have had any problems until recentlty when the lease was sold to estates and management.
they sent me the ground rent bill for my house and several others on the estate.
rang them and told them we only owned the one property which seems to have sorted it out for us ,but don,t know how the others have faired.
they have offered to sell us the lease at about three times the original cost.
we are planning to have an extension and you have to inform the leasehold company, so after reading your post I will expect problems.
thanks again for your warning.

Caryh
08-10-2005, 19:26
Since having the same problem as most other people with estates and management,I have now set a standing order up for our ground rent. It was set up using estates and managements form, and was correctly taken on September the 30th, but the money was recredited to my account on the 5th of October. It would appear that they dont want our money, and we'll seee if they end a demand for payment, complete with the admin fee.


I'll let you know what happens.


Regards

Cary

Stronghands
08-10-2005, 22:16
Hi Cary

They never fail to amaze.

I suggest you keep your bank statements and you could even get a copy of the Standing Orders currently set up with your account - demonstrating that the SO's were in force at the time and afterwards. This should be free - just ask for a print out. I would also ask for a letter stating you did not recall the money provided you can get something after explaining why you need it for free.

Under the Standing order and Direct debit rules - if you say somebody has incorrectly received money from your account via SO or DD the bank has to refund you - but the bank normally look into this.

I am wondering if they are going to try something on - regards the bank took the money back.

You could/should contact Estates and Management and ask them why they have returned your payment - it may be a genuine administrative error.

I simply say all this because I look forward to the day when Estates and Management and their ilk are only able to collect their ground rent fees - rendering their business useless. As I said - a couple of quid per year in a few years time after admin costs is not a viable business.

Good luck with it. They may try it on but they wouldn't stand a chance in court. Also with more feedback from totally unconnected people all stating the same scams and treatment - I hope their demise is very soon.

boltonpete
08-10-2005, 23:10
Great information here, Just to let you know, estates and management are still going strong and have popped up here in Bolton.

Approx 12 months ago i received a letter from them demanding ground rent, I sent a polite letter asking them to prove they had the right to demand the money (as the previous freeholder had not notified me of any change of ownership) and once recieved I would happily pay the amount requested. about six weeks later I received a letter from my old freeholder stating he had sold the freehold to a company owned by estates and management (they have a lot of names!), I imediately sent a cheque off for the ground rent. a week later this was returned as they insisted i now owed them a late payment fee of £20.00, despite them not responding to my previous letter! anyway, have refused to pay it, every six months i send a cheque for the amount of ground rent owed and they return it a week later, what fun! the so called total outstanding continues to rise!

They have also offered me the freehold for £740 despite the ground rent being £2.94 every six months!

a friend of mine mentioned that the fact that they are refusing payment, eg sending cheques back can have a legal implication here but i'm not clear if that right or not, anyone else aware???

Andy
09-10-2005, 01:08
Originally posted by Stronghands
Under the Standing order and Direct debit rules - if you say somebody has incorrectly received money from your account via SO or DD the bank has to refund you - but the bank normally look into this.


I must correct a small error here - your statment is true only for Direct Debits. Standing Orders are controlled by the account holder, and therefore the bank are only liable if they have made an error. Standing orders are not covered by the DD Guarantee. :thumbsup:

Stronghands
09-10-2005, 16:02
Thanks Andy - I stand corrected.

Do you know what consequences the returned cheques have in boltonpete's case or the problem caryh is having?

Just in case you have knowledge of the banking system.

Thanks

Caryh
27-11-2005, 19:51
Sorry its been so long before i replied about my situation.

Estates and management were fine about the money being returned by the bank, and said it was OK for us to send a cheque for the ground rent, no problems at all!


It turns out the bank ( Alliance and Leicester ) had misread the sortcode and put in on their system wrong.

The most amazing thing was no mention of late fees or anything, maybe they are finally realising being threatening isnt the best way to get people to pay.


:clap:

chill
27-11-2005, 20:33
Interesting thread. I've got a leasehold property with Estates & Management Limited but fortunately when I bought the house my excellent solicitor talked me through all the scams such companies try and pull off and advised me how to avoid them. As it happens, the company has promptly sent me a demand for the £1.50 rent, and I've promptly paid, so there's been no problems.
It is frustrating though, the list of things prohibited or requiring permission is pretty long.

Lights2310
30-01-2006, 09:00
Hi,

I took the advice of an earlier posting and contacted E&M so that I could set up a standing order, which went fine.

Then on Friday I received a letter from E&M detailing the £5 per year ground rent fee and on the bottom a freehold offer if £700 plus £5. I thought this a little odd, as I had to request the cost in the past.

There was another section to the letter titled Leasehold Questionnaire. On the questionnaire there are a load of question around correct ownership details, what the property is, is the property being rented out, can we contact you, are you paying ground rent for more than one property finishing with Administrative charges Ė your rights and obligations.

The one that concerns me is:

Have you or any previous owners made any alterations to the property within the last 12 years? YES/NO the majority of lease/conveyances stipulate that you should gain the consent of the Landlord before any alterations may be made to your property, this includes the installation of satellite dishes and windows. Should any alterations be made to the property without consent you will be in breach of your lease/conveyance, which could result in the forfeiture of your lease. Consent is available retrospectively. Please list below alterations that you, or previous owners, have made to this property.

What I would like to know is has anyone else received a similar letter and their thoughts. And if consent has to be granted for the likes of windows and satellite dishes were does it end.

I have no idea what the previous owner altered in there time at my house and in the last 3 years when I moved in all the alterations that I have made have been in the house not outside.

Any help would be appreciated.

Pipine
30-01-2006, 21:05
I thought the only things you had to tell the leaseholder about were things that altered the footprint of the building - like a conservatory or extention??

Don't they own the land and you own the building or have I misunderstood the whole thing?

I have a leasehold problem with my house - I haven't had any demands for ground rent payment since I moved in 2 years ago and I've written to the address on my lease and had no reply. I refuse to send a cheque to an address that I can't get a response from.. My ground rent is supposed to be £12 every six months so I'm well behind on it but if I don't know who to pay exactly how can I do anything? I thought they had to send out requests for payment by law now?

I'm keeping all my correspondance and hoping they reply soon.

Lights2310
31-01-2006, 08:16
Hi Anne23,

I also thought that the only thing I would need to seek permission from the landlord would be if I were to build a conservatory or some other extension on the land.

According to my letter this is not the case, I am thinking of erecting a wrought iron fence around my property but the letter implies that I need authorisation from E&M.

What about a shed! Like I said before were does it end. I donít have a list of Doís and Doníts.

There is some legal jargon on the foot of the letter that may help you, it states:

Notes For Landlords.

1.If you send this notice by post, address it to the leaseholder at the dwelling in respect of which the payment is due, unless he has notified you in writing of a different address in England and Wales which he wishes to be given notice under section 166 of the commonhold and leasehold reform act2002.
2.This date must not be either less than 30 days or more than 60 days after the day on which the notice given or before that on which the leaseholder would be liable to make the payment in accordance with the lease.
3.Include this statement only if the date for payment is the same as the date determined in accordance with the lease.

WTAW
31-01-2006, 21:59
Any one wanting to know who the owner of the land their property stands on could check with the Land Registry. www.landreg.gov.uk. If the Land is registered it will show on a search. On the home page there is a section called land registry on line all you need to do is enter your post code and it will bring all the entries it has. Your property will show as a leasehold and the land (if registered) will show as freehold. You can then purchase a copy of the entry in the Land Registry for £2.00. This will then tell who the owner is. You could then contact the owner direct if you are having problems with a management company.

sassy_1
04-02-2006, 21:33
Hi Everyone

In response to Lights2310, we have received the 'new style rent demand' with the questionnaire. How are you supposed the know what the previous owners have done to the property, and if they did do something, are we now responsible for it? Our ground rent is £30 p.a. and they are asking for £1700 to buy the lease, (including solicitors fees) supposed to be a limited offer but it's been on the last 3 requests!! Luckily we haven't had any problems with E&M but I'm starting to worry now. Please keep posting your updates

Pipine
04-02-2006, 22:44
I did the Land Registry search and my freehold was sold on to another Estate management company in hunters bar just after I bought my house.. nice of them to tell me!!!

So now I have all the same letters to write to the address I got off the land registry documents... I left them a voicemail message but have had no reply.

Why does no-one want my ground rent??

Musey
05-02-2006, 08:59
My lease was sold to a company in Hunters Bar without my being notified. I totally forgot that I hadn't received the usual invoice from my previous ground landlords and did not pay 1 year. I did not get an invoice from the new landlords until I owed 2 years they helpfully smacked on a few extra charges not too much though (about £20) and after speaking to my solicitor she advised just paying it so I did. Buggars could of at least told me they'd bought my lease!!!

I'm tempted to ask what they would want for my lease as it only has about 120 years left on it.

sassy_1
16-06-2006, 17:32
I wondered when it was going to happen to me, well it finally has!! Estates and Management haven't sent me my usual 6 month demand for ground rent. This morning I received an arrears letter, but it seems they may be coming to their senses and haven't slapped on any charges. If I pay within 14 days there will be no extra charge.
I phoned to tell them I hadn't received my bill and got some moron on the other end who just grunted but I suppose the phone operators are sick of hearing this. Well, I've sent my cheque, whats betting the next step is they claim they haven't received it!!!!

maggie389
16-06-2006, 17:53
I thought the only things you had to tell the leaseholder about were things that altered the footprint of the building - like a conservatory or extention??

Don't they own the land and you own the building or have I misunderstood the whole thing?

I have a leasehold problem with my house - I haven't had any demands for ground rent payment since I moved in 2 years ago and I've written to the address on my lease and had no reply. I refuse to send a cheque to an address that I can't get a response from.. My ground rent is supposed to be £12 every six months so I'm well behind on it but if I don't know who to pay exactly how can I do anything? I thought they had to send out requests for payment by law now?

I'm keeping all my correspondance and hoping they reply soon.

we bought a flat last year an ex council , and we only own the inside of the building they own the outside as we are leasehold

vision
16-06-2006, 21:21
Any one wanting to know who the owner of the land their property stands on could check with the Land Registry. www.landreg.gov.uk. If the Land is registered it will show on a search. On the home page there is a section called land registry on line all you need to do is enter your post code and it will bring all the entries it has. Your property will show as a leasehold and the land (if registered) will show as freehold. You can then purchase a copy of the entry in the Land Registry for £2.00. This will then tell who the owner is. You could then contact the owner direct if you are having problems with a management company.

Am I doing something wrong?
I followed the instructions but it only told me that I am the owner. It didn't mention who owned the lease.
Our previous leaseholder died and no-one has contacted me for over 2 years.

viper123
31-08-2006, 12:07
hi know your problem well, have been through it. you shouldnt pay it, its a con that many of the london leaseholders are doing.
if you have been in the house for over 2 years you have the leagal right to purchace the lease. if your rent is £2.00 per year it will not cost you the 200 that they say you owe. if you want to e mail me i will go through it with you and help you sort it.

viper123
31-08-2006, 14:24
hi again. There are laws to protect against these landlords. To those who have maild me i am sorry but i do not have 10 entrys yet so it will not allow me to contact you. if you want to mail me your phone number i will give you a ring. breafly what you need to do is. ask all the householder near you if they have had problems. Ask them if they are interested in purchacing the leasehold(we all should for many reasons). get a few of you together the more the better. write to your landlord and ask that he sell you the lease under the 2 year law. he probebly wont reply. then you go to a solicitor and get him to handle it for you. A rule of thumb is 20 - 30 times your ground rent plus costs of £250.00 ish so if your rent is £2.00 per year it would be £60.00 plus the fees. He has to sell to you at a reasonable cost or your solicitor will take him to tribunal and they will set the price. yourlandlord will not want to go to tribunal as he has to pay all his own costs. The good thing if there are 10 of you you will pay 1/10th of the cost each put he will have 10 x cost if you know what i mean. if anyone needs free help please mail me with your phone number and i will contact you. No i am not a leagal chap but i have just purchaced the leasehold for all 28 households on our estate and have done all the corispondance for everyone. WARNING TO ALL BUY YOUR LEASEHOLD NOW AS THE PRICE WILL INCREASE THE LONGER YOU LEAVE IT, AND YES YOUR LANDLORD CAN TAKE YOUR LAND AND HOUSE AT THE END OF THE LEASE. they dont buy them for the £2.00 per year that they get of you.
also be awair that a house with less than 70 years lease is not sailable in that no lender will give a morgage on any house with less than the 70 years.
regards
Phil

banesmabes
31-08-2006, 14:33
What's the position with leasehold flats/maisonettes? Would you advise to buy the leasehold for these properties? What about if you share the building with non-owners?

viper123
31-08-2006, 14:48
hi same rule, Get together and purchace your lease,I you need any help please email me.

*Banjo*
10-09-2006, 00:19
not sure what's going on here but as far as i am aware, you have the right to buy the freehold - for a fair price - when you have paid the lease hold for 5 years. as i work for a bank, when we get an invoice for non payment of ground rent, we let the account holder know and if they dispute then we give them more time to prove their argument

viper123
11-09-2006, 07:17
The right to buy is after 2 years not 5

Strix
06-11-2006, 22:28
I'm looking forward to letting you all know how our merry dance ends :mad:

The council auctioned off our lease, and the company who bought it are really trying it on over the purchase price :rant:

looks like we're going to the land tribunal with this one :(

Ms Macbeth
07-11-2006, 06:49
The right to buy is after 2 years not 5
Are you sure? I know the Right to Buy council houses is after 2 years of being a tenant, but this is about owner occupiers of non-council properties buying their leases?

viper123
07-11-2006, 13:17
hi all few facts for you.
You have the right to buy after 2 years ownership regardless of who has the lease.
you also have the right to a tribunal. if your solicter is on form it shouldnt come to this, the calculation of a lease value is pritty streight forward. Any landlord would be silly to go to tribunal if the price you are offering is a true valuation.
I have just been through all this for 27 houses on our estate, unfortunatly i have become an expert on leasehold (worst luck).
It often happens that an offer is made to a landlord is regected and then in tribunal he gets less than the offer pluss the costs.

Very ball park but you should be looking at 20 times the ground rent and £300.00 ish in fees.

Get together with others if you can. it halves the costs and gives you buying power. your landlord dont want 20 times the cost of tribunal.

viper123
07-11-2006, 13:26
Are you sure? I know the Right to Buy council houses is after 2 years of being a tenant, but this is about owner occupiers of non-council properties buying their leases?
Hi yes i am sure. 2 years is the law. (FACT)

Ms Macbeth
07-11-2006, 16:11
Hi yes i am sure. 2 years is the law. (FACT)
Thanks for that, may try to buy ours next year (not lived here for 2 years yet).

Strix
10-11-2006, 09:23
hi all few facts for you.
You have the right to buy after 2 years ownership regardless of who has the lease.
you also have the right to a tribunal. if your solicter is on form it shouldnt come to this, the calculation of a lease value is pritty streight forward. Any landlord would be silly to go to tribunal if the price you are offering is a true valuation.
I have just been through all this for 27 houses on our estate, unfortunatly i have become an expert on leasehold (worst luck).
It often happens that an offer is made to a landlord is regected and then in tribunal he gets less than the offer pluss the costs.

Very ball park but you should be looking at 20 times the ground rent and £300.00 ish in fees.

Get together with others if you can. it halves the costs and gives you buying power. your landlord dont want 20 times the cost of tribunal.
I was under the impression you as the 'tennant' have to pay the landlord's legal costs, or is that only if you take the easy route and it doesn't go to tribunal?

viper123
10-11-2006, 11:25
I was under the impression you as the 'tennant' have to pay the landlord's legal costs, or is that only if you take the easy route and it doesn't go to tribunal?
sorry if i didnt make it clear if, you are asking to buy yes you will pay his fees as well but the tribunal set a fair amount.

only time he will pay his own is if he offers it for sale, but even then he will put it on the price.

hazel
21-12-2006, 18:24
Thanks for all the info. I have found it very useful as I am in dispute with the management firm that has taken over the admin of our flats. Costs have risen from £207 last yr to £552 this yr, since they took over at the beginning of the year'

hazel

Agent_smith
02-02-2007, 23:11
This forum is fantasic for information!

I so far have had no problems during my 6 years in my present location with Estates & Management. However another lease management company is causing problems for other people in my home town of Leigh and this is going to be shown in a program on the BBC at miday this coming Sunday.

I therefore thought about buying the lease from Estates and Management and wondered if any one else on here had any experience of buying a lease from this particular company?.

If you have? could you please let me know your experience of dealing with this company when buying your lease.

Thanks ahead.

Dave

Alastair
15-08-2007, 17:15
Interesting thread.

I just got a threatening demand for £277 in inflated management charges for overdue ground rent of £6 a year (for 6 years?) from Property Debt Collection Limited on behalf of the company that owns my freehold (Freehold Estates Limited).

They say they may inform my mortgage lender and take me to County Court if I don't pay. Should I be worried?

Does anyone else have experience of these companies?

lemoni
18-08-2007, 13:06
Estates and Management never send out reminders for our measly 3 quid a year. You don't have to pay 'em if they don't send a demand. Unfortunately E and M contacted our building soc and they payed up!!!

Alastair
18-08-2007, 14:08
Estates and Management never send out reminders for our measly 3 quid a year. You don't have to pay 'em if they don't send a demand. Unfortunately E and M contacted our building soc and they payed up!!!

Well they are going to find it hard to contact my mortgage lender, I don't have one.

viper123
21-08-2007, 15:52
not true it is your resp-to pay it and not his to collect it. acording to the law anyway but the late charges are bull. unless there is a provision within your lease that you have signed that allows him to make these high charges. the law says reasonable charges, in a court he would be awarded intrest on the £170.00 and the cost of a stamp and letter about £10.00.
hope this helps. if you need to talk to me please pm me and i will let you have my number.

Glennis
24-08-2007, 11:12
Don't worry, I will keep posting. Cheers :)
Thinking about it, I don't know why I bothered to reply now, kinda sinking to her/his level really. Silly me!!

Oh well, that's what you get for trying to inform people of a problem in Sheffield, on a Sheffield forum. Strange that's what I thought this forum was for!!

I would have thought people would be interested to hear of this ... its sounds like a scam good and proper. Good on you.

vision
24-08-2007, 20:31
[QUOTE=viper123;2561529]not true it is your resp-to pay it and not his to collect it. acording to the law QUOTE]

I understood that a demand has to be sent annually for ground rent and until this is received you don't have to pay it.

Alastair
31-08-2007, 14:07
not true it is your resp-to pay it and not his to collect it. acording to the law anyway but the late charges are bull. unless there is a provision within your lease that you have signed that allows him to make these high charges. the law says reasonable charges, in a court he would be awarded intrest on the £170.00 and the cost of a stamp and letter about £10.00.
hope this helps. if you need to talk to me please pm me and i will let you have my number.

Thanks for all your advice :thumbsup:

I have taken on the solicitor you recommended (who really seems to know his stuff). He knew the company that issued the threatening letter well and has had dealings with them before. It seems I am legally only liable for six years back ground rent and their "reasonable costs", maybe a few pounds for each of the letters they have sent me.

tarantino
01-09-2007, 23:29
we moved into our house last october and its leasehold but i havent got a clue who owns the leasehold and the last owner said no-one ever asked him for money and the person he bought it off had never had any money asked of them either so i dont know how much i am meant to be paying or to who! i hope someone doesnt come out of woodwork and claim i owe them loads of money

oggi47
19-09-2007, 21:57
How did you go on? We now have the same problem.

cmpaterson
03-10-2007, 20:49
Here goes...

We bought a house on the Willows estate in Firth Park in Feb 07. The lease documents we received during the conveyance said our lease was owned by Barratt. Out of the blue, we received a 'reminder' from Estates and Management Limited to pay £80. According to Barratt they bought the lease from them in December '06. We had NO CORRESPONDENCE WHATSOEVER from either party prior to this letter. So far so typical.

The 'Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002' Chapter 15, 166 'Requirement to notify long leaseholders that rent is due' states that E&M Ltd legally have to send us a letter of notification in a prescribed format -including the amount of rent we owe and when it is due. Their reminder for £80 was definitely not in the prescribed format, and presumably not valid. We know our rent is £90 per annum and that the previous owner paid up until end of Jan '07. Also, the rent won't increase until 2027.

A phone call to them proved fruitless; they were vague about the period covered by the £80 charge and despite assuring me there were no hidden admin charges I was still worried. They told me to send them a cheque for the £80 asap.

Fearing we were about to be stung for some 'administrative charges' concealed in their unexplained figure of £80, we replied with a letter quoting the 'Requirement to notify long leaseholders that rent is due', ie that they had to issue us with the official notification or we don't have to pay them a penny. To cover ourselves, we also included a cheque for the annual ground rent of £90 and asked to set up a standing order to avoid future complications.

Fingers crossed they will back off and accept the annual payment of £90. From what I've read on these forums they were almost certainly trying it on.

As if this wasn't enough, they want £250 to allow us to add a conservatory!! (What is the legal basis for this charge?!)

One more thing that REALLY bugged me - the reminder letter was dated 24th sept but only arrived 6 days later, on sat 30th! It said we had 7 days to pay (or presumably face late payment charges). Being a weekend there was no way we could have paid in time!! :(

To sum up I just want to know if any one has had a similar experience with Estates and Management Limited recently and any advice you can offer?

outerlimits
04-10-2007, 18:02
"As if this wasn't enough, they want £250 to allow us to add a conservatory!! (What is the legal basis for this charge?!) "

Hi,
this is the for the "licence to alter" your lease- basically a legal document which will be stored with your lease to include details of the conservatory. The fee is around the correct standard amount for a solicitor to draw the document up etc

cmpaterson
04-10-2007, 20:33
Cheers Chris,

Appreciate the insight. Has laid some worries to rest!

Chris.

oggi47
05-10-2007, 06:48
Anybody tell me how much it would cost to go to a leasehold valuation tribunal, if you are unhappy with the price you have beeb asked to buy your freehold? How does it work and how long does it take?

Fitz
05-10-2007, 07:29
Here goes...

We bought a house on the Willows estate in Firth Park in Feb 07. The lease documents we received during the conveyance said our lease was owned by Barratt. Out of the blue, we received a 'reminder' from Estates and Management Limited to pay £80. According to Barratt they bought the lease from them in December '06. We had NO CORRESPONDENCE WHATSOEVER from either party prior to this letter. So far so typical.

The 'Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002' Chapter 15, 166 'Requirement to notify long leaseholders that rent is due' states that E&M Ltd legally have to send us a letter of notification in a prescribed format -including the amount of rent we owe and when it is due. Their reminder for £80 was definitely not in the prescribed format, and presumably not valid. We know our rent is £90 per annum and that the previous owner paid up until end of Jan '07. Also, the rent won't increase until 2027.

A phone call to them proved fruitless; they were vague about the period covered by the £80 charge and despite assuring me there were no hidden admin charges I was still worried. They told me to send them a cheque for the £80 asap.

Fearing we were about to be stung for some 'administrative charges' concealed in their unexplained figure of £80, we replied with a letter quoting the 'Requirement to notify long leaseholders that rent is due', ie that they had to issue us with the official notification or we don't have to pay them a penny. To cover ourselves, we also included a cheque for the annual ground rent of £90 and asked to set up a standing order to avoid future complications.

Fingers crossed they will back off and accept the annual payment of £90. From what I've read on these forums they were almost certainly trying it on.

As if this wasn't enough, they want £250 to allow us to add a conservatory!! (What is the legal basis for this charge?!)

One more thing that REALLY bugged me - the reminder letter was dated 24th sept but only arrived 6 days later, on sat 30th! It said we had 7 days to pay (or presumably face late payment charges). Being a weekend there was no way we could have paid in time!! :(

To sum up I just want to know if any one has had a similar experience with Estates and Management Limited recently and any advice you can offer?

Our lease is with Estates & Management, touch wood we haven't had a problem so far (4 years). We had quite a large conservatory put on our house last year. I contacted E&M and asked if I needed to do anything as far as the lease goes. All they asked was if I needed planning permission for it, which I didn't, and had a letter from the council to prove it, all they wanted was a copy of the letter and didn't charge me a thing.
As for billing, I receive a bill twice a year with no problem. It also offers me the freehold if I want to buy it for £1700, our ground rent is £30 a year by the way, I usually phone them to pay over the phone but this time I've paid through their web site. www.e-m.uk.com Hope this helps

oggi47
05-10-2007, 14:47
can i ask how much is your house worth and what length of lease do you have left?
The council just sold our lease to a London company who has asked for £3500 to buy!

Loops
06-10-2007, 13:17
LEASE - Leasehold Advisory Service are brilliant if you need any advice about any aspect of leases, charges etc, their website is:-

http://www.lease-advice.org/

Fitz
07-10-2007, 19:40
can i ask how much is your house worth and what length of lease do you have left?
The council just sold our lease to a London company who has asked for £3500 to buy!

Our house is a 3 bedroom detached with a large back garden. We had it valued last year at £240,000. Off the top of my head we have around 200 years left on the lease so at the moment not interested in buying it, unless it increases in price dramatically. The correct price for freehold is £1730 (just checked the letter) which includes their admin fees and land registry fee of £40. It also says that it usually takes between 2 to 3 months to complete. Hope this helps.

oggi47
08-10-2007, 17:46
Our house is a 3 bedroom detached with a large back garden. We had it valued last year at £240,000. Off the top of my head we have around 200 years left on the lease so at the moment not interested in buying it, unless it increases in price dramatically. The correct price for freehold is £1730 (just checked the letter) which includes their admin fees and land registry fee of £40. It also says that it usually takes between 2 to 3 months to complete. Hope this helps.
thanks Fitz. Sounds good. Ours is a 3 bed semi about £160,000 in value. Looks like you got a good deal.

topflat29
09-11-2007, 21:01
The price of the freehold ( for a leasehold house in sheffield having ground rent 5 pds and 800 year lease) was recently determined by the Residential Property Tribunal Service ( rpts.gov.uk ) to be 60 pounds. ( 12 times annual ground rent ).

Suffragette1
13-11-2007, 14:43
Does owning the freehold actually add value to a property though?

topflat29
13-11-2007, 18:11
In most cases it should help to improve the capital value of the property as buyers prefer to have freehold ( i.e own the property ) compared to leasehold (i.e another company owns the property). You may get 1 or 2 thousand pounds more in a sale and probably selling is quicker which mean saving on mortgage interest payment. No registration charges by landlord company in a sale of the property.

Other benefit is that you can make many mods ( e.g extension etc )to the house without having to get landlord's consent and pay their licence fee.

minkey
15-11-2007, 17:48
My lease is with Estates and Management Ltd and I had a few problems with them when I first moved in. I got a few letters demanding about £100 to put my name on the lease (which should have been done when I bought it by the Solicitors) which were quite threatening (the usual pay or you'll be in court type thing). Anyway I got in touch with my solicitor who had done the house sale and he basically told me to ignore them. He summed E&M Ltd up as a bunch of ruthless b*****ds who send out these letters just to scare people, and inevitably some people do pay up (unnecessarily).

Anyway...a few years passed with no problems paying a whopping £6 per year for the four houses in our terrace. Then some bright spark at E&M Ltd decided it'd be a great idea to break this down and send bill to each of the four houses seperately asking for £1.50 per year. Their great ideas department then got on a bit of a roll and decided to break that fee down into six monthly payments of 75p to each house.

Now call me daft, but originally it cost them 30p postage and a bit of time/money to send out a single invoice probably leaving them with circa £5 profit a year. Now they have to send four letter twice a year, which must be costing them more than the £6 a year they are getting back....For some reason I always take great pleasure in posting them a cheque for 75p - although not as much pleasure as I got from sending them a cheque for the 2p they recently invoiced me for :loopy:

topflat29
15-11-2007, 20:20
Your posting does not seem to be complete.

Is "Estates and Managment Ltd " both freeholder and managing agent and have an address at Euro House in London ?

What does it show on the ground rent demand ?

Do your neighbours also get quarterly demands from E&M ?

topflat29
23-11-2007, 12:12
A petition has been submitted to the government's e-petition website seeking support for the abolition of leaseholds.

If you are a leaseholder and have suffer abuse from Freehold Ground Rent Companies or from Managing Agents such as "Estates and Management" or "Simarc Property Managment" - then support this petition.

All leasehold contracts have a freehold reversion clause which returns the property to the landlord and this is an UNFAIR contract by todays standards.

Do sign up to it,

(Additional information is at website - www.carl.org.uk)


http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/UnfairLeasehold/


It costs NOTHING and ask your friends and relatives to sign as well.

topflat29
02-12-2007, 19:42
If anyone has paid too much for "notice of transfer or assignment" after purchase of a leasehold property, then
you may be interested in a decision by the LVT involving Somarc which is well known for making extortionate charges for minor admin duties..

http://www.lease-advice.org/decisions/other/pdf/2675_Dir/2675_Page1.htm

Simarc was charging 141 pds but the LVT decided the charge should the amount shown in the lease at 6pds + VAT.

carpetviper
19-02-2008, 11:29
This is the reason I refused to buy a leasehold property they can work out more hassle than they are worth.

A.C.Builders
19-02-2008, 12:06
Wow. That is very sharkish and unprofessional behaviour.

Some Leashold estate owners are bullies and believe that they can intimidate 'tennants' into paying these exhorbitant fees.

I agree, Leasehold serves NO PURPOSE and should be abolished