De La Salle College [Archive]

valleyhill

20-09-2007, 15:09

I was passed the address for this site - -
de-lasalle.freeserve
I don't have fond memories myself - - read it - - specially the "Memories" section.
I was there in the 50's - - can vividly remember a lot of the people mentioned Christian Brothers ? ? more like the Talibans.

This has given me a chance to apologise for the disappearance of the above De La Salle College (Sheffield) ex pupils website that I created and updated.

A real shame because there were almost 400 ex DLSC pupils registered.

Unfortunately because it was hosted by an ISP that required dialling in every so often to keep it active this led to me losing all the info and I hadn't taken regular back-ups.

Basically Freeserve were eventually taken over by Orange who deleted the website because I hadn't dialled in for a few months (I had other stuff to deal with that took my mind of this site).

I do have a very old back-up though which still has over 200 pupils on I think plus the interesting 'Memories' section so I may get that back online one day. If so I'll post in here.

squiddy82

22-03-2008, 13:27

There is a new DLS Old Boys site at delasallesheffield.co.uk

timtop

22-07-2008, 13:50

Hi Valleyhill - wondered if you still had copes of the DLS College photos I found on your site some while ago but seem to have disappeared? As an ex-pupil (1959-65), the 1961 picture (taken on the football pitch) has me and some wonderful colleagues from 3N (or was it U4 by then...). Anyway, would welcome another copy, if possible. Many thanks.

Dexman

22-07-2008, 21:42

Hi I`m new today (site was recommended to me by Bushbaby). I attended De La Salle between 1967-72 and I have to say I hated it. I made some great friends who sadly I haven`t seen since I left in `72 but I really don`t have one good memory about the school itself.The only thing I enjoyed was playing for the school football team every Saturday at Beauchiff for 3 years until I had an altercation with a certain Sports master . As a matter of principle I wouldn`t play any more sports for the school until I left 2 years later.

maggi

22-07-2008, 22:35

This has given me a chance to apologise for the disappearance of the above De La Salle College (Sheffield) ex pupils website that I created and updated.

Some of this site is still salvageable from the Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.de-lasalle.freeserve.co.uk) for those who are interested.

Ridgewalk

02-08-2008, 08:28

I'd just like to endorse what Bushbaby writes. I too attended De La Salle (1965-1971). I don't have one good memory of my time there. I think I'm just getting over the psychological scars and feelings of inferiority that the experience left me with. Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming the school for every ill in the world, I did reasonably well in life personally and professionally, I just blocked the years 1965-1971 from memory and it wasn't until I got into conversation with other ex-pupils i realised just how angry we all are and all share similar issues. I don't believe it provided anythink useful in respect of direction or life skills and I'm baffled as to why some people choose to join De la Salle affiliated organisations. I was neither Sheffield based or came from a middle class background so that may explain why I was ill suited to the school

nosy nellie

02-08-2008, 13:25

Back in the early fifties we used to have temporary workers during the summer holidays at Burdalls gravy salt,and I remember quite a few lads came to work with us from De La Salle,any of you out there.:love:

pensionipper

04-08-2008, 08:21

I was there in 1950/51 when Brother Leonard was headmaster.Brother Wilfred (the smiling assassin - he always smiled as he wielded the strap) was in charge of discipline, and there was Brother Camulus who was mad as a hatter and ended up in the nuthouse. At that time there were 'civilian' teachers as well: 'Sam' Cleary who taught English very well, Mr. Cordwell - maths I think- and Sid Blaydon for art. Anyone who remembers these will be sure to remember 'Jos', J. O'Sullivan who was easy to wind up, so we did almost every lesson. There was just one female teacher who was good and very popular, Miss.... the name escapes me but I did hear that she died a while back after many years service.
We had to wear a t-shirt, shorts, pumps and nothing else for football, and once it was snowing so hard that the game was abandoned and we were made to run round the pitch to make up the time. Another time when 'games' was cancelled we were all issued with a pair of scissors each and made to cut the grass! The strap was a lot worse than the cane, and it all makes you wonder what today's cotton wool kids would make of it today. Happiest days of your life? Who knows.

pensionipper

04-08-2008, 08:23

Sorry! There aren't many things I do twice these days but I duplicated this.:huh:

CHAIRBOY

14-10-2008, 18:31

Former pupil now Star landlord! Step forward, Tom Boulding.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/diary/This-Rough-pub39s-a-real.4584247.jp

innit

27-10-2008, 07:07

I went there in the late sixties and what a miserable hole it was. Brother Serenus was a complete sadist. I remember him getting a new "toy" - a piece of broom handle about a foot long which he used freely and without warning to punish boys for perceived misdemeanours. The broom handles reign of terror was mercifully short, only lasting a week or two before disappearing as suddenly as it arrived.
My parents never tired of telling me how lucky I was to be there, but I was never so happy as I was when I left to go to sixth form elsewhere.

hazel

28-10-2008, 06:00

Sheffco who started this thread died in January and carried his hatred of De La Salle to his grave, also the scars.
He must have attended there around 52- 57 and being at the poorer end of society, got there on intelligence alone.
It seems this was not enough only the boys who's parents had money survived without ill treatment and the rest were, as John said, battered for no good reason.
Quite a contrast to Notre Dame who I have good memories of.
hazel

innit

02-11-2008, 17:47

It seems this was not enough only the boys who's parents had money survived without ill treatment and the rest were, as John said, battered for no good reason.

hazel

True. If you'd arrived via the money route, it seemed possible to get away with anything, or if your parents were in the Catenians, which amounts to the same thing I guess.

swift nick

11-01-2009, 01:11

I think I attended De La Salle later than most people posting to this thread (early- to mid-70s). I'm familiar with Valleyhill's website and contributed to it while it still existed.

I wouldn't gainsay anyone else's experience, either from my time at the school or from any earlier period -- I'm sure that everyone faithfully reports exactly what they found. I can only say from *my own* recollection that, for the most part, I found De La Salle a positive experience. I don't believe that's 'looking through rose tinted spectacles' as I can remember the the less pleasant episodes with as much clarity as the pleasant ones. My own background was working class, but I experienced no prejudice on that score. I didn't find a culture of sadistic behaviour in the staff, though the practice of corporal punishment persisted. In the main I found this to be implemented without enthusiasm (but can remember exceptions to that generality).

I'm truly very sorry to read that others found cruelty a defining characteristic of the establishment. There is no excuse for abuse of the young. I can only say that I'm relieved I didn't find the same situation in those later years when I attended.

Ridgewalk

11-01-2009, 09:51

Without labouring the point I left in 1971 and basically blocked the whole experience from mind. I say blocked more like tried to repress the thoughts from affecting my life too much. I tried to forget about the whole thing but I've met several ex pupils along the way and I'm astonished that their memories and experiences reflect my own. I'm not sure I've ever get over it but its reassuring to know that I'm not alone. Don't get the idea that I'm some sort of bitter and twisted navel gazing neurotic (hope not anyway) because I've just retired after 37 years in an extremely demanding profession, never done "sick" or avoided difficult situations. I've a great family and looking forward to spending time with my beautiful grand children and a second home in the south of France.

I took up martial arts in 1973 possibly as a sort of psychological defence mechanism in order to improve my feelings of self worth and well being and I belive its the lifelong commitment to this that has shaped my life for the better.

To hell with De La Salle

mikal

11-01-2009, 10:21

I attended between 1958-1963,the strap, the cane, and slipper from the P.E teacher were things I remember. I remember that all the teachers who were not Brothers wore their gowns when they were teaching. I remember Mr Macsweeney,the English teacher who put me off Shakespeare for life.

swift nick

11-01-2009, 14:46

I'm not picking a fight, people: I guess I was lucky.

However, I did witness student-on-student viciousness (rather than teacher-on-student viciousness) and that certainly made me angry.

I keep up with a few others of my vintage and I canvassed some opinions. Like me, they have (on balance) favourable recollections.

My English teachers were Finnegan, Cleary, McKay, Althorpe and Boulding. 80% of them were good teachers and reasonable men. Of that 80% Boulding was not only an excellent teacher but a thoroughly decent human being and, to some, an inspiration. He deserves -- and people like him deserve -- due credit.

Anyhow, it's a long time ago and I don't live in or for the past. We live in the present and hopefully we've all been able to make the most of it.

Kind regards to all.

rictar

25-01-2009, 11:02

I attended between 1956 and 63. I have varying memories. Yes - some teachers were easy to wind up.

For others, nothing was too much trouble - I remember Alphonsus helping boys pass maths at O level because they needed to it get to university. Those who struggled - he did a great deal to help. And the late Miss Eakin in French - I think she meant and did very well.

Yes - some were flawed characters - and I will not name them. One of them victimised my younger brother (psychologically) and I had words with the teacher after I left the school. Others I think overdid the discipline. One or two (as is sometimes the case with teachers) were inadequate personalities.

The philosophy of teaching - and general approach to religion - were changing. And their approach was becoming less relevant. Like many, I left organised religion and my children and my grandchildren are not religious at all.

Perhaps we all have to exorcise our ghosts.

Pete_S

27-01-2009, 06:21

Bushbaby

27-01-2009, 13:54

Well...
That's just about unanimous!!

rictar

08-02-2009, 11:20

Looking over the posts, I am trying to think why we put these things on the web. Was the experience all negative? Were we all subject to random cruelty?

No - but we remember only the bad bits.

I did not enjoy school at all. Although I suspect that I was one of the 'achievers', I wanted out - and left as soon as I could. There were some exceptional teachers Brother Alphonsus; Gent (who taught chemistry); Merrick.

Some of the teachers were limited personalities.

The religious were strict - and some were inadequate personalities. Some were excellent.

The sports teachers had limited imagination......

How shall we exorcise our demons? Do these blogs help??

:(

hazel

09-02-2009, 02:16

Attended this hell-hole from 1953-1957, the worst years of my life. The lay teachers weren't so bad but the "religious" brothers were sadists!

Pupils intending to be Brothers, Priests, Doctors, etc. were treated OK, the rest of us............

I managed to get my dad to release me in the final year after which the grinning b.....d Wilf implied I had been expelled.

I have no religion now.

Hi Pete
You must have been there at the same time as my brother Sheffco who started this thread and carried his hatred of the school to his death.
He was a scholarship boy from a council estate and he paid dearly for being from a poor family.
I think his time there scarred him for life.
My parents thinking they were giving us the best education possible had no idea how bad it was for John. I was OK, I found the Notre Dame nuns were kind and caring
hazel

Bushbaby

09-02-2009, 15:37

How shall we exorcise our demons? Do these blogs help??
:(

They certainly help me!!

Bushbaby

10-02-2009, 08:28

In my first year at the college, the English teacher was a scrawny little guy called Alpheus (Alfie), a member of the demonic brotherhood. He had soft fleshy hands, skinny arms, a pencil neck, and oversized round wire-rimmed glasses perched atop a beaky nose.
Imagine if you will, Charles Hawtrey in a cassock, but with fewer male hormones.

I remember one particular day….

“Poetry!” he shouted as he elbowed his way through the door, carrying a pile of red text books, which he then distributed about the class in the manner of a whirling dervish sorting out the mail

“Page 44 – Timothy Winter”…

He then got the whole class to stand and chant the poem as he knocked out a staccato beat on the desk with one of his precious holy books

“Ti-Mo-Thee-Win Ter Goes to school.
Da-da-da-da da-da da-da
Da-da-da-da da-da da-da”
And so on, all the while pounding away at the front, his neck pulsing like a deep-vein trombonist.

Every time someone broke the tempo, he would shout “N0” and give three sharp raps for an emergency stop. He would then humiliate the cretin who had messed up before going back to the beginning, searching vainly for a consensus of rhythm.
After half-an-hour of this I recall being so thoroughly disheartened and deciding that I hated the whole shebang. The school, the class, the teacher, the poem, the poet, the entire Fred Karno’s army..

Fast forward then 30 years. I’m a Communications Engineer working in a Radio Lab in Chesterfield, calibrating Transceivers for the new mobile phone systems…

I’d got the place to myself for the day, and had cranked the wireless up to 11. It was Radio 4’s Poetry Day, where the normal scheduling was interrupted at intervals by actors reading popular and indeed populist poems, the first in a series of events designed to revive a dying art - a successful venture as it turned out.
I had already been blown away by Juliet Stevenson’s performance of TS Eliot’s “The Waste Land”, had determined myself to get hold of a copy, and was looking forward to the daily drama

“In two minutes, The Afternoon Play…” a received pronunciation announced “ …but first, Martin Jarvis reads “Timothy Winter” by Charles Causley”

An icy shiver went down my spine and my hands shook so much I had to put my soldering iron down.
In my naivety, I had genuinely expected Martin to start spitting out the mono syllables of my memory, accompanied by some BBC Sound Effects “John Bonham” rattling out “Trampled Underfoot” on a Victorian School desk with a dog-eared catechism.

Imagine my surprise then when, in his mellow “made for radio” baritone he began gently..

“Timothy Winter goes to school..
His eyes as WIDE as a football pool…”

As he continued, I realised what a beautiful poem this was, full of genteel undulating rhythms and vivid images, and marked with barbed comments about the level of poverty in post-war Britain, Middle-Class ignorance, and fingers pointed at the gaping holes in the Welfare State’s so called safety nets.
It was quite simply glorious

I thought back to that day with Alfie, and I wanted to hate him. I really really wanted to hate him, more than I had ever done before
But you know what?
I couldn’t.
All I could do was pity him
Here was a guy whose job included teaching poetry to twelve year old kids, and he hadn’t got a clue
Instead of looking in detail at the soft cadences, at the stark imagery, the politics, the satire and the jibes at Britain’s “you’ve never had it so good” class system mentality, all he cared about was his “Beat-out-that-rhythm-on-a-drum” palpitations, and I thought, what a wretched waste of a life.
Instead of making kids miserable, he should have joined his separated-at-birth twin brother in the Carry-On films, and given us all a larf!!

seanymac13

11-02-2009, 14:36

Bushbaby,

I remember Alpheus, he had that strap contraption and used to give out 'twopenny ones' or 'fourpenny ones' if I remember correctly. The likeness to Charles Haughtrey was unbelievable!

On topic, I was there from '64 - '69, but never really hated it. Despite the feelings of other posters, I also came off a council estate (Shiregreen initially and then Firth Park), but never had the feeling of being picked on because I was from 'the wrong side of the tracks'. However, I did have an older cousin there who tended to look after me!

Sport was always my top priority and I played football and cricket regularly throughout my time there.

Academically, it was not my best achievement.

patfitzbally

13-03-2009, 19:42

1956-1961 the years of the b! wilf who gave me 6 of the best for booing a hated prefect at speech day (not guilty).loved merrick and alphonse who taught me all i know.remember the death of whaley ,the lunatic antics of foley without his medication.and the mad paddy mcsweeney organising 600 of us in lines in the yard.met many good friends but not of the sheffield mafia of waldron and mckenna who were sad bullies.it was a tough upbringing and as capstick said "the dunt know the born today"

pensionipper

14-03-2009, 09:44

I'd totally forgotten old McSweeney! He introduced himself to the class by asking each pupil where they lived and as soon as they answered he named the nearest pub! He was never wrong, which was something of an achievement as it covered all Sheffield districts and locations between here and Doncaster!! I think that was the only thing anyone learned in his class; an invaluable part of education for all...

patfitzbally

16-03-2009, 19:46

some memories of dls in the mid 50 s.trying to play soccer with a 7lb ball top of a hill at concorde park in a force 9 gale led by a crazy young irish brother called camellius (i am sure this is the same place that is featured in the film "the full monty". firing 303 and bren guns in the college acf at camps at beckingham and fort william under the command of cpt archer and u.officer dennis finnegan who played centre half at sheff utd as deputy to joe shaw.i also remember tom fenoughty also played for utd. at the end of our 2nd year 20 of us congregated on the evil smelling don bridge at castle market and threw our hated school caps into the river. the strange aroma of the chapel where many went to pray days before exams.the pe teacher cpt wall who made everyone hang upside down on the paraell bars to make sure the wernt wearing underpants.........being late for assembly. ahaaaag

John1954

17-03-2009, 08:57

I remember Alpheus, he had that strap contraption and used to give out 'twopenny ones' or 'fourpenny ones' if I remember correctly. The likeness to Charles Haughtrey was unbelievable!

I believe he referred to it as his "biffer" and I was on the receiving end of it several times.

However, I can't claim to be the pupil in our English class who received a "fourpenny one" for laughing when Alpheus told us how he used to physically float in the air in a state of ecstasy during some of his many praying sessions.

It's hard to believe these religious brothers were responsible for the education of children.

gladys clark

17-03-2009, 16:01

hazel

17-03-2009, 17:29

Hi Gladys
Notre Dame are holding a past pupil's morning on the 25th April from10-12
Tel 2302536 if interested.
hazel

Bushbaby

17-03-2009, 17:38

Hi Gladys
Notre Dame are holding a past pupil's morning on the 25th April from10-12
Tel 2302536 if interested.
hazel
I'll tell my sister

seanymac13

18-03-2009, 15:56

Hi Gladys
Notre Dame are holding a past pupil's morning on the 25th April from10-12
Tel 2302536 if interested.
hazel

Hi Hazel,

Thanks, I'll tell my mum, she was a pupil back in the '40's.

Sean

gladys clark

19-03-2009, 09:13

Hi Gladys
Notre Dame are holding a past pupil's morning on the 25th April from10-12
Tel 2302536 if interested.
hazel

Thanks for that Hazel, shades of Sr Monica GULP!

hazel

19-03-2009, 16:17

gladys clark

20-03-2009, 23:31

I can just remember Sister Marie Pierre, famous for showing girls who misbehaved the writing above the front door

Notre Dame High School for Young Lades.

She interviewed me when I was 11 just before she retired.
hazel

Hi Hazel my grandaughter is a Hazel I was interviewed by Sr Monica at Cavendish St had to read something from wind in the willows or maybe it was the water babies whatever!!! she commented on my diction. Do you remember the school song. Not forgetting the Houses, Picardy,Cuvilly and Compienge don't know whether I've spelt them right and Blessed Mere Julie Billiart With hearts aglow round banners bright-----et al

hazel

21-03-2009, 06:53

Hi Gladys
in serried ranks we stand, all ready for the glorious fight against all wrong for Christs own right to rule our loved land----and in fighting we will sing.
Stirring stuff wasn't it.

The school song was introduced new when I was in the 4th or 5th year, before that I don't think we had one. I started there in 1947.
And the houses were at that time
St Joseph green house
Sacred Heart red
Our Lady blue ( I think )
Blessed Mere Julie gold.

hazel

libstir

26-03-2009, 15:39

I was at De La Salle from 58 ---63 it never scarred me mentally or physically,in fact i am proud to say that i attended.

Sean_a

07-06-2009, 12:52

Anyone know where records od De La Salle in the 30s can be found. Or can they?

Redfyre

09-06-2009, 20:12

Anybody have any memories of Dennis Hackett, who must have attended De La Salle in the 1940s? He went on to become quite a famous journalist with the Herald, Express and various magazines. He started at the Sheffield Telegraph. He was married in 1953 to Agnes Mary Collins.

Bill Lee

18-08-2009, 09:49

1952-1957 I hated it. I was not a rebel but I averaged 4-6 strokes of the strap a week. I was forever in detention and twice a week got you strapped. Many a time the whole class was put in detention for no reason other than for talking too loud. The brothers along with normal schools used to run reform schools and others this I believe was where the disciplinary regime came from. As anyone else done the Saturday morning garden duties because of detention excess in a week. Leonard was a pussy Wilfred who became Headmaster was a Smiling Masochist. Note I didnt use the prefix brother as they didnt deserve it

pjkay

18-10-2009, 16:54

Thanks for that Hazel, shades of Sr Monica GULP!

notre dame.I was a boy scholar. Do you remember the black boy who ate your money in the dining room if you left any food. I was with my sister pat kenrick. but had to leave before puberty(shame) went to St Maries after on Duchess rd..Sister Marie Piere was at N.D. She made me strap myself onthe legs for kissing girls in the cloakroom. Was it you.?? There were so many and I was so young..xx

pjkay

18-10-2009, 17:11

i'm afraid you have the wrong end of the stick here.
The brothers at de la salle were not the christian brothers they were the brothers of st jean baptiste de la salle.

Christian brothers are an entirely different organisation and have had some problems with abuse, although you cannot judge thousands of men on the actions of a few.

ok>> the so called christian brothers who taught at dls were brutal disciplinarians>> anything else thats not understood????

pjkay

18-10-2009, 17:22

pjkay

18-10-2009, 17:25

good old Sam Cleary..Long gone I am afraid

fortysixer

31-10-2009, 04:53

I came across this site by chance, having almost forgotten my time at De La Salle. I went there in 1946 - a group of us travelling daily by train from Chesterfield and always arriving (thankfully) too late for morning assembly! From what I can gather, the regime must have become more strict during the fifties and sixties. It wasn't too bad when I was there, with the exception of Brother Peter - the headmaster who, as far as I can remember, never smiled and the utterly obnoxious Brother Wilfrid. Apart from enjoying hurting young boys - a total sadist - he was the most appalling snob. If you were middle class and reasonablly proficient at Maths you were one of his favourites but if you came from a poor background you were treated by him with utter contempt. God knows how this man, who was scarcely a human being, ever became a teacher. Brother Maximus, on the other hand, although he used the strap, didn't really believe in it and kept it soft to the point where it meant nothing to be beaten by him. I don't suppose he could stand out against the ethos of the school but he did his best. The remainder of the brothers I can hardly remember, but none of them was much of a teacher. The same applied to the lay staff, with the exception of Miss Ekin - a lovely woman who clearly enjoyed her calling. Eventually I got tired of the whole set-up there and got myself transferred to Chesterfield Grammar School, where I finally got a proper education, going on to Oxford a couple of years later. If I were ever tempted to return to Roman Catholicism I would only have to remember my time at De La Salle to cause me to change my mind.

fortysixer

31-10-2009, 05:19

Looking at what I said above about the lay staff, I was a little unfair to the chemistry master, Mr Hopkins. I couldn't stand chemistry but it was quite clear, even to me, that he was a good and committed teacher. Apart from him, however, only Miss Ekin and Brother Maximus were good teachers and some of the brothers were unbelievably bad. I still remember the ancient - he must have been 70+ - brother John who 'taught' Geography. The only thing I can ever remember his saying is that 'The Doldrums', in spite of appearances to the contrary, was a singular noun and had to take a singular verb. God, he was boring!

pjkay

31-10-2009, 07:58

Goodbye DLS..Too much time spent talking about bad times.. My life has been great since I left. So I learnt that somethings are wonderful ,if they are in your rear view mirror, and you are accelerating away . PK Cape Town

fortysixer

31-10-2009, 08:53

It is probably best, as pjKay says, to let it go. The mention of Notre Dame (apparently a much better school) brings back one memory, however. It was a couple of years before I went back to Sheffield, going with a few friends to a concert at the City Hall - Humphrey Littleton, if I remember. We sat next to a group of girls and began chatting. One of them I remembered being at Notre Dame when I was at De La Salle. After the concert I asked if I could take her home and she agreed. Her parents ran a bed and breakfast establishment in Totley. We arranged to meet again a few days later and this time we took advantage of her parents' absence to enjoy each other's virginity in one of the guest rooms. What we lacked in expertise we made up for in enthusiasm and the memory has lived with me for over 50 years. Afterwards, as we lay smoking a cigarette - we did in those days - she laughed and said, "What would my nuns and your brothers say if they saw us now?" I said I didn't know what they would say but that I could imagine what they would feel - envy!

pjkay

31-10-2009, 09:33

Shame on you fortysixer..The young girls cover is now blown. Guess she's past her sell by date and the Parents long gone.. My sister ex Notre Dame still in Sheffield..saw her in
2006. First time in Sheffield for 26yrs. My how the place has changed. Didnt know my way around. We never had a Guest house at Totley, thank God. The lure of Africa and the sunshine claimed me in 1972. Now going into my 73rd year I have fond memories of Sheffield but not the weather. Best Regards Peter. Cape Town

aston dave

07-11-2009, 15:26

I'm sorry but I don't recognise the De La Salle College that I attended. I was there from 1948 to 1952, and I well remember Brother Wilfred who was at that time deputy to Brother Leonard who was then headmaster, and his 'strap', but don't recall anyone, me included, ever being punished without deserving it.
I also recall Mr Wall, the PE master, who was never anything but fair, tough perhaps but no more than that. I remember being made to continue a fight with gloves on, in the Gym, at his insistence.
I do remember being singled out by dear Winnie Eakin, but that was because she had been at Notre Dame with my mother whose standards I obviously failed to match, but even then, never without reason.
At the time I was there, very few boys were fee paying pupils. I would guess that 95% of us were scholarship boys and I never noticed any difference in treatment.
Aston dave.

pjkay

07-11-2009, 16:37

Well read the website in detail..You seem to have sailed under the radar..But thats fine..Do you remember Glenny the guy who lived at Coal Aston.. In my class and had the biggest.. Showed it to all nearly got caught by Bro Christopher..Bro Chris ws the one who taught French and punished on the fingers with a sharp side of the ruler..All very civilsed..He did not use the special straps the other brothers had.. Glad you loved the fair discipline..

Tonyt

13-01-2010, 14:26

I was very sorry to find that the original site had disappeared but am very pleased to find that it is still accessible via the Wayback Machine.

I too, had untold trouble with Orange and ditched it when I recently moved home.

I can well understand the attitude of past pupils regarding a small number of Brothers who had, a somewhat, twisted approach to teaching and discipline.

There were however some very gifted teachers there, both 'religeous' and lay.
It is a pity that, in life, the positive tends not to be remembered so well.

Clearly a large number of pupils benefited from their education at DLSC. A number, like myself, would have benefited more if they had applied themselves to the task involved.

Two good friends were sacked just before they sat their GCE, I was put on probation.

Nevertheless the school was held in high respect in South Yorkshire, the pupil places were much sought for.

I am sure St.John the Baptist De La Salle must have turned in his grave at the presence of some Brothers who entered the Order.

:nono:

pensionipper

14-01-2010, 09:24

Tonyt

14-01-2010, 15:53

Pjkay - Glenny! Glendenning. You must have been in the same class as myself as I sat next to Glenny for a while (2a?) where he spent the whole of his time drawing bombers, tanks and 'Mighty Antar' transporters, no matter what the official subject was. Recently an O.S.T. guy recognised me from De La Salle and we had a bit of a chat: Barry Gay. I wouldn't have recognised him as the last time I saw him was in 1954 or 55! Toddy, Ward, Redfearn, Durkin, 'Dusty' Dawson - ring any bells? Never knew about Glenny's 'blessing', though. Crazy days. Good luck!:hihi:

Clearly we were all in the same class. There were two Gays - Kevin Barry and Barry Kevin - one was the uncle of the other. Glenny's mother was I believe a teacher and he always seem to have a few bob - unlike myself.I was kicked out of the under13 school side as my Dad could not afford to pay the sports fund set up by Capt.Wall for equipment - I had two other brothers at the school at the same time as myself.

My two friends were Peter Kendrick - who had a very nice sister - lived at Norton and Donald Sinclair Baker who lived near us at Hunters Bar.

Malcolm Redfearn lives in the USA, Thornton is Aberdeen and Michael Holden lives in Devon - they have all been in touch. Sadly Ewart Sandham died when he was only 21 of Hodgkinsons whilst he was in the RAF. I had kept in touch with him after leaving DLSC.

pensionipper

15-01-2010, 08:31

[Hi Tony _ I tried to send a p.m. but there are about 9 Tony T's...if you can send me one I can reply and get it right. I met an old school tie in Sheff. a few years ago - another who recognised me - and we both finished up singing : "Up college bravely flying (?) like men of stirling mold etc. etc."... "the starlit green and gold"!! SIZE="3"][/SIZE]

Brian White

31-05-2010, 06:38

I was at De La Salle during the war years. It didn't seem so bad to me at that time. Headmaster was Brother Peter, Brother Aiden was out of retirement to teach French and algebra, Mr Waring taught French and religion and the popular Mr Coley taught chemistry. It was brutal by today's standards, but corporal punishment was legal then and was thought to be a good thing. I think we all got cheated in history with no mention of things like the Holy Inquisition which were embarrassing to Catholics. I didn't find out till thirty years later why Englishmen were so hot under the collar about 'Papists'. I was probably one of the worst boys they ever had because I never did any homework. Always had more interesting things to do.

ged150

09-10-2010, 19:57

i attended de la salle from 1966 to 1970 never hated anything in my life as much as that school nothing christian about the brothers

RickyO

20-10-2010, 22:22

I was a student from 1944-48 and I agree they were pretty strict with plenty of strap being dished out plus the dreaded detention but there were plenty of good times as well. Some, but not all, of the Brothers and lay teachers certainly believed that education by intimidation worked. I would say that in the 40's we didn't have a lot of the problems mentioned by later students. I still remember many of my fellow sudents ( I have a year book with photos etc. and the large school photo of 1947 - my children can't pick me out).
My sister was at Notre Dame at the same time as I was at De La Salle and I still remember when we both had geography homework I used to draw the maps for both of us and she used to colour them in.

euren

29-12-2010, 23:58

I was at DLS from 1946 through 1952. Sometimes I wonder if the De La Salle I went to was on a different planet from what many of the posters recall. Perhaps I was just a Goody-two-shoes and blind. There were people teaching whose suitability I have questioned in my mind since. But it was OK. If it weren't for the fact that I have met, and continue to see old schoolmates (hello Tewksbury), DLS would hardly come to mind. I've had far worse life experiences - bombing during the war, divorce, being broke, those kinds of things - and far better things, love, work I enjoyed, friends, sailing....

Ridgewalk

03-01-2011, 06:28

I was there at the same time as Ged 1965-1970. I honestly don't have a single good memory of my time there.As it happens I was a "goody two shoes" and can't ever remember getting into trouble but the whole atmosphere /ambience was unpleasant and oppressive. It didn't help that I had to travel from my home on the Wakefield-Barnsley border by bus every day, returning home at nearly 6pm. I must have spent the whole 5 years completely knackered

euren

03-01-2011, 07:06

I do think it was remarkable how kids from areas like Doncaster, Rotherham, and Chesterfield made it to school every day - I suppose that was one of the more obvious drawbacks of having to look for a Catholic Grammar School in the area. Anyway, one other question came up in my mind - what were the other Grammar Schools like? Didn't they have some unsuitable teachers on their staff? Didn't they have Prefects, and detentions and writing lines and assemblies and so on? They probably didn't have to maintain the buildings and sports fields. (My guess is that the state paid for operating expenses of religious schools like DLS, and religious schools had to raise capital. So other schools, CofE, run by the state (whatever that is - Sheffield Education Authority?), had maintenance staffs - no student had to cut grass iwth scissors...) Apart from that, was DLS so different from other Grammar Schools? I must admit, I've never been that curious. I personally left Sheffield right away to go to University in Manchester, and then emigrated. So, grammar school was just part of the process of growing up, DLS was all I knew at that time.

ikepot44

10-01-2011, 10:34

Just been reading the posts for the first time - and a lot of them do reflect my own time at DLSCS (1953-60). Yes, there is much truth in many of the comments, but we have to remember that the Past is a foreign country and they do things differently there . . . and try to have some perspective.

For a start, we (and the nation), were very much poorer than we are now; not long out of a big war; we lived in a gritty, grimy, basic-values city ; and now for the first time, we had an entitlement (1944 Education Act) to free, universal state-provided Secondary education - very different from the Elementary education offered to most of our parents. Influenced by the doctored research findings of Sir Cyril Burt, this universal secondary education was organised via the filter of the 11+ examination on lines of : academic kids to Grammar Schools (c.20%), techies to Technical Schools (c.10%), worker/vocational kids to the Secondary Moderns (c.70%).

In a further twist, a school could opt for Direct-grant status, which DLSCS did
- and this had pretty large implications for the school. And for all of us.

Shall I go on - or is this all a bit boring and well-known . . . ?

ikepot44

14-01-2011, 13:56

The point about the Direct-grant to grammar schools like DLSCS was that they governed themselves, by-passing the Local education Authority, with 70% of the Governors selected from Catholic sources, making their own school rules. ('Ordinary' schools run by the Local Education Authority, Sheffield in our case, could only have 30% Catholic governors.) So DLSCS ran its own show, appointing but (very rarely) sacking teachers according to its own lights, running the school exactly as it wished, subject to occasional and not very deep HM Inspection.

The price Direct-grant schools played for this was that, while all their revenue costs (such as teachers' salaries, electricity, educational supplies etc) were met by the grant direct from Government - all the school's CAPITAL COSTS had to be met independently by the Governing body. No state help on this.

Now . . . if you remember Bro Wilf's predecessor, Bro Leonard, life was a bombardment of begging letters, fund-raising stunts etc , in order to pay the capital costs of eg the new block/science labs/library. And all that went up and we all benefitted. But I cannot remember Bro Wilf himself ever raising funds from us and our families. Perhaps he approached local Catholic rich people - or perhaps he took the money he needed from DLSC's Brothers' teaching salaries. So maybe the brothers worked only for pocket money . . .

Maybe this is where Wilf failed. Fund-raising. The school's capital provision ran down and ran down (no Technology workshops, very limited range of subjects) and dwindled to nothing, to zero by the time 1976 came and so the school therefore had to incorporate with the existing LEA-run secondary modern All Saints into a 'comprehensive'. Notre Dame did not. What was the difference ?

What Wilf did was buy real estate : remember Crabtree ? Beauchief ? both primarily cricket campuses ? And he/the school ultimately had to sell them both off, as perhaps the only way to raise capital, to keep the school up to date, as far as it could. Imagine if Wilf's fund-raising abilities under those old rules had had to keep raising continuous big money to buy successive generations of computers, essential in today's education . . .

So I think his failure was less about being the legendary Smiling Sadist and more about not being an Enterprise Head with a business mind. The school was doomed to dwindle and die under him - it took years, but it did happen. Just why wasn't he best mates with Michael joseph Gleeson ?

Anyway, I still salute him - he did a good job for me personally and for a (too small) number of other academic kids. But he did fail DLSCS' C-streams and D-streams. But then all the other grammar schools failed theirs - and that was their built-in tragedy.

If you don't already know, Bro Wilfrid died on 26 February 2003 in his 63rd year of 'Religious Profession'. He rose to the very top of the DLS UK order and he was in many ways a capable bloke of very high intelligence. He had a lot to put up in health terms, including losing a foot, amputated to diabetes.

If you still pray, remember him, eh . . . ?

euren

14-01-2011, 14:18

Thank you, Ikepot44, a lot of information there that I didn't know. You seem very well informaed. I pity the poor folks who had to deal with fund-raising. As a techie in Silicon Valley, I never had to deal with it myself, but in volunteer activities with what we call not-for-profits, I see it all the time. I'm the recipient at this season just concluded, of letters of appeal even from England. For example, Become an American Friend of Covent Garden, and Manchester University. I personally feel deluged. My main question though in reading all those letters of complaint from other alumni, about caning and strapping and so on, what happened in other grammar schools in Sheffield? Was it the norm in those days to be subject to physical punishment which could lead to abuse? Was DLS very different from other schools? So did we really have a choice? Except where to be caned? To my American friends here, such punishment is unheard of. (Perhaps in private "Prep" schools" copying English public schools there was some.) Anyway, thanks again. And sorry to hear about Wilfrid - I didn't know he had died, I did know about the Diabetes and the amputation.

flightliner

14-01-2011, 16:26

Excuse the intrusion from someone who didnt go to DLS but just out of interest many of you will remember the gym- well- the floor was taken up after the school closed and is now in a house conversion just outside manchester.- Thought you'd like to know.

ikepot44

16-01-2011, 17:30

Euren asks if other Sheffield schools beat their pupils as much as DLSCS did. I don't know for sure - but at least Sheffield LEA schools had to record their canings in an official log : The School Punishment Book. A pal of mine was at one time Deputy Head at a big Sheffield Secondary School - and he was the only person authorised to hit pupils there, and in a measured and recorded way. Do you think DLSCS had a Punishment Book ? Everybody seemed to hit the pupils at DLSCS - not just one authorised person. Don't forget : DLSCS was a Direct-grant school - money direct from Government - so could the mechanisms of control and monitoring have been at London- distance, not on Leopold Street ?

One possible pointer : perhaps it all had to did with a mindset that beating the boys was a way of keeping them obedient enough for their souls to be guaranteed saved. And such an objective in those days justified any amount of flogging, didn't it ? Another : the Irish tradition of CP was very deep-rooted, again perhaps to save souls - just watch the film THE MAGDALENE SISTERS. Yes, it's about girls and CP - but it shows the same thing. And the Christian Brothers (who were not DLSC Brothers, but same line of business) were absolutely infamous for running junior concentration camps. And there were plenty of Irish-background people at DLSCS . . . a mindset.

Another : the pre-Unification Papal States in Italy kept the adult population at a literacy level of 2% in to guarantee them God and Eternal Life. Bah ! And to exploit them like profitable livestock - in order to maintain the Papals in the manner that centuries of exploitation had accustomed them to . . .
a mindset. Beat the Body if you must - but Save the Soul !

And by the way, did anybody at DLSCS ever tell you about the barbarities of the Spanish Inquisition ? The bottomless corruption of the medieval Popes ?
The money ? The gold ? The Papal ******** ? Why did we have centuries of exclusively Italian popes, until Woytila, the Polish cardinal ? Could it be politics ? Ecclesiastical mafiosi ? The family business ? Cosa Nostra ?

There was - and is - a lot of lying and hypocrisy about . . . .

But all that said - there were some really good teachers at DLSCS and we should all be glad and grateful for that. The school did a pretty good job (for some pupils, not all) inside a malevolent context. I'm just glad that times have moved on. How long do you think the prison sentences would have been these days for harsh, every-single-day-beaters like, say, Camillus - and Wilf himself . . . ?

euren

16-01-2011, 17:42

Oh yes, I'[ve been through all that Organized Religion stuff. Having spent time working in Latin America too, and having read about Catholicism there too, well yes I know about most of it. In some separate emails, the topic of the School Fund came up which my old school mentioned how they contributed about £2. In my own case, my family contributed. too. Once I won a £5 prize in that "Find the Ball" contest that they ran in the Green 'Un. It was a picture from a football game where the ball had been removed (without Photoshop! That must have been a pain in the neck). Anyway, us contestants had to say, somehow, where the ball was.

£5 prize came in the form of a check/cheque, which we had no idea of how to convert into real money. So DLS (Brother Leonard, I think) did it for us and mentioned that there was a School Fund. To which we contributed dutifully, I've no idea how much.

Thans for your insights. Punishment Book, never heard of such a thing.

micmac

17-01-2011, 18:46

Does anyone remember the Waldron brothers? Steve, Peter, & Michael. they must have attended between the early 50's & the mid 60's. They lived on the edge of Parsons Cross and had a sister Margret who was sadly killed in a RTA. at the Flouch Inn. I would very much like to know the present whereabouts of Peter. Lost touch with him in the 70's. I lived on the same street as the family & Peter was my best man in 1968.

peter bush

20-01-2011, 14:57

Mick used to be my best pal when they lived on Butchill Ave (33). Pete was in the same class as my brother. I know Stephen lives in Lancashire area now and I believe Pete is still in Sheffield, They both used to live at Greenhill. Last I knew Mick still lives on Handsworth Rd (446 I think) but I dont know the address of Pete. It was tragic what happened to Margaret. She was only about 18.

Bushbaby

20-01-2011, 15:05

. It was tragic what happened to Margaret. She was only about 18.
Sister Mercy was distraught. We had a "Black Vestments" mass for her at Tommy More's

ikepot44

06-06-2011, 08:35

Like everybody else, as I grow older the past looms larger . . . One thing I seem to come back to again and again is that contact there used to be between the boys at DLSC and the girls at Notre Dame HS, as at Christmas school dances.

I remember those chaste dance steps painfully and embarrassingly learned at Constance Grant's on West Street - but at least you could legally lay hands on your partner in those days, instead of just helplessly watching untouchable pelvic and inelegant twitches, as today.

I often wonder what became of an especially attractive NDHS girl who, unusually, did 'A' levels in Maths, Physics and Chemistry - and went on to become a metallurgist back in those days (1960s/1970s) when Sheffield still had a world-leading steel industry. Not much else, but the city did still have Big Steel . . .

Her name was Elizabeth R-something and she lived in Dore with her three sisters (Mary ? Bernadette ? Julie ?) and two brothers (? and ? - who both went to DLSC). Her dad was an accountant and her mother was a terror.

It would be nice to know she married, had kids and led a happy life . . .

Anybody know the girl I mean ?

pjkay

10-06-2011, 14:16

I'm afraid you have the wrong end of the stick here.
The brothers at De La Salle were not the Christian Brothers they were the Brothers of St Jean Baptiste De La Salle.

Christian Brothers are an entirely different organisation and have had some problems with abuse, although you cannot judge thousands of men on the actions of a few.

Whoever they were..I crossed them off my list at age 13.
Brothers Camilus Wilfred and Peter to name just a few of the Morons...Gave up being a Catholic and all that went with it.... Left school early and went to work
Never looked back...Maybe they were my saviours after all Thanks a LOT

carfieldkid

14-06-2011, 23:35

I am not surprised to see that many bullied and brutalised fellow pupils bear a bit of a grudge against the sadists in black. I was there 59-65. The ethos of the school was dominated by a deplorable level of physical punishment. The Borstal that the De La Salle Brothers ran in the South Midlands (?)was closed down for excessive brutality and Brother Ambrose's time when he went from Sheffield to be Head there was picked out by an Inquiry as a key period for setting these standards. Quote from Wilfred to boy caught running in the corridor taken off to be beaten "I'm going to enjoy myself with you Brocklesby". Contemptible.
I could go on but don't want to be too bitter.

I always thought MacSweeney (LMS) was different - apart from often being not quite sober after lunch - and one cannot imagine him holding down a job in a proper school - at least he had a sense of humour and constantly caricatured himself. Remember his reciting poetry?

"Home they brought her warrior dead.
She nor swooned nor uttered cry.
All her maidens watching said
She must weep or she will die

or
They bore him barefaced on the bier......

or

Not a drum was heard, not a funeral note,
As his corse to the rampart we hurried;
Not a soldier discharged his farewell shot
O'er the grave where our hero we buried.

We buried him darkly at dead of night,
The sods with our bayonets turning,

.....all aimed at getting a reaction and his reminders of the way we spoke. "I'll tell thee summat" he would roar "What does that mean?"

What happiness there was at the place was in friendship, deep in the bone rebellion, and in getting a taste for the eccentricities of some very strange people

pjkay

15-06-2011, 13:00

Clearly we were all in the same class. There were two Gays - Kevin Barry and Barry Kevin - one was the uncle of the other. Glenny's mother was I believe a teacher and he always seem to have a few bob - unlike myself.I was kicked out of the under13 school side as my Dad could not afford to pay the sports fund set up by Capt.Wall for equipment - I had two other brothers at the school at the same time as myself.

My two friends were Peter Kendrick - who had a very nice sister - lived at Norton and Donald Sinclair Baker who lived near us at Hunters Bar.

Malcolm Redfearn lives in the USA, Thornton is Aberdeen and Michael Holden lives in Devon - they have all been in touch. Sadly Ewart Sandham died when he was only 21 of Hodgkinsons whilst he was in the RAF. I had kept in touch with him after leaving DLSC.
WELL WEll WELL...Hi I am Peter Kenrick...A bit older now (73) and I have in the last couple of years linked up with my/your old Pal Don Baker..I dont know you unfortunately...But thats not surprising as I can not remember what happened last week// my sister still alive and living in Sheffield..Don also still in Sheffield...I have been in Africa sinced 1972.. My email peterfreda@telkokmsa.net

andycott

17-06-2011, 12:38

Veritas

17-06-2011, 17:56

I have just been reading a few posts and was saddened to hear about Bro Wilfred. When I started in sept 66, Bro Vincent was the Headmaster and the year after, Bro Wilfred took over. He was always kind to me and helped me with maths, it was only later I realised how easy maths was. From reading a lot of the posts, I must have gone to a different school, as I always enjoyed my time at DLSC from 66-73 in spite of the occasional penny or twopenny 'biffs' from Brother Alphious. It was a new Brother, Brother Peter who changed my life and told me I was good at languages, which is why I ended up in international trade and export and have never looked back.

I must admit it sounds like a different school to the one I went to and that the brothers must have mellowed by the time I arrived in 1971 and left in 1974.

Brother Wilfred was still at the helm and although could be fearsome when needed to be I found him to be usually fair minded.

Brother Anthony ( Brother Spike) - Maths - A very nice guy.

Brother Maximus -Biology I think - No problem

Brother Serenus- l don't recall being in any of his classes so can't comment.

Brother Peter - French - Another good guy left the order I believe and was rumoured to be last seen in a soft top sports car with an attractive blonde

Veritas2

22-06-2011, 13:04

I attended DLS from 1956 to 1961 and still have many memories of the school.
Wilfred was the headmaster when I started but I think he was moved on after about four years and another Brother became head.
MacSweeny was our English teacher. I don't remember learning much in English. He seemed to come in and chat to us for 35 minutes about any subject we chose to raise and that lasted to the end of the lesson.
Bro. Alphonsus taught RE and his lessons were always interesting.
We had a science teacher called Mr. Whaley who used to come to school on his scooter. One morning, probably in 1957, I arrived at school and saw Wilf crying as he went into his office. We later learnt that Mr Whaley had been killed in a RTA on the way to school that morning. Our year was chosen to sing at his requiem the following week. I recall Mr. Whaley as a good man.
I wasn't keen on our Physics teacher Mr. Wilson. Perhaps one of the reasons was that he put me into detention three times in a week which meant I had to go to school on Saturday morning and that was a forty mile round trip for me.
Mr Gent taught chemistry, I think he was an old boy of the school.
Mr. Foley taught maths. One day he came into class sat down at the front and said 'number 1'. A few minutes later he said 'number 2'. This went on until the end of the lesson and he continued to sit there. One of the boys went out and brought Capt. Wall the PE master into the class who cleared us all out. It turned out Mr. Foley was diabetic and must have failed to take his medication that day.
Brother Syrenus taught history. He was a snuff taker. He did make the subject interesting and made sure his pupils knew all the facts. I bet most of us passed our GCE's in that subject.
JOS taught geography, the less said about that the better.
We had a pupil in the class called Jimmy Ryan. Wilf came in to give him the stick for some reason I cannot recall but after a couple of strokes Jimmy said
'I'll 'ave n'more o' that'. MacSweeny never let Jimmy forget the incident and some time later Jimmy left the school.
There was a Brother with ginger hair whose name escapes me at the moment,
Cyril I think. He used to prowl the playground every day. He never taught me but I think his subject was geography. He caught me smoking and gave me the choice of being reported to Wilf or taking punishment from him. I chose the latter. He kept me waiting for weeks or maybe months. In the end I went and asked him if we could get it over with. Six of the best. That was painful.
I was a poor student and I blame that on a bad home life, too much travelling to school and a bad attitude on my part.

ikepot44

29-06-2011, 08:44

I wonder if we Catholics and ex-Catholics have enough of a self-deprecating sense of humour to take the mickey out of ourselves, in the same way that Jews can do with their Jewish jokes ? I am not talking about those racist Irish jokes (mostly not funny) but proper Catholic jokes, made to stop us taking ourselves so damn seriously . . . Dave Allen (d. 2005) used to do this very well : really funny, but with edge enough to puncture pomposity and sanctimoniousness.

Here's one to start us off :

A drunken bloke, really drunk, stumbles into a Catholic church at confession time, not that he is aware of anything very much. He falls into a confessional box and dozes off. The priest on the other side coughs lightly to engage his attention. No response. The priest coughs again, more loudly. No response. So he coughs really loudly. No response - again.

In desperation, the priest wallops really hard and loud on the wooden wall between them. The drunk starts awake and shouts :

" 'Tis no use in the world a-banging on the wall like that - there's no paper this side, neither !! "

Veritas2

29-06-2011, 18:15

Well I enjoyed the joke Ikepot, it made me laugh out loud. Pity I cannot think of one at the moment.
I have however been thinking of my time at DLS recently and I realise I didn't like Sheffield. I have three reasons and I hope someone will make comments, particularly about my third reason.
I came from a flat area the other side of Doncaster and did not like the hills in Sheffield.
These probably seemed enormous to an 11 year old who wasn't used to them.
The second reason was the journey to school through Brightside. I hated the smell of the place.
The third reason was the taste of the water at school. It not only tasted awful it had a yellow hue. I never discussed this with anyone at the time but I am curious to know if anyone else had a problem with it. Perhaps it was just a different taste to the water I was used to drinking at home or there really was a problem.

Yellowrose

26-09-2011, 15:33

I must admit it sounds like a different school to the one I went to and that the brothers must have mellowed by the time I arrived in 1971 and left in 1974.

Brother Wilfred was still at the helm and although could be fearsome when needed to be I found him to be usually fair minded.

Brother Anthony ( Brother Spike) - Maths - A very nice guy.

Brother Maximus -Biology I think - No problem

Brother Serenus- l don't recall being in any of his classes so can't comment.

Brother Peter - French - Another good guy left the order I believe and was rumoured to be last seen in a soft top sports car with an attractive blonde
My husband attended De La Salle 1972-1978, the great Brother Maximus taught him history

peterern

27-09-2011, 18:55

Veritas - brought back memories though I was there after you. Mr Wilson was sadistic. Capt Wall a pervert. MacSweeney liked the drink and so did Tom Foley though he did have problems with diabetes. Still no excuse for his behaviour. Serenus was tiny but loved to wield his big cane. He was crazy. So was Bro Ambrose. Bro Cyril was ginger who went on to be Head at Liverpool. He could be nice but having witnessed his beatings he became sadistic and excited. Looking back now - no excuses. They got away with murder, though not all the teachers were like this. I still bear a grudge ( and some disturbing dreams) after all these years at having had to experience all this at the tender age of 11 years onwards Wilfred and Victor died within a few weeks of each other in the Btothers retirement home in Oxford.

Bushbaby

29-09-2011, 07:03

elvisbrother

29-09-2011, 14:01

wow this is interesting

Ridgewalk

29-09-2011, 21:09

I was there between 1965-70. Horrible place. Captain Wall once threw a shoe at me as I struggled to get over a high wooden box in the gym, caught me in the mouth and cut my lip open. Foley once danced, yes danced, around the playground either drunk or hyperglycaemic pointing at random pupils for throwing snowballs so that Bro Victor could thrash them with a cane. Alphieus loved to use that leather bat to punish pupils, as for Bro Gabriel, well less said the better. I tried to complain to my mother but was given short shrift as De La Salle was run "god fearing men"

RickyO

29-09-2011, 22:47

rossyrooney

29-09-2011, 22:58

wow this is interesting

You wouldn't have thought that had you attended the place matey.

It was a real eye opener and rather than instilling knowledge and tolerance into the pupils they chose to wield the big stick.

Bad memories of a bad time,most of the staff were either sadistic or crackers.

pattricia

29-09-2011, 23:22

You wouldn't have thought that had you attended the place matey.

It was a real eye opener and rather than instilling knowledge and tolerance into the pupils they chose to wield the big stick.

Bad memories of a bad time,most of the staff were either sadistic or crackers.

I was just down the road mate, at The Convent High School for girls. A very unhappy time for me, I couldnt wait to leave.

ikepot44

06-10-2011, 19:41

pjkay

07-10-2011, 07:29

Such a spate of new messages detailing the daily brutalities of the De La Salle Brothers at our school, back in those good old days . . . !

But what we went through was as nothing to what the top Brothers inflicted on other lads, through their unbelievable naivete and stupidity. Just put BBC and James Carragher into your search engine, such as `Google', and see if you can believe your eyes. Forgiveness is all very well - but think of the truly ruined lives you are reading about . . .

And these people, our Brothers, had a licence to supervise the teaching and development of tens of thousands of vulnerable young boys. Including yours and mine . . .

Yes the Notorious De La Salle brothers...But lets not stop there..The Sisters Madalene(?) Even a movie about the cruelty and mistreatment of Children in their care..
This era has gone now thank goodness and we who came through it ,years ago have learnt some strong lessons. Never again we say..but there are still some parts of the world where there are injustices... Lets move on and enjoy the present and the future.

hazel

07-10-2011, 20:15

RickyO

07-10-2011, 20:50

My brother, who started this thread, hated the De La Salle brothers all his life for their cruelty to the boys they were in charge of --including him.

But I found the Notre Dame nuns were strict but kind and always fair

hazel

My sister who went to Notre Dame in the forties says the same. Strict but fair. Sister Marie Claire was the head then I believe.

hazel

08-10-2011, 10:15

Hi RickyO

I went in 1947 and as I remember it was a Sister Marle-' Pierre' who was Head then, it's a long time ago but think it's right.

She was the one who interviewed me but must have left that year as when I started in the September the Head Teacher was Sister Monica.
I have a fleeting memory of being taken to see the notice over the outer door saying-------- Notre Dane High School for young ladies.

hazel

POLSKI

08-10-2011, 11:16

Andyman,
As a pupil at De La salle for 4 years, I know who I'm talking about,
Victor, Wilfred, Alpheus, Gabriel, Kevin etc. My reference to them being "Christian" brothers was generic, not specific.
I stand by my earlier point.
These were guys who hid from society because they couldn't get a girlfriend. Social inadequates with the freedom to bully kids. Most of them wouldn't have passed their teacher training had they not been members of a religious order.
I repeat...

Bad people

Bushbaby

Whoa ! What about Brother Spike (Anthony) ...top bloke. He'd turn a blind eye to us smoking in the potting shed right outside the brothers back door of their house.
If you got a wallop it's possibly because you deserved it. I received "6 of the best" from Wilf for 'wagging' school for a week. Wheal marks on my ar5e for a week and a bit but I didn't 'wag' it again. I don't believe they were bullies, just hard task masters. "Strapper" Grant gave me six on the backside, not because he was a bully but because I was chasing after another lad with boiling sulphuric acid in a beaker. I think I deserved a wallop for that one. Bro's MaxiMouse and SirryAnus were just grumpy old men as far as I was concerned but if you were prepared to get stuck into your work and tow the line then there was no problem. It's called discipline.....something thats lacking these days within society.

RickyO

08-10-2011, 20:47

bern351

20-11-2011, 15:01

I served 5 years (1952 - 1957) in Pitsmoor Penitentiary and I have to agree with Bushbaby 100%. Those bullies were hardly Christian. I will go to my grave unable to forgive them for the treatment they gave me and my classmates. I left that hellhole with nothing but Religious Instruction and Physics-with-Chemistry (an experimental sylabus with my year) so virtually I left with nothing worth having. I wasn't allowed to sit the maths exam (I never found out why) but after leaving I went to night school and flew through the subject with 100% pass marks in some of the papers, so I don't believe it was my inability for maths. I actually think it was because I came from a working class family and passed the 11+ that they gave me that treatment.

pjkay

20-11-2011, 16:02

I'm afraid you have the wrong end of the stick here.
The brothers at De La Salle were not the Christian Brothers they were the Brothers of St Jean Baptiste De La Salle.

Christian Brothers are an entirely different organisation and have had some problems with abuse, although you cannot judge thousands of men on the actions of a few.

so they were not Brothers?? and they were not Christian?? You are splitting hairs here,,,,,They were a bunch of morons,,

hazel

20-11-2011, 18:07

John was an 11+ boy and we had no money as children so everytime the 'christian' brothers kept him late after school, which was often, his bus pass was not accepted and he had to walk home.
From Scott Rd to Intake.

Bern351
He must have been there at the same time as you

hazel

scousemouse

21-11-2011, 08:59

Seems to me that you had to be some kind of monster/weirdo to be in some kind of religious order, the nuns were no better. I could weep when I think of what those poor children/young people went through at the hands of the perverts who who had the audacity to call themselves ' Christians'. I hope they all rot in hell.

bern351

21-11-2011, 12:41

Yes Hazel he was there 1953-1958. If you remember I exchanged a few PM.s with you about 2 years ago. As his birthday was later in the year and mine is early in the year it meant he was a year behind me through the school. He would have been in the same class as Ged Finnigan (Ged passed away a couple of years ago). Boys who came from a working class background having passed the 11+ suffered the most at the hands of those bullies. Going there certainly affected my whole life in a bad way and it has left me feeling very bitter and very anti religion. Those guys obviously didn't believe what they preached or they wouldn't have behaved in the way they did.

Tonyt

19-12-2011, 16:31

I have not visited this topic for some time and having read the updates I am not surprised by the bitterness many feel. However I still go to church, help the local priest out and occassionally read the lessons when asked. Why, you might ask, because my faith is bigger than the 'catholic church' and many who claimed to 'represent it'.
Yes, there were 'brothers' who did not qualify as human beings never mind christians. But there were others who represented the aims of their founder. They persevered with pupils like myself who did not value their efforts until I went into further education, no doubt like many others.
As for the representatives of the church, my own parish priest eventually came clean and gave up the job to live happily with his 'housekeeper'. I still occassionally see him and enjoy a friendly chat. I know of one Brother who slipped out quietly and married his ladyfriend the following day.
Life is truly very short, some Brothers will not be looking forward to their final day. We just have to remember the good times and friendships we valued and as many say 'move on'.

hazel

20-12-2011, 08:48

Bushbaby

20-12-2011, 09:06

[QUOTE=Tonyt;8386502 However I still go to church, help the local priest out and occassionally read the lessons when asked. on'.[/QUOTE]

Cameron has called for a return to “Traditional Christian Moral Values”

I guess that includes:

Stoning women to death for "suspected improprieties"
Widespread sexual abuse of children by all levels of christian clergy, and subsequent overseas postings to avoid prosecution
Irish and Italian nuns removing newborns from single mothers and sending them to Australia in the 1960s
Popes colluding with Nazis and turning a blind eye to the holocaust
Mass extermination of middle eastern muslims on a so called “Crusade” to find a non-existent grail
You know what you can do with your church matey :headbang:

Tonyt

20-12-2011, 09:11

I found this post--well first it made me laugh then thinking deeper it made me angry' they did not deserve to be happy with their so called housekeepers after living a lie for years and pontificating to everyone else in the catholic church not to lead a life of sin.
I can see why my brothers hated them and what they stood for

hazel

All the more reason for having married priests. The celebacy ruling did not come in until some time after the church got going. Priests have said to me, 'well you should know more about that, after all you are married.'

I believe it will be accepted in the end, after all how many married anglican clergy are counted a catholic priests now.

hazel

20-12-2011, 11:43

My sister kept her faith by that sort of reasoning, she said that the things she did not agree with would probably be altered to her way of thinking in the future.
I could not do this and she died keeping her faith to the end.
hazel

bern351

20-12-2011, 12:05

Well it seems to me that if the Priests etc did what they did they obviously dont believe what they are preaching themselves, otherwise they wouldn't have done it. So have proved to me that it's all bunkum made up to give themselves power over the masses (no pun intended). These people even had power over kings & still have some sway with the state. The church has so much wealth and power it's unbelievable. Christ himself was a poor man and a humanist. The church founded in his name is exactly the opposite.

pjkay

20-12-2011, 14:44

Cameron has called for a return to “Traditional Christian Moral Values”

I guess that includes:

Stoning women to death for "suspected improprieties"
Widespread sexual abuse of children by all levels of christian clergy, and subsequent overseas postings to avoid prosecution
Irish and Italian nuns removing newborns from single mothers and sending them to Australia in the 1960s
Popes colluding with Nazis and turning a blind eye to the holocaust
Mass extermination of middle eastern muslims on a so called “Crusade” to find a non-existent grail
You know what you can do with your church matey :headbang:
Yes you are right...if you believe in god and all that goes with it..do you just leave the religious dudes alone to there own way...I think so...God is a private person and you can talk to him without bull**** from the wealthy churches that leach on poor people who can ill afford the payments or the bad bits that go with so called disciples of Christ, i was brought up catholic and because MyMum was catholic i married in the church....I never went again and the local priest was quick to call on me with 52 envelopes so I COULD DONATE WEEKLY EVEN IF I DIDNT GO TO CHURCH....I know sick isnt it....i pray alone and am happy to do so

STUNMON

26-12-2011, 09:40

I expect many of the supporters of apartheid in your 'adopted' country' thought of themselves as good, moral, God fearing Christians!

Tonyt

29-12-2011, 14:22

I expect many of the supporters of apartheid in your 'adopted' country' thought of themselves as good, moral, God fearing Christians!

Having never lived there I cannot in all honesty know. However I do know countless christians fought against apartheid and paid the price for their beliefs.

I think we all agree that faith is a deeply personal thing. It is easy to knock someone's belief as it appears to 'sell' for the media.

I'm waiting to see the media taking great delight in the ' 100 monks and priests fighting in Bethlehem' to have the rite to clean the birthplace of Jesus.
Do they represent christian belief, I think not.

If you look for the good being done by Christian Aid, the Salvation Army and countless other faith organisations you will see the media conspicuous by their absence.

Here's wishing everyone good health and a peaceful 2012, all we have to do is look for the good in someone and try to help where it is needed.

pjkay

29-12-2011, 14:41

Having never lived there I cannot in all honesty know. However I do know countless christians fought against apartheid and paid the price for their beliefs.

I think we all agree that faith is a deeply personal thing. It is easy to knock someone's belief as it appears to 'sell' for the media.

I'm waiting to see the media taking great delight in the ' 100 monks and priests fighting in Bethlehem' to have the rite to clean the birthplace of Jesus.
Do they represent christian belief, I think not.

If you look for the good being done by Christian Aid, the Salvation Army and countless other faith organisations you will see the media conspicuous by their absence.

Here's wishing everyone good health and a peaceful 2012, all we have to do is look for the good in someone and try to help where it is needed.

Quite right My personal experience with the Bros De La Salle was years ago and long gone....Present and past christians have many records of good and wrong..The crusades and the sisters magdelane St Francis and Mother Theresa...so many facets...But to argue them all in the public arena is always sticky....Apartheid is the bad old past and the new regime is in charge.....Ask the poor and starving members of the comunity how they feel after nearly20 yrs of freedom...You will never win or get to the bottom of this one.....Go your way and make your day,,

Bushbaby

31-12-2011, 07:14

Having never lived there I cannot in all honesty know. However I do know countless christians fought against apartheid and paid the price for their beliefs.

What did the German and Italian Christians ,up to and including the pope, do to try and stop the holocaust?

Absolutely nothing!!

pjkay

31-12-2011, 09:12

I expect many of the supporters of apartheid in your 'adopted' country' thought of themselves as good, moral, God fearing Christians!
It is alll relevant....just depends on how far back in history you go...And your cut off of beliefs date....The original population of South Africa were the Koi San......They were slaughtered by white and black people. They were the oldest known residents of the land....They are now living in small groups(what are left of them)and in most cases in poverty and hunger....No body seems to ever mention them,,,Google the history amongst the many other issues....The North Koreans believe The First time ever 11 holes in one golfer is God.!!!! Poor old Joseph never seems to get a mention,despite his acceptance of the immaculate conception and the holiday accomodation he walked miles for,,,,Silly isnt it....You just need faith to believe all this.. I must now finally, at the age of 73 say goodbye to De La Salle College..The old place has had too much coverage already. Freedom of speech we still have...What we believe is up to us....

Joseph Read

06-05-2012, 21:44

While I was at DLSCS, 1945 - 52, my best friend, Chris, was late for school one day. He entered the hall while Br. Peter, the headmaster, was taking assembly. The door creaked and some boys giggled. Chris was summoned to the stage and received 6 on each hand. When his suffering had subsided, he was quite proud of holding the school record. But why did our parents put up with it?

Brian White

06-05-2012, 23:50

Why did our parents put up with it? They believed that their son was getting a superior education and a lifetime advantage. They were prepared to allow their son to be unfairly thrashed to achieve that aim. Also, it was an age when corporal punishment in schools was not only permitted, but believed to be beneficial for the recipient. We make fun of that idea now since we’ve alll seen the Monty Python’s four Yorkshiremen reminiscing about their good old days?

dafodil

07-05-2012, 07:32

Religion based schools are so unfair as they exclude most people who do not believe or contribute to their belief.
Apart from that I know people even in my own family who still pretend that they are good catholics so as they can send their children to these so called good schools.

RickyO

07-05-2012, 07:42

As I remember from my time at De La Salle the assembly doors were closed and the Head Prefect stood outside stopping all latecomers from entering. At the conclusion of assembly Br. Peter was first out and gave the strap to all boys waiting outside. There was no chance you could enter if you were late. If you were lucky and able to dodge the prefect you could sneek around the school and hide then reappear when classes started.

Brian White

08-05-2012, 03:36

Yes it was thought of by our parents as a good school, but it wasn't. Boys lacking skills in games got no help, only ridicule from the gym teacher. Brother Edward when I started and Mr McQuaid later on. Also, we got a funny version of history which showed Catholics in a better light than they deserved. We were told that without a passing grade in Latin, we could not get into college. What baloney. In retrospect, it seems that boys going to grammar schools anywhere else in Sheffield got a better education and were happier. Also, why were boys and girls segregated in Sheffield grammar schools? I know what it does to many boys. They are awkward and shy with girls later on. Thank you for everything brothers.

paulus

25-05-2012, 14:03

This topic is a fascinating find for me and a great insight into De La Salle as someone who didn't go there. I was brought up on Low Edges estate from 1954 and can well remember as kids we would often wander down Beauchief to play or go fishing at the abbey ponds. I well remember being told by other kids not to go to the De La Salle pond as the "rich kids" there would "beat you up and throw you in the pond" lol , however I did one day go with a friend and was stood by the pond looking at the fish when half a dozen or so much older boys appeared a few hundred yards away and started shouting and running towards us , I can tell you we legged it pretty quick. I eventually passed my 11+ and went to Rowlinson where discipline was pretty strict but nothing like what I see described here. I just wonder what you who were at De La Salle were told (if anything) about "us lot" from the council estate because as a kid it seemed a world away from us. I am now 58 , have run several businesses of my own and semi-retired looking after my wife but still have really good memories of growing up around that area.

Tonyt

26-05-2012, 14:51

paulus

26-05-2012, 22:21

Seems a bit strange to me as the school was in Pitsmoor well away from Beauchief. As to they're being rich kids this is a bit odd as most had come from the 11+ system, two school mates had window cleaner fathers, my own could not afford to get my shoes repaired so I had to borrow a pair.
I'm glad to hear things have worked out for you, many of us only started to be conscience when we left school.

Hi Tony , not being a former pupil I was recounting what I knew from locals around the area and like you I grew up in a world of hand-me-downs and make-do and mend , the only problems my upbringing gave me was a poor credit rating because I always refused to have credit lol. Back to De La Salle , after doing a little research , De La Salle college was indeed at Beauchief Hall , near Abbeydale golf course (where I went caddying for pocket money) in some form or other.

In 1958, the Hall and grounds were acquired by the De La Salle College.
http://www.delasallesheffield.co.uk/history.asp (site for former pupils and club members)

Beauchief Hall is a large manor house on the high ground of Beauchief. Since 1923 the house has served as a school (De la Salle College), a hotel and currently as headquarters of a software company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauchief_and_Greenhill#Beauchief_Hall

In 1958 the Hall, gardens and grounds were purchased by De La Salle College for use as a school.
http://www.parksandgardens.ac.uk/index2.php?option=com_parksandgardens&task=site&id=4474&preview=1&Itemid=chool.

Veritas

27-05-2012, 07:55

Hi Tony , not being a former pupil I was recounting what I knew from locals around the area and like you I grew up in a world of hand-me-downs and make-do and mend , the only problems my upbringing gave me was a poor credit rating because I always refused to have credit lol. Back to De La Salle , after doing a little research , De La Salle college was indeed at Beauchief Hall , near Abbeydale golf course (where I went caddying for pocket money) in some form or other.

In 1958, the Hall and grounds were acquired by the De La Salle College.
http://www.delasallesheffield.co.uk/history.asp (site for former pupils and club members)

Beauchief Hall is a large manor house on the high ground of Beauchief. Since 1923 the house has served as a school (De la Salle College), a hotel and currently as headquarters of a software company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauchief_and_Greenhill#Beauchief_Hall

In 1958 the Hall, gardens and grounds were purchased by De La Salle College for use as a school.
http://www.parksandgardens.ac.uk/index2.php?option=com_parksandgardens&task=site&id=4474&preview=1&Itemid=chool.I went to De La Salle from 1971 to 1974 via the 13+ entry system following the abolition of the 11+ three years earlier. There were other pupils their that came fee paying or via scholarship ESP from out of town with many coming fro
Chesterfield, Barnsley and Rotherham. The first two years were schooled at Beauchief Hall with the third year to the upper sixth being based at Scott Road. The schools playing fields were also at Beauchief Hall and depending on the day of the week coaches would ferry each years pupils from Scott Road to Beauchief Hall or in my case onwards to the Arnold Palmer Driving Range for games after oon.