I'm not sure how to start this topic, i'm after some advice, but i'll outline why first.

I was looking for drafts in the living room the other day, so I had a look up the inside of the chimney (obviously the first place to look ;) ).
Anyway, I discovered that the inside of the chimney breast is wallpapered, and that the ceiling of the room runs through it!
It's an electric fire, so obviously doesn't need the chimney.

However, the fact that it's wallpapered and has a ceiling suggests that it's been taken down at some point. And then for some reason rebuilt.
I checked and realised that the front of the breast is actually just plasterboard. Although the sides are brick and have presumably either been built back up or never came down.

This is in the living room.

There are brick supports in teh cellar directly below the chimney breast, which I assume are to support the weight. However large sections of the top of these supports have been removed.

There is still a brick chimney breast in the bedroom above the living room.
There is at least a partial chimney breast in the attic (although my measurements suggest that 3 inches on one side may have been removed).
There is still a chimney breast above it all.
Presumably, all that weight should be resting on the supports in the cellar, but obviously isn't since parts of them are missing.

My question, having said all that, is whether the survey of the house should have highlighted any of this as an issue?
And how much of an issue is it, should I worrying abuot my chimney stack coming through the roof?

i think if you had the full structural survey done then yes it should have highlighted it,but there are about three different surveys you can have,if i were you i would contact the solicitor who dealt with your purchase,and i would certainly have it looked at professionaly,very worrying for you though,is it structualy safe:confused:

I can't remember which level of survey it was. It certainly highlighted a lot of points, but not this one.

A simple visual inspection should have shown the missing brickwork in the cellar, and knocking on the chimney breast is enough to find out that the front is just plaster board.

I might speak to the solicitor, he's moved firms now though, so probably won't have access to any of the documentation.
I doubt he'll have much advice to offer though, the solicitors didn't arrange the survey, I think that was done through the building society.

I am a bit worried that it's not safe, I wonder if any of the builders have spotted this thread and have a comment?

if the building society organised your survey it will probably be a full strutural one,is there a time element involved,when did you buy,i wonder if someone has left a property knowing its dangerous,if you could pursue the sellers direct,just a thought:thumbsup:

If your building society surveyed it they will have just ensured there was enough value in the epropety to cover their loan, nothing more. When we had a bs survey done on a terraced house in Crookes thy simply measured the outside and didn't go inside.

It really doesn't matter what sort of survey you had, they all have small print which denies responsibility for any faults found subsequent to purchase.

As to suing the previous owners, it's caveat emptor every time.

It was the middle tier survey apparently. Still not sure what that is supposed to include.

Surely Max they'd be negligent if they claim to provide a professional service but actually carry it out inadequately.

Friends of mine bought a house on Sackville Road, had a survey done costing hundreds of pounds. Within a month of moving in they had fungus and mould all over the kitchen. It turned out there was no damp proof course and the surveyors couldn't be touched.

makes a mockery of a survey being required really.

Might find out the survey report and check the small print.

The other question, is what I do about it.

It may be that the weight is now resting on a floor bean instead of the brick supports, or it could be that it had a lintel put in inside the ceiling (if we're lucky), but then I don't understand why it was built back up after being taken out....

We'll have to do some exploratory deconstruction when we decorate the living room, ie rip the plasterboard front off, and have a good luck up in the ceiling and floor to see what's going on.

Originally posted by Cyclone
I can't remember which level of survey it was. It certainly highlighted a lot of points, but not this one.

A simple visual inspection should have shown the missing brickwork in the cellar, and knocking on the chimney breast is enough to find out that the front is just plaster board.

It is not uncommon to cover a chimney breast with studding and board over, had the surveyor knocked on it he could assume it was studded and no alterations had been made to the chimney.
If the top brickwork on the suports have been removed (cellar) i can only emagine this is to put in a lintol in order to remove the brickwork below but did'nt get finished.
you say the chimney in the livingroom has a ceiling, you should check under the celing part to see if a supporting lintol was put in, this would allow the front of the breast to be removed safely, as the lintol would support the brickwork above it.
As you have no way of knowing if the builder who did the work was competent i would still have a structural engineer have a look though.

Weird, - why remove a brick chimney breast and replace it with a false one ?

It 's possible steel supports were put into the wall between the ceiling downstairs and the floor upstairs, - but you would need to lift the floorboards upstairs to check this. There would also have been a fireplace and hearth-stone, probably of thin slate, in the bedroom which have probably also been removed.

I'd say the weight of the stack is the greatest problem, - but you could have this reduced to a stub if it's not shared with the property next door. The chimney breast should be tied in to the wall all the way up, which is perhaps why the two pillars were left downstairs ?

I would have a specific survey done, with the floorboards upstairs removed so the surveyor can see what has been done.

There are some weird things done though. I once heard that someone had knocked out the inner wall of a house all the way up to fit a fabricated flue, which was just nestling nicely in the cavity wall!!

I see what you mean about studding and boarding, i've that myself in another room to make it square and because it was the easiest way to make it look tidy.

It looks like the living room floor may have been replaced and the brickwork in the cellar chimney supports may be somehow related to that.
I can't get close enough in from below to see if there is a lintel in place or not.
Until the room is decorated i can't get a very good view to see whether there's a lintel in at ceiling height in the living room.
Most of my investigation was done by stick a camera into the fireplace and taking photo's up the chimney. If that was done though, I don't understand why the sides of it weren't taken out, as just taking out the front doesn't really make the space any more usable.

Nothing doing with the floorboards in the bedroom, it's just been decorated, carpetted and had a built in wardrobe put in upto the chimney breast, so i'm not disturbing anything in that room.
I can say that there was a tiled hearth area infront of the upstairs portion of the breast, although the fireplace itself had been bricked up.

It is shared, although I don't know if they have anything connected to it. I will check, they've certainly had the rear chimney breast removed entirely (we still have the breast in the rear, but no stack).

Anyway, any surveying that's to be done, has to be done from below. But since the ceiling will be getting boarded over, that should be possible by removing a portion of it to get a good look.

All good advice and thanks for helping me think around the problem (more is welcome if you ahve it).

The sides of the chimney could have been left in to provide the support for a lintol spanning the front of the chimney breast thus supporting the front of the chimney in the bedroom above.
It looks like an aborted attempt at making more room in the living room, realising it would be cheaper to span the sides of the breast than to remove the lot involving major alterations.
then they've made a feature of the open chimney which was probably covered again later. only guessing but sounds probable.

I had a survey done on my house the other week. 8 out of 10 people said they really rather liked it.

The level 2 report you've had done wouldn't look at anything structural. If the surveyor notices anything structural that they thought was a cause for concern, he or she would have recommended further investigation. But as has been pointed out, the terms of business agreement you would have signed essentially waives any responsibility they have anyway. In summary - surveys are good because they often point out things you may not notice, or not have been worried about - but if they miss something, you're fecked.

Have come accross this a few times during demolition, and been narrowly missed by a falling stack held up with nothing more than the ceiling, luckily it came straight down and missed us, makes you wonder about who does these DIY jobs.

When we moved in to our house there were two smallish metal brackets in the kitchen holding up the chimney all the way to the roof. It didn't look too safe. Got some builders to take out the chimney up through the rest of the house. It wasn't too expensive and increased the space in the rooms above by a considerable percentage.

It's not actually that expensive to get a structural engineer in to have a look for you. I used to deal with one who'd do a full inspection and report for £150 - he's based in Ripon though, but most independent estate agents should have the details of someone they can recommend. It may be nothing to worry about, but at least if you get someone in to have a look you'll know exactly where you stand. As they won't carry out any repair work themselves, you can be sure anything they tell you is completely impartial too.

This thread's two and a half years old - so what happened Cyclone?

Well....
When I got around to redecorating the living room, I ripped down part of the ceiling to investigate.
The bedroom hearth had been capped off with two flag stones, which were sunk pretty deeply into the party wall, but other than that the weight of the chimney breast was basically supported by a 3*3 which was loosely nailed into place. Based on some dates I discovered behind the fake fireplace this was done in the 60's, so it's been like that for a good while.
The brickwork in the cellar was doing nothing, or virtually nothing.

I've put a lintel in place, 2 in fact, and fastened them securely to the 3 * 7 (odd size) floor joists which run from party wall to party wall, using some 3/8ths steel brackets I had made at a local metalworkers. The chimney breast now has much better support than it's had for 50 years, the only way it can move now is if the entire house moves with it.
My living room now has no chimney breast, shame I didn't know about this when I did the bedroom, or I'd have had it all removed, to late now though as the built in wardrobes back up to it and I'm not paying to have them refitted.

Cyclone , could you clear your inbox please, I'd like to send a PM, thanks.