Hiya,

Has anyone else not got their income support payment today? Bit confused thats all, wondered if it was a mistake or not!!

Help please lol!!

Thanks in advance!!

I got mine today, i'd give them a call if you dont get it tomorrow. :)

Thanks missbrum, its actually on my friends behalf, she's had to go overdrawn to get food in and she's a bit worried about it.

Thanks for replying, she says she phone them tomorrow.

Your welcome :) :)

They tend to stop your benifits at the slightest thing now so she needs to becareful, it could a error on there part or it could be something like, she hasnt gone in to review it, not signed a form, change of cirmcumstances she aint told them about etc ..

Either way she needs to contact them and they are not allowed to leave her without payment, they could give her an over counter payment if theres a problem with the bank.

Good luck :thumbsup:

Perhaps if she got a job, she wouldn't need to beg off the Tax Payer?

Originally posted by cloudybay
Perhaps if she got a job, she wouldn't need to beg off the Tax Payer?

dont judge her, you dont know her circumstances there might be a good reason she is on benifits.

Originally posted by Mz_BaBe
dont judge her, you dont know her circumstances there might be a good reason she is on benifits.

So, tell me?

Originally posted by cloudybay
Perhaps if she got a job, she wouldn't need to beg off the Tax Payer?

soooooo easy to say................when your not there




wouldnt it be oh so nicer if everybody had a job

Originally posted by cloudybay
Perhaps if she got a job, she wouldn't need to beg off the Tax Payer?

I don't think you should be insulting people when you don't even know them or their circumstances or why they are on incapacity benefit in the first place, end of the day if you had a health problem and couldnt work and you were on incapacity benefit you wouldnt like someone saying it to you!!

Originally posted by cloudybay
Perhaps if she got a job, she wouldn't need to beg off the Tax Payer?

I have worked since i was 16 and worked really hard paying loads to taxman.

i work now but get tax credits and still pay taxes, do you consider me to be a begger off the tax payer?? if yes does this mean i beg off myself??

i get really angry with people screwing the system but you are judging this person witout knowing her circumstances!!

tinkabel..... do a google search, i remember reading some offices may be going on strike and payments disrupted!

Originally posted by yorksguy05
I don't think you should be insulting people when you don't even know them or their circumstances or why they are on incapacity benefit in the first place, end of the day if you had a health problem and couldnt work and you were on incapacity benefit you wouldnt like someone saying it to you!!

Perhaps you are right? Perhaps I have a health problem? Perhaps I would rather crawl to work than beg?

Originally posted by cloudybay
Perhaps you are right? Perhaps I have a health problem? Perhaps I would rather crawl to work than beg?

maybe you couldnt even crawl, maybe you dont see it as begging, maybe your too proud, or selfish to think were paying to HELP others, some are screwing the system, some ARE NOT

Originally posted by melthebell
maybe you couldnt even crawl, maybe you dont see it as begging, maybe your too proud, or selfish to think were paying to HELP others, some are screwing the system, some ARE NOT

Explain your knowledge of the Benefit System, other than claiming it?

Originally posted by cloudybay
Explain your knowledge of the Benefit System, other than claiming it?

cloudy you have ignored my question? do you consider me a beggeras i am claiming benefits, i still work and pay tax and have done all my life so am i classed as a beggar?

Originally posted by cloudybay
Perhaps you are right? Perhaps I have a health problem? Perhaps I would rather crawl to work than beg?

just perhaps you had an accident or got a bad illness and you needed time off work theres only so much time you can have off work before you have to claim for incapacity benifit, would you be classed as a begger then or would you live on nothing? Also if you was unable to support yourself would you be a begger then for claiming benifits? You cant judge anyone on benifits every situation is different.

Originally posted by savbaby
[B]cloudy you have ignored my question? do you consider me a beggeras i am claiming benefits, i still work/B]

You work Savbaby. I aim my vitriole at those who don't.

Originally posted by cloudybay
You work Savbaby. I aim my vitriole at those who don't.

ok i shall let you off ;)


i get angry at work when all these people claiming benefits phone up asking to change thier mortgages to interest only so they get it paid by income support as they income support will pay interest on mortgage.
i also get angry when they say they have missed any additional payments as they have been on holiday!!!

or at the single parents who say they cant work as they are single!!!

i am single parent and work 25 hours a week which is 9 more than i have to... yes i get help to do this but i still contribute to tax every month!

but theseare the blaggers not the genuine ones who need to claim

Originally posted by cloudybay
Explain your knowledge of the Benefit System, other than claiming it?


Why are you putting people down who are on benefits, alot of people who are on benefits are so for a reason, alot of people have health problems which stop them from working, and others get made redundant etc and have to claim jobseekers allowance.

Am i a begger then? i have 3 kids, 2 of which have cystic fibrosis and they get disability benefit and i have health problems and i am claiming income support along with my wife, we claim benefits because we have to, we have sick kids who need looking after plus i am too unwell to work, and my wife is pregnant.

We have already worked out we wouldnt be able to live if we were working, we wouldnt be able to pay childminders to look after 4 kids, we wouldnt be able to afford all the rent and council tax and all the treatment and prescriptions for our 2 kids who have cystic fibrosis etc as they need alot of medication as well as myself getting alot of prescriptions for medication so dont think we will be able to work until out kids have grown up, we are not on benefit because we want to be but because we have to be.

Originally posted by cloudybay
Perhaps if she got a job, she wouldn't need to beg off the Tax Payer?

Oh for gods sake, will you shut up and change the record. For your information you nosey g*t she is a single mother with a small baby to look after, the father did a runner, now if you'd like to sign up to look after her baby whilst she works, then PM me your address and i'll get her to come round. Now give the poor girl a break.

Sorry you have caught me in a bad mood, i just wish people wouldn't judge her for being on income support. What happened to the nice people of Sheffield Forum, where did they all go?

Originally posted by savbaby

tinkabel..... do a google search, i remember reading some offices may be going on strike and payments disrupted!

Thanks savbaby, i thought i'd read it somewhere that that might be happening, did a google search and nothing came up though, hopefully she should be able to get some answers tomorrow!

Originally posted by yorksguy05
Why are you putting people down who are on benefits, alot of people who are on benefits are so for a reason, alot of people have health problems which stop them from working, and others get made redundant etc and have to claim jobseekers allowance.

Am i a begger then? i have 3 kids, 2 of which have cystic fibrosis and they get disability benefit and i have health problems and i am claiming income support along with my wife, we claim benefits because we have to, we have sick kids who need looking after plus i am too unwell to work, and my wife is pregnant.

Pregnant again? At the Taxpayer's expense? Ever heard of Condoms?

How wonderful, the same arguments have been used without reason or evidence against the city;s workless thousands for more than a century!

Incidentally, Cloudybay, when a Tory councillor in 1921 claimed that the city's unemployed had found a new occupation, that of 'breeding children' to get state support, several hundred of the city's workless marched on his house, to demonstrate how their inability to find jobs and their suffering was hardly voluntary. Needless to say, he soon retracted his statement.......

Originally posted by tinkabel


Help please lol!!

Thanks in advance!!

Well the "lol" makes you sound sorta suspect:suspect:

Originally posted by cloudybay
Pregnant again? At the Tax Payers expense? Ever heard of Condoms?

Cloudy makes a valid point here.

Perhaps less time in bed and more time at the family planning centre might be in order.

Originally posted by TheRedWizard
!

Incidentally, Cloudybay, when a Tory councillor in 1921 claimed that the city's unemployed had found a new occupation, that of 'breeding children' to get state support, several hundred of the city's workless marched on his house, to demonstrate how their inability to find jobs and their suffering was hardly voluntary. Needless to say, he soon retracted his statement.......

What a profound statement. This is not 1921. It's a scrounger's charter, dated 2006. Keep breeding, get free rent and council tax. And a little tip, make out your sprogs have ADHD and then you will get even more money ! A simple question for all you benefit thieves? If the welfare state didn't exist, how would you survive?

Originally posted by Cliff Clavin
Well the "lol" makes you sound sorta suspect:suspect:

suspect to what exactly? :confused:

Originally posted by tinkabel
suspect to what exactly? :confused:

Perhaps cliff is saying that if ur friend is in dire straits what is there to laugh out loud about.

I am sick to death of people breeding themselves into the gutter and expecting me and my fellow taxpayers to fork out for it. If you want a child, pay for her/him. Likewise, I'm sick of hearing I can't work because................I work with lots of people dying of cancer/ heart disease...................get a job, otherwise just be grateful others support you.

Originally posted by cloudybay
You work Savbaby. I aim my vitriole at those who don't.

You rude, judgemental, narrow minded *****!

How dare you make assumptions about someone you know absolutely nothing about! I really hope that one day you're not incapacitated and need to ask for help....and that all your friends and family live happy healthy lives with all the financial security they need.

Your arrogance really is unbelievable!

Of course, there are scroungers in the system, I used to work in it, but there are also many, many genuine people who experience hardship through no fault of their own.

I admire certain people in my life who are unable to work for coping the way they do on the limited income they have....it takes discipline.

Maybe, you patronising James Blunt, if you removed your dark glasses and took a good look from your ivory tower, you would see the pain, the suffering, and the turmoil out there....

You know, one of the many lessons I've learned in life is that some people attempt to make others look small so that they can then look big.....in my opinion, all it really serves to do is to show them in their true light. I think the common term is a bully.

Remember, those who have a life get on with it, those who don't....bitch about everyone elses!


***Stagewalker***

I work very, very hard and pay a huge amount in taxes. I am proud to live and work in a country where the people who cannot work have a safety net provided by people like me.

Who knows; One day I might need to use the same net. (However I am providing for my retired future as well - so hopefully I'll always be a net contributer, but you never know).

I know that a certain element of young women, from working class families see having children as a state sponsored career move that will occupy them and keep them in regular payments for the rest of their productive lives.

I'm not judging this. I'm just saying that it happens.

Any decent society would care for and support people in need, thats why the benefits system was created and why i support the welfare state.

BUT! the current system does need to change, taxpayers like cloudy and myself are becomming increasingly angry when we see our hard earned money supporting the lazy, the cheats and the irresponsible.

Perhaps the phrase 'benefit entitlements' should be altered to 'benefit needs'.

If we had less scroungers in our society we would have more money for the genuinely needy, maybe we could afford to educate young people to a better standard and may be we could afford to clean our hospitals. Its not just the taxpayers that they steal from its the pensioners and kids aswell... there's only so much money to go round.

Now, before some of u jump on me for being a capitalist pig, i will remind u that i am a supporter of the welfare state and would like to view it as an object of national pride and example of our caring society... at the moment i am just frustrated by it and feel cheated.

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr
You rude, judgemental, narrow minded *****!

How dare you make assumptions about someone you know absolutely nothing about! I really hope that one day you're not incapacitated and need to ask for help....and that all your friends and family live happy healthy lives with all the financial security they need.

Your arrogance really is unbelievable!

Of course, there are scroungers in the system, I used to work in it, but there are also many, many genuine people who experience hardship through no fault of their own.

I admire certain people in my life who are unable to work for coping the way they do on the limited income they have....it takes discipline.

Maybe, you patronising James Blunt, if you removed your dark glasses and took a good look from your ivory tower, you would see the pain, the suffering, and the turmoil out there....

You know, one of the many lessons I've learned in life is that some people attempt to make others look small so that they can then look big.....in my opinion, all it really serves to do is to show them in their true light. I think the common term is a bully.

Remember, those who have a life get on with it, those who don't....bitch about everyone elses!


***Stagewalker***

Obviously a left- wing pedantic idealist who knows very little about the benefit system. How I wish my taxes should be wasted the way you insist they should be? Everybody is responsible. We all breed when we can afford to? We all claim incapacity when we are so ill we can't find any work? Or are benefits an altenative to work? Tell me?

Originally posted by Mz_BaBe
They tend to stop your benifits at the slightest thing now so she needs to becareful, it could a error on there part or it could be something like, she hasnt gone in to review it, not signed a form, change of cirmcumstances she aint told them about etc ..

Either way she needs to contact them and they are not allowed to leave her without payment, they could give her an over counter payment if theres a problem with the bank.

Good luck :thumbsup:

Does anybody else feel weird reading this? It's like entering the mind of a well versed benefit extractor.

Could this mindset be common?

Who are they in your comment? You sound like a customer giving off about a bank that is witholding your money.

Originally posted by cloudybay
Obviously a left- wing pedantic idealist who knows very little about the benefit system. How I wish my taxes should be wasted the way you insist they should be? Everybody is responsible. We all breed when we can afford to? We all claim incapacity when we are so ill we can't find any work? Or are benefits an altenative to work? Tell me?


Mmmm, just looked in the dictionary under 'Patronising' and guess what? It says 'Cloudybay'

I refuse to debate with you Cloudy - people like you are always right!

Go argue with your reflection!

:)

Originally posted by Deavon
Does anybody else feel weird reading this? It's like entering the mind of a well versed benefit extractor.

Could this mindset be common?

Who are they? You sound like a customer giving off about a bank that is witholding your money.

well lets get something straight first of all, i work and i claim no benifits at all i pay my own way. So dont be jumping to conclusions. Secondly i know how the system works alot because of the job i do and the information i receive. So before you open your mouth saying this that and the other make sure you know what your on about!

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr


I refuse to debate with you Cloudy - people like you are always right!

:)
Thanks for realising you can never beat me. I'm not the Narcistic one though................

Originally posted by cloudybay
Thanks for realising you can never beat me. I'm not the Narcistic one though................

Beat you? Is this a game to see who last the longest? What Stage Walker said is so true, your so far up your own **** that you dont even realise it.

Originally posted by Deavon
...It's like entering the mind of a well versed benefit extractor.

Are you in any way involved in the extraction of benefits for other people?

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr
Mmmm, just looked in the dictionary under 'Patronising' and guess what? It says 'Cloudybay'

I refuse to debate with you Cloudy - people like you are always right!

Go argue with your reflection!

:)

Now who's making assumptions?

If you believe you are right continue the debate, that way all forumers will have the oppertunity to decide for themselves.

how good is your arguement? I seem to remember reading of a town somewhere in the uk that had x amount of unskilled jobs available at the job centre and xx amount of people receiving job seekers allowance... perhaps you could research this and explain what your former employers were doing to combat the problem of the cheats and deadbeats that are killing a worthy cause.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mz_BaBe
[/'UOTE]
Go play ' Spot the the Donkey ' Child.

Originally posted by ole1
...how good is your arguement? I seem to remember reading of a town somewhere in the uk that had x amount of unskilled jobs available at the job centre and xx amount of people receiving job seekers allowance...


But the jobseekers couldn't give a xxxx

:hihi:

Originally posted by cloudybay
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mz_BaBe
Beat you? Is this a game to see who last the longest? What Stage Walker said is so true, your so far up your own **** that you dont even realise it. [/'UOTE]
Go play ' Spot the the Donkey ' Child.

i already played it and spotted the donkey...Here you are! :D

[i]/i]
[/'UOTE]
Go play ' Spot the the Donkey ' Child. [/B]

Originally posted by Deavon
But the jobseekers couldn't give a xxxx

:hihi:

lol

perhaps that is part of the problem... too many people too proud to push a mop or serve a burger.

Originally posted by ole1
lol

perhaps that is part of the problem... too many people too proud to push a mop or serve a burger.

Like my boss once took me to one side and said about him, his assistant and me;

"Look:
I walk the walk.
He talk's the talk.
And you...
Mop the floor."

Originally posted by Deavon
"Look:
I walk the walk.
He talk's the talk.
And you...
Mop the floor."

Or bend over and claim benefits !

Originally posted by cloudybay
Or bend over and claim benefits !

:o :o :o

Had to read that 3 times to make sure u weren't saying what i thought u were saying :D

Originally posted by cloudybay
Or bend over and claim benefits !

Somebody once said that to me... But it wasn't at work... It was at a bar.

Originally posted by tinkabel
Thanks missbrum, its actually on my friends behalf, she's had to go overdrawn to get food in and she's a bit worried about it.

Thanks for replying, she says she phone them tomorrow.

Anyway, back on topic...

Aren't automated bank credits of this type normally paid into an account shortly after midnight on their due date?

Your friend had all day to check that payment had been made and could have contacted the benefits agency before she was forced to withdraw money, knowingly overdrawing on her account.

I just hope we dont get a new thread tomorrow moaning about bank charges and please please dont let me find out that the benefits agency pays the charges... sadly i suspect they might.

sTaGeWaLkEr, agree with everything you said in your post. You're spot on in every aspect.

cloudybay, you are just a moron. Someone said earlier they hope you don't ever end up on the benefits system, personally I hope you do. It would be karma.

Perhaps if she got a job, she wouldn't need to beg off the Tax Payer?

For a start; the original poster quite clearly said "income support", not JSA. You claim to have an understanding of the benefits system so you will know the difference (both in financial terms and in respect of whether the applicant is likely to be seen to be actively looking for work by the Job Centre).

Secondly, this is South Yorkshire for godsake, I've lived in many parts of the UK and if you had said this in Buckinghamshire, Berkshire or London you may, perhaps, have somewhat of a valid point, but it's time for a wake up call here.. we have one of the highest rates of unemployment in the country. Let me point this out clearly to you: THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH JOBS TO GO AROUND.

Do you really think the high unemployment rate is due to majority of people in South Yorkshire being lazy? Your views stink of Tory ideals, which is ironic, because many would blame the Tories for the state of unemployment in this area.

The typical job for a person here without a degree (and for some who have a degree!), is answering telephones for some ultra-rich company who's headquarters are based in the South. They know they can get overskilled (for the job) workers for minimum wage. Answering telephones for a living on 12k a year (for a company that makes multi-billion £ profits), it isn't to everyones taste. Do you think they put the dogsbody jobs, paying the lowest wage, in the areas with the highest unemployment by accident or by design?

If you are in a high paid job perhaps you have a degree? Up until this year all course fee's were subsidised by tax payers money. If you include course fees, grant allowances, local authority payments, etc... students took more from the tax payer than people on the benefits system. Are they beggers too?

Working families earning less than 30k a year are entitled to Working Family Tax Credit, are these people beggers?

Pregnant again? At the Taxpayer's expense? Ever heard of Condoms?

Where the hell do you get off with something like that? That's a cheap shot and you know it.

Want to know the people who are most deserving of any type of benefit? Parents. Want to know why? (and this will sit nicely with your right wing ideals). Because you know all the little bas****s who break into your house and nick your Playstation? They are probably from impoverished backgrounds.

You make a point later about ADHD. It's has been suggested (again, usually by right wing leaning people, so you should understand this), that ADHD is a medical term associated to children who haven't had enough attention in early upbringing. So they overseek it. If this is the case surely you shouldn't be insisting that pregnant women and mothers are sent out to work in Mcdonalds?

If the welfare state didn't exist, how would you survive?

Probably by robbing you, so you should be thankful of it. Look on it from the other side of the fence, if you had a family to feed what lengths would you go to?

I work with lots of people dying of cancer/ heart disease...................get a job, otherwise just be grateful others support you

What a total crock of sh**. Are you implying that "lots" of your colleagues are currently in the process of dieing through cancer/heart disease? If that is the case, personally I think you should ask to be made redundant and sign on. I'd take benefits (inlcuding the impoverished life and middle-class social resentment), over early life expectancy any day of the week.

You know, one of the many lessons I've learned in life is that some people attempt to make others look small so that they can then look big

I couldn't agree more. Cloudybay, your posts have been nothing but self righteous, petty, pompous, twisted, arrogant, ego-fueled bullying of the worst kind.

To help you out I've included the dictionary meaning of "bully": "A person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people."

People who are bullies are typically suffering from some sort of inadequacy. Surely you've seen the spam advertising products that can extend it (yeah, yeah, it's a cheap shot, but "live by the sword...")? Psychologists would have a dream day with you.

Well, I was just going to have a go at dissecting Cloudybay's ill-informed and ill-mannered rantings myself, but I see that punk has done it for me and done an excellent job.

I dont agree with everything that cloudy as said or how she as said it but i do sympathise with her.

before you call me a tory... I am a life long socialist and would fight hard to protect the welfare state and this means speaking out against abuse of the system and over dependancy on it.

Life on the welfare state should be very difficult, it should not be there to make life easy its simply there to provide a minimum standard and benefits should not be seen as an entitlement but as an helping hand.

If you support the current system and its abuses you are encouraging the demise of the welfare state. It must be reformed before the right wingers gain even more support.

I am a life long socialist and would fight hard to protect the welfare state and this means speaking out against abuse of the system and over dependancy on it.

The main problem with this arguement is that the main dependents on welfare state most likely came from a welfare state background.

We are lead to believe that everyone has a chance in life. This is simply not true!

Whilst it's not genetically true to say that "life is a lottery", it is true in the respect of what you can expect to achieve.

I'm going to take the two extremes here:

1: A child of royalty gets a place in Eton (paid for), place in Oxbridge, gets a First and ends up an officer at Sandhurst. Expectations: The same as the parents.

2:A child who was brought up by drug addicted parents living in a council flat. possibly: impoverished, neglected and living in squalor. Expectations: GCSE results, A Levels, Degree, Highly paid, secure job (like those exist anymore!)

Personally I'd give higher regard to an unemployed mother who was bringing her children up with the right ideals from a bad background rather than an upper class, silver-spoon fed kraut any day of the week.

Peoples circumstances are never the same. In many respects, it is true to say you are dealt a winning or losing card when you are born. You can only do the best with what you have.

Originally posted by punk
The main problem with this arguement is that the main dependents on welfare state most likely came from a welfare state background.

We are lead to believe that everyone has a chance in life. This is simply not true!

Whilst it's not genetically true to say that "life is a lottery", it is true in the respect of what you can expect to achieve.

I'm going to take the two extremes here:

1: A child of royalty gets a place in Eton (paid for), place in Oxbridge, gets a First and ends up an officer at Sandhurst. Expectations: The same as the parents.

2:A child who was brought up by drug addicted parents living in a council flat. possibly: impoverished, neglected and living in squalor. Expectations: GCSE results, A Levels, Degree, Highly paid, secure job (like those exist anymore!)

Personally I'd give higher regard to an unemployed mother who was bringing her children up with the right ideals from a bad background rather than an upper class, silver-spoon fed kraut anyday of the week.

Peoples circumstances are never the same. In many respects, it is true to say you are dealt a winning or losing card when you are born. You can only do the best with what you have.

whatever the rights or wrongs of ur arguement are, we do not live in utopia... in an ideal world we will all be equal and we will share the work and the rewards.

is it fair that i go out to work everyday while others idle? of course not.

if you are saying that people born into the welfare state are likely to remain in it then is appropriate for society to support large families on benefits?

the cycle must be broken, that will mean hardship for some to safeguard the safety net for future generations, you know as well as i do that vast numbers of people on benefits are working the system and this breeds resentment and will eventually lead to all claimants losing out when the working population become dissolusioned and vote against socialism and its ideals.

REMEMBER PLEASE... socialism is not about the less fortunate in society being rewarded BUT the less fortunate in society being cared for. Do u care by supporting irresponsibilty?

Originally posted by cloudybay
Pregnant again? At the Taxpayer's expense? Ever heard of Condoms?

Funny that those reading your posts this morning cloudy, of which some are very harsh, do so with your post count at '666' :hihi:

Could it be related :D

I dont know enough about the benefit system, i've worked since i left school so dont know the ins and outs. However i do know from experience that some do commit fraud and cheat the system. I also think that jobs are out there but accept that many of them are low paid (not an excuse) with anti-social hours (i can understand)

youwhatref, i have a well paid job but the hours are awful.

you work for what you want. good, bad or ugly u should do whatever work u can to contribute to society before considering what u can take from it.

Originally posted by ole1
youwhatref, i have a well paid job but the hours are awful.

you work for what you want. good, bad or ugly u should do whatever work u can to contribute to society before considering what u can take from it.

Agree as i work shifts too ole1. But there race cases where people cacnt work i.e asking a single mother to work 5PM until midnight or a night shift.

My opinion is very similar to yours in that i feel a good percentage can work but find it easier not to. The point you made in questioning punk over being born into a welfare state is a good one. I am sure Punk is correct in that many children do follow the parents. You are correct, it is very wrong and cant be looked at as acceptable

whatever the rights or wrongs of ur arguement are, we do not live in utopia... in an ideal world we will all be equal and we will share the work and the rewards.

Agreed, this was once knows as communism. If the "utopian" ideal was ever politically viable it is almost now certainly destroyed by the Bolsheviks and succesive Russian leaders (especially Stalin).

The very word "Communism" is now seen as a dirty, anger inspiring, proletarian term by the the majority of western people. Which is THE classic example of brain washing the masses (never underestimate the stupidity of the public).

Before anyone accuses me of being extreme left wing I personally don't believe in the ideal. The reality of communism (in the "classic" Marxist terms), is that a controling power will always surface and become "the state". Name a Communist country were that hasn't happened?

is it fair that i go out to work everyday while others idle? of course not.

In a utopia, of course it isn't. But I think you would agree that we don't live in one.

if you are saying that people born into the welfare state are likely to remain in it then is appropriate for society to support large families on benefits?

Absolutely, completely and totally yes. We have the resources, technology and intelligence to feed, house and provide for every human being on the planet. If some chose to do less than others then they do not get the rewards that other people who contribute get. That *should* be capitalism, unfortunatly it isn't. 99% of the worlds resources are owned by 1% of the population, is that fair?

the cycle must be broken, that will mean hardship for some to safeguard the safety net for future generations, you know as well as i do that vast numbers of people on benefits are working the system and this breeds resentment and will eventually lead to all claimants losing out when the working population become dissolusioned and vote against socialism and its ideals.

Wooo there.... In the year 2006, when we have spent tillions sending people to the moon, developed the Internet, discovered fusion, sent satellites to the outer regions of our galaxy and understand the concepts of life, nobody... not one person... should be living in "hardship". Not one person on this planet should be without a meal, or a bed, or place to live. If we are so "intelligent" why are there people dieing through lack of water/food/drugs?

REMEMBER PLEASE... socialism is not about the less fortunate in society being rewarded BUT the less fortunate in society being cared for.

Doesn't sound like you truely believe that from the above quotes!

Originally posted by youwhatref
Agree as i work shifts too ole1. But there race cases where people cacnt work i.e asking a single mother to work 5PM until midnight or a night shift.

My opinion is very similar to yours in that i feel a good percentage can work but find it easier not to. The point you made in questioning punk over being born into a welfare state is a good one. I am sure Punk is correct in that many children do follow the parents. You are correct, it is very wrong and cant be looked at as acceptable

I'm pleased u agree mate, i was starting to think i was p***ing into the wind :D.

I think punks sentiments are admirable but misguided. Perhaps if we paid less in benefits we could invest more in education to improve the chances of the less well off kids.

we have come along way since the introduction of the welfare state, perhaps its becoming more of a cushion n less of a safety net?

Originally posted by punk
Agreed, this was once knows as communism. If the "utopian" ideal was ever politically viable it is almost now certainly destroyed by the Bolsheviks and succesive Russian leaders (especially Stalin).

The very word "Communism" is now seen as a dirty, anger inspiring, proletarian term by the the majority of western people. Which is THE classic example of brain washing the masses (never underestimate the stupidity of the public).

Before anyone accuses me of being extreme left wing I personally don't believe in the ideal. The reality of communism is that a controling power will always surface and become "the state". Name a Communist country were that hasn't happened?



In a utopia, of course it isn't. But I think you would agree that we don't live in one.



Absolutely, completely and totally yes. We have the resources, technology and intelligence to feed, house and provide for every human being on the plant. If some chose to do less than others then they do not get the rewards that other people who contribute get. That *should* be capitalism, unfortunatly it isn't. 99% of the worlds resources are owned by 1% of the population, is that fair?



Wooo there.... In the year 2006, when we have spent tillions sending people to the moon, developed the Internet, discovered fusion, sent satellites to the outer regions of our galaxy and understand the concepts of life, nobody... not one person... should be living in "hardship". Not one person on this planet should be without a meal, or a bed, or place to live. If we are so "intelligent" why are there people dieing through lack of water/food/drugs?



Doesn't sound like you truely believe that from the above quotes!

and who should pay? where is the line drawn... u tell me.

did we discover fusion, the galaxy and develope the internet thru the welfare state or thru work?

3 basics for sustaining life, food, shelter and health care... is that all that people have on benefits? no very many have much more. should we provide more than that? if so, tell me why.

Originally posted by punk

Wooo there.... In the year 2006, when we have spent tillions sending people to the moon, developed the Internet, discovered fusion, sent satellites to the outer regions of our galaxy and understand the concepts of life, nobody... not one person... should be living in "hardship". Not one person on this planet should be without a meal, or a bed, or place to live. If we are so "intelligent" why are there people dieing through lack of water/food/drugs?



punk you have some valid points. But we are going off track here slightly as yes people are starving in the world and it is very wrong. You are right in that money is spent on other things such as going into space, but i dont find the two can be compared but that's for another thread.

3 basics for sustaining life, food, shelter and health care... is that all that people have on benefits? no very many have much more. should we provide more than that? if so, tell me why.

Address all 3 points:

Food: Benefits only provide for basic nutritional diets (if you can call it than). When you are on a budget it is cheaper to buy high fat, high salt, low protein, low vitamin ready made meals. Not only is this bad for your body but it is bad for you childrens development. People on low budgets are the people most likely to eat at fast food resteraunts. You only need to look at the obesity statistics for the USA for proof of the damage that this cause (mentally and physically).

Health Care: I really don't even need to addresss this point. Check the news any day of the week and you will see X number of people claiming they can't get treated for serious ailments. In relation to this, I once went to the doctors (in Sheffield) with a real bad knee. I was given an appointment 3 years in the future??? Kneedless to say (sorry i had to get that in before someone else did), it had cleared up by the time my appointment came around.

Shelter: I left this till last for a reason. Do you really think housing in Sheffield is that simple? There are families living in bedsits, newly-born single mothers living in tower blocks, homeless people living in shop doorways. A few parts of Sheffield can not even be called "Shelter". Sure, they are houses in terms of bricks and mortar but to call them shelter would be pushing the boat out. BTW, i'm not blaming Sheffield Council, they do what they have to do with the budget they have.

thats the same for the poorly/averagely paid as it is for the unemployed.

Originally posted by tinkabel
Oh for gods sake, will you shut up and change the record. For your information you nosey g*t she is a single mother with a small baby to look after, the father did a runner, now if you'd like to sign up to look after her baby whilst she works, then PM me your address and i'll get her to come round. Now give the poor girl a break.

Sorry you have caught me in a bad mood, i just wish people wouldn't judge her for being on income support. What happened to the nice people of Sheffield Forum, where did they all go?

firstly what a crock of s**t!

im a single mum and i work very hard!! doing 35+ hours a week!!!

and i think youll find that the tax credit will now pay neary all your child care money!! so really single mums cant find any excuse not to work IMO

this coment has made me very angry
i understand you feel you are defending your freind and thats understanbable

do you work?

my life isnt a bed of roses by any means its bloody hard work bringing up my son on my own i understand she feels its immossable to go to work but it isnt !!!

Originally posted by katy1981
firstly what a crock of s**t!

im a single mum and i work very hard!! doing 35+ hours a week!!!

and i think youll find that the tax credit will now pay neary all your child care money!! so really single mums cant find any excuse not to work IMO

this coment has made me very angry
i understand you feel you are defending your freind and thats understanbable

do you work?

my life isnt a bed of roses by any means its bloody hard work bringing up my son on my own i understand she feels its immossable to go to work but it isnt !!!

You working 35+ hours a week is your choice, personally her daughter is young once and so she wants to enjoy her until she goes to nursery when she will get a job.

Now i'm saying this as my personal opinion but if benefits were paying you the same amount as what you would get working, would you still work the same hours and let someone else bring up your son? How old is your son by the way? Is he in school full time? Have you worked the whole time you were a single mum?

Originally posted by katy1981
do you work?


Although i feel this is irrelevant to my thread i wanted to let you know that i am currently on maternity leave, so yes i do have a job but no at the moment i am not working.

I just also wanted to add that did you lot ever think that all i wanted was advice and not to set up a mass debate?

Just let people be, if they want to live on benefits then let them, its their life not yours and if you really don't like paying for them, there's not a lot you can do except join them, what use is this thread going to be saying that they're all scroungers blah blah blah, it isn't going to be make someone think 'oh god, someone on SF thinks i'm a scrounger so i'm going to get off my arse and work' get real people, some people know no better than to live on benefits.

Hi,
this is my first time here, im tinkabel's mate.

All i wanted to know is if anyone has not been paid their income support this week. fortunatly i had a letter to explain what happened.

If it really is any of your business i am a single mum, my daughter has just turned one years old. I live with my parents and claim income support and child tax credits.
My Fiance left me 5 months pregnant..i had to move back in with my parents and he buggered off with some 16 yr old. My daughter was planned...my ex works full time and i was in college. i was going to take a year out of college (which was all agreed) and then go back to it.
Well now my ex doesnt pay maintenance (CSA are after him as we speak)
I can find a job while im on benefits, im allowed to work 16 hours...but there is no one to look after my daughter on a regular basis.
My parents run their own business and are out for the majority of the evenings /weekends and they work full time too.

So the only choice i have is to either upset my daughter who is going through separation anxiety by leaving her with a stranger when she has never spent a day without me, or stay at home with her, bring her up well and get a job when she starts nursery when she is 3-4.

The way i see it is that i am having 5 yrs out of work. BUT il be at work after this until i am 60+ so i WILL be paying back what i have borrowed. I am not "screwing the system" it was NOT a "teen pregnancy" and it was NOT "an accident"

If i was still with my fiance i would be living with him and my daughter (privately rented flat) and he would look after her while i worked. but you cant help how things turned out and you cant make someone love you.

So for those who have moaned about my mate asking a simple question last night....thank you for making me feel like kerrap about my life! i did not choose to live like this.

Thank you who replied suitably to this topic. i have now had a cheque through for the £50 i have to live on a week.

Originally posted by Km84
Hi,
this is my first time here, im tinkabel's mate.

All i wanted to know is if anyone has not been paid their income support this week. fortunatly i had a letter to explain what happened.

If it really is any of your business i am a single mum, my daughter has just turned one years old. I live with my parents and claim income support and child tax credits.
My Fiance left me 5 months pregnant..i had to move back in with my parents and he buggered off with some 16 yr old. My daughter was planned...my ex works full time and i was in college. i was going to take a year out of college (which was all agreed) and then go back to it.
Well now my ex doesnt pay maintenance (CSA are after him as we speak)
I can find a job while im on benefits, im allowed to work 16 hours...but there is no one to look after my daughter on a regular basis.
My parents run their own business and are out for the majority of the evenings /weekends and they work full time too.

So the only choice i have is to either upset my daughter who is going through separation anxiety by leaving her with a stranger when she has never spent a day without me, or stay at home with her, bring her up well and get a job when she starts nursery when she is 3-4.

The way i see it is that i am having 5 yrs out of work. BUT il be at work after this until i am 60+ so i WILL be paying back what i have borrowed. I am not "screwing the system" it was NOT a "teen pregnancy" and it was NOT "an accident"

If i was still with my fiance i would be living with him and my daughter (privately rented flat) and he would look after her while i worked. but you cant help how things turned out and you cant make someone love you.

So for those who have moaned about my mate asking a simple question last night....thank you for making me feel like kerrap about my life! i did not choose to live like this.

Thank you who replied suitably to this topic. i have now had a cheque through for the £50 i have to live on a week.

:clap: well said! Anyone else have anything to say or shall the mods close this thread? Think there's another benefits thread where the narrowminded folk can call everyone benefits cheats, dolers, scroungers and whatever else!!

Originally posted by tinkabel

Just let people be, if they want to live on benefits then let them, its their life not yours and if you really don't like paying for them, there's not a lot you can do except join them, what use is this thread going to be saying that they're all scroungers blah blah blah, it isn't going to be make someone think 'oh god, someone on SF thinks i'm a scrounger so i'm going to get off my arse and work' get real people, some people know no better than to live on benefits.

No, the system should be changed so that 'living on benefits' is an option that is so unpleasant no one will do it voluntarily.
It's our money that they are living on, and whilst I support the idea of a safety net to help people out, I am completely opposed to anyone being able to live permanently on benefits or being better of on benefits than working a full week at the minimum wage.

Claiming benefits is not scrounging. We live in a civilised society where those of us fortunate enough to be able to pay tax etc. help out those who for whatever reason cannot earn their daily crust. Then if ever the situation is reversed the same applies. Admittedly there is the hard core who will not work, but they will always be with us,and always have been.
As long as the person claiming their due benefit is doing their best to get out of that situation (been there it is not pleasant) who is anyone to call them a scrounger?

Originally posted by cloudybay
................I work with lots of people dying of cancer/ heart disease...................

Well I hope the insensitive arrogance you've displayed in this thread doesn't carry over into your job.

One has to wonder how you deal with people in this situation if you discover their predicament is attributable to an inapproriate lifestyle.

Originally posted by Cyclone
I am completely opposed to anyone being able to live permanently on benefits or being better of on benefits than working a full week at the minimum wage.

Me too, - well able bodied people at least.

The minimum wage however is obviously inadequate, or we wouldn't need child benefit, working tax credit, child tax credit, rent allowance or council tax benefit, - all of which are available to people who work full time, but earn a wage which the govt. deem is insufficient for their needs.

The benefit culture is inescapable for lots of people if they're to enjoy a reasonable basic standard of living. But benefits in these circumstances are arguably subsidising employers rather than individuals.

Presumably nobody has any beef about that ? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Greybeard
Me too, - well able bodied people at least.

The minimum wage however is obviously inadequate, or we wouldn't need child benefit, working tax credit, child tax credit, rent allowance or council tax benefit, - all of which are available to people who work full time, but earn a wage which the govt. deem is insufficient for their needs.

The benefit culture is inescapable for lots of people if they're to enjoy a reasonable basic standard of living. But benefits in these circumstances are arguably subsidising employers rather than individuals.

Presumably nobody has any beef about that ? :rolleyes:

maybe the minimum wage is not insufficient. Personally I'd say it's not too smart to have a child that you know you cannot afford to raise.

Originally posted by Cyclone
No, the system should be changed so that 'living on benefits' is an option that is so unpleasant no one will do it voluntarily.
It's our money that they are living on, and whilst I support the idea of a safety net to help people out, I am completely opposed to anyone being able to live permanently on benefits or being better of on benefits than working a full week at the minimum wage.

I said, many years ago, that there are a few of the folks who are on benefit, who are so feckless, that even if you were only given a fiver to live on, they STILL would not take a job. And nothing you could do or say would induce them to get of their backsides, and go into work.

There are others who have home responsibilities like children, or a sick or disabled spouse who needs looking after. That's fine.

There are also the people who are ill or disabled and cannot work.

A while ago I attempted to go back to work after a long period on benefits.

I struggled to work, even doing half-time hours of 18 hrs a week, but I fulfilled my contract, I did my hours and earned my keep.

However, I was fit for nothing once I'd got back home, it was a mammoth task just to prepare a meal. I'd arrive home, and I'd simply collapse in a heap with exhaustion. It was too much.

I don't believe those who CANNOT work should be penalised, but, yes, those who WONT work, if there's work available to them, certainly should be made to think twice.

This may sound controversial, but what about the introduction of the american system, where a single parent gets benefit for their existing children, but does not get benefit for any subsequent children during that claim period ( I say this so as not to descriminate against parents who remarry, and have a secod family, but sadly that mariage does not work out either?)

I suppose it'd also make people think twice about the efficacy of their family-planning. It would also go a long way toward weeding out the genuine single parents from the scroungers.

(The theory being that, if this 'theoretical' person is a single mother, what is she doing having six children in eight years, having claimed as a single parent from the outset? If she can become pregnant, and bear a child, six times, to the same man, then she can't be 'that' single, surely? -unless her name is Mary.... and she lives in Bethlehem...? ;) there has to be a partner on the scene,.. and then we need to be asking why he isn't being responsible for his offspring... please note, this is not a single-mum-bashing-fest there are many mums who are abandoned by their child's father, or have marriages that break down, I am talking about the feckless ones)

I accept that benefits are to assist those who need that assistance. "from each according to their means, to each according to their need!" as the saying goes.

They aren't paid out so that folk can simply breed indiscriminately, whilst the state supports them.

This is where the system needs an overhaul. We do need to look into why dependency on benefit is so commonplace. and to get the ones who CAN work working, and distribute the benefits more fairly amongst the ones whose need is genuine.

PT

Originally posted by Cyclone
maybe the minimum wage is not insufficient. Personally I'd say it's not too smart to have a child that you know you cannot afford to raise.

Cyclone the woman said she was with her partner in a privately rented flat and would have been perfectly able to support her child in the situation she was in. She is obviously not a 'career mother'. Now you must have some sympathy with that.

What about the dad contributing to the welfare of his child?

Originally posted by kathythebean
Cyclone the woman said she was with her partner in a privately rented flat and would have been perfectly able to support her child in the situation she was in. She is obviously not a 'career mother'. Now you must have some sympathy with that.

What about the dad contributing to the welfare of his child?

I do have sympathy for it.

I was arguing more with the recent assertion "if they want to live on benefits then let them, its their life not yours "

Which is completely wrong in my opinion.

It's a difficult issue as to whether new mothers should or should not return to work. Time spent with their parent is important for a baby, but equally, day care is available as explained by several other posters and it is possible for a mother to go back to work before their child reaches nursery age.
I wasn't meaning to suggest that this case was one of being a career benefits claimant though.

I see, in that case I apologise.

I do have sympathy for this woman - to have planned a family and have it all fall through, and then to be labelled a dole scrounger so freely by so many people. Such nasty comments like "having a baby at the taxpayers expense" "less time in bed and more time at work" - like the sun shines out of their arses.

I don't see that she is having an easy time or a free ride. It is obviously not a good time of her life and she has said she didn't plan to end up in her situation. She is planning to get back to work and make up her tax contributions when her child is a little bit older and I see no problem with that.

I think there should be better support of people to get back to work. A lot of people, when on the dole, feel down and disillusioned - I know I did. I lost my self-confidence and motivation, what with having nothing to do all day.

The jobs offered at the Job Centre are a joke. There needs to be better links to other services and agencies from the Jobcentre and more constructive help for people who are unemployed.

Treat people like scroungers and all you do is further deplete their self-esteem.

The old adage of 'I'd be no better of if I was working' is symptomatic of people who can't see the benefit of working - not just for the money, but because it gets you *doing* something with your life.

Chicken Monkey x

To Cloudybay:

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr
You know, one of the many lessons I've learned in life is that some people attempt to make others look small, so that they can then look big. In my opinion, all it really serves to do is to show them in their true light. I think the common term is a bully.

Remember, those who have a life get on with it, those who don't....bitch about everyone elses!

***Stagewalker***

I won't allow you to bully me or diminish my character, Cloudy, so type away! Do whatever you want, your words have absolutely no impact on my life or who I am :)

But perhaps you should redirect your anger towards someone else? Maybe a therapist...where it belongs.

***********************

Cheers Punk for your support :)

***********************

To Ole,

It's all about choice really.

Regarding the forum, I refuse to continually bang my head against a brick wall. Some think I'm wrong all the time, some think I'm right all the time. Some think I'm right some of the time, but then wrong on other occasions. Some think I'm wonderful, some think i'm a t**t.........it's a bit like real life really. But that's ok, because I don't actually worry too much about what others think of me or my opinions - they're mine, and that's what makes them special.

I don't expect people to always agree with me. I'm intelligent enough to know that we all have to be unique beings with our own belief systems and value bases.

I don't seek my critic's approval or indeed yours. I don't feel the need to debate publically on the forum until I'm at the end of my tether, and allow complete strangers to analyse, attack, and devalue my beliefs and opinions to such a point that they feel worthless.

We can't all be right, but we can be right for us.

I've said my point, certain people disagreed, that's fine.

:)

***Stagewalker***

My post saying leave them to it is because it cannot be changed by a few people whinging!

I agree that any able bodied person should be made to work BUT the minimum wage is rubbish so as a single mother to be able to afford a roof over your head, food in the cupboard, childcare and travel expenses, you'd be worse off than on benefits thats all i'm saying.

JSA's should have a limit, you should be allowed to claim for say 6 months and if you haven't found a job in that time period then you should be given a job or get no more benefits.

There are genuine lazy people out there who just simply do not want to work, slate them not a single mother who is doing her best raising her child on her own with no support from the father.

This country is in a bad way if you can easily slag people who are less fortunate than yourself off when they are contributing by bringing up the next generation in a happy environment. You seem to think it's ok to slag them off as they pay nothing into this country, now how do you know she hasn't worked full time since leaving school, therefore having paid a good few years worth of tax etc, surely she should be allowed to have a break to bring up her daughter or do u begrudge that too?

Surely the problem lies with the government, not the people on benefits, you have to remember you're supporting people on JSA's as well as IS but also the poor people who have fled their native countries, do you slag them too for sitting on their arses all day doing nothing or is that ok in your eyes?

This post is aimed at the narrowminded few who just can't help but slag people on benefits off.

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr


To Ole,

It's all about choice really.

Regarding the forum, I refuse to continually bang my head against a brick wall. Some think I'm wrong all the time, some think I'm right all the time. Some think I'm right some of the time, but then wrong on other occasions. Some think I'm wonderful, some think i'm a t**t.........it's a bit like real life really. But that's ok, because I don't actually worry too much about what others think of me or my opinions - they're mine, and that's what makes them special.

I don't expect people to always agree with me. I'm intelligent enough to know that we all have to be unique beings with our own belief systems and value bases.

I don't seek my critic's approval or indeed yours. I don't feel the need to debate publically on the forum until I'm at the end of my tether, and allow complete strangers to analyse, attack, and devalue my beliefs and opinions to such a point that they feel worthless.

We can't all be right, but we can be right for us.

I've said my point, certain people disagreed, that's fine.

:)

***Stagewalker***

It is indeed fine stagewalker. When people disagree with you u have 2 options... 1, argue your case and maybe change peoples views for the better/worse.... 2, pick up ur ball and go home.

You are entitled to state your views on this board and when u do we are entitled to debate and challenge them, this is a disscussion board, we discuss.

It sounds to me you feel victimised, i asked valid questions about your arguement. If you do not want your opinions to be questioned then dont discuss them in public.

I am really struggling to understand why u feel so aggreived, maybe it is because that you say ur opinions and beleifs may feel worthless... does this mean u may no longer beleive them? that suggests they were not as strongly held as perhaps u thought and as i disagree with you i think thats a good thing.

EDIT: My next question to you...

Do you think the welfare state was introduced without debate, without challenging opinions and beleifs?

Originally posted by cloudybay
Explain your knowledge of the Benefit System, other than claiming it?

its not about knowing the system

its about respect for people, knowing not all people on it are "sponging", its about giving people the benefit of the doubt, its about knowing some people ARE too ill to work, its about understanding SOME people are worse off than myself (even when i was on the dole there is), its about not slagging people off you dont know or understand, its about not being selfish and living in your own little world, its about learning to be tolerant of others (yes even the unemployed, homeless)

I refuse to continually bang my head against a brick wall. Some think I'm wrong all the time, some think I'm right all the time. Some think I'm right some of the time, but then wrong on other occasions. Some think I'm wonderful, some think i'm a t**t.........it's a bit like real life really. But that's ok, because I don't actually worry too much about what others think of me or my opinions - they're mine, and that's what makes them special.

I don't expect people to always agree with me. I'm intelligent enough to know that we all have to be unique beings with our own belief systems and value bases

Try reading this section again, Ole!

Regards

***Stagewalker***

I agree with u melt.

Thats why i have been arguing that the system needs reform to ensure it continues, people will not tolerate the abuses forever and then it will be the genuine needy that suffer the most.

I have read that section again stagewalker, and u still haven't answered any of my questions.

Are you seriously saying we should just accept what you say because you beleive it?

Perhaps we should just accept everyones beleifs then, including the likes of mugabe and pinochet and thatcher.

'I have read that section again stagewalker, and u still haven't answered any of my questions'

I don't want to answer any of your questions Ole! End of!

If you and I were sat in a room, I would gladly debate issues with you. But I refuse to spend eighteen hours a day on S.F defending my thoughts and perspectives. For every reply I post, another nine come up with a different response...where does it all end? There is life beyond S.F ya know...:P

Read back through the whole thread - I was having a go at someone who was having a go at a poster who asked a reasonable question.

Let it go my friend

:)

I think he's picked up his ball folks :D

Sorry to interupt folks, but has anyone given the lady in question any sound advice. I suggest that she contacts the benefits office first thing tomorrow, if her money has not been paid. Last week someone I know didn'y get paid, and when they rang it was found that their claim had been stopped in error. Their money was in the bank 2 hours later.

Originally posted by tinkabel
You working 35+ hours a week is your choice, personally her daughter is young once and so she wants to enjoy her until she goes to nursery when she will get a job.

Now i'm saying this as my personal opinion but if benefits were paying you the same amount as what you would get working, would you still work the same hours and let someone else bring up your son? How old is your son by the way? Is he in school full time? Have you worked the whole time you were a single mum?


firstly i worked when i wasnt a single mum and i contiunue to do so now!!!

secondly i have no choice but to work the amount of hours i do as i cant afford to live without doing such hours!!

and finally if the goverment said hello heres the same amount of benefit dont bother going to work love

id still go to work as i am proud to say i do so!! not to mention the fact that its an honest way to live! and it teaches my son the value of hard work something hich this worl is sadly lacking it would appear!

oh and one more thing!

id love to send some time with my son but that fact is i cant as i have to work!! simple as that I HAVE TO! nice to know hat some people get to spend time with their kids though

my son is now 6 and is in full time education and as i said above i worked from him being 18 months old i also did college full time aswell!

so i know how much people want to spend time with thier kids belive me!

Originally posted by dollypeg
Sorry to interupt folks, but has anyone given the lady in question any sound advice. I suggest that she contacts the benefits office first thing tomorrow, if her money has not been paid. Last week someone I know didn'y get paid, and when they rang it was found that their claim had been stopped in error. Their money was in the bank 2 hours later.
would that have been a computer error?

Cloudybay and ole1, Ive read your posts and would like to say that... I completely agree with every single word you have typed.

I thought about putting my own point of view forward, but you've said it all.

Cheers.

katy, having a family isnt meant to be easy and when ppl have families it is their responsibility to care and provide for them.

Too many people think the state owes them when they have been unlucky... the state owes nothing, the state chooses to give.

You have a wonderful attitude towards work and family and ur lad will be all the better for it when he's older... he's a lucky lad.

You have my respect.

Originally posted by ole1
katy, having a family isnt meant to be easy and when ppl have families it is their responsibility to care and provide for them.

Too many people think the state owes them when they have been unlucky... the state owes nothing, the state chooses to give.

You have a wonderful attitude towards work and family and ur lad will be all the better for it when he's older... he's a lucky lad.

You have my respect.
the state DOES choose to give, doesnt mean EVERYBODY must think the same way and go to work instead of looking after their child fulltime
if somebody wants to look after their child fulltime they should be able to also, without being branded the scum of the earth for doing so
if somebody wants to work as well as look after their child well thats fine too.

"from each according to their ability to each according to their need"

Seems straighforward enough to me.

Originally posted by melthebell
the state DOES choose to give, doesnt mean EVERYBODY must think the same way and go to work instead of looking after their child fulltime
if somebody wants to look after their child fulltime they should be able to also, without being branded the scum of the earth for doing so
if somebody wants to work as well as look after their child well thats fine too.

I haven't called anyone scum.

I haven't said single mothers should go out to work.

I HAVE said that i admire katy for doing so, why is that wrong?

Whos responsibility do u think it is for bringing up a family?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
"from each according to their ability to each according to their need"

Seems straighforward enough to me.

Totally agree phan, each according to their need, not their entitlement.

Originally posted by melthebell
the state DOES choose to give, doesnt mean EVERYBODY must think the same way and go to work instead of looking after their child fulltime
if somebody wants to look after their child fulltime they should be able to also, without being branded the scum of the earth for doing so
if somebody wants to work as well as look after their child well thats fine too.

Thank you, finally someone who sees sense!

Katy, it is purely your choice to work do you not see that? If you chose not to work, you would be able to live, sorry but that is the truth, you would get the same benefits as any other single mother so please don't use the 'i have to work' line as you don't unless you obviously want a better than average life. I do admire you for working the hours that you do but you can't come on here saying that you have to work as if you haven't been given the choice to receive benefits.

i dont have to work so i wont? is that what ur saying?

Originally posted by katy1981

not to mention the fact that its an honest way to live!


My friend is living an honest life, she is not stealing from anybody, she is taking what she is entitled too. She will also teach her daughter right from wrong and be the best mother she can possibly be, just because you work and she doesn't, doesn't mean your a better mother than she is.

Originally posted by ole1
i dont have to work so i wont? is that what ur saying?

No i am saying that like my friend, Katy is a single mother, therefore she would've been offered the same benefits as what my friend gets to live from, so therefore she can bring up her child full time.

Originally posted by dollypeg
Sorry to interupt folks, but has anyone given the lady in question any sound advice. I suggest that she contacts the benefits office first thing tomorrow, if her money has not been paid. Last week someone I know didn'y get paid, and when they rang it was found that their claim had been stopped in error. Their money was in the bank 2 hours later.

Thank you dollypeg, she received her payment by cheque this morning, she doesn't know whats happening but she's just thankful she's been paid.

and when the child older and is at school will ur friend be able to work part-time?

Will she? some wont.

I will repeat that i am a supportor of the welfare state, i also beleive that the system will die if it is abused and taken for granted.

1st option must always be work.

Originally posted by yorksguy05

Am i a begger then? i have 3 kids, 2 of which have cystic fibrosis and they get disability benefit and i have health problems and i am claiming income support along with my wife, we claim benefits because we have to, we have sick kids who need looking after plus i am too unwell to work, and my wife is pregnant.

Originally posted by yorksguy05
We have already worked out we wouldnt be able to live if we were working, we wouldnt be able to pay childminders to look after 4 kids, we wouldnt be able to afford all the rent and council tax and all the treatment and prescriptions for our 2 kids who have cystic fibrosis etc as they need alot of medication as well as myself getting alot of prescriptions for medication so dont think we will be able to work until out kids have grown up, we are not on benefit because we want to be but because we have to be.

yorksguy please dont take offence but should you really be having another baby when you already have 2 children with disabilites? i know it must be really hard at the momentwith the children so whats it going to be like with a new baby and can you give all the children the time they require?

you argument about not being able to afford to come off benefits is wrong to be honest, there are special support nurseries for parents of families with disabled/special needs kids which are free and you would get childcare costs for the healthy child to go to nursery.

prescriptions are free until you are 16 so your argument there is lost.

i am not saying you should give up everything and go back to work i am just saying there is a support network out there for those who need it.

Originally posted by savbaby
yorksguy please dont take offence but should you really be having another baby when you already have 2 children with disabilites? i know it must be really hard at the momentwith the children so whats it going to be like with a new baby and can you give all the children the time they require?

you argument about not being able to afford to come off benefits is wrong to be honest, there are special support nurseries for parents of families with disabled/special needs kids which are free and you would get childcare costs for the healthy child to go to nursery.

prescriptions are free until you are 16 so your argument there is lost.

i am not saying you should give up everything and go back to work i am just saying there is a support network out there for those who need it.

I don't want to have a go at your views as you are right on some of the aspects but unless you have a disabled child yourself, i don't think anybody has a right commenting and suggesting that they get put into the care of someone else just because a few people think that the parents should work. I know that if my son was disabled i would want to be his main carer and therefore i would choose not to work so that i could be there for him day and night.

Tinkabell, who as suggested forcing the parents into work and putting the children into care?

Are you having the same discussion as us?

Originally posted by tinkabel
I don't want to have a go at your views as you are right on some of the aspects but unless you have a disabled child yourself, i don't think anybody has a right commenting and suggesting that they get put into the care of someone else just because a few people think that the parents should work. I know that if my son was disabled i would want to be his main carer and therefore i would choose not to work so that i could be there for him day and night.

i have worked with disabled children and its good to get them mixing with others as they enjoy it, i was not suggesting full time as the parents would never cope with full time work due to commitments but i was pointing out that the support is there for them. it would most likely be a good break for the parents even if going to work as it would be something different. they wouldbe the main carers just with some time to do something different... i would also like to point out these places are available even for those that dont work

i as a single mother actually enjoy going to work as its a activity involving adults! and i do feel i get a rest at work.

Originally posted by ole1
Tinkabell, who as suggested forcing the parents into work and putting the children into care?

Are you having the same discussion as us?

If you READ what i put i was commenting on savbaby's post about the special places where the children could go whilst the parents work, i never mentioned putting them in care. i stated that with the parents working the children would be CARED for at these special places. :loopy:

Originally posted by savbaby
i have worked with disabled children and its good to get them mixing with others as they enjoy it, i was not suggesting full time as the parents would never cope with full time work due to commitments but i was pointing out that the support is there for them. it would most likely be a good break for the parents even if going to work as it would be something different. they wouldbe the main carers just with some time to do something different... i would also like to point out these places are available even for those that dont work

i as a single mother actually enjoy going to work as its a activity involving adults! and i do feel i get a rest at work.

That's the reason i will be returning to work once my leave ends as i want the 'me' time but some people would rather wait until the child is older, that is their choice though.

As regards to your advice for yorksguy, i am sure he would appreciate a PM, i know i would, it's nice to see some nice forum people offering good advice for once!

I have already said in my post before that i will work when my daughter is in part time/full time nursery, which will be when she is around 3.
If my daughter was 6 yrs old like the lady above then of course i would be working...my daughter just turned one years old...the lady above (sorry i have forgotten your name) started working when her son was 18 months old and she said she wasnt always single...so why has she been negative towards me?
I dont like being on benefits and if i had the chance i would work part time at the moment but im not prepared to leave her with strangers. i have no family around that are available, and my friend who has a baby a few weeks younger than my daughter takes her daughter work with her, so im basically stuck.

Originally posted by tinkabel
My friend is living an honest life, she is not stealing from anybody, she is taking what she is entitled too. She will also teach her daughter right from wrong and be the best mother she can possibly be, just because you work and she doesn't, doesn't mean your a better mother than she is.

But having read this thread all day and the posting from the young mother in question I really don’t think tinkabel you can compare your friend with Katie as your friend from her own admission is still living with her parents and therefore wont have anywhere near the same outgoings as any parent bringing up their children and running a home.

I have made a decision not to start a family until I am in a financial position to do so as I would like to spend time bringing up a child but only if I had the resources to do so

Katy1981 you sound like you are doing a great job and I take my hat off to you
:clap:

Originally posted by tinkabel
If you READ what i put i was commenting on savbaby's post about the special places where the children could go whilst the parents work, i never mentioned putting them in care. i stated that with the parents working the children would be CARED for at these special places. :loopy:

When children reach school age doesnt every parent put their child into the care of others?

I dont see ur arguement.

Originally posted by Km84
I have already said in my post before that i will work when my daughter is in part time/full time nursery, which will be when she is around 3.
If my daughter was 6 yrs old like the lady above then of course i would be working...my daughter just turned one years old...the lady above (sorry i have forgotten your name) started working when her son was 18 months old and she said she wasnt always single...so why has she been negative towards me?
I dont like being on benefits and if i had the chance i would work part time at the moment but im not prepared to leave her with strangers. i have no family around that are available, and my friend who has a baby a few weeks younger than my daughter takes her daughter work with her, so im basically stuck.

why wait till the child is 3?? you dont need to work fulltime and probably wont when she is 3 as free nursery places are not all day.

my daughter is on full time nursery at the moment, she loves it.. she comes home with buns/crispie cakes and loads of paintings and things. she does almost everything the toddlers do and thats sonce she started at 5 months. you can ask anyone who knows her on here how well balanced a child she is and its not affected my relationship with her and we have "our" time. she has a regualr routine and is coming on great.

Originally posted by PatzB
But having read this thread all day and the posting from the young mother in question I really don’t think tinkabel you can compare your friend with Katie as your friend from her own admission is still living with her parents and therefore wont have anywhere near the same outgoings as any parent bringing up their children and running a home.

I have made a decision not to start a family until I am in a financial position to do so as I would like to spend time bringing up a child but only if I had the resources to do so

Katy1981 you sound like you are doing a great job and I take my hat off to you
:clap:

I am in the same position as Katy though, i am a single mother bringing up my son alone, i get no maintenence of the father, i live 70 miles away from my family and friends and so i feel i can comment more than other people. I will no doubt have the same outgoings as Katy and i also have a lot of debt that my baby's father left me with, yet i do not sit here going on about how i have to work to live as i don't, benefits do pay enough for me to stay at home with my son but i will be returning to work shortly as its the right thing for me to do, its not for every single mother though.

Originally posted by PatzB

I have made a decision not to start a family until I am in a financial position to do so as I would like to spend time bringing up a child but only if I had the resources to do so

:clap:

you may think your financially able to bring up a child whe you get pregnant but believe me it soon changes ;) :D lol

Originally posted by ole1
When children reach school age doesnt every parent put their child into the care of others?

I dont see ur arguement.

Perhaps because not everyone is sad enough to see this as an arguement!!

Originally posted by savbaby
you may think your financially able to bring up a child whe you get pregnant but believe me it soon changes ;) :D lol

LOL i think every parent on here will agree with you on that one!!

I will feel more comfortable leaving my daughter at 3 than i would at 1. i have worked in several nurseries - private and public, and some of the things i have seen are appalling. at 3 i am hoping my child can talk to me about nursery...at 1 they cant.

And after the things that have been in the news lately i would rather have my daughter by my side learning from me, i have only spent 2 days away from my daughter in her life (have never missed a bedtime) and i will continue this until i see fit.

Did you know that if i had a job i would have to have a loan from when my daughters father took me to court 3 times to see her...when i never stopped him seeing her. he still doesnt pay anything towards her-yet takes me to court. so i spose im even worse as i have had legal aid. and have a will now....if anything happens to me my mum and dad will have my daughter...as my ex isnt responsible at present. so i spose im double scrounger for having legal aid.

ive rambelled enough!

Originally posted by tinkabel
I am in the same position as Katy though, i am a single mother bringing up my son alone, i get no maintenence of the father, i live 70 miles away from my family and friends and so i feel i can comment more than other people. I will no doubt have the same outgoings as Katy and i also have a lot of debt that my baby's father left me with, yet i do not sit here going on about how i have to work to live as i don't, benefits do pay enough for me to stay at home with my son but i will be returning to work shortly as its the right thing for me to do, its not for every single mother though.

But you were comparing katy1981 to your friend who lives with her parents not with yourself

Originally posted by Km84
I have already said in my post before that i will work when my daughter is in part time/full time nursery, which will be when she is around 3.
If my daughter was 6 yrs old like the lady above then of course i would be working...my daughter just turned one years old...the lady above (sorry i have forgotten your name) started working when her son was 18 months old and she said she wasnt always single...so why has she been negative towards me?
I dont like being on benefits and if i had the chance i would work part time at the moment but im not prepared to leave her with strangers. i have no family around that are available, and my friend who has a baby a few weeks younger than my daughter takes her daughter work with her, so im basically stuck.

Hi km84 I have just read this entire thread. You have my sympathies and I just cant believe the dross some people are churning out because of your question. I dont believe you should have to apologise or justify any of your decisions and perhaps it's high time for some of these people to get a life. Although there is obviously a choice to situations, you've weighed up the various factors and taken informed decisions. What you do is really not any of their business.

What does make me extremely cross is this stuff about benefit frauds etc when many people PAID to do a job flaming dont and worse still they dont care about the mess they create for people they're supposed to be helping during the course of that job.

Getting benefits such as Income Support or disability benefits is extremely difficult and it is not awarded for no reason.

Originally posted by PatzB
But you were comparing katy1981 to your friend who lives with her parents not with yourself

The benefits my friend gets wouldn't be as much as what a single mother with her own home gets, they take that into account and so my friend will literally get enough to feed and clothe her daughter, and obviously some to pay her parents board money.

Originally posted by tinkabel
i am a single mother bringing up my son alone, i get no maintenence of the father, i live 70 miles away from my family and friends and so i feel i can comment more than other people.

We are all stake holders in the welfare state, we can all comment with vested interest.

Originally posted by wendygs
Hi km84 I have just read this entire thread. You have my sympathies and I just cant believe the dross some people are churning out because of your question. I dont believe you should have to apologise or justify any of your decisions and perhaps it's high time for some of these people to get a life. Although there is obviously a choice to situations, you've weighed up the various factors and taken informed decisions. What you do is really not any of their business.

What does make me extremely cross is this stuff about benefit frauds etc when many people PAID to do a job flaming dont and worse still they dont care about the mess they create for people they're supposed to be helping during the course of that job.

Getting benefits such as Income Support or disability benefits is extremely difficult and it is not awarded for no reason.

:clap: thats one of the nicest responses in this whole thread, thank you wendy, to be honest i'm sure people saw the 'income support' bit of this thread and thought 'yeah i'll tell them what i think and sod how it makes people feel.' Thanks once again.

Originally posted by ole1
We are all stake holders in the welfare state, we can all comment with vested interest.

You mean you see fit enough to pull some poor single mother to bits because she asked a simple enough question?!!!

Originally posted by Km84
I will feel more comfortable leaving my daughter at 3 than i would at 1. i have worked in several nurseries - private and public, and some of the things i have seen are appalling. at 3 i am hoping my child can talk to me about nursery...at 1 they cant.

And after the things that have been in the news lately i would rather have my daughter by my side learning from me, i have only spent 2 days away from my daughter in her life (have never missed a bedtime) and i will continue this until i see fit.

Did you know that if i had a job i would have to have a loan from when my daughters father took me to court 3 times to see her...when i never stopped him seeing her. he still doesnt pay anything towards her-yet takes me to court. so i spose im even worse as i have had legal aid. and have a will now....if anything happens to me my mum and dad will have my daughter...as my ex isnt responsible at present. so i spose im double scrounger for having legal aid.

ive rambelled enough!

legal aid is available for people on low incomes too..

i have had full week away from my daughter and also leave her on occasion for weekends with my mum,
i do understand how hard it is to leave them at first but then its ok, yes its entirley up to you whe you want to go back to work but i would rather know i am contributing to what i am gettin to live on and also know that my daughter is having some early education!

your not a scrounger anyway as your not screwing the system ....

good luck with the situaion with the father:thumbsup:

But you were comparing katy1981 to your friend who lives with her parents not with yourself

Ok maybe i should hurry up the council and get a flat too!!!????

I havent hurried them up as i dont want to take too much as i feel ashamed enough as it is being on benefits. If i got a flat it would probably all be paid for me.
I live with my parents to make myself feel a little bit better about my situation. If i lived in a council flat as well it would make me even more depressed about the situation.

Originally posted by tinkabel
The benefits my friend gets wouldn't be as much as what a single mother with her own home gets, they take that into account and so my friend will literally get enough to feed and clothe her daughter, and obviously some to pay her parents board money.

Paying rent/mortgage can hardly be compared with paying parents board!!!!!

Originally posted by tinkabel
You mean you see fit enough to pull some poor single mother to bits because she asked a simple enough question?!!!

I do not remember making any comments on any individuals, i have discussed the system and that it needs reform for it to be able to continue.

You are making this personal, not me.

Originally posted by PatzB
Paying rent/mortgage can hardly be compared with paying parents board!!!!!

My friend pays more board than i pay rent so thats not true, my rent in a council flat is £42 a week, his board is £60 a week.

Originally posted by ole1
I do not remember making any comments on any individuals, i have discussed the system and that it needs reform for it to be able to continue.

You are making this personal, not me.

OK you are pulling people who need benefits to bits, there not so personal now, either way you shouldn't pull someone to bits for asking a simple question.

Originally posted by tinkabel
OK you are pulling people who need benefits to bits, there not so personal now, either way you shouldn't pull someone to bits for asking a simple question.

And i do not beleive i have, i have refered only to the lazy, cheats and irresponsible.

I hope u are not suggesting this is everyone on benefits.

Originally posted by tinkabel
My friend pays more board than i pay rent so thats not true, my rent in a council flat is £42 a week, his board is £60 a week.

HIS BOARD????? You have said your friend is female????

But let’s just say that your make friend paying £60/week board is your single mother then do they have to pay council tax? Electricity? Gas? Insurance? Food? or is that all included???

That wasnt reffering to me, i pay £40 to my parents a week, this is for electric/gas/room (i share a single room with my daughter)
I buy the food myself, and things my daughter needs, and am left with nothing for myself.

Originally posted by PatzB
HIS BOARD????? You have said your friend is female????

But let’s just say that your make friend paying £60/week board is your single mother then do they have to pay council tax? Electricity? Gas? Insurance? Food? or is that all included???

I am not talking about the same friend, i am merely saying that his board is higher than a rented place.

...that is why the £50 i didnt get yesterday is important.
Believe it or not i work for my money anyway. i have to keep the house clean and tidy and make the evening meal for my parents, so i dont just sit on my bum all day. as my parents run their own business its important our house is kept nice.

ok ok people
do we really have to go into peoples finances?
its not a ****ing competition

your not a scrounger anyway as your not screwing the system ....
Thanks..also the good luck with the father...he is seeing my daughter weekly now but CSA are after him so he will be paying back into the benefits soon.

Originally posted by melthebell
ok ok people
do we really have to go into peoples finances?
its not a ****ing competition

Are you another hoping mods will close this thread now the problems been solved?

Originally posted by tinkabel
I am not talking about the same friend, i am merely saying that his board is higher than a rented place.


Which has nothing to do with this thread!

My brother paid £10/week for everything! He was lucky but that has no relevance to you posting

You were comparing a working single mom with a home to run with a single mom claiming income support and living with her parents. That was my point and I feel I have made it

I'm going to leave it on this thread as I have make my point, its late and I have to get up tomorrow

Originally posted by PatzB
Which has nothing to do with this thread!

My brother paid £10/week for everything! He was lucky but that has no relevance to you posting

You were comparing a working single mom with a home to run with a single mom claiming income support and living with her parents. That was my point and I feel I have made it

I'm going to leave it on this thread as I have make my point, its late and I have to get up tomorrow

No you told me you couldn't compare paying a mortgage/rent with paying board, i was proving that you could, in future perhaps you could word what you meant better and then people wouldn't get confused would they?!!!!

Originally posted by tinkabel
Are you another hoping mods will close this thread now the problems been solved?
not really, tbh i hate em closing any threads
just seems now theres the for people on benefits and those against people on benefits arguing, now its turned into a battle over who owes more, who pays more

tinkerbel / km84 you dont have to "prove" yourselves to them, ignore em, theyre just selfish people who live in their own small worlds

Originally posted by melthebell
not really, tbh i hate em closing any threads
just seems now theres the for people on benefits and those against people on benefits arguing, now its turned into a battle over who owes more, who pays more

tinkerbel / km84 you dont have to "prove" yourselves to them, ignore em, theyre just selfish people who live in their own small worlds

Thanks melthebell, they just wind me up so much, i asked a simple question about income support and it turns into this, wish they'd just let people be, no-ones fiddling the system here so i don't know what the problem is.

Originally posted by tinkabel
Thanks melthebell, they just wind me up so much, i asked a simple question about income support and it turns into this, wish they'd just let people be, no-ones fiddling the system here so i don't know what the problem is.
tbh its prolly deep seated jealousy, theyd rather be sat there doing nothing and getting paid for it, but darent

same with homophobes......really its a deep seated fear of thinking you might actually like it, be gay

Originally posted by melthebell
not really, tbh i hate em closing any threads
just seems now theres the for people on benefits and those against people on benefits arguing, now its turned into a battle over who owes more, who pays more

tinkerbel / km84 you dont have to "prove" yourselves to them, ignore em, theyre just selfish people who live in their own small worlds

I will repeat once again i am not against people on benefits, i am in favour of the welfare state and i am trying to argue that the system needs to be reformed.

Why do you refuse to see this?

Originally posted by melthebell
tbh its prolly deep seated jealousy, theyd rather be sat there doing nothing and getting paid for it, but darent

same with homophobes......really its a deep seated fear of thinking you might actually like it, be gay

PMSL maybe your right but bringing up a child on your own isn't easy!!

I've had enough of this tonight so i'm going to bed now!

Originally posted by savbaby
legal aid is available for people on low incomes too..



Legal aid. Dont make me laugh. It's an absolute myth to seduce people in to thinking that the law is accessible when it damn well aint.

Originally posted by ole1
I will repeat once again i am not against people on benefits, i am in favour of the welfare state and i am trying to argue that the system needs to be reformed.

Why do you refuse to see this?

The way i see it is, the benefit i have been referring to throughout this does not need changing. Everyone else has brought in the people on JSA's not me, income support is for people who for some reason cannot work (i.e single parents) or they don't make enough, these people aren't scroungers.

Good night!

Originally posted by ole1
I will repeat once again i am not against people on benefits, i am in favour of the welfare state and i am trying to argue that the system needs to be reformed.

Why do you refuse to see this?

youve said it at least 3 times BUT everything else youve said paints a pretty poor picture of people who ARE on benefits

without actually calling em scum, you paint a picture that theyre scum



night tinkerbel

Originally posted by tinkabel
The way i see it is, the benefit i have been referring to throughout this does not need changing. Everyone else has brought in the people on JSA's not me, income support is for people who for some reason cannot work (i.e single parents) or they don't make enough, these people aren't scroungers.

Good night!

I disagree, the whole system requires radical change to ensure it survives to meet the needs of all citizens when they are genuinely in need.

Originally posted by wendygs
Legal aid. Dont make me laugh. It's an absolute myth to seduce people in to thinking that the law is accessible when it damn well aint.

lol you know, back in the late 80s, i got taken to court (my only court appearence ever) for having a swearword on the sleeve of my coat.............i couldnt get legal aid cos it was too minor a crime
well it wasnt too minor to get me taken to court
luckily the judge laughed it out of court and the soliciter (howells off spital hill) didnt charge me, as we'd won the system for a stupid thing

Originally posted by melthebell
youve said it at least 3 times BUT everything else youve said paints a pretty poor picture of people who ARE on benefits

without actually calling em scum, you paint a picture that theyre scum



night tinkerbel

thats merely your interpretation, i have refered only to the lazy, cheats and the irresponsible... not all people on benefits.

I am repeating it in the hope that u may understand.

Originally posted by melthebell
lol you know, back in the late 80s, i got taken to court (my only court appearence ever) for having a swearword on the sleeve of my coat.............i couldnt get legal aid cos it was too minor a crime
well it wasnt too minor to get me taken to court
luckily the judge laughed it out of court and the soliciter (howells off spital hill) didnt charge me, as we'd won the system for a stupid thing

yeah well there's an entirely different ethos out there nowadays; it's called stuff the client especially if they're disabled. If you dont believe me make some time to sit outside the Advice Bureau at the Royal Courts of Justice for a few days. What happens in real life would destroy the misguided beliefs of some people on this thread.

Originally posted by wendygs
yeah well there's an entirely different ethos out there nowadays; it's called stuff the client especially if they're disabled. If you dont believe me make some time to sit outside the Advice Bureau at the Royal Courts of Justice for a few days. What happens in real life would destroy the misguided beliefs of some people on this thread.

How is this relevant?

Originally posted by ole1
How is this relevant?

the words chip and shoulder come to mind

Originally posted by ole1
thats merely your interpretation, i have refered only to the lazy, cheats and the irresponsible... not all people on benefits.

I am repeating it in the hope that u may understand.

How do such people get defined please. We have been advised earlier in this thread of the very few available pathes to obtain Income Support. As I understand the decisions taken to award IS, it is impossible to get the benefit without a bone fide claim; anyone who no longer needs to attend medical assessments can not be fit to work.

Originally posted by wendygs
How do such people get defined please. We have been advised earlier in this thread of the very few available pathes to obtain Income Support. As I understand the decisions taken to award IS, it is impossible to get the benefit without a bone fide claim; anyone who no longer needs to attend medical assessments can not be fit to work.

eh?

i have spoken generally of the welfare state and benefits in general, i ahve not specified any particular benefit.

surely u are not going to tell me that there is no abuse of the system

genuine people who need income support have nothing to fear by being regularly assessed surely?

It's the ones who fiddle, I support that p**s me off.

Like there's no such thing as a corrupt doctor , or a family friend doctor who's all to willing to help some people out.

People on all benefits should be re assessed and take medicals every 6 months

Originally posted by zebedeemouse
the words chip and shoulder come to mind

If u think i have a chip on my shoulder reread the thread, if u still think it read it again.

Originally posted by ole1
If u think i have a chip on my shoulder reread the thread, if u still think it read it again.
rofl get off the vodka and read how it should be interpreted

Originally posted by zebedeemouse
rofl get off the vodka and read how it should be interpreted

LMAO long day, missed the connection lol

maybe i'll just jack my job in...dunno why i bother graftin....could always do the bad back thing and then claim off the state.

apparentley now theres some system where we pay asylum seekers to return to their own country, and then when they have we fund them while there..but thats another story alltogether

You are forgiven, it`s late another good word for this time of night, connection!!