I've recently read that there are current plans to make Sheffield into a Non Smoking City. How do you feel about these potential plans and do you think it will happen?

According to the article it will start with 50 shops, offices, businesses and leisure facilities to voluntarily sign up to become smoke-free in the first year.


http://www.ehn-online.com/cgi-bin/news/news1/EpZZlAyAZVEzTgWpMu.html

Strongly against it. Even if I didn't smoke, I would support other people's right to do so, same as I support gay couples rights even though I'm straight. I also note that their 'evidence' has no source, figures or other proof... hmmm...

I am not a smoker but I feel it is outrageous to deny smokers the opportunity to have a cigarette when they are out and about. What the hell kind of society are we trying to create, a free one or 'Stepford?' Life is getting ridiculous in this country.

Originally posted by Lickszz
[B]
According to the article it will start with 50 shops, offices, businesses and leisure facilities to voluntarily sign up to become smoke-free in the first year.


Am I living in a different city to everyone else? I thought almost all shops, offices and businesses etc. had no smoking policies already. Or are they suggesting that smokers can't even go outside for a fag?

Nomme

You might just give them ideas and we'll all be outlaws when they've finished. I wouldn't give that plan too much thought as at the end of the day ciggies bring in the much-loved tax that piracy doesn't so I honestly can't see too many changes towards that happening. I reckon we'll end up with smoking or non-smoking buildings at the most.

I am a non-smoker

i smoke, and i actually support it. I think there's nothing more anti social for non-smokers to have to sit away from everyone else in resturants and suffer in pubs and bars. I think its a good idea to get people to cut down too, because they won't be able to use 'oh i just smoke as a social thing' as an excuse anymore!

A pint without a fag!!:o Shoot me now for christs sake. Whats wrong with just introducing a no smoking room/area in these places.

What next........banning drinking in pubs because of the effects on our health.

Idiots.

whats wrong with introducing a smoking room instead? why should it be non-smokers that have to be segregated?

A smoking ban comes into effect in Rep. of Ireland on 29 March. That means no smoking in pubs, restaurants and all work places. Can see the same happening here in the next few years.

the analogy with alcohol is flawed.

Everyone in the pub is there to drink, and if they choose not too no-one forces it down their throat.
Everyone their is not however planning to smoke, but the non smokers have no choice, so it is forced down their throats.

They have the choice not to be there of course. But that is putting the rights of smokers above the rights of non-smokers.

I support the right of smokers and all people to slowly poison and kill themselves in whichever way they see fit. But i'd rather not have to breath the remains of that poison simply because i happen to be in a queue next to them at the newsagents.

There is a fundamental problem with banning smoking in public places and that is that no one has the responsibility for enforcement. Take, for instance, the indoor markets where food is displayed in the open. There are no smoking signs at all the entrances but nobody takes any notice. You would expect the stall holders to object to having fag ash and smoke blown all over their products but no, they are amongst the worst culprits.

By all means, ban smoking in public, indoor, areas but also employ people whose responsibility it is to enforce the ban with the authority to issue fines.

/rant

they already exist, we call them "police".

Originally posted by pontious
A pint without a fag!!:o Shoot me now for christs sake. Whats wrong with just introducing a no smoking room/area in these places.

What next........banning drinking in pubs because of the effects on our health.

Idiots.

Its not the effect on your health thats the problem, its how your smoking affects everyone else health. People that smoke around other people that don't are ignorant and rude...No different to me farting my ass off around other people in public places..its just not pleasant..plus you stink!!

As for comparing the right to smoke in public with the right to be gay well the two are totally different. As I've mentioned smoking harms others around you hence is anti-social whereas being gay is just a lifestyle

Personally it bugs the hell out of me if I'm walking behind someone and their smoke is blowing all over me. That said, it doesn't happen that often.

I agree with above that there should be smoking areas rather than non-smoking areas, but lets be realistic about it.

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Strongly against it. Even if I didn't smoke, I would support other people's right to do so, same as I support gay couples rights even though I'm straight. I also note that their 'evidence' has no source, figures or other proof... hmmm...

What he said

Originally posted by Cyclone
they already exist, we call them "police".

Erm... and they're already vastly overworked due to the new (and often petty) laws that are added on an almost yearly basis!! Jeez, why do people get so wound up about smoking outdoors - it's not likely to cause passive smoking (cos you're outdoors), cars are more polluting, dogs**t on the streets smells worse and the queues at the buses on castle gate take up more of the pavement...!!!

p.s. Cheers FS! :D

I am not a smoker but I think its high time that smoking in bars / pubs / clubs should be brought under control, some of my local pubs have a cloud from about 9:30pm thats a good 12 inches from the ceiling thats just pure fag smoke - its nasty and I hate it. I go to the trouble of washing my clothes and makeing them and myself smell nice - then I walk in a pub and bham, it stinks can't breath properly and my clothes are gonna wreak until they are washed again.

I don't say ban smoking in public places but FFS lets get the air nicer to breath, and don't start me on tab ends on the floor, drives me nuts and so does chewing gum, well any litter in fact :(

I am completely anti smoking but I respect the fact that others want to smoke - I just don't wanna smoke at the same time!

Again, I would suggest that if the person in control of a property does not want to enforce a non-smoking policy in their building, that is their right. It is also the right of those who do want to enforce a non-smoking policy within their own building, to do so. It is also the right of each of us to decide whether or not we want to frequent those places, be they smoking or non-smoking.

Just my opinion.

Cosy:P

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Erm... and they're already vastly overworked due to the new (and often petty) laws that are added on an almost yearly basis!! Jeez, why do people get so wound up about smoking outdoors - it's not likely to cause passive smoking (cos you're outdoors), cars are more polluting, dogs**t on the streets smells worse and the queues at the buses on castle gate take up more of the pavement...!!!

p.s. Cheers FS! :D

Jeez, no one is getting overworked about smoking outdoors, except for one small comment about smoke blowing in their face. The whole issue here is about smoking in public INDOOR places.:loopy:

I am an ex-smoker and though I dont like being a smokey environment I think that the big problem is not so much the smoke but the lack of decent ventilation.
Have you ever sat in the non-smoking section of a resturant and had the smoke blowing on you because the fans dont extract but suck air in.

In case anyone is curious..

Where I'm from originally (just outside Toronto, Canada), all of the pubs and other confined public areas, are smoke-free. This enforcement began a few years ago, banning smoking in any indoor public areas, and pretty much expanded to cover all of Ontario.

It certainly hasn't reduced the amount of traffic in the pubs/clubs/restaurants. The enforcement seems to have gone down really well. As a result of the ban, I certainly felt better going to pubs. (Not so much for the health reasons, but because my clothes didn't smell like stale cigarettes afterwards). As someone mentioned earlier in this post, one of the main problems has to do with the ventilation. It's quite difficult for the smaller/older pubs to implement a really good ventilation system, so banning smoking in the establishment is much more effective.

i have read reports that when new york banned smoking in pubs/restaurants trade was 40% down.

its not like the sheff nitelife is vibrant at the mo is it??!!??

panics and chain smokes

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Erm... and they're already vastly overworked due to the new (and often petty) laws that are added on an almost yearly basis!! Jeez, why do people get so wound up about smoking outdoors - it's not likely to cause passive smoking (cos you're outdoors), cars are more polluting, dogs**t on the streets smells worse and the queues at the buses on castle gate take up more of the pavement...!!!

p.s. Cheers FS! :D

The article that started this discussion is about smoking indoors in public buildings. I don't care if people smoke outdoors.

And as it would be a voluntary scheme which pubs/bars/shops can join if they wish there will be places that will not introduce it, so smokers can go to those bars if they wish.
At the moment there are no smoke free bars or pubs, i'm all for a balance.
Blaming the problem on ventilation is addressing a symptom not the disease.

Originally posted by Cyclone
At the moment there are no smoke free bars or pubs, i'm all for a balance.


The Phoenix, High Lane, Sheffield 12 is no smoking. What a joy to be able to go for a drink and not to come out stinking and not to have to take my childs Ventolin for a rescue.

Smoking is not only massively damaging to your health and the others around you it is an anti social act and the sooner they make it law that all smoking in public places is band the better just think of how cleaner the streets will be how much better you will smell after a pub lunch they maybe small things but these are things that a non smoker feel ver strongly about

I'm with the poster who wants "smoke rooms". My Dad said that pubs all used to be this way and there weren't the arguments there are today between smokers and non-smokers. If you wanted a fag you went in the smoke room. Easy.

We make life much too complicated these days by bringing "rights" into it. Everyone you ask will have a different opinion of what those are.:)

Originally posted by cosywolf
Again, I would suggest that if the person in control of a property does not want to enforce a non-smoking policy in their building, that is their right. It is also the right of those who do want to enforce a non-smoking policy within their own building, to do so. It is also the right of each of us to decide whether or not we want to frequent those places, be they smoking or non-smoking.

Just my opinion.

Cosy:P

I'd have to agree with you there Cosy, it should be up to the person in charge of the property. It's then up to individuals to decide if they want to go inside or not.

It's wierd in New York, you can go to the dingiest, dankest, darkest dive bars and come out smelling completely smoke free. Not sure if I like that or not really.

Of course, they all have to have air conditioning, as well as being smoke free. A little over the top I think.

Agree with a total ban. Why should I put up with someone blowing cigarette smoke everywhere when all I want to do is get out for some 'fresh air' at lunchtime?

If you are that desperate for a fag, get some help and quit!

Originally posted by Cyclone
At the moment there are no smoke free bars or pubs, i'm all for a balance.

I completely agree - they're should be a balance, and I wouldn't mind having a smoking area/bar/room in a pub or club - no problem. I do object to a total ban, as people can still drive cars (polluting) which are as bad for the envirnoment if not worse. If they made a type of cigarette (which I'm sure they can if they want to) which didn't cause passive smoking, then I would pay more for it.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Blaming the problem on ventilation is addressing a symptom not the disease. [/B]

I didn't. But it would help cut down on the smell and the passive smoking problems whilst something else is worked out.

I cant stand people smoking around me (anywhere) but they have the right to smoke. A bit more common courtesy from smokers is all that's needed. Pubs and clubs should make their own rules up on smoking.

Originally posted by dinp
I cant stand people smoking around me (anywhere) but they have the right to smoke. A bit more common courtesy from smokers is all that's needed. Pubs and clubs should make their own rules up on smoking.

i actually find that non smokers love whinging in the smoking section weird eh

Get it straight - Only idiots smoke.


Then they want sympathy from everybody for their drug addiction, damaged heart and useless lungs. They also want help to get dressed or go to the toilet because they are out of oxygen.


Every smoker should be forced to spend one week on our cancer ward as a silent witness. They would see utter devastation.


Never defend smoking - it kills children.

Originally posted by JDee
Get it straight - Only idiots smoke.


Then they want sympathy from everybody for their drug addiction, damaged heart and useless lungs. They also want help to get dressed or go to the toilet because they are out of oxygen.


Every smoker should be forced to spend one week on our cancer ward as a silent witness. They would see utter devastation.


Never defend smoking - it kills children.

i completly agree with that, i really cant understad why ppl still start smoking even thought they know the risks and the costs..

as my m8 said "Isn't making a smoking section in a bar like making a peeing section in a swimming pool?"

Sheffield non-smoking cities, council got more completely stupid and against basic rights ?

lol... you guys are really going to luv me for saying this but i think its a great idea, i think smocking should be ban out right, never mind all these smoking / non-smoking areas, smoking is discusting its rude and its bad for peoples health so why should non smokers be subjected to the smoke of others.

lets face it since when has the idea of smoking and non smoking areas worked, the whole idea that smoke is going to stay in the area were its created is ludicruse, many a time have i been sat in a none smoking area with friends and still ended up having to leave to get fresh air, i've i've even had an asmer attact from ciggaret smoke wilst i've been sat in a none smoking area.

i think i've made my point.

iv noticed how even smokers arnt keen of the smoke.. when i was sat at the bus stop a womans lit up and the smoke started blowing in my face (the wind was facing in my direction) but of cause she didnt care. then another smoker came and his smoke started gettin in her face, she started frowning and spluttering :loopy:

Originally posted by Craigy
then another smoker came and his smoke started gettin in her face, she started frowning and spluttering :loopy:

Poetic justice eh ;)

Originally posted by Craigy
iv noticed how even smokers arnt keen of the smoke.. when i was sat at the bus stop a womans lit up and the smoke started blowing in my face (the wind was facing in my direction) but of cause she didnt care.

This is one of the many things that disgusts me about smokers. And was the lady even waiting for the bus? Or did the stupid cow just want shelter from the rain :roll:

People don't smoke for pleasure.

They are feeding a drug addiction.

It would do them well to see their Doctor.

Before their heart is too diseased.

Please.

I'm totally in favour of Sheffield becoming a non-smoking city. I would like to see as many bars/clubs/pubs etc be totally non-smoking. The more the better!

Originally posted by JDee
People don't smoke for pleasure.



Can't agree here unfortunately. I know people who can take or leave it but do it now and again because they enjoy it.

Originally posted by Lickszz
Can't agree here unfortunately. I know people who can take or leave it but do it now and again because they enjoy it.

yes, me for example. and not beeing allowed that occasional cig wuold really pee me off!
It's all about liberties, i want the exercise the right to smoke, if you don't want to smoke, don't, just don't force me to follow your beliefs.

Originally posted by Gregsd
yes, me for example. and not beeing allowed that occasional cig wuold really pee me off!
It's all about liberties, i want the exercise the right to smoke, if you don't want to smoke, don't, just don't force me to follow your beliefs.

What about other people's right NOT to smoke? If you smoke around a non-smoker you are taking their rights away. Ultimaltely a choice has to be made; what is more important the health of non-smokers or the convenience of smokers?

Originally posted by Gregsd



It's all about liberties


It's all about addiction, filth, stupidity, harm and a bad influence to our children.


No good comes from tobacco - liberty is just a lame excuse.


You should witness the suffering caused by tobacco.

Originally posted by JDee
It's all about addiction, filth, stupidity, harm and a bad influence to our children.


No good comes from tobacco - liberty is just a lame excuse.


You should witness the suffering caused by tobacco.

So your turning to insult then? I'm stupid and addicted then ?? That's a bit lots for someone who doesn't know how much i smoke...

If you don't like what i'm doing don't sit beside me, i don't see why i should not do something coz you've decided not to do it !

Originally posted by Gregsd



I'm stupid and addicted then ??



Exactly - and you know it.



How many will you allow your children to smoke ?

smokers really are ignorant of the affect thay have on others, it's a generalised statement, but surprising true in so many cases.

It's a real shame!

i think a lot of the anti smoking lobby are just jumped up control freaks whos only aim in life is to control:loopy:

You really think that? Wow!

yes i do im a great beliver in telling it how it is..................lets face it once the health fascists have got rid of smoking /if they can/ then it will be drink followed by meat eaters you mark my words quite scary really:loopy:

Originally posted by JDee
Exactly - and you know it.



How many will you allow your children to smoke ?

I'm afraid i'm taking this personally, i smoke two cigs for weekend, i enjoy, and i have all the will of the world to not to smoke during the week !

Now it's for my children to make their own choices...

Originally posted by panda79
i think a lot of the anti smoking lobby are just jumped up control freaks whos only aim in life is to control:loopy:


You sound like somebody I know from the Longley area.

Originally posted by Abdul
And was the lady even waiting for the bus? Or did the stupid cow just want shelter from the rain :roll:

i think she just wanted a sit down, she didnt get on my bus and she didnt look like she was waiting..

Originally posted by Gregsd
I'm afraid i'm taking this personally, i smoke two cigs for weekend, i enjoy, and i have all the will of the world to not to smoke during the week !

Now it's for my children to make their own choices...


You'd enjoy it more if you smoked none.


As regards the children - that's a cop out.

I watched both of my Grandma's smoke themselves to thier death. It is a filthy habit/addiction and I avoid smoke wherever possible. I don't want to control people's live, but I certainly want control of mine and I wish it to be smoke-free.

Originally posted by JDee
You sound like somebody I know from the Longley area. ............ thats good to know ..............:rolleyes:

As a non smoker myself, this would be an ideal situation but in reality it wouldn't happen. Look at the number of people who still use their phones whilst driving for example - only this isn't going to be enforced by law. Whilst I don't like other people smoke around me I can put up with it in most situations except restaurants - there I do think it should be banned, we don't want to ingest the smoke anymore than we want to inhale it, and it puts us off our food. Another gripe I have are smokers who walk around with their cigarettes in their hand not caring what or who they burn - one nearly got my daughter in the eye when she was about 3.

I think a better balance should satisfy all. Just to add I lost my dad to lung cancer but he got that 8 years after he stopped smoking but it wasn't caused by that as it was on the outside of his lung or at least that's what we were told.

i wonder if the goverment would raise taxes if smoking was banned ?:loopy:

Originally posted by panda79
i wonder if the goverment would raise taxes if smoking was banned ?:loopy:

Strictly speaking they should lower them since it should cost less if it produces less drain on the health service, but I bet they would be more likely to raise them as you say because they have regain the revenue from somewhere.

The revenue would have to come from somewhere else, or a new tax, drivers beware!

Originally posted by dinp
The revenue would have to come from somewhere else, or a new tax, drivers beware!

That's another story isn't it:D

They fleece the motorist enough as it is:mad:

Originally posted by dinp


I watched both of my Grandma's smoke themselves to thier death.


Yes - over 300 people every week have their lives cut short due to smoking, often very painfully.

Smokers should be made to care for them.

Originally posted by panda79


i wonder if the goverment would raise taxes if smoking was banned ?


Addicts often rely on lame reasoning. You should also wonder about the cost of treating smoking related diseases - before you die.

Originally posted by panda79
yes i do im a great beliver in telling it how it is..................

No - you're a great believer in telling us your opinion - no matter how laughable it is!

Well, it keeps me amused; long may it continue

:thumbsup: sorry, I meant to say :loopy:

Originally posted by Abdul
No - you're a great believer in telling us your opinion - no matter how laughable it is!

Well, it keeps me amused; long may it continue

:thumbsup: sorry, I meant to say :loopy:
my views are held by many .....:thumbsup:

Originally posted by JDee
Addicts often rely on lame reasoning. You should also wonder about the cost of treating smoking related diseases - before you die. actually smokers probly pay more in taxes so are entitled to health care ......... if i want to smoke i will:thumbsup:

People who actually wish to restrict the right of smokers to smoke full stop are acting in a rather fascist manner.

I have the right not to have to breath smoke in a public building. But that doesn't give me the right to tell people they can't smoke at all.

Someone drew a parallel with alchohol, apparently not seeing the flaw that me having a drink does not force anyone else too through 'passive drinking'... that's the key difference.

People should have the right to do whatever they like, where that does not infringe on the rights of someone else.
And unfortunately the right to choose not to do something, will always have to be upheld in favour of the right of another to actively do something.

Originally posted by panda79
my views are held by many .....

Perhaps, but you may have noticed on this forum that I don't care much for the 'rights' of smokers


Originally posted by panda79
actually smokers probly pay more in taxes so are entitled to health care .........

Yeeesss, but don't smokers consume more NHS resources than they provide for?

Didn't a French junior minister said to his superior 'For every one Franc we make in tax, we spend three Francs on healthcare'. To which his superior replied 'Yes, but I will get the one Franc. It is my successor who will have to find the three Francs' ;)

Originally posted by panda79
if i want to smoke i will:thumbsup:

So if I want to breathe non-contaminated air, I can not :loopy:




:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Cyclone
People who actually wish to restrict the right of smokers to smoke full stop are acting in a rather fascist manner.


Control freakery has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You'll actually find that we're concerned about our health...and possibly to a lesser extent yours.


Originally posted by Cyclone
People should have the right to do whatever they like, where that does not infringe on the rights of someone else.


Exactly, my friend - we call it passive smoking. And that does infringe on our rights.

:thumbsup:

most bars these days have exellent air conditioning so its not much of a problem i think the way we have things now with smoking / non smoking sections is the best way ....... and if you ban somthing you will just drive it underground :loopy:

I thought we had already established on this forum a while back that smokers pay far more in taxes than what they take back in NHS treatment.

Smoking is big business. Just ask Blair, he demonstrated his knowledge on this when he accepted a million from Bernie Ecclestone and then proceeded to lift the tobacco ban.

I know many smokers, and they all wish to quit. This scheme would help them out even more, prolong their life and contribute to the general quality of life in sheffield. If we simply make smoking inconvienient for people, I think we can save lives :)

BTW, my uncle died of lung cancer due to smoking, and my dad took up smoking again 5 years ago after my parents divorce. He'll probably die soon.

Originally posted by panda79
actually smokers probly pay more in taxes so are entitled to health care ......... if i want to smoke i will :thumbsup:


We see people like you every day of the week.


So cocky and arrogant until they hear the words


''I'm sorry but your cancer is terminal. It will be painful - Be brave.''

Originally posted by panda79
most bars these days have exellent air conditioning so its not much of a problem



Feeble excuses.

Originally posted by panda79
most bars these days have exellent air conditioning so its not much of a problem i think the way we have things now with smoking / non smoking sections is the best way ....... and if you ban somthing you will just drive it underground :loopy:

I totally disagree. Air conditioning in bars etc makes only a minimal difference. As for seperate areas that depends on if they are in different rooms or the same one. If they are in the same room the smoke just drifts. As for driving it underground good. By defenition if something is underground it is done in a covert and secretive way and therefore does not effect the general public.

Its quite interesting to hear everyones opinions about smoking and cancer etc..diseases and premature death aside do you smokers actually realise you stink...plain and simple you smell rancid...bad breath, smelly clothes...if thats not an incentive itself then I don't know what is. Have a conversation with someone thats just had a fag and it is gut wrenching sometimes

come on people whats all the complainin 4 at the end of the day if people want to smoke and die leave them to do it in harmony. With all the car fumes and pollution thats as bad as passive smoking i think we need to re assess whats killing us REALLY.

plus my grandads smoked since being 14 and hes 59 and still climbing chimneys as a steeplejack. Hes as fit as a fiddle im not biggin smoking up just saying its not as bad as it sounds.

Originally posted by wibbles
Its quite interesting to hear everyones opinions about smoking and cancer etc..diseases and premature death aside do you smokers actually realise you stink...plain and simple you smell rancid...bad breath, smelly clothes...if thats not an incentive itself then I don't know what is. Have a conversation with someone thats just had a fag and it is gut wrenching sometimes



Poor smokers LOL.


They lose their sense of smell too.


Yes they do reek.

Originally posted by fuzbuz




My grandads smoked since being 14 and hes 59 and still climbing chimneys as a steeplejack. He's as fit as a fiddle im not biggin smoking up just saying its not as bad as it sounds.



He's got lung damage.

He probably has but the fact that he's fit and still climbs 100ft chimneys every day and hes up at 5am all the time it cant be that bad. i mean ok smoking isnt great for you but i just think that recently people are over reacting a tad. I kno loads of people that smoke as i drink in a working mans club and iv never known any one be ill from it im not sayin it doesnt kill u just that it doesnt kill asmuch people as any thing else. eg road accidents, anorexia, obesity !!!!!!!!!!!

Just before Christmas a man in his late twenties went for a check-up because he had a ''slight twitch in his chest whilst gardening, like a pulled muscle.''


21 days later he was dead and his family devastated.


The autopsy revealed so much tobacco tar in his lungs that questions were raised about how the lungs were able to function before his death and why the young man did not experience more severe chest pains.


Sometimes it isn't propaganda - Smoking ends life.


Now is always the best time to stop smoking.

Yes quitting is very difficult.

But lozenges will provide a controlled supply of nicotine whilst eliminating the harmful tars and chemicals pumped into the blood.

Originally posted by fuzbuz
He probably has but the fact that he's fit and still climbs 100ft chimneys every day and hes up at 5am all the time it cant be that bad. i mean ok smoking isnt great for you but i just think that recently people are over reacting a tad. I kno loads of people that smoke as i drink in a working mans club and iv never known any one be ill from it im not sayin it doesnt kill u just that it doesnt kill asmuch people as any thing else. eg road accidents, anorexia, obesity !!!!!!!!!!!

Well you will begin to meet many people who die from smoking, and you will probably be related to some. In fact, you will know some already – they just aren’t dead from it yet.

It took my grandmother about 4 years to die from lung disease, most of which she spent with an oxygen mask on her face.

Believe me... it is no way to die... slowly... painfully... stupidly.

Originally posted by Tony



It took my grandmother about 4 years to die from lung disease, most of which she spent with an oxygen mask on her face.

Believe me... it is no way to die... slowly... painfully... stupidly.


Yes - it is a very painful death for many, many smokers.

I see it every day - that is the price of their ''civil liberties''

It doesn't matter how bad it is for them.
If they want to do it who are you to tell them they can't Jdee?

Quote:
Originally posted by Cyclone
People who actually wish to restrict the right of smokers to smoke full stop are acting in a rather fascist manner.



Control freakery has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You'll actually find that we're concerned about our health...and possibly to a lesser extent yours.


Quote:
Originally posted by Cyclone
People should have the right to do whatever they like, where that does not infringe on the rights of someone else.



Exactly, my friend - we call it passive smoking. And that does infringe on our rights.




Abdul - I understand the concern about health, and thankyou for being concerned about mine. I don't smoke, and never have, so you are concerned unecessarily.
My comment about control freakery was directed at the person (posibly JD) who suggested that it should be completely banned, inside, outside, in peoples own homes.
What's ur last quote and comment about, are you just agreeing with me, or did you not understand that i was supporting the ban in public buildings?

Originally posted by Cyclone


It doesn't matter how bad it is for them.


If they want to do it who are you to tell them they can't Jdee?






They are so thick that they need saving from themselves.

Many of them also expose children to their smoke, who get a slap if they complain.

It is a filthy habit that should never be defended.

I suppose that if folk want to smoke in their front room that's fine because I can choose not to go there.
However, I look forward to the inevitable day when smoking in all public places is banned.

Not been funny but I think it's ignorant when people smoke in restaurants, smoking or non-smoking areas! Would you like it if we came and used your table as a toilet?? Because that's what you're treating other people's lungs like!

Look smoking has been around for probably longer that any one on here is old. My nanan and grandad were smokin before half of us was even born so rnt the people who come along 10 20 30 years later and say ban it ignorant

Originally posted by Cyclone
My comment about control freakery was directed at the person (posibly JD) who suggested that it should be completely banned, inside, outside, in peoples own homes.

Thanks for your comments, Cyclone.

I would have to agree with JDee on this point. A parent smoking in their house in front of their kids...you may say it's the right of the parent to smoke, but what of the rights of the children to be brought up in safe, clean, non-toxic environment? Is it fair for the children to be at increased risk of asthma for the sake of the parents 'rights?'

Originally posted by Cyclone
What's ur last quote and comment about, are you just agreeing with me, or did you not understand that i was supporting the ban in public buildings?

As regards this, you said 'People should have the right to do whatever they like, where that does not infringe on the rights of someone else'. The point I am making is that smoking does infringe on the rights of someone else...the children in the example I gave above, the example Craigy gave with the woman smoking at the bus stop, and all those people who can't afford to be in first class on a plane, and are forced to sit at the back while nicotone addicts light up as if their lives depended on it (ho ho, there's a funny thing ;) )

Well maybe they are just intolerant of those people that pollute the environment.

Luckily, smokers have a nice habit of killing themselves off. :thumbsup: Perhaps the answer is to up the nicotine content so that they kill themselves faster.

Soylent Brownstain anyone? :D

Originally posted by Chloe
Not been funny but I think it's ignorant when people smoke in restaurants, smoking or non-smoking areas! Would you like it if we came and used your table as a toilet?? Because that's what you're treating other people's lungs like!

A classic Steve Martin joke:

"Do you mind if I smoke?"

"No, do you mind if i fart?'"

:lol:

Originally posted by Abdul
I would have to agree with JDee on this point. A parent smoking in their house in front of their kids...you may say it's the right of the parent to smoke, but what of the rights of the children to be brought up in safe, clean, non-toxic environment? Is it fair for the children to be at increased risk of asthma for the sake of the parents 'rights?'

I definitely agree with you on this point - my mum smoked when my daughter was a baby and I must admit I used to go "ballistic" at her for smoking in the same room as her. I think it was because I remember her smoking whilst I was a child. However I do not have asthma (to my knowledge anyway). I am a non smoker and always have been and can definitely say that it was my parents smoking that put me off so it doesn't always follow that the children of smokers will also smoke but I do agree.

Originally posted by Abdul
As regards this, you said 'People should have the right to do whatever they like, where that does not infringe on the rights of someone else'. The point I am making is that smoking does infringe on the rights of someone else...the children in the example I gave above, the example Craigy gave with the woman smoking at the bus stop, and all those people who can't afford to be in first class on a plane, and are forced to sit at the back while nicotone addicts light up as if their lives depended on it (ho ho, there's a funny thing ;) )

I also agree with you on this point, but you are a little out of date as regards to smoking being allowed on flights all of the flights I have been on in the last 3 years have been totally non smoking and that includes a Virgin flight to florida. However looking at it realistically I have resigned myself to having to live with it. I know I shouldn't have to but that's life isn't it:(

Originally posted by wibbles


SHE????? ahem..cough cough..thats a bit presumptuous?


Probably thought you sounded like an old woman :lol:

Originally posted by wendy
I also agree with you on this point, but you are a little out of date as regards to smoking being allowed on flights all of the flights I have been on in the last 3 years have been totally non smoking and that includes a Virgin flight to florida.

Sorry Wendy :blush:

It's been five years since I was on a plane! As soon as the no-smoking lights went out, the Italian passengers next to me lit up right away :loopy:

Yeeeuuucchhhh!

Originally posted by Abdul
Thanks for your comments, Cyclone.

I would have to agree with JDee on this point. A parent smoking in their house in front of their kids...you may say it's the right of the parent to smoke, but what of the rights of the children to be brought up in safe, clean, non-toxic environment? Is it fair for the children to be at increased risk of asthma for the sake of the parents 'rights?'



As regards this, you said 'People should have the right to do whatever they like, where that does not infringe on the rights of someone else'. The point I am making is that smoking does infringe on the rights of someone else...the children in the example I gave above, the example Craigy gave with the woman smoking at the bus stop, and all those people who can't afford to be in first class on a plane, and are forced to sit at the back while nicotone addicts light up as if their lives depended on it (ho ho, there's a funny thing ;) )

You are deliberately looking at a specific situation rather than the general.
What of the right of smokers with no children?
And you are being obtuse regarding the second point. Smoking can affect others. It doesn't have too though as you well know.

Not sure what you are talking about re:planes as they are all non-smoking and have been for as long as i remember.

Originally posted by Cyclone
You are deliberately looking at a specific situation rather than the general. What of the right of smokers with no children?

And what about the rights of non-smokers? Fine, let people 'choose' to 'enjoy' smoking in private, but I do not see why the health of non-smokers should suffer because people smoke in public, or in the presence of non-smokers.

Originally posted by Cyclone
And you are being obtuse regarding the second point. Smoking can affect others. It doesn't have too though as you well know.

Sorry, could you be more specific?

Originally posted by Cyclone
Not sure what you are talking about re:planes as they are all non-smoking and have been for as long as i remember.

Yes, and I thank Wendy once again for pointing that out ;)

MOD - I've pruned this somewhat so apologies if there are any unexplained quotes.

I smoke, but I agree with everyone on here who states the following facts ;

YES; smokers do stink (just like people who eat garlic, or spray lashings of LYNX all over, or some vegetarians who's breath smells of compost heap and have terminal wind).

YES; smokers do pollute other people's air (just like the planes that take people on holiday and are contributing massively to global warming).

YES; smoking is a health hazard to our children (just like dog muck that covers most of our amenity areas)

YES; smokers do cost a lot in health care (just like obese people, those who jump out of aeroplanes, those who fall off rock faces, those who get hurt in extreme or motor sports, those who drink excessively and those who drive like idiots)

I don't eat garlic, or use LYNX and am not a veggie.(ever)
I don't fly in planes (ever)
I don't own a dog.
I am not obese
I do not take part in any dangerous sport
I do not drive like an idiot
I have never been in hospital, but have contributed a fortune in tax to pay for other people's treatment as listed above.

Having said that I reckon that a garlic eating vegetarian who uses Lynx, owns a dog, partakes of extreme sport and flies abroad every year is as much an antisocial person as any (considerate) smoker.

And finally, as someone who doesn't use buses it sickens me how many bus tickets are just thrown on the streets. Probably as much as cigarette ends thrown down upsets nonsmokers.
A bit rough if I was to say, "Bus users are disgusting the way they drop litter".

you accept that smoking has all these negative effects.
Does finding comparisons to other things that also have negative effects somehow justify them though?

planes are one of the most efficient means of transport.
bus tickets are biodegradable.
all your other points seem reasononable, not sure i follow your argument though.

Just pointing out that there are other poeple out there besides smokers who have the same negative effects.

Planes may be efficient, and convenient, but that doesn't alter the fact that they pump gases into the atmosphere more directly than any other pollutant so are damaging the planet and in turn us all, even our none smoking kids. And they're there only because of demand by the people who use them.

I agree that bus tickets are biodegradable, its the act of dropping them that's the issue. The people who drop them are probably unaware of this and do it out of pure ignorance. The same as smokers who drop their dog ends.

Not trying to justify smoking Cyclone, its bad I admit, just trying to point out that there are nonsmokers who are causing the same problems in society that smokers cause.

And anyone who answers to the description of the person in my previous post has the right to justify their habits/preferences/lifestyle, don't you agree? Just like smokers have.

MOD EDIT: Several unnecessary and off topic replies removed.

Markham - Fair enough.
Smoking certainly isn't the only polution problem we have.
It doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed though.

Never tried to justify it Cyclone, and yes it DOES need addressing.

Was just having a spar with the ones who thought it clever to insult, and wish dead ALL smokers.

Finished on this thread now though...cough...cough!!:loopy:

Originally posted by markham
Never tried to justify it Cyclone, and yes it DOES need addressing.

Was just having a spar with the ones who thought it clever to insult, and wish dead ALL smokers.

Finished on this thread now though...cough...cough!!:loopy: ................... i do hope so lol:rolleyes: