Does anyone know the current rules? I have a friend who works for DWP and has been informed she has to visit the department doctor since she has had over 8 days sickness in a rolling year (whatever that means). I was under the impression that this harsh measure to reduce absenteeism had been dropped when the unions protested and that the trigger point was still 12 days (ex ES staff). I also thought that line managers could waive the inefficiency action somehow. It was put to her as being to her advantage since she has an underlying health condition. We have searched the intranet (hopeless, can't find anything on there) for information and spoken to HR, but cannot get anything definitive. If anyone can help we'd be grateful. Surely you can't all be working!!!

I'd say have a chat with the union.
As far as I am aware the trigger level was lowered from 12 days to 10 recently with talks of it being lowered to 8 days.

However I wouldn't have thought she would have to see the DWP dr just yet. Best thing to do would be to contact a local union rep, unless she aint in the union.... then basically she'll have to research all the guidance herself.

Is there a problem for her to visit the DWP Quack?

She aint! Keep telling her to join, but she's a bit reluctant. As regards visiting the Dpt Doc, she's not keen and keeps mentioning invasion of privacy. I'm only concerned because I'm sure I've had more time off than her and am just waiting for it to happen to me. I was talking to someone in SY Police the other day and they don't have days of sickness they have periods because as she pointed out to me, it's quite easy to have 8 days sickness all at one go if you have certain illnesses. Whereas 5 periods of sickness is more reasonable. Also they tend to focus on uncertified sickness. I may phone the union rep and see what he says just to forestall any problems for myself. Our line manager is not the best and never knows the answer to any of the questions we ask. In the past guidance notes have generally been misinterpreted and we think this may have happened in this instance. I thought if the line manager wrote a report the action could be waived. Don't you think though that all this smacks of distrust? It's as though they don't believe you are ill.

Certainly sounds like a trip to the Union Rep. If a policy like this is in existence then Union representation will be required at some stage.

However without union membership she'll get no help. And to be honest thats only fair. I pay my subs to the union for cases (emergencies) such as this. If I didn't I wouldn't expect union help.

If you want/need the union it should be paid for. However if she has nothing to hide then going to the departments Dr's is not going to be a problem. Yes it may smack of distrust, but at the end of the day the Civil Service has the highest record of Sickness levels than company in the private sector. So they are bound to want to make sure people are being genuin!

Yep of course. She would be wise to join promptly. Without union representation on situation such as this she could find herself in deep trouble.

Has she been to her own doctor for her periods of sickness? If she has, then she should approach him/her and explain the situation. He/she may take the view that their professional judgement is being questioned and write to the DWP accordingly.

If not, join a union asap and have representation at the visit to the dept. doctor.

fyi a rolling year is any 12 month period, e.g. from 10/03/03 to 09/03/04.

Employers often refer people to their own doc to confirm there is no underlying medical problem before they take disciplinary action.

8 days might not seem a lot but if it was made up of 8x1 day sicknesses that were always on a Friday or Monday, you can see why the employer might want to do something before it hits an automatic "trigger" point of the 10 or 15 days mentioned.

I'm not saying that is the case here, it's just one possible explanation.

Originally posted by Zamo
Employers often refer people to their own doc to confirm there is no underlying medical problem before they take disciplinary action.

8 days might not seem a lot but if it was made up of 8x1 day sicknesses that were always on a Friday or Monday, you can see why the employer might want to do something before it hits an automatic "trigger" point of the 10 or 15 days mentioned.

I'm not saying that is the case here, it's just one possible explanation.

The 8 day ruling or whatever it is now is at the individual manager's discretion so if someone has exceeded the quota of sick days through long term illness then they should use their common sense and dismiss action, but on the other hand, if the individual has had several small spells of sickness then quite clearly that needs to be investigated, usually there is a line managers attendance report if they suspect anything, but they also need to cover themselves and the department from any form of legal action due to work related illness and that is why in most cases people are referred to occupational health. It's not a form of punishment or a form of accusation, but a safeguard to ensure that the health of individuals is not being harmed in the work environment. Besides, your friend can always decline to see occupational health by refusing to sign for her medical records to be passed over, but that might involve your friend then risk being put on the attendance report and that would go against her. So, if your friend has been genuinely ill then I suggest they go for their own sake. I hope I'm not sounding too opinionated, sorry if I am!!

Brillilant! Thanks v much. Common sense is the key here. From the last reply I think the rules have either been misinterpreted or there is some hidden agenda. The line manager (who is in short supply of the aforementioned) is completely aware of the persons medical history (womens complaints!!!) but is a single bloke with no real understanding of such conditions, never having had a girlfriend even. Does he have to submit a report in order to dismiss the action, because this could be the problem here. He would be far too embarrassed to ask her to go into detail.
I will stress to her once again the importance of joining the union because I think she will be adamant about not giving access to her medical records or being examined by the dwp doctor. She has nothing to hide at all as far as I am aware. She is simply a very private person.

Originally posted by Susana
Brillilant! Thanks v much. Common sense is the key here. From the last reply I think the rules have either been misinterpreted or there is some hidden agenda. The line manager (who is in short supply of the aforementioned) is completely aware of the persons medical history (womens complaints!!!) but is a single bloke with no real understanding of such conditions, never having had a girlfriend even. Does he have to submit a report in order to dismiss the action, because this could be the problem here. He would be far too embarrassed to ask her to go into detail.
I will stress to her once again the importance of joining the union because I think she will be adamant about not giving access to her medical records or being examined by the dwp doctor. She has nothing to hide at all as far as I am aware. She is simply a very private person.

I think for your friend to escape the occupational health docs her line manager would have to put her on an attendance report which isn't that bad if she doesn't have time off while she's on it. No idea how long this report runs for, but I do know that the info on this report is then fed back to personnel and could be harmful if your friend has further absences. I think it would be in your friend's best interest to go and get checked out by occupational health and she would then be covered by a medical report. Susana - PM me if you want and we can discuss this further and I can give you the benefit of my experience of the system as I went through the whole thing last year.

Ok let me see.

1. Trigger point is indeed 8 days.

2.Normally would only refer to occupational health at 8 days to rule out/investigate and underlying health problem.

3. I fshe has an underlying health problem going to OH is a good thing because they won't take any disciplinary action and will adapt to suit this problem; e.g. they may say she should be allowed 15 days absence with migraine or something, in which case they will allow her this much;

4. She should join PCS because if they decide to give an oral warning she will benefit from union represesentation;

5. Also if she doesn't she won't be able to go on strike in April.

Thanks

Thanks everyone, will pass all this info on to my colleague. It's great that everyone on here does their best to help out. What about all the job losses in the civil service? That's another thread...