Recent statistics show that approximately a third of cash machines in Sheffield now charge us to take out our own money!!!!!

The standard charge to use these machines can start from £1.50 per transaction, but you can be charged as much as £5.00 per transaction!

A spokesperson from Nationwide states that in ten years time, nearly all cash machines will carry a charge to withdraw cash!

So....................

Please feel free to vote on this one everybody, and please leave your opinions on the matter!

And also what is the most that you have been charged by one of the machines???

And where was this?

If companies want to put in extra cash machines and charge for withdrawing cash there (such as in pubs etc)- Fair enough. After all they are providing a service which we have to pay for.

But my issue is that, our own banks that already provide cash points are selling them off to these companies and lining their own pockets doing so.

This would be a good opportunity for a banking company to say they will never charge for their cash machines in the next 10 years. Once people see that they have to start paying to withdraw cash from their own banks, they'll move over to the one that won't charge.

(Oh yeah, I never use one of the cash points that charge me.. I always take enough out with me but when I ran out in Kingdom once, the bouncer let me run across the road to the free cash point)

IMHO, No we should not be charged for withdrawing our cash..ever. Unless the interest rates reflect this which at present are nowhere near...well mine isn't anyway!

I get about 2p interest per month, but when I take money out from private cash machines I get charged £1.50? :suspect: NO, can't be right can it? I know what you are going to say, don't use them, but what about on Christmas Day when I needed some cash and the only available machine (due to no buses) was my local corner shop with a private machine.

Say NO to these machines.

If you plan ahead well enough then you should never have to use these machines!!!
Where do they put them? in pubs and places like that- just use your card behind the bar!!!

Originally posted by Lee2
I know what you are going to say, don't use them, but what about on Christmas Day when I needed some cash and the only available machine (due to no buses) was my local corner shop with a private machine.

Say NO to these machines.

Would you rather there was no cash machine at all?

At the moment the ones that charge you are in places your bank wouldn't put one. So basically, they're offering an additional service by putting this extra machines in place.

I have no problem with them doing that, because if it was urgent that I needed some cash, I'd rather pay £1.50 to get some instead of having none at all.

True to an extent I suppose Scott, but the key issue is that banks are going to follow in this, and soon before we know it, all machines will charge, not just those in pubs!

Originally posted by matt1889
A spokesperson from Nationwide states that in ten years time, nearly all cash machines will carry a charge to withdraw cash!

However, on the other hand in ten years time the use of cash may well be defunct.

Then again, if nearly all cash machines will charge at this point, I will simply go to the machines that do not charge and use them!

Originally posted by matt1889
Recent statistics show that approximately a third of cash machines in Sheffield now charge us to take out our own money!!!!!
But is this because there are now more machines being installed in places like shops and pubs?

I can't remember seeing any of the traditional hole in the wall machines charging in recent times.

Quote : Would you rather there was no cash machine at all?

At the moment the ones that charge you are in places your bank wouldn't put one. So basically, they're offering an additional service by putting this extra machines in place.

I have no problem with them doing that, because if it was urgent that I needed some cash, I'd rather pay £1.50 to get some instead of having none at all.


__________________________

I understand what you are saying but £1.50 to take out a tenner is excessive isn't it. Why not have it on a sliding scale, the more you take out the more you pay?:confused:

Whilst working down south, I remember using the Holes-in-the-walls down there and being charged for doing so!

If I can recall, It was in Cardiff and Southampton????

But as of yet, Ive never been charged by a hole-in-the-wall up here, but I wonder if it will be the same up here?

Matt

Originally posted by Lee2
Quote : Would you rather there was no cash machine at all?

At the moment the ones that charge you are in places your bank wouldn't put one. So basically, they're offering an additional service by putting this extra machines in place.

I have no problem with them doing that, because if it was urgent that I needed some cash, I'd rather pay £1.50 to get some instead of having none at all.


__________________________

I understand what you are saying but £1.50 to take out a tenner is excessive isn't it. Why not have it on a sliding scale, the more you take out the more you pay?:confused:

I do agree with you to an extent Lee!

I just think that the admin charges for these machines are rather high! £1.50 and even £5.00 in some places!

In the local pub, they used to be happy to take payments by Switch and even to give cash back if necessary. Then the brewery insisted on fitting a cash machine and lo ! they will begrudgingly take payments by switch if its over £5.00 but will not give cashback. the landlord agrees it is a stupid ploy, and nobody uses the machine at all.
It is just another example of Uk banks and businesses ripping people off, it just would not be tolerated in other countries. If the banks wanted to levy a charge, then the alternative would have to be to go into the bank and make a withdrawal over the counter, which would end up costing the bank more. If we all stand up and refuse to use these rip off machines, then they will die off.

I can't see that the banks can start charging us to use hole in the wall machines again. They did this several years ago (individual banks charging customers of others to use their machines) and there was such a public outcry they had to stop doing it.

Originally posted by DancingDave
In the local pub, they used to be happy to take payments by Switch and even to give cash back if necessary. Then the brewery insisted on fitting a cash machine and lo ! they will begrudgingly take payments by switch if its over £5.00 but will not give cashback. the landlord agrees it is a stupid ploy, and nobody uses the machine at all.

Well in that case put your card behind the bar and run up a tab, its not that hard to get over £5 in a pub- especially if there is more than 1 of you!!!

I rarely use ATM's, I pay for most things with the card, and if I realy need cash for something I just get cashback.

Originally posted by Tony
But is this because there are now more machines being installed in places like shops and pubs?

I can't remember seeing any of the traditional hole in the wall machines charging in recent times.

Agree with Tony. All ATM's located at the bank will not charge and these are the ones i tend to use. What you will find is the machines located away from the banks replaced by charging machines. This is so the supplier and business location receive income/commission from the machines.

What i am not sure of is what tha banks charge the machine suppliers. (Sorry if that is answered)

Originally posted by Twiglet
I can't see that the banks can start charging us to use hole in the wall machines again. They did this several years ago (individual banks charging customers of others to use their machines) and there was such a public outcry they had to stop doing it.

The banks aren't charging us, and aren't planning to either. It's other companies who are providing extra cash machines (whether they be replacing one removed by a bank or not) that are charging for providing a service.

I can't think of anywhere where there is a charging cash machine where there isn't a non-charging one within a few minutes walk. You might have to go out of you way to avoid being charged, but thats your perogative. Personally, I'd rather be able to get to my cash when I need to, even if it involves paying an extra charge because I can't be bothered to go find a non-charging machine.

Originally posted by scottf
Well in that case put your card behind the bar and run up a tab, its not that hard to get over £5 in a pub- especially if there is more than 1 of you!!!

That's exactly What I do !!!!! or make sure I have some Cash :clap:

(dare i say this)
My brother works for one of the companies that supplies these atm machines which are available in the shops,etc and charge people for taking their cash out. He has told me before that some of the machines can charge upto 3:50 for a transaction but most of the machines charge 1.50.

The most of i have been charged for a transaction is 2.75 and that was in Yarmouth a few years back, its not that often i use those type of machines anyway as my bank is close by, its only if i'm on holiday or something when i use them and thats only if i really need to.

I never use the cash machines in pubs/clubs etc...

But i was very annoyed when i withdrew some cash from the HBOS cash machine (i bank with Halifax) at drakehouse retail park, and to my suprise AFTER i had withdrawn the money i noticed on my receipt a charge of £1.75 :rant:

It is the same at the Halifax cash machine at Valley Centertainment, I wouldnt mind but if you bank with them you shouldnt be charged! :rant:

I dont know if its just a retail park thing :confused: :mad:

Not that all of you want to know this!

But Spearmint rhino in town, Charge £5.00 per withdrawal!!!

The pain of that machine!

Matt

Originally posted by matt1889
Not that all of you want to know this!

But Spearmint rhino in town, Charge £5.00 per withdrawal!!!

The pain of that machine!

Matt


:wow: :wow: :wow:

Any charge is not on, but 5.00...:nono: :shakes:
Disgusting!!!

Originally posted by bladeslass
:wow: :wow: :wow:

Any charge is not on, but 5.00...:nono: :shakes:
Disgusting!!!

Not that I go there or anything blades lass! lol

UP THE BLADES!

Originally posted by matt1889
Not that I go there or anything blades lass! lol

UP THE BLADES!

i bet you dont!! ;)

Originally posted by DancingDave
It is just another example of Uk banks and businesses ripping people off, it just would not be tolerated in other countries.

Depends what country... I have a Belgian bank account that will let me use my card for free in any cash machine in the Eurozone, but when I lived in Germany I got charged four euros a time for using any cash machine (even within Germany) that didn't belong to the bank my German account was with. Slightly different situation maybe in that it's the banks that are ripping off their customers rather than private cash machine firms, but still seems unjustified...

Matt, it's a legitimate charge that you are warned about before you withdraw the cash. How do you think the owners of the machines make a profit?, it's also good business for the places that have these machines aswell.

You obviously use them so isn't that a convenience that you are willing to pay for?

Either abstain and moan or don't moan and use em', you can't do both.

If you don't want to pay the charge find a bank ATM that doesn't charge.

ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE !!!

Cash machine charging is basically another tax on the poor.

Most of the less well off areas of Sheffield no longer have free cashpoints or bank branches - but they do still have the charging variety. Now, less well of people don't / can't take out large amounts at once - usually 10 or 20 at a time. So that's gonna be an average of an 8 to 15% tax. (I mean tax in the loosest sense.)

It's economically bad for the area the cashpoint is in too - 50% of all cash withdrawn from cashpoints is spent in shops adjacent to it.

But I guess it wouldn't be the first time someone made a profit from something that was bad for your local area....!

Originally posted by Twiglet
I can't see that the banks can start charging us to use hole in the wall machines again. They did this several years ago (individual banks charging customers of others to use their machines) and there was such a public outcry they had to stop doing it.

Agreed.

A few years ago, the Halifax would charge me to take money out of my account from a competitors cash machine.

I could understand the Yorkshire bank charging me to take money out of my Halifax account from a Yorkshire Bank ATM, but no - that part of the transaction was free.

My bank charged me for taking money out of my account.

I was going to leave the Halifax because of this, but the Yorkshire Bank made it too difficult to join. You now have to make an appointment, and you're vetted first before you can open an account.

Is me a criminal or summat :cool:

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
Matt, it's a legitimate charge that you are warned about before you withdraw the cash.

Not always. Some cash machines (notably Alliance + Leicester ones in shops and such) used to inform you they were charging you £1.50 for the pleasure of your transaction after it was committed.

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
If you don't want to pay the charge find a bank ATM that doesn't charge.

?

Fine, should I just ask the bank that promises to provide Xtra to relocate to the bottom of my road :roll:

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
Matt, it's a legitimate charge that you are warned about before you withdraw the cash.

The ATM outside Mcdonalds (on Farm Rd?) near the college, didnt warn me about any charge before i withdrew cash out. :huh:

Originally posted by dosxuk
The banks aren't charging us, and aren't planning to either. It's other companies who are providing extra cash machines (whether they be replacing one removed by a bank or not) that are charging for providing a service.

I can't think of anywhere where there is a charging cash machine where there isn't a non-charging one within a few minutes walk. You might have to go out of you way to avoid being charged, but thats your perogative. Personally, I'd rather be able to get to my cash when I need to, even if it involves paying an extra charge because I can't be bothered to go find a non-charging machine.

That's what I said :) The banks aren't charging us now but they used to. There was a time a few years ago when some of us were charged by both our own bank and the bank whose machine you were using so could pay up to £2.50 for using a bank branch based ATM.

Story here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/your_money/446728.stm)

Originally posted by Abdul
Not always. Some cash machines (notably Alliance + Leicester ones in shops and such) used to inform you they were charging you £1.50 for the pleasure of your transaction after it was committed.


Fine, should I just ask the bank that promises to provide Xtra to relocate to the bottom of my road :roll:

Abdul, if they are in shops they typically are sponsored by a bank to get people to use them and they are still profit making, the Alliance and Leceister ones get away with the charge as the sales screens show the charge also the charge should also be displayed somewhere on, or near to the machine.

I'm sure that the Halifax have plenty of cashpoints within easy distance of where you live !!!

Originally posted by bladeslass
The ATM outside Mcdonalds (on Farm Rd?) near the college, didnt warn me about any charge before i withdrew cash out. :huh:

I suppose you thought the burger and fries were free aswell ?

Originally posted by RazorSHarp
Alliance and Leceister ones get away with the charge as the sales screens show the charge also the charge should also be displayed somewhere on, or near to the machine.

That's the problem. They didn't inform you of the charge. It's only after the cash machine providers were warned about it, that they changed their policy.


Originally posted by RazorSHarp
I'm sure that the Halifax have plenty of cashpoints within easy distance of where you live !!!


No they don't. Nearest ones I know of are in town or Meadowhall :)

(I'm not just being a lazy sod for the sake of it!)

Originally posted by GazB

At the moment the ones that charge you are in places your bank wouldn't put one. So basically, they're offering an additional service by putting this extra machines in place.



What about the ones which used to be owned by the banks which have been sold off. For example the old Halifax machine at Valley Centertainment. 7 years of being a Halifax cash-point, now it is a charged cashpoint! So, it was a place that a bank would put one - they did.

I'm sure this topic was covered in a thread not too long ago as I'm getting a strange sense of deja-vu. As a cardholder with a Solo card, I cannot use my card at a lot of places, so the option of "Just use your card at the bar etc" is null and void. I have to have cold, hard cash whenever I go out, which usually means having to go out of my way to go to a bank to drawer money out without charge. I have a bad credit history, and so cannot obtain another card.

If the trend to charge for all cashpoints continues, we will end up back in the situation where everyone queued for ages at their bank to make withdrawls. Not an ideal world at all.

EDIT: Here you go.. http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70929&highlight=charged+cash+centertainment

Originally posted by RazorSHarp

I suppose you thought the burger and fries were free aswell ?

I didnt go in Mcdonalds i used the ATM :loopy:

Bit below belt Razor_Sharp making out that she's thick!

Stop bein insulting!

Originally posted by matt1889
Bit below belt Razor_Sharp making out that she's thick!

Stop bein insulting!

I apologise, it's my first day back at work, I suppose I'm a little punchy :help:

I think years ago you used to get charged if you you used a cash machine that wasn't owned by your own bank. So it's much better now really.

I don't mind OCCASIONALLY paying £1.50 or whatever in pub etc to draw out money when it's not convinient to get to a bank.

WHY THE HELL SHOULD I BE CHARGED TO DRAW OUT MY OWN MONEY?????

:nono:

Think about it.

I'd love to have a debate about it, but there isn't one.

Full stop.

End of!

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr
WHY THE HELL SHOULD I BE CHARGED TO DRAW OUT MY OWN MONEY?????

:nono:

Think about it.

I'd love to have a debate about it, but there isn't one.

Full stop.

End of!

you are so wrong in so many ways......read all the posts....i think you need to think about it

you are paying for the conveinience. in most cases the machines you pay for are extra, say in pubs, bars, hope or castleton........its either no machine or pay £1.50, and i like the option. In places where a machine is likely to get a lot of use there is mostly a free one so just use that.

Originally posted by matt1889
And also what is the most that you have been charged by one of the machines???

And where was this?

For me it was when United played Shrewsbury away in the cup last September. I got to Shrewsbury and wanted to get something to eat, and the only cash machine I could find was one at a Post Office that charged me £3.50! :(

But i was very annoyed when i withdrew some cash from the HBOS cash machine (i bank with Halifax) at drakehouse retail park, and to my suprise AFTER i had withdrawn the money i noticed on my receipt a charge of £1.75
Owlsman - that one was sold off to a private (charging) company some months ago. After it got vandalised to destruction it was replaced with a similar looking non-HBOS one (and the one next to it). You'll have had to press one of the three of four buttons next to the text "by pressing one of these buttons I agree to a charge of £1.75". Not to have a go, but it is clearly signed.
Not directly related, but when I worked for a large bank, part of our contract was to have our salary paid in to an account with them, and we used to receive snotty memos every so often demanding that we stop using other banks' cash machines as our employer still had to pay a fee to the machine-owner for each transaction. My response to each of these memos was "well put a cash machine where I want one and I won't have to use someone elses". Idiots.
I wonder if they've decided to stop the ridiculous charging between banks for each transaction? Somehow I doubt it. If all the banks decided to stop charging each other for sending electronic data from ATM's to and fro, they could probably get rid of the vast admin teams they have monitoring such activity, and some accountants, and the saving could be used to fund bank-owned ATM's in convenient locations.
Nothing against private companies setting up where banks can't be bothered to though. Good on 'em I say. As long as it's clear.
Still, the days of cash are numbered.

nice to see search button use as alive and well as ever

50 pages here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17988&highlight=cash+AND+machine+AND+charged).

Originally posted by rocketpig
you are so wrong in so many ways......read all the posts....i think you need to think about it

you are paying for the conveinience. in most cases the machines you pay for are extra, say in pubs, bars, hope or castleton........its either no machine or pay £1.50, and i like the option. In places where a machine is likely to get a lot of use there is mostly a free one so just use that.

That's your opinion pig, and you're entitled to it.

However, I disagree with you :)

There are Billions of pounds floating around in the entire banking system, the majority of which is supplied by the likes of you and me.

Why the hell should a banking institution/any other institution make any money out of me at all by charging me to get out what I've already put in???

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!!

If banks are the ones doing the charging, we're actually doing THEM a favour! By putting money into the system, we allow them to operate a business. If everyone stopped making deposits, kept their money at home, paid their own bills, and stopped living their lives up to their nipples in debt, the entire banking institution would crumble.

Think about it!

So no, I don't think I should pay to get my own money out! If I've failed to take enough money to Castleton/a club/Tesco, then there's only person to blame, me!

I'll be buggered if I'm going to give anyone my hard earned cash. The bank can look after if for me by all means, but they're having none of it!

My banks make nothing out of me. They just use my money to do bigger things, and that's fine....just don't try charging me to get it out!

Last point: If they actually charged you what it cost to withdraw money from the machine, in terms of maintainence and electricity, it would be a fraction of what you pay, so think about it, can it be anything other than a money making exercise?

Well not wi mine it aint :hihi:

In peace

S.W

Last point: If they actually charged you what it cost to withdraw money from the machine, in terms of maintainence and electricity, it would be a fraction of what you pay, so think about it, can it be anything other than a money making exercise?
Banks generally don't charge you to withdraw from their ATM's. It's the privately-run ones that are often in pubs clubs etc.

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr
That's your opinion pig, and you're entitled to it.

Why the hell should a banking institution/any other institution make any money out of me at all by charging me to get out what I've already put in???



it is my opinion, but your opinion is based on a fact that simply isn't true.

banks don't charge for use of their cash machines!!! most (if not all) of the cash machines that charge are ran by companies, who position their machines in convienient places. i'e where a bank hasn't put one!! so they're providing a service that we have the option of using. if you don't want to use them, then don't, go to a machine ran by your bank.

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr
WHY THE HELL SHOULD I BE CHARGED TO DRAW OUT MY OWN MONEY?????

:nono:

Think about it.

I'd love to have a debate about it, but there isn't one.

Full stop.

End of!

:D :D :D

Oh dear oh dear, you are soooooooo wrong!!!

It isn't the banks that charge you the fee, it's the business that has the franchise of the machine, that is why you see them inside shops now as the shop is charging you the fee!

However some banks are selling off machines they had installed and run for years to the private companies, thus resricting our choice in being charged or not. (such as the aformentioned Halifax unit at the Centertainment) Not all the machines are 'in pubs and clubs' anymore.

so how many of you ask at the till when you have paid in/taken out etc not many i beleive .the reasons are simple because you dont want to inconvenience the next customer who he/she is in a rush so we dont bother .if everyone one stopped and complained about it every time money was taken out i think they would do something about it . also these privte companies who operate in pubs clubs etc are using your banks software to allow you to take money out of their machines or something similair . would your same bank accept responsability if you was short changed out of one of these machines i dont think so . they would say something like these companies are subcontracted to us but we accept no responsability whatsoever so until we all make a stance about these charges we is going to get ripped off

Originally posted by ricgem2002
so how many of you ask at the till when you have paid in/taken out etc not many i beleive .the reasons are simple because you dont want to inconvenience the next customer who he/she is in a rush so we dont bother .if everyone one stopped and complained about it every time money was taken out i think they would do something about it . also these privte companies who operate in pubs clubs etc are using your banks software to allow you to take money out of their machines or something similair . would your same bank accept responsability if you was short changed out of one of these machines i dont think so . they would say something like these companies are subcontracted to us but we accept no responsability whatsoever so until we all make a stance about these charges we is going to get ripped off

not a clue what you're on about

I cannot get my breath over all you lazy so-and-sos who are too bone idle to walk to your free local ATM machine at your local bank branch and take out adequate money. And then you complain about when you are in the pub, or the late shop and the little machine in there charges you.

Before I go out on the booze I walk to my local bank and take £20 or £40 and then I meet my mates. What's wrong with that? I am not special or endowed with aspects of GENIUS. I am just normal.

Before we had all these machines people would have been paid their wages in cash or had to go down to the bank branch and get out a week's money at a time, from the cashier.
If some of you went back to live in the 1970s you would be STUFFED. You are decadent and lazy and deserve all the charges you get.

These machines only charge because they don't get enough custom to be free use. Who else is going to pay for the secure data connection to check your account balance? Guess what if they DO actually get enough use they are made fee free.

the point of this thread is no we shouldnt be charged to take money out of our own banks .The individual banks should pay the companys a % of the times each time a machine is used making them more acceptable to the customer to use

Originally posted by ricgem2002
the point of this thread is no we shouldnt be charged to take money out of our own banks .The individual banks should pay the companys a % of the times each time a machine is used making them more acceptable to the customer to use

why should they?

public aren't forced to use the cash machines that charge, make sure you take enough cash to places where there aren't free cash points if you don't want to pay the charge

I don't give a monkey's kak who's charging quite frankly, I just know that I don't want to be lining anyone's pockets by withdrawing my money....

Far easier for me to make sure I have enough cash with me :)

And to any individual that's prepared to criticize my opinion, go tell someone who cares :hihi:

[QUOTE]public aren't forced to use the cash machines that charge, make sure you take enough cash to places where there aren't free cash points if you don't want to pay the charge[/QUOTE ] muppet

Originally posted by ricgem2002
[QUOTE]public aren't forced to use the cash machines that charge, make sure you take enough cash to places where there aren't free cash points if you don't want to pay the charge[/QUOTE ] muppet

the only muppet is the person who can't use quotes....lol

Originally posted by rocketpig
the only muppet is the person who can't use quotes....lol

Or people who can't spell or punctuate properly....

Have a look in your own back yard before you start kakking in someone else's ok?

Originally posted by sTaGeWaLkEr
Or people who can't spell or punctuate properly....

Have a look in your own back yard before you start kakking in someone else's ok?

cool down bud

Originally posted by rocketpig
cool down bud

I'm as chilled as they come my friend :)

well stagewalker i'm about done on this thread, its a shame you couldn't acknowledge that you now realise that banks do not collect the revenue from cash machine charges....silly you

Ok, slightly off-topic but still in the spirit of the thing.........we all know that, using internet banking, tis possible to immediately transfer money from one account to another, yes?

How about my credit card company taking 4 days to transfer the credit balance on the credit card acount to the loan account? 'Scuse me? It was only £20, (on the credit card, which I haven't used for ages) but they're telling me it takes four days to transfer the amount to the loan account? Yeah right!!!

This is how 'they' make their money from us - by using the archaic time scales (the time it used to take a lackey on a horse to traverse the length of the country, presumably) to generate interest on our money. So, yup, we shouldn't have to pay to take our own money from ATMs. However, I do of course accept that if I choose to obtain cash from a machine run by a third party, I have to pay for the privilige...

delete me please...

Glad to see that intelligent argument is alive and well, what with *"muppet", "no, you're a muppet", "i'm telling my dad, he'll beat your dad up".
*exchange may be exaggerate for comic effect.

If I opened a company tomorrow that was going to provide cash machines in out of they way places, how do the "all atms should be free" brigade suggest that my company make money?

Never been Charged to withdraw cash from a machine I always drive (somtimes out of my way) to get to a free machine, If i can't find a free machine I go into a shop buy a bar of chocolate and ask for cashback :D

Originally posted by SHsheff
Ok, slightly off-topic but still in the spirit of the thing.........we all know that, using internet banking, tis possible to immediately transfer money from one account to another, yes?

How about my credit card company taking 4 days to transfer the credit balance on the credit card acount to the loan account? 'Scuse me? It was only £20, (on the credit card, which I haven't used for ages) but they're telling me it takes four days to transfer the amount to the loan account? Yeah right!!!

This is how 'they' make their money from us - by using the archaic time scales (the time it used to take a lackey on a horse to traverse the length of the country, presumably) to generate interest on our money. So, yup, we shouldn't have to pay to take our own money from ATMs. However, I do of course accept that if I choose to obtain cash from a machine run by a third party, I have to pay for the privilige...

.......and what has this got to do with the price of fish?

you don't get it do you?......private companies run cash machines that charge, banks run your account. They work independant of each other. BANKS DO NOT CHARGE TO USE THEIR CASH MACHINES