I walked past the Peace Gardens after visiting the bank during my lunch break, and looked over at the Peace Gardens at those ugly blocks. They weren't as bad as I expected - they were worse. :gag: That office block looks like a hideous throwback to the 60s or early 70s and the hotel isn't much better. The peace gardens are nice but they're spoiled by those ugly monstrosities. They'd hardly let buildings like those get built in such prominent places in the city centres of Leeds or Manchester these days. Perhaps its time more imagination was shown in the design of buildings in Sheffield, and an end to the "anything will do as long as it fills that space" mentality.

What should they have done left it as an open space?? It's a city centre for gods sake. If you want an open area, Sheffield has load of parks within it's boundry.

No wonder Sheffield is lagging behing other cities like Manchester the citizens will never be pleased. What ever the council do they get slated by the people who are just stuck in the past and hate the changes they are doing.

Originally posted by 367squadron
What should they have done left it as an open space?? It's a city centre for gods sake. If you want an open area, Sheffield has load of parks within it's boundry.

No wonder Sheffield is lagging behing other cities like Manchester the citizens will never be pleased. What ever the council do they get slated by the people who are just stuck in the past and hate the changes they are doing.
Well, a good start would be to have buildings which are sympathetic with the surroundings. The new Peace Gardens are lovely; they don't deserve to be spoiled by unattractive buildings in the adjacent area.

I personally like the 2 new buildings- they look modern and look twenty times better than the horrible buildings that were then before!!

Originally posted by ppn_2204
Well, a good start would be to have buildings which are sympathetic with the surroundings. The new Peace Gardens are lovely; they don't deserve to be spoiled by unattractive buildings in the adjacent area.

What would you suggest would be sympathetic ?

Originally posted by nick2
What would you suggest would be sympathetic ?

I know what ppn means but sometimes a mix of modern and traditional architecture can complement each other. I'd like Sheffield to be known for some modern, quality building's and this location is a great place to start IMO.

Originally posted by nick2
What would you suggest would be sympathetic ?
I have no specific suggestions. I would, however, offer my opinion, which is that buildings should reflect in their size and composition the tone of the location and of any pre-existing architecture. The architect should be influenced by surrounding structures, which in this instance might reflect the old Town Hall, for example, and the fluid lines of the fountain carvings.

As an ex-pat, my predominent memory of the Peace Gardens is of the (thankfully now demolished) New Town Hall. Given that, anything which doesn't evoke the concrete monstrosities of the 60s and 70s would be a distinct improvement.

What would you suggest?

If your complaining now then i wonder what your gonna be saying when the skyscraper is being built- lol!!!

Originally posted by 367squadron
What should they have done left it as an open space?? It's a city centre for gods sake. If you want an open area, Sheffield has load of parks within it's boundry.

No wonder Sheffield is lagging behing other cities like Manchester the citizens will never be pleased. What ever the council do they get slated by the people who are just stuck in the past and hate the changes they are doing.
Nobody suggested leaving an empty space there. What should have been built there ought to have looked a damned sight better than what ended up being built there. I only hope the highrise building ends up looking a lot better than what is already there. A few buildings from Manchesters Spinningfields, Glasgow's Elphinstone Place, or Leeds' proposed Wellington Street development wouldn't have gone amiss.

Originally posted by firecracker
Nobody suggested leaving an empty space there. What should have been built there ought to have looked a damned sight better than what ended up being built there. I only hope the highrise building ends up looking a lot better than what is already there. A few buildings from Manchesters Spinningfields or Leeds' proposed Wellington Street development wouldn't have gone amiss.

But we don't want to look like manchester or leeds- we want to look like sheffield- we carve out our own city centre and i think these new buildings look great- there the first modern looking buildings in the city centre for years!

Originally posted by scottf
But we don't want to look like manchester or leeds- we want to look like sheffield- we carve out our own city centre and i think these new buildings look great- there the first modern looking buildings in the city centre for years!

The MacDonald hotel is a decent building, as it echoes the forms and colours of the winter gardens and the Town Hall, and I think it's not only distinctive in its own right, but also complementary.

However, the St Paul's block really does have nothing to recommend it. It is a 'throw-back' and is bland. The main body of the building is dull and reminds me of a 1960's comprehensive, or even the egg box itself (which i preferred), the icing on the cake as t'were is the frankly weird extra floor, like someone's made a DIY conservatory on the roof out of old greenhouse panels. And the spindly columns on the ground floor are very '1960's tower block'. Ugh. It's a bit 'too much like Sheffield' for my liking, reminding me of something you might have seen in "Sheffield - City on the Move". :(

I thought it was a real shame that, after the demolition of the egg boxes which opened up a great view of the most excellent Winter Gardens, that they've now covered this sight up with the new 'modern' assembly

They both look good to me. When does work start on the big block which will start even more moaning.

I don't understand it at all. When you had a good view of the winter gardens it looked absolutely fantastic, now the winter gardens building is hidden.

I understand there may be ecomnomic arguments, but what I don't understand why they bothered to make such a beautiful building if they are going to hide it behind blocks of buildings that you can see in any city in the country.

Originally posted by scottf
If your complaining now then i wonder what your gonna be saying when the skyscraper is being built- lol!!!
I mentioned Glasgow's Elphinstone Place tower - it looks attractive and it'll have 39 storeys.

Sheffield is the fastest growing city outside London and every single space needs accomodating. Now i'm not saying I like the look of the new St Paul's Place building but I can see the reasoning behind it.

The MacDonald building, on the other hand, was designed in a way that fitted in with, and reflected, the Winter Gardens and the Town Hall.

Another thing to note is that although they may block the view of the Winter Gardens, neither of the buildings are the tallest buildings in their environs and so do not dominate the space.

I like the hotel. It is comparable in size to the Town Hall, it has the curved roof which complements the glimpse still visible of the Winter Gardens, and the green bits match the green bits of the Town Hall roof. The windows are not too different from the Town Hall windows in size. I'm not so keen on the view from Surrey Street, however.

To leave this as an open space just wouldn't have worked. the Winter Gardens are too small and in the wrong place (half tucked away round the back) to hold their own against the Town Hall. The eye would ineveitable be drawn to the ugly back of Novotel.

The office block, on the other hand, IMHO, is a pile of doo-doo and I hope I live long enough to see it come down again.

Hugh

When I was a child in Sheffield (aged about 10,I was very mature and observant,for my age)I could never understand how a building as ugly as the egg box could ever be built alongside the old town hall,which I really loved to look at.( Although I did like walking under/through it,past the walking man-which always humoured me, I can't remember if it was smoking or just usualy had a but end shoved in in it?!but there was something "wrong" about it which appealed to me).
When there was talk of changing the old grassy peace gardens for a concrete peace gardens, I wasn't in favour of it, but was pleasantly surprised when it was completed, and admit it is a vast improvement and still very green and grassy.Suddenly the Egg box looked right in it's surroundings( and I actually thought it looked like a really intresting ,different,unique peice of architecture-rather than just a concrete monstrosity.I'm not sure if my change in opinion was because it was so well complemented by the new peace gardens,or because my own personal tastes and styles had changed as an adult,or a mixture of both).I thought it was a shame when they knocked it down( I have some photos somewhere of it half knocked down,I'l add them to this post if I ever get around to it, and figure out how).Then along came the winter gardens,which made a beautiful back drop for the peace gardens,what an impressive giant greenhouse.And now they decide to stick two new boring pretty much bog standard modern buildings in between,and you'd hardly know that the winter gardens was there, I think this is such a shame(incidently is that pidly tourist information centre in the winter gardens all Sheffield has as a T.I for visitors? If so I find that ridiculous,there is so much for Sheffield to offer visitors,and know one to let them know,when I have been travelling abroad I have found T.I centres invaluble).
(Anyway I'm sick of typing and am really waffling now -I'm tired and should be in bed!)
I realise that any space in a city centre has to be used efficiently, but I think Sheffields town planners do on the whole do a poor job,why didn't they put the winter garens leading straight onto the peace gardens with the hotel behind?
The general layout of Sheffield city centre is very poor,it's really hard to devise an efficient circular shop incorporating the moor and Fargate-not to mention West street or the Market.
If you are unfamiliar with the road layout( which seems to be forever changing) trying to get anywhere in town is a nightmare,you cant head in the direction you want to go because you usually get tangled up in some confusing one way system, and for pedestrians walking on the left handside pavement from the Moor towards the peace gardens it is really dangerous.I went to Leeds shopping today for the first time and couldn't beleive how much better it is than Sheffield,or even Sheffield and Meadowhell put together for that matter( I cannot get on with Meadowhell far too claustropobic)I think I will just go straight to Leeds in future for a good shopping day as it's only 40 mins on the train.But as a born and bred Sheffielder I would prefer to say Sheffield Is the best.
Another feature I enjoyed in town as a child was that huge fountain( I don't think it works anymore and just looks a mess these days)right at the bottom of the moor past where the buses go,outside the manpower services building.
O.K I have gone on enough now, sorry for waffling!Goodnight.

Originally posted by ppn_2204
What would you suggest?

It depends on what budget I have and whether I can employ a world famous architect or not. If you're spending very little money and employing a complete no-body architect then you get horrible buildings.

As for being in sympathy with the surrounding buildings, whatever you build next to the town hall, unless it's a gigantic Victorian Gothic fantasy castle, will look out of place.

Originally posted by nick2
It depends on what budget I have and whether I can employ a world famous architect or not. If you're spending very little money and employing a complete no-body architect then you get horrible buildings.
I didn't suggest world-famous. Competent, resourceful and intelligent/sensible enough to design structures that are in keeping with their surroundings.
Originally posted by nick2
As for being in sympathy with the surrounding buildings, whatever you build next to the town hall, unless it's a gigantic Victorian Gothic fatasy castle, will look out of place.
Being in sympathy suggests being influenced by the tones/colours, size, shapes and lines of the surrounding buildings. Victorian doesn't necessarily imply Gothic. A modern building might reflect a Victorian influence (or indeed a Gothic influence) without straying into pastiche. Unless the architect happens to be influenced by Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen (sp).

Originally posted by ppn_2204
Competent, resourceful and intelligent/sensible enough to design structures that are in keeping with their surroundings.


That is what makes a world-famous architect world-famous.

I know what "in sympathy" means. I'm suggesting that whatever you put next to the Town Hall everyone will hate it unless it looks exactly like the Town Hall, which is never going to happen.

Originally posted by nick2
That is what makes a world-famous architect world-famous.
I beg to differ. Architects who have made a big name for themselves have usually (in my opinion) designed some God-awful monstrosity of dubious engineering integrity (see the wobbly bridge in London that had the engineers laughing and later pulling their hair out when they had to correct the mistakes of the architect's 'vision'). Examples would be the proposed extension to the V&A, the Scottish Parliament building, a significant chunk of the Bull Ring.

There are many unacknowldeged architects designing sensible, attractive structures using a reasonable compromise between cost and aesthetics.

Originally posted by nick2
I know what "in sympathy" means. I'm suggesting that whatever you put next to the Town Hall everyone will hate it unless it looks exactly like the Town Hall, which is never going to happen.
I'm sorry, but your comment about how a building 'in sympathy' with the old Town Hall would have to be a Gothic fantasy castle suggested otherwise.

I simply think that large, glass-fronted tower blocks would look horrific at that location, turning a chunk of Sheffield city centre into a clone of Telford (God forbid).

Originally posted by ppn_2204
I beg to differ. Architects who have made a big name for themselves have usually (in my opinion) designed some God-awful monstrosity of dubious engineering integrity (see the wobbly bridge in London that had the engineers laughing and later pulling their hair out when they had to correct the mistakes of the architect's 'vision').

It was always an engineering problem, not an architectural one. Ove Arup, probably the worlds leading engineers, cocked up. Foster Associates, probably the worlds leading architects, didn't.

The resolution was simple when the issue was known about. That cause was computer structure analysis that wasn't capable of integrating certain unexpected practical issues (I won't bore you with harmonic resonance caused by feet and human body movement on a low profile tension structure). The engineers missed it.

Originally posted by ppn_2204
There are many unacknowldeged architects designing sensible, attractive structures using a reasonable compromise between cost and aesthetics.

You're absolutely right, and that is exactly what you see in the Peace Gardens.

I've made many comments on this subject before and anyone who has read them will know how I feel regarding Number 1 St. Paul's.

My main argument is that anyone visiting Sheffield and the Peace Gardens would be forgiven for believing that so far, the new buildings and whole Millennium Gardens development is coming along rather nicely, but with one (sizeable) exception.

That is, that when they've finished knocking down that bland, characterless piece of drab, grey, non-descript 1960s planning, ie, No 1 St. Paul's, and replaced it with something more befitting, more exciting, more aesthetically pleasing, then the job will be done.

Of cause, the rate payers of Sheffield know that that ugly building is infact going up and not being demolished.

What a travesty this is. Excuse the pun, but Sheffield City Council have waved a green flag to what is in effect, a Top Hat On A Turd. Only, the turd - No 1 St. Paul's, sits atop the top hat - the Millennium Gardens/Peace Gardens.

What should be the central focal point of our city centre, the 'look what we're doing' statement to visitors and residents alike, has become nothing more that a pretty walled garden complete with a council-approved and here-to-stay form of graffiti. That building is little short of mindless vandalism.

Only the city council, in its wisdom could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Do they never learn? There must be file upon file of bad planning, bad design and bad decision-making in the archives at Town Hall. Hyde Park, Town Hall Extension, The Manpower Building, Hole-In-The-Road, the electricity building on Moore Street.

The list is endless.

Add to it Number 1 St. Paul's and shake your head in disbelief.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
I've made many comments on this subject before and anyone who has read them will know how I feel regarding Number 1 St. Paul's.
I've not yet passed comment on the architecture and planning, so here we go... :)


Originally posted by Ousetunes
My main argument is that anyone visiting Sheffield and the Peace Gardens would be forgiven for believing that so far, the new buildings and whole Millennium Gardens development is coming along rather nicely, but with one (sizeable) exception.

That is, that when they've finished knocking down that bland, characterless piece of drab, grey, non-descript 1960s planning, ie, No 1 St. Paul's, and replaced it with something more befitting, more exciting, more aesthetically pleasing, then the job will be done.
The trouble with 'big hitting' international architects like Allies and Morrison is that they have an A Team, a B Team, a C Team, etc. When Bob Allies designed the Nunnery Square offices it was the A Team. Now that A&M are favoured architects at the Council, and suggested heavily to developers by them, they use the C Team. The feet are 'under the table' so to speak.

That isn't to say that A&M are bad architects, they are most certainly not, but (remembering the commercial considerations of the realities of rents in Sheffield) when fees and budgets are limited, and the ultimate prestige is limited (and probably non existent outside Sheffield) there is no practical sense in them using the best people in the office when they are better employed on a more important project than St Paul's Place.

Do not think for a second though that they are anything less than great architects as a practice.

A&M are a design business, and a design business must use its best design team on its most important projects. Sheffield does not provide them with that opportunity at this moment.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
the electricity building on Moore Street.
Ah, now there we disagree on what is a fabulous brutalist building that is essentially pure function but with a fabulous form. Have you ever tried designing a 7 storey building with no windows, total through ventilation, and massive structural strength designed to withstand explosions? That building is truly as good an example as you will ever see.


Originally posted by Ousetunes
Add to it Number 1 St. Paul's and shake your head in disbelief. Sadly, yes, it does.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
There must be file upon file of bad planning, bad design and bad decision-making in the archives at Town Hall. Hyde Park, Town Hall Extension, The Manpower Building, Hole-In-The-Road, the electricity building on Moore Street.


Every city has bad buildings, probably more than Sheffield (have you seen the office blocks next to St Pauls cathedral ?)
Two of your list arn't there anymore, so why harp on about them ?
As for the electricity sub-station, if you can find an example of a pretty electricity sub-station I would be interested to see it.

I suspect that the root cause is that negotiations between the Council and developers goes something like this:

Developer: Will this do? We drew this up on Friday afternoon
in the pub.

Council: Well, we need the investment, so why not?

Developer: Great. By the way, it's going to look a lot worse
than this when it's finished, but we've got you over
a barrel. Trebles all round!

You could not believe how far away you are from the realities.

Originally posted by Tony
You could not believe how far away you are from the realities.

Well, I wasn't being entirely serious you know. Being flippant every now and again lightens my day - I'm sorry if this upsets you.

Originally posted by nick2

Two of your list arn't there anymore, so why harp on about them ?
As for the electricity sub-station, if you can find an example of a pretty electricity sub-station I would be interested to see it.

Harping? This is a discussion forum, isn't it?

The very fact that two of my examples no longer exist just could be the point I am making: that they were never the right choice of design and planning in the first place. If they were, then chances are, they'd still be here.

Look how many awful designs submitted and okayed by the council in the 1960s and 1970s have already been demolished. If that isn't an admittance that the council got it wrong then I don't know what is. On the other hand, many Victorian and earlier buildings remain (for now at least. The council are working hard to rid us of some of them for the new shopping quarter).

But, it's easy to waste money when it isn't your own.

Regarding the sub-station, I take your point. But it really is a crude and ugly building (maybe its location is the moot point here?).

Maybe the planning department could move into there. (Joke)

As far as im concerned it will be another couple of years before i can judge the design of the new office block/hotel etc... as they are all designed o compliment each other, and as it stands with the office stuck out on its own yes it does kind of look out of place....but its not complete.

Far too many people argue that you cannot see the winter gardens now, but the main view of it will be walking behind the new offices off charles st looking straight at it, not from a fleeting glimpse as you walk past the peace gardens. Theyll be the new plaza open so you can sit outside round the cafes etc...

Too many people forget that the winter gardens were in the original plan alongside the hotel, it wasnt as if they built the thing and then sat there thinking "hmmm what can be build next to it". If people didnt want the hotel built why didnt they write into the Star when the plans were first published clearly showing what would be built alongside it. doh!

Originally posted by Tony
It was always an engineering problem, not an architectural one. Ove Arup, probably the worlds leading engineers, cocked up. Foster Associates, probably the worlds leading architects, didn't.
I stand corrected. I do like the idea of the architect and sculpter climbing the walls because the laws of physics don't happen to coincide with their artistic vision.
Originally posted by Tony
...(I won't bore you with harmonic resonance caused by feet and human body movement on a low profile tension structure). ...
Thanks, but I am already familiar with the concept :).
Originally posted by Tony
You're absolutely right, and that is exactly what you see in the Peace Gardens.
As ever, it's a matter of personal preference. Mine doesn't run to (most) concrete and glass buildings that soar skywards. I will wait, though, to see the final result.

I think if they demolished the moor they would stop building new structures that are based on those on the moor...get 60s and 70s arcistructures out of sheffield. and to look at old photos and what was demolished to build these monstrosities is disgraceful...sack the planners...and lets redevelop the city centre as a whole not just a bit at a time so that nothing matches or is continuous
mick the hat, nether edge

Originally posted by marinedrift
and to look at old photos and what was demolished to build these monstrosities is disgraceful...

you have to bear in mind a lot of the city centre was very, very shabby back-to-back slums, open air abatoirs, steel works, chemical works, tiny dark shops and grotty pubs, no-one could realistically want these buildings back.

A lot of the "great old buildings" wern't demolished by the council they were blown-up by Hitler, when half you city is flat or on the verge of collapsing you haven't realy got the luxury of sitting and thinking "now what would be a pleasing building to place on this site ?", you need shops, offices, public buildings fast.

Point taken, but sheffield is supposed to be the upcoming city of the future and they are still building them...no excuses....my main point is lets look at the city as a whole...a long term plan, not just redevelop here and then start again with no continuity...you cant even see the winter gardens anymore

Originally posted by marinedrift
not just redevelop here and then start again with no continuity....you cant even see the winter gardens anymore [/B]

theres more to Sheffield than whether you can see the Winter Gardens or not. And the hotel was in the original plan with the winter gardens. Anyway if youre heading into the centre from the station you can't really miss it so visitors should get a great introduction to the city by walking past it.

Its a shame The Moor was so heavily damaged during the war, had it been the same now it would be another West St :(

Originally posted by bathingape


Its a shame The Moor was so heavily damaged during the war, had it been the same now it would be another West St :(

There's the little joke that Chapel Walk is 'Sheffield's Shambles' (as in York) which is hilarious as the two addresses have little in common (and York's has people walking down it 7 days a week whereas on Sundays Chapel Walk is dead).

No, the real "shambles" in Sheffield is The Moor, a bland stretch of pound shops, bargains stores and little else. I am confident that if The Moor was in any other major city, then the council would have made a greater effort into turning it back into what it once was: a high quality shopping environment.

IMO it all went downhill when the place was pedestrianised. That more or less coincided with the building of the awful, ugly and far too large Manpower Services building which turned Moorfoot into a cul de sac and severed the vein that ran from Pinstone Street down to London Road, Ecclesall Road and Abbeydale Road.

The Moor of my early childhood was a bustling street with excellent shops and it was a place you could easily get to in the car, on the bus and on foot. They pedestrianised it circa 1977 then plonked a silly bandstand slap bang in the middle along with flower troughs (big wooden things) placed ad hoc making getting up and down the thoroughfare a bit of a challenge.

The area is crying out for redevelopment, but I can only see the place coming back to life if it is opened up again. I feel it's a shame that there weren't plans to run the tram down there (although there were plans for a mini-tram system to run alongside the first floors of the buildings, raised from ground level in the early 1970s), through a tree lined boulevard and thence through to (maybe) Abbeydale and Millhouses. The Moor needs reinvestment that will see quality stores return.

It needs to be more accessible and attractive.

I hope plans are afoot to make some kind of renewed attempt to totally transform this once great shopping street.

That doesn't necessarily stop at yet another sign at Moorhead and a few more metal seats placed here and there.

I too think the office block is ugly, but i don't think we can judge it properly until the new square is complete and the shops on the bottom level are open.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
There's the little joke that Chapel Walk is 'Sheffield's Shambles' (as in York) which is hilarious as the two addresses have little in common (and York's has people walking down it 7 days a week whereas on Sundays Chapel Walk is dead).

No, the real "shambles" in Sheffield is The Moor, a bland stretch of pound shops, bargains stores and little else. I am confident that if The Moor was in any other major city, then the council would have made a greater effort into turning it back into what it once was: a high quality shopping environment.

IMO it all went downhill when the place was pedestrianised. That more or less coincided with the building of the awful, ugly and far too large Manpower Services building which turned Moorfoot into a cul de sac and severed the vein that ran from Pinstone Street down to London Road, Ecclesall Road and Abbeydale Road.

The Moor of my early childhood was a bustling street with excellent shops and it was a place you could easily get to in the car, on the bus and on foot. They pedestrianised it circa 1977 then plonked a silly bandstand slap bang in the middle along with flower troughs (big wooden things) placed ad hoc making getting up and down the thoroughfare a bit of a challenge.

The area is crying out for redevelopment, but I can only see the place coming back to life if it is opened up again. I feel it's a shame that there weren't plans to run the tram down there (although there were plans for a mini-tram system to run alongside the first floors of the buildings, raised from ground level in the early 1970s), through a tree lined boulevard and thence through to (maybe) Abbeydale and Millhouses. The Moor needs reinvestment that will see quality stores return.

It needs to be more accessible and attractive.

I hope plans are afoot to make some kind of renewed attempt to totally transform this once great shopping street.

That doesn't necessarily stop at yet another sign at Moorhead and a few more metal seats placed here and there.

Castle Markets looks like it's moving to the Moor, in a purpose-built building, so hopefully that will get things going a bit. I just hope they make it non-smoking.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bathingape
[B]theres more to Sheffield than whether you can see the Winter Gardens or not.
Completely agree with you, I love my city and am very proud of it, just think the way forward with buildings that will stand the test of time rather than looking like the moor in a few years. I am aware of why the moor was built, but like the Ouse fella says its about time quality shops were introduced and that the moor is made more friendly to the eye and bring back the buzz to the city I remember as a kid...encourage folk to shop and enjoy the city centre...
I myself never sucame to meadowhell

I agologise to Ousetunes if you are female, as I suggested you were a fella......Sounds like good news about the market have you any details on what the timescale and plans are for the moor. I am currently in the Falklands for a few months so am a little out of touch

Originally posted by marinedrift
I agologise to Ousetunes if you are female, as I suggested you were a fella......

No worries, last time I looked I was indeed a member of the male species. (I was hoping the picture of me in my avatar, holding aloft a bottle of bubbly in The Sheffield to celebrate England winning the Ashes might help, but it seems not.)

As for Castle Markets being moved to the Moor, are you implying an enclosed building as opposed to a traditional open-air market?

Maybe a good quality, purpose built (but with some character) market hall, fronting onto the Moor might be a start, but a traditional market place would be nice also (selling quality produce and not junk and cast-offs).

Originally posted by Ousetunes


As for Castle Markets being moved to the Moor, are you implying an enclosed building as opposed to a traditional open-air market?

Maybe a good quality, purpose built (but with some character) market hall, fronting onto the Moor might be a start, but a traditional market place would be nice also (selling quality produce and not junk and cast-offs).

Indoor, I believe, with disabled access. Should tempt a few more shoppers t' Moor though.

Grand.....sounds like with all our whinging and whining that the city is changing for the better under our very eyes...I propose a toast to a better Sheffield...long may she be the gretest city in the world....We only complain cos we love her......
heres to sheffield
City on the move

Originally posted by Ousetunes


As for Castle Markets being moved to the Moor, are you implying an enclosed building as opposed to a traditional open-air market?

Maybe a good quality, purpose built (but with some character) market hall, fronting onto the Moor might be a start, but a traditional market place would be nice also (selling quality produce and not junk and cast-offs).

Do you think that sort of thing would sell up The Moor as it is though? I'm not sure that quality market produce would sell very well anywhere in Sheffield, as those with the money to spend more on groceries tend to use the supermarkets.

Though I have to say, the Moor is not all bad. It has some quality and brand name stores: Atkinsons, sainsburys, Debenhams, Boots, Woolies, BHS, Burtons etc. It also has some decent and tidy bargain stores such as Music Zone and a fair few independents. Im sure a few more chain stores could now do well down there, given the amount of potential spending power in Moorfoot and surrounding offices!

On the whole I love new buildings, and I understand the reasons for the MacDonald's hotel - and I think it looks ok although its precise positioning isn't fantastic. However, the new office block there does look terrible, like the kind of thing we've been pulling down. and how can we possibly need more office blocks in the city centre anyway? Seems to me that it could have been designed with a bit more care. Or, erm, not been put there at all.

I think it is just the general feeling of the moor, it always seems neglected. I think a facelift, a few more decent shops and maybe some coffee shops or the odd bar (not many though) and bit of greenery should brighten it up. I agree there are some good shops there but the chemistry is missing