Can you identify these three old photo's. They are all on glass plates and are from around the 1900's? They are supposed to have been taken in the sheffield area, but i dont recognise anything. In the centre of photo 3 the sign says "Symons hair cutting and shaving rooms".
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/3.jpg

Photograph no.2 looks like the building that housed the Yorkshire Penny Bank.

Compliments of the season,
Cynthia, Canada.

Great Pic's. I don't think it's Sheffield though. Interesting this one.

no 2 is looking down onto Surrey Street?

Originally posted by lovabulrogue
Great Pic's. I don't think it's Sheffield though. Interesting this one.

I tend to agree with lovabulrogue.

None of these pictures look like they were taken in Sheffield.

Where did you find them?

Is there a city famous for its glass?

No 1 could be be South St -- picture sheffield s00160

look where the building lines are on the left hand buildings.

The first two have a look of Edinburgh (west end of Princes Street) about them.

To me, the first one looks like The Moor (or perhaps Fargate), the second the Town Hall and Yorkshire Penny Bank (as Cynthia said) and the third Campo Lane.
Could very well be wrong though, as I wasn't around in those days. :)

Originally posted by Ousetunes
I tend to agree with lovabulrogue.

None of these pictures look like they were taken in Sheffield.

Where did you find them?

Is there a city famous for its glass?

There is a Town famous for it's glass,

St Helens.

Originally posted by Ousetunes


Is there a city famous for its glass?

I think the reference to glass plates means they're printed on glass for showing on an old projector rather than plates as in tableware:thumbsup:

I think the reference to glass plates will be for negatives which were on flat glass plates as opposed to the later celluloid.

Love that old stuff.1 looks like a view down Fargate, is that the Sheff Star building right in the distance or a stain? 2 looks like a shot from Pinstone st towards Surrey st and Fargate

Originally posted by segasonic
To me, the first one looks like The Moor (or perhaps Fargate), the second the Town Hall and Yorkshire Penny Bank (as Cynthia said) and the third Campo Lane.
Could very well be wrong though, as I wasn't around in those days. :)

Don't know about the first one. but in the second one the building to the right appears to have a rounded corner with a door in it and not in keeping with the corner of the town hall.

In the background of the third one there appears to be very steep/high hills in the background and I can't think of any similar such scene in Sheffield.....not within the City Centre anyway.

Originally posted by retep
No 1 could be be South St -- picture sheffield s00160

look where the building lines are on the left hand buildings.

I think you are right retep, after looking at picture number s00160 on the picture sheffield site picture number 1 is South Street.

Originally posted by fourfive
Can you identify these three old photo's. They are all on glass plates and are from around the 1900's? They are supposed to have been taken in the sheffield area, but i dont recognise anything. In the centre of photo 3 the sign says "Symons hair cutting and shaving rooms".
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/3.jpg
The first photo looks like The Moor (South st as was)
The second photo looks like the junction of West St/ Leopold St
The third Photo looks like a view up Angel St.

The first one is definitely the Moor(South St). If you enlarge the picture there are 2 towers in the background which from the shape, position and size are the Town Hall and St. Paul's.

Originally posted by saxon51
Don't know about the first one. but in the second one the building to the right appears to have a rounded corner with a door in it and not in keeping with the corner of the town hall.

I think that the perspective is misleading, and the Town Hall is actually behind the rounded building, which if I'm right is now the building housing the GAP shop.

I agree with saxon about the third one, they do look like hills in the background, and I can't think of anywhere in Sheffield so close to such high hills.

rooftops too sharp for hills

Originally posted by retep
rooftops too sharp for hills
The right hand one possibly, but the left hand one looks to have a gentle curve like a hilltop?

Like most of you I dont think no 3 is anywhere in Sheffield - those hills in the background are just too steep

Photo 1 has a definate 'feel' of Manchester while No 2 reminds me of several streets in Leeds


Hope this one is solved

Perhaps a clue on the writing of the fist building on photo 3 would solve the problem.

Originally posted by retep
Perhaps a clue on the writing of the fist building on photo 3 would solve the problem.

Here is a close up of the writing on the first building on photo 3. Cant quite make it all out though.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/4.jpg

I have my doubts as to whether its Sheffield. I've done a load of Google image searching and I can't get any of the buildings to match up to anythg on any of the suggested streets we have so far.

I could well be wrong though, I've only been here 10 years :)

The writing appears to be-

MANUFACTURER'S DEPOT
ART POTTERY

I cannot read the middle line.

Cynthia, Canada

I keep looking at these pic's, and more and more I think it is not all Sheffield.

I understand that some images look like the Moor, top of Fargate etc. But the Hill in the background means it can't be Sheff (at least not that one)

Do we know if the images are of the same place ?

I would say that it could be Bath depicted in any of those pic's, with it's long streets and crescents, the architecture looks as though it could be, not to mention the hill (after all Bath is in a Bowl)

Saying that, someone mentioned Edinburgh. Therefore is it viable that these are pictures of Bath, Edinburgh and Sheffield, these being Cities built on 7 hills ?

Just a thought.

p.s The missus is from Bath, I'll let her have a look later.

Having had a second look I am not so sure these three are the same town.

Especially No 3 - I cannot remember any major roads in Sheffield having a split down the middle with two diferent heights like this one.

Also look at the clothing on a couple of the men. One of them towards the right of the pic is wearing white trousers and a white hat.

There is another guy wearing a white hat in the middle of the pic. Now this may be ok for a walk in the park but not the city centre - unless you were on holiday - if this were a coastal town that would explain the hills in the background - quite a number of seaside towns nestle in cliff surrounded bays.

Another clue for you keen eyed Sherlocks (which I cannot get clear enough) can be found on the first building on the left above the ladder.

Can anyone make out the lettering up there?? - it looks German to me - I am just going on the length of the first word on the second hoarding - from what I can see it has got eleven letters.

That would make it a very long English word - and very unusual - but not out of place any where in Germany.

Like I said - I dont have the facilty to look into detail, but I hope I have given the more eagle eyed a couple of clues

That would make it a very long English word - and very unusual - but not out of place any where in Germany.

I am sure you are right there that is definitely not English writing

Originally posted by artisan
That would make it a very long English word - and very unusual - but not out of place any where in Germany.

I am sure you are right there that is definitely not English writing

The ladder picture (with the Hill) has 2 hoardings on it. I beleive these are seperate stores. And the writing is most definately in English not German.

The sign on the left as you look at it includes the words 'supply' and proprietor.

The sign on the right begins on the top line with Manufacturers Depot. The second line says 'Devon and Jones' (definately the word Devon anyway) then Barnstaple, then the third line Art Pottery. So Devon and Jones Barnstaple Pottery Depot.

Please see this recent picture of Barnstaple High St (I think it's the same St, you can clearly see the hill at the end of the St)

http://www.northdevongazette.co.uk/northdevongazette/flatfiles/scene/bple.aspx

It is indeed by the sea and the Taw River.

Your thougths ?

Oh I knew this would be fun!!

looking at Barnstaple (I've never been) on Google Earth it would appear that what could be the High Street - or whatever its called (if the pic is of the High Street) could look straight onto the side of a hill.

lovabulrogue - what software do you use to look at the pics - or is it just my ageing eyes letting me down?

Originally posted by docmel
Oh I knew this would be fun!!

looking at Barnstaple (I've never been) on Google Earth it would appear that what could be the High Street - or whatever its called (if the pic is of the High Street) could look straight onto the side of a hill.

lovabulrogue - what software do you use to look at the pics - or is it just my ageing eyes letting me down?

Go back to fourfive's link it's a few threads up from ours, his pic is clear. I haven't the sophisticated software unfortunately. Just a wanabee detective me !

. So Devon and Jones Barnstaple Pottery Depot.

Looks like it could be the one to me.

No .3 looks like Leeds Road in Huddersfield as you head northwards

I concur that photo 1 is South Street - The Moor. The street furniture is identical to 'Picture Sheffield' photo already mentioned, as are the roof outlines, and the open-topped tram no.82 is identical to sister tram no. 87 which I have found in a book on Sheffield Transport.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/saxon51/Untitled-TrueColor-01.jpg


I will go so far as to say that the photo was taken sometime between 1900 - when the tram came into service, and 1904 - when the tram was fitted with a roof.

How's that for sad.:(

Originally posted by saxon51
[B]I concur that photo 3 is South Street - The Moor. The street furniture is identical to 'Picture Sheffield' photo already mentioned, as are the roof outlines, and the open-topped tram no.82 is identical to sister tram no. 87 which I have found in a book on Sheffield Transport.


Are all talking about the same pic here?

I think you guys are talking about Pic No 1

Pic No 3 - several of us think is a town in Devon - probably Barnstable

Originally posted by docmel
Are all talking about the same pic here?

I think you guys are talking about Pic No 1

Pic No 3 - several of us think is a town in Devon - probably Barnstable

You are right, have edited my post accordingly. Thanks docmel.:thumbsup:

Having looked at pictures of Town Hall Square from other sources - Picture Sheffield no. s00198 - the Jubilee Monument which was there at the turn of the century is missing, the Albany Hotel roof line is different, and the Town Hall clock has a different face in photo 2.

The perspective is all wrong on Pic 1 one as well I think.

If this was taken at the bottom of South Street (The Moor) then we would be looking up a slight incline.

Even allowing for the elevated position of the camera - the road still runs 'downhill'

If it were the Moor we would be looking uphill would'nt we?

Originally posted by docmel
The perspective is all wrong on Pic 1 one as well I think.

If this was taken at the bottom of South Street (The Moor) then we would be looking up a slight incline.

Even allowing for the elevated position of the camera - the road still runs 'downhill'

If it were the Moor we would be looking uphill would'nt we?

The same perspective is apparent in the Picture Sheffield photo.

South Street ran almost to the bottom of London Road in those days, so there was a very slight incline prior to the climb up what is now The Moor.

That is if I'm not mistaken.

If you look at the tram tracks, there is an identical junction layout, the wire poles are identical tracework - we made our own in Sheffield - and the upper floors of the buildings are exactly the same architecture.

Must admit though, the road does seem to go downhill a bit steeply, but looking at a couple of the shop awnings - which aren't straight - this could be an optical illusion.

I agree with Saxon photo 1 looks like South Street. See the link to Picture Sheffield photo s00160.

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s00160

I have scanned a close up of a section of picture 2 and it looks to me that the trams are very similar to the trams in picture 1 (South Street - The Moor)?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/5.jpg

Photo 1 the shop on the rounded corner should be Shepherd Sawer confectioner 21O THE MOOR and the shop with the hanging letters should be Boots cash Chemist 202 THE MOOR

Boots is not there in 1901 but is in 1905 directory.

I doubt very much whether any of the three photos are of Sheffield. The one with the tram shows a Route H. Middlesbrough was one of the few towns to use route letters. Why not try there.

Originally posted by peterw
I doubt very much whether any of the three photos are of Sheffield. The one with the tram shows a Route H. Middlesbrough was one of the few towns to use route letters. Why not try there.

Sheffield used route letters aswell, as seen here at Tinsley tram sheds ('N' = Nether Edge route):

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/saxon51/s19347.jpg

It was assumed that the high rate of illiteracy at the turn of the century would make 'worded' destination boards a little too hard to grasp by most of the working population in Sheffield. The 'worded' destination boards only came in at about the time the photo would have been taken - 1901 to 1904. 'H' could possibly be the newly opened Heeley route.

The overhead wire poles are identical to the South Street ones aswell.

Boots is not there in 1901 but is in 1905 directory.

The above quote from retep would point to the photo being taken sometime after 1901 - Boots (which is clearly visible) wasn't there then, but before 1904 - when tram number 82 had a roof fitted.

That was a very good close up, Fourfive, from a very dark print.
Which application did you use please?

Originally posted by oldrowley
That was a very good close up, Fourfive, from a very dark print.
Which application did you use please?

I used Photoshop cs2.

Having collected old postcards, especially of Sheffield for more years than I care to remember I believe they are

1. Bottom of Ecclesall Road, where Waitrose is now, looking up Ecclesall Road.

2. Taken from High Street looking towards Coles Corner, Church Street on the right and Fargate on the left.

3. I think this is Glossop, the main road though, where the old market hall is.

You don't say what size they are, but they look like old magic lantern slides originally, if so, how interesting.

Originally posted by Mandem
Having collected old postcards, especially of Sheffield for more years than I care to remember I believe they are

1. Bottom of Ecclesall Road, where Waitrose is now, looking up Ecclesall Road.

2. Taken from High Street looking towards Coles Corner, Church Street on the right and Fargate on the left.

3. I think this is Glossop, the main road though, where the old market hall is.

You don't say what size they are, but they look like old magic lantern slides originally, if so, how interesting.

Thanks for your comments Mandem. The glass plates measure approx 80 cm2 and after looking around the net i would say that they are magic lantern slides. Now i would like to get good copys from them onto photo paper, any ideas anyone as to the best way?

The first one is The Moor.

The second is certainly the old Town Hall on Pinstone Street looking towards Fargate.

The third one looks like Trippet Lane but I'm not 100% sure about that one.

After flicking between picture no 3 and the link to Barnstaple posted by luvabulrogue. The white buildings in the middle of both pictures (on the left) do look like the same buildings and the writing definitley says 'Manufacturers Depot ..... & ..... Barsnstaple Art Pottery.

I agree with the last post, the first photo looks like the moor and my parents told me that there used to be trams running up and down. the other no. 2 photo does look like the leopold st junction.

Originally posted by Anj1364
After flicking between picture no 3 and the link to Barnstaple posted by luvabulrogue. The white buildings in the middle of both pictures (on the left) do look like the same buildings and the writing definitley says 'Manufacturers Depot ..... & ..... Barsnstaple Art Pottery.

Yes, I agree (still) it's definately Barnstaple, due to the sign and the fact he streets look the same, if now more modern.

I viewed it with an open mind, I didn't assume they were all Sheffield then tried to match the streets to the pictures.

I will pass pic 3 to the Barnstaple tourist board (if the authour doesn't mind) ? in order to get their view.

It would be weird if none were Sheffield, and they were all in Devon, Barnstaple, Exeter and Honiton !! for example.....

O.H. GODDEN Art Pottery were at High St Barnstaple

Originally posted by lovabulrogue
Yes, I agree (still) it's definately Barnstaple, due to the sign and the fact he streets look the same, if now more modern.

I viewed it with an open mind, I didn't assume they were all Sheffield then tried to match the streets to the pictures.

I will pass pic 3 to the Barnstaple tourist board (if the authour doesn't mind) ? in order to get their view.

It would be weird if none were Sheffield, and they were all in Devon, Barnstaple, Exeter and Honiton !! for example.....

Hi lovabulrogue, i have no objection to you contacting the Barnstaple tourist board.

Originally posted by lazarus
The second photo looks like the junction of West St/ Leopold St

Got to agree. The photographer is stood at the end of Tenter Street, the road that forks to the left is Church Street (if you look carefully you can just see the pillars outside what is now HSBC) and the right hand fork is Leopold Street (the building at the very end on the left is what is now Virgin Megastore). The building with the clock on it is NOT the Town Hall but what was the old Education buildings, which is now just a facade as they do some more building work.

Originally posted by Saxon
Got to agree. The photographer is stood at the end of Tenter Street, the road that forks to the left is Church Street (if you look carefully you can just see the pillars outside what is now HSBC) and the right hand fork is Leopold Street (the building at the very end on the left is what is now Virgin Megastore). The building with the clock on it is NOT the Town Hall but what was the old Education buildings, which is now just a facade as they do some more building work.

I showed these pics to my dad when I visite him in Sheffield yesterday - he is in his late eighties and went to school on Leopold Street before the building became education offices.

Before I read the comment above I had asked him if he thought the second pic was looking down Leopold Street from Tenter Street.

He is certain it is not - apart from anything alse the angle of the corber from 'Leopold Street' and 'Chuch Street' is too acute - the buildings there has a far gentler curve.

Given that he was growing up in the City Centre long before the lutwaffe and city planners got their hands on it he is convinced, as quite a few people here are now, that none of these pics were taken in Sheffield.

Originally posted by Saxon
Got to agree. The photographer is stood at the end of Tenter Street, .

Did you mean Tenter Street or the top of Townhead Street as Tenter Street is at the bottom of Townhead Street/Hawley Street and Leopold Street would not be visible?

Can any of the tram enthusiasts (I know there must be some) confirm that they are Sheffield?

Yep

Forgot to mention that - I shoudl have chanegd it to Townhead Street

Originally posted by alysonpeach
Can any of the tram enthusiasts (I know there must be some) confirm that they are Sheffield?

Not a tram 'enthusiast', but this photo of Sheffield tram no. 87 (from a book on Sheffield transport).................

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/saxon51/Untitled-TrueColor-01.jpg

.....................................would seem to indicate that tram no. 82 in photo 1 is one of its sister trams.

Study them side by side if you can.

And if you can do this, look at the window layouts, street furniture, shop fronts of photo 1, and the Picture Sheffield photo no. s00160 (South Street)

Originally posted by docmel
I showed these pics to my dad when I visite him in Sheffield yesterday - he is in his late eighties and went to school on Leopold Street before the building became education offices.

Before I read the comment above I had asked him if he thought the second pic was looking down Leopold Street from Tenter Street.

He is certain it is not - apart from anything alse the angle of the corber from 'Leopold Street' and 'Chuch Street' is too acute - the buildings there has a far gentler curve.

Given that he was growing up in the City Centre long before the lutwaffe and city planners got their hands on it he is convinced, as quite a few people here are now, that none of these pics were taken in Sheffield.


Hate to say 'I told you so' I still reckon they are all in the West Country.
3 is definately Barnstaple, no question.

Great thread!

Must admit I thought the same. None really have the feel of Sheffield, number three definitely isn't, and I can't imagine three prints being produced so similarly and kept together if they were of different places (although might be very wrong).

Fascinating thread though. Has anybody contacted Barnstable people yet?

EDIT - having said that, that tower on number two is really bugging me, cos I recognise it from somewhere............ and number two does have certain characteristics.......... and that building is so close to the old Cole Brothers... which would make the tower is exactly the right place for Telegraph house, but it isn't quite the right shape..........

EDIT - having said that again, Number One is blatantly the moor, as per the picturesheffield link above. The tram posts are identical!

integrated post

[i]

EDIT - having said that again, Number One is blatantly the moor, as per the picturesheffield link above. The tram posts are identical! [/B]

Yeh Wizard - despite what my Dad thinks having seen the Pictures Sheffield Photo that is teh same location....but not convinced at all about No 2

and I think we all agree that No 3 is definately not Sheffield, don't we?

Originally posted by JWPeatfield
Did you mean Tenter Street or the top of Townhead Street as Tenter Street is at the bottom of Townhead Street/Hawley Street and Leopold Street would not be visible?

I did mean Townhead Street/Trippet Lane corner, and that is definitely the view. Go there tomorrow with a print of the second photo, stand on the corner and you will see that is is definitely that one.

Look at these 2 links - the first one is from PictureSheffield and the second one is the second one mentioned at the start of this thread. Look at the chimneys and you will see they are identical.

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=u02662

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/2.jpg

Originally posted by fourfive
I have scanned a close up of a section of picture 2 and it looks to me that the trams are very similar to the trams in picture 1 (South Street - The Moor)?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/5.jpg

I have had a closer look at the wording on the building and its "Yates's Wine Lodge". So did sheffield have a Yates's at the turn of the century and if so where was it?

Originally posted by Saxon
I did mean Townhead Street/Trippet Lane corner, and that is definitely the view. Go there tomorrow with a print of the second photo, stand on the corner and you will see that is is definitely that one.

Look at these 2 links - the first one is from PictureSheffield and the second one is the second one mentioned at the start of this thread. Look at the chimneys and you will see they are identical.

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=u02662

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/2.jpg

Saxon, as much as I try I simply cannot see the comparison between these two pics.

Even forgetting the chimmney pots, the pic from Picture Sheffield shows a building with Dutch influenced frontage (the curved bits on the top) - they are nowhere to be seen on the picture from the thread.

Originally posted by Saxon
I did mean Townhead Street/Trippet Lane corner, and that is definitely the view. Go there tomorrow with a print of the second photo, stand on the corner and you will see that is is definitely that one.

Look at these 2 links - the first one is from PictureSheffield and the second one is the second one mentioned at the start of this thread. Look at the chimneys and you will see they are identical.

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=u02662

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/2.jpg
Now I'm getting confused! The pic from Picturesheffield is Church St/Leopold St, but you say the old photo is Townhead St/Trippet Lane, so what are we comparing?:confused:

Originally posted by TheRedWizard
Great thread!

Must admit I thought the same. None really have the feel of Sheffield, number three definitely isn't, and I can't imagine three prints being produced so similarly and kept together if they were of different places (although might be very wrong).

Fascinating thread though. Has anybody contacted Barnstable people yet?

EDIT - having said that, that tower on number two is really bugging me, cos I recognise it from somewhere............ and number two does have certain characteristics.......... and that building is so close to the old Cole Brothers... which would make the tower is exactly the right place for Telegraph house, but it isn't quite the right shape..........

EDIT - having said that again, Number One is blatantly the moor, as per the picturesheffield link above. The tram posts are identical!

Awaiting a reply from their Tourism office.

Fourfive — Hope you don’t mind, say if you do. I’ve taken off copies of your three pictures to give one of my employees lessons on enhancement via Photoshop CS2. If we come up with anything positive I’ll let you know and send you copies of the enhancements.

peterw — Peter Wright Graphics. Tel: 0161-798 4100 noon to 4pm.

peterw
i see that you put manchester as your location, being as Yates wine lodge originates from there,and around the time the photo was taken, does the photo with Yates look familiar to manchester.

I don't think 2 and 3 are from Sheffield. If you look into the far end of number one can any one else see vague outlines of buildings or is it just the glass? If it is buildings then this can't be the Moor as it ended with a moor.

Oops, forgot to read the other posts first!

fourfive and Saxon — It might or might not help but tram number 87 on enhancement is actually tram number 47 with a number 8 stuck over the 4! I’ll leave Saxon to sort that one out!

peterw

I have had a closer look at the wording on the building and its "Yates's Wine Lodge". So did sheffield have a Yates's at the turn of the century and if so where was it?

In that enhancement there is an 'arcade' running along what is alledged to be Leopold street, and the building behind the tram which would be the old education dept. clinic looks similar but not the same.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/5.jpg

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s17618

No doubt in my mind that photo1 is South Street looking up to St Paul's.

fourfive and Saxon — It might or might not help but tram number 87 on enhancement is actually tram number 47 with a number 8 stuck over the 4! I’ll leave Saxon to sort that one out!

peterw

This photo of tram 87(?) which is scanned from a book of Sheffield transport is as it appears in the book. I can see the discrepancy around the number 8, but if it was originally 47 this fact isn't mentioned. In fact, according to the book, number 47 was a single decker and a photo of it bears no resemblance to this type of tram.

It says on the caption that this is how it was delivered, so I wonder whether it left the makers carrying 47, but was renumbered 87 (with a temporary stick-on) on entering the Sheffield fleet.

It is identical in all aspects to the number 82 in the original post, but nothing like the 47 - and sister models - as shown in the book.

Saxon — Manchester’s changed a lot over the years. Yates Brewery was bombed during the war but parts of it were standing when I arrived in the city. It stood at the junction of Ashton Old Road and Pin Fold Lane and it WAS tram route. It could well be seen as Manchester except for the fact that (a) Pinfold Lane was a short hill — still is — rising to its junction with Ashton Old Road, and Manchester’s trams (although possibly not the earlier ones) had two, four-wheeled bogies. It may take me time because I’m disabled, but I will check for you. Both Ashton New Road and Pin Fold Lane were tram routes but your photo does not have a corresponding crossover.

Saxon — found a picture we enhanced of a tram in Piccadilly, Manchester, at the turn of the century (circa 1901). It has just the four wheels but No alphabetical route letter. We can actually see its destination board — which was ‘a board’! Don’t think your picture is Manchester, but it was worth a try!

Fourfive — Hope you don’t mind, say if you do. I’ve taken off copies of your three pictures to give one of my employees lessons on enhancement via Photoshop CS2. If we come up with anything positive I’ll let you know and send you copies of the enhancements.

peterw — Peter Wright Graphics. Tel: 0161-798 4100 noon to 4pm.

Hi peterw, You are welcome to do what you want with the pictures. You can have use of the originals if you think you can do anything with them.

Thanks fourfive — one pic is too dark to do a great deal with, but my lads are having a go at the other two. When they’ve finished, you’re welcome to the prints. I’ll let you know when.

Can you identify these three old photo's. They are all on glass plates and are from around the 1900's? They are supposed to have been taken in the sheffield area, but i dont recognise anything. In the centre of photo 3 the sign says "Symons hair cutting and shaving rooms".
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/3.jpg

1 The moor (looking from moorfoot)

2 Junction of High street & Church Street

3 Don't Know

It’s peterw back again. The entrance to Yates Brewery was not on a corner, it was on Ashton Old Road and looks nothing like the photograph so I think you can rule out Manchester. Best wishes.

By the way, I live in what is essentially a Jewish community and I am about to send out a brochure to businesses, some of which will be Jewish. I’ve included one photograph and told prospective readers that the clue to its location could lie in the fact that there is a Symons (Jewish name) haircutting and shaving rooms half way up on the left. It might ring someone’s bell!

Well !!

After weeks of awaiting a reply from the Devon tourism board with regards to the possible Barnstaple picture, I finally had a reply from them. They are please to announce that the high street with the hill in the foreground - here http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/3.jpg is infact in Ilfracombe, not Barnstaple. So I was near as damn it, right on that one.

If you look at todays high st picture, you can see why, those local to it (and in the know) say it is.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ilfracombe-inf.devon.sch.uk/sg4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ilfracombe-inf.devon.sch.uk/our%2520town%25204.htm&h=204&w=272&sz=20&tbnid=VVHpgvEmxR6L6M:&tbnh=81&tbnw=108&hl=en&start=8&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dimages%2Bof%2Bilfracombe%2Bhigh%2Bstr eet%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

There are a few pic's if you type in Ilfracombe High stree into Google and click Images.

Just need to find out the other two now !! This is one of the best threads on here in my opinion.

Let me know your thoughts on the comparison.

Rogue.

lovabulrogue — Sorry mate, think again! Seen the Ilfracombe images and the only piece of street furniture that looks similar is the gas lamp! Not one of the buildings match on either side of the road. There should be at least one of the same era but there isn’t. Agreed there’s a bit of a hill in the background, but that’s about all. It seems we’re all clutching at straws! I’m going for either hilly Derbyshire, hilly Yorkshire or the mountainous Lake District. I’m as interested as you are about finding this location, but Ilfracombe it is NOT.

lovabulrogue — Sorry mate, think again! Seen the Ilfracombe images and the only piece of street furniture that looks similar is the gas lamp! Not one of the buildings match on either side of the road. There should be at least one of the same era but there isn’t. Agreed there’s a bit of a hill in the background, but that’s about all. It seems we’re all clutching at straws! I’m going for either hilly Derbyshire, hilly Yorkshire or the mountainous Lake District. I’m as interested as you are about finding this location, but Ilfracombe it is NOT.

PM me, I have more information, I would like to know what you think.

The quest continues? What is the further information?

I thought http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/1.jpg was settled? http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s00160
. Must be. The street furniture is spot on and the tram posts are identical aren't they (he says, going back to have another look)?

yep - that one is definite.

As for Ilfracombe, I'm really not sure. I've flicked through all 20 pages or so of the google images, including victorian ones, and they're not conclusive.

I know I will get abuse for this, but humour me and have a look at these pictures of Devon please.

I won't tell you which ones to look @ over the 3 pages, you decide which ones are similar to the ones we are discussing, if any. If they are not any of the pictures we are discussing, at least appreciate the bloody uncanny likeness, same architect perhaps ??

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.footstepsphotos.co.uk/Devon/dev089.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.footstepsphotos.co.uk/Devon/devp3.htm&h=126&w=192&sz=5&tbnid=ve8il7Wt9Tzc6M:&tbnh=64&tbnw=98&hl=en&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dderrys%2Bclock%2Bplymouth%26svnum%3D1 0%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

I agree there’s an uncanny likeness to Fore Street, Totnes. It would be interesting to know when the church at the far end was built. It hides part of the outline of the hill. I’m guessing it was built around 1860-70 which would rule it out.

I agree there’s an uncanny likeness to Fore Street, Totnes. It would be interesting to know when the church at the far end was built. It hides part of the outline of the hill. I’m guessing it was built around 1860-70 which would rule it out.

And on page 3, Pic 89 (Derrys clock) if that was on top of the building on the right, then that would be weird. Perhaps a lot of towns/cities were similar.

I still think one of them is Devon !!

'The thick plottens'

Hi, my boyfriend seems pretty deffinate that picture# 1 with the tram is in sheffield as all the early tram routes in sheffield had letters for their destinations and not the full name, will try and find out more if i can.

Can you identify these three old photo's. They are all on glass plates and are from around the 1900's? They are supposed to have been taken in the sheffield area, but i dont recognise anything. In the centre of photo 3 the sign says "Symons hair cutting and shaving rooms".
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c158/fourfive/3.jpg
interesting photo's. not sure but no1 could be from the bottom of the moor looking up towards town (where manpower services building is now) tram tracks going to our left would be for ecclesall rd.
No 2 looks to be taken from the top of fargate with wilson pecks on the right and barkers pool and timpsons corner in front.
No 3 for some reason heeley bottom comes to mind especially with the hills in the background.
Hope this helps.

It’s peterw again — not exactly throwing a spanner in the works. This time, questions. Question 1. Did Sheffield trams ever terminate at the bottom of The Moor? Look closely at jpg2 and you’ll see that beyond the tram there are no tracks. When was the Sheffield and Ecclesall Co-op built?

Again, I’m only guessing but the I believe the picture could be at the bottom of The Moor. The road to the right is Ecclesall Road, the road in the middle is Cemetery Road and the road to the left is London Road — all of them before they had tram tracks.

The Co-op, for those who don’t remember, backed on to Cemetery Road and had an arcade.

Forgot to mention, jpg1. If this was the view looking from the bottom of The Moor up to the City Centre, (another question) wouldn’t the former St. Paul’s Church, which stood on the site of the Peace Gardens, obscure the view of the Town Hall?

Hi,

Interesting photographs.

I'm almost certain that Photo.#1 is a view looking up the Moor, towards Town. There are a number of other photos. floating around in various books, etc. that show basically the same view.

Apart from the buildings in the haze (more likely smog) in the background which are difficult to identify, the give-away are the stone pillars and railings on the extreme right. These were along the front yard of what used to be Brunswick Methodist Church. This was a fine old stone building, complete with pillars, that used to sit opposite the bottom of Ecclesall Road. It was still there in the late 1940s/early 50s - as some kind of furniture store I think - but was demolised to make way for St Mary's Gate.

Don't be fooled by the tram track. Remember, in the beginning, the tramways were privately owned and horse-drawn. They were still horse drawn when the Sheffield Corporation took them over early last century. The corporation did the electrification.

When horse-drawn, trams went along the Moor and up London Road. They also went up Cemetery Road to Nether Edge. That's the track turn-out you see on the photo. They did not run on every major road. A tram service up Ecclesall Road came later.

Soon after the electrification, the junction was dug-up and the connection made to go up Ecclesall Road. I'm was told that the street was torn-up for weeks while the work was done and caused a lot disruption. Can't remember when they stopped the tram service to Nether Edge.

I don't think Photo. #2 & #3 are of Sheffield. I don't recognize any of the buildings.

Photo.2 looks like it could be looking up High Street at what used to be Coles Corner but as someone has already pointed out, the perspective is wrong. The tram track is also in the wrong place. finally, I don't recognize the clock tower on the right either.

Photo 3 shows a split level section of street on the left. The only street I remember that was like this was the start of Barnsley Road at the Toll Bar in Pitsmoor. Pitsmoor was never so well developed as shown on the photo.

Hi Falls — We’ve been doing some enhancement on these photographs. Not completed yet but the ‘haze’ in the background hasn’t been a problem. We’ve used Photoshop CS2’s magnetic lassoo to cling on to the available pixels and discovered that the tall “building” on the right is actually the top of another building, looking at it sideways on. So, you can forget about that. The tram in the other picture isn’t a horse tram so my questions are relevant. I agree it’s more than likely The Moor at Ecclesall Road, and as a child living at Sharrow I well remember the old church at the bottom. Nice to hear your views. I don’t doubt that eventually all our questions, and the mysteries of the photographs will be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.

jpeg 1: Th sign on the left is ‘Boots the Chemist’. The sign on the right is ‘Typhoo Tea’. Electric trams began in Sheffield in 1899. Find out where Boots The Chemist was around the turn of that century and you’ve got the location. Hoorah!

Just had a look at picturs of St. Paul’s Church. It had a tower and a dome, not a steeple. The town hall wasn’t even built.

Picture 2 looks like the bottom of Fargate looking towards where the HSBC bank is... fargate runs to the left and Church Street runs to the right of the picture and the clock tower you can see on the right maybe 'Telegraph House'

just a guess really...

Picture 2 looks like the bottom of Fargate looking towards where the HSBC bank is... fargate runs to the left and Church Street runs to the right of the picture and the clock tower you can see on the right maybe 'Telegraph House'

just a guess really...

We've already been through that one - the architecture is wrong. Next Guess!

jpeg 1: Th sign on the left is ‘Boots the Chemist’. The sign on the right is ‘Typhoo Tea’. Electric trams began in Sheffield in 1899. Find out where Boots The Chemist was around the turn of that century and you’ve got the location. Hoorah!

Boots was on Snig Hill - opened in 1884 it was the first outside Nottingham.....

I go along with all the posts earlier, and that we need to look beyond Sheffield for two of them.

quote, The town hall wasn’t even built.

Can you enlighten us.

Do we have a date for the photos, or just the approximate decade?

peterw, the town hall was built in the early/ mid 1890s, in time for the golden jubilee of Queen Victoria, in 1897. She came on a royal visit to Sheffield and officially "opened" the Town Hall then. So, unless the photo in question was pre-1890 or so, then the Town Hall would have existed. (and I think we've concluded that their dates are approx 1900 to 1910, havent we?)

I am wracking my brains, because I cannot match the rooflines up to anything I remember/know or have seen in other old photos.

Like a few others in this thread, I am not sure that the location is Sheffield.

PT

Plain Talker — Sorry about the town hall date, put it down to old age! I got it wrong! However, the old church would have obscured its view, and it did have a tower and a dome and there isn’t one. I’m not even sure about bottom of The Moor now that the best clue — Boots The Chemist — has been shot down, unless of course they opened a branch on The Moor? I agree the other two are not Sheffield, but if the first one is Sheffield, how about looking closer to home and try Rotherham? The question then is when did Sheffield Transport Department secure running rights into Rotherham?

PS — Rotherham trams began in 1903

I've just spent some time comparing the 'South St - Moor' photos and there are too many identical features for the questionable photo to be anything other than South St.

I have made up a comparitive image with key points labelled. I still feel that the tram ( no. 82) in the questionable one is a Sheffield tram which entered service in 1900, but had a roof fitted in 1904. This would mean the photo being taken during that period and would indicate that Boots the chemist was either installed or removed (or even re-signed) during this period.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/saxon51/Comparativephoto.jpg


And this image shows how far apart the two towers were for comparison................................http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/saxon51/s02149.jpg

Photo 1 the shop on the rounded corner should be Shepherd Sawer confectioner 21O THE MOOR and the shop with the hanging letters should be Boots cash Chemist 202 THE MOOR

Boots is not there in 1901 but is in 1905 directory.

Read back over the thread, and this quote from retep confirms the 1901 - 1904 time-span and concurs with the tram details which appear in my previous post. ;)

Enjoyed the paintings. Very nice, in fact excellent. They’re what I’d call a bit of pleasant relief from the trams. Do you think we’ll all ever agree?

By the way, if anyone wants to know how I know the sign on the left is Boots The Chemist, we are using custom-built software that allows us to see the buildings head on, so to speak.

We've already been through that one - the architecture is wrong. Next Guess!

oh pardon me for breathing....:P

Ok - regarding Picture One

There is a more modern pic of the bottom of the moor here:

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s00216

If nothing else look at the shape of the first, second and top floor windows of teh building on the left

From all the evidence so far, I think we can safely say that picture #1 IS Sheffield - South St_The Moor - taken between 1901 and 1904.

The building in Docmel's link looks as though it might be a replacement for a bomb damaged section of the old frontage. Architecture either side is as per early 1900's.

oh pardon me for breathing....:P


You're pardonned!!!! ;)

having seen the comparative photos, i'm convinced jpg1 is from bottom of the moor.
Still pretty sure jpg2 is from fargate looking towards barkers pool. on the left of barkers pool you can see the regent cinema (later the gaumont). This was built in 1927 to give an earliest date possible if correct.
jpg3 still reminds me of heeley bottom. there was a kink in the road on the left if i'm not mistaken, (and i probably am), is it still there? (can't quite see to check from here.)

The first photo is most definitely at the bottom of The Moor known in those days South Street Moor at Ecclesall Road Junction. The "H" on the tram indicates it is travelling to Heeley.

How others think that it is not in Sheffield is a mystery. In the far distance the Town Hall is very prominent.

The second photo is Talbot Square Blackpool. The famous Yate's Wine Lodge is in the centre of the photo.

Looks good to me,
google'd a postcard on ebay looks very similar

The first photo is most definitely at the bottom of The Moor known in those days South Street Moor at Ecclesall Road Junction. The "H" on the tram indicates it is travelling to Heeley.

How others think that it is not in Sheffield is a mystery. In the far distance the Town Hall is very prominent.

The second photo is Talbot Square Blackpool. The famous Yate's Wine Lodge is in the centre of the photo.


WELL DONE TRANSPORTFAN!!!!

Just look at the pics at this link:

http://www.cyberpictures.net/blackpool/william.htm

They were taken in 1962 but just one look at the architecture confirms it.



So...

Picture 1 - Bottom of Moor

Picture 2 - Talbot Square Blackpool.

Picture 3 - High Street Barnstaple


Are we done?...... been a great thread tho'

I don't think we're quite done yet - Ilfracombe replaced Barnstable as a possibility, but still no conclusive photos.

Great shout for the Blackpool photo!