Todays Headline (in case you missed it by some quirk of fate)


Exodus
As we face a flood of immigrants from Eastern Europe thousands of Fed up britons...are making a new life in Spain

Anyone else find this ... well ... hilarious?

I can just imagine the headline in El Pais:

Diaspora
As we face a flood of immigrants from Northern Europe, thousands of fed up Spaniards ... are making a new life in the Slovak Republic.


and from the Bratislava Daily Examiner

Flee!
As we face a flood of immigrants from the Iberian peninsula, thousands of fed up slovaks ... are making a new life in Britain.


Plus ca change eh?

It's the juxtaposition of the 2 items:

As we face a flood of immigrants from Eastern Europe thousands of Fed up britons...are making a new life in Spain

that I find amusing. It implies that one is leading to the other when in fact fed up Britons have been making new lives in Spain for many years.

Just an observation but perhaps these fed up Britons are leaving for pastures new because they can't stand the thought of immigrants coming here to claim benefits and abuse the NHS. We are the only place (as far as I'm aware) that gives free health service to anyone living within these shores.

However if they are in spain and require health, everyone is in the same boat (i.e. they need insurance to get health treatment) thus they feel they aren't paying to support people (maybe a minority but still is a factor) to exploit our benefits and NHS.

We are extremely highly taxed as it is. Maybe it's not the fact that these people are coming here, I have no objections to migrants comign to live and work and contribute to the UK. However I take exception at those who are coming here to exploit the benefits and NHS.

It does happen, I see it happen everyday.
It's not all, so I welcome the people coming here who are going to contribute to our economy in a possitive way.

Maybe that is the veiw point of these 'thousands' of Britons leaving for spain???

Just my observation!

I still find it difficult to believe that someone would pay 10s of thousands of pounds to a people smuggler to come here to claim benefits.

In today's Sun, left open on somebody's desk, there was an article about someone on benefits who has taken 17 years to claim IN TOTAL £40,000. That's about how much it costs to get a family of 4 from Bosnia to Britain.

You do the sums 'cos in my book it just doesn't add DaB, sorry.

Max that's if they did it the illegal way. The migrants can come here totally legally as and when they become part of the EU.

And yes £40,000 mya not be much, but when they dont have to work for it then it's a more tempting option.
However not all migrants are coming here for the benefits, that I fully accept and know from personal experience.

However a hell of a lot are coming here for free health service... which is I'm afraid to say a fact. No ammount of money can put a price on that max.

They can come over on a sodding EasyJet flight nowadays and just don't bother going back... It's not as though we make much of an effort to kick 'em back out.

What made me laugh was twofold (threefold thanks to Max)

1.)The double biblical reference like it was some apocalypse or something. Exodus - throwing off your chains and going to the promised land (Marbella) and Flood - the Biblical flood, a blank page upon which to write a new history.

2)The implicit suggestion that it may be right for a Brit to emigrate due to home pressures, but not for a Slovak or Lithuanian. All in the same sentence. Are they not aware?

This might not be to everyones taste but it is a flash program on asylum seekers.

Link removed

Erm, £40,000 in 17 years works out at £2,352 a year. Woopee. They must really live the high life on that.

What I don't understand is how people can be angry when people move into our country, but think it's perfectly fine to do the same to other people.

If their was a civil war in England and we wanted to move to somewhere more peaceful, what would you think if, when you arrived, they put you in prison for a year, made you take exams on the country you arrived in (in another language) and then sent you back to the war??? How can anyone can think that is right?

I'm not suggesting they should be allowed to sponge off our system, but if you look at the figures (recently published, check BBCi) you'll see that only about 30,000 people arrive each year and even less of those are accepted, whilst the Birtish settle all over the world and refuse to learn local languages when they do!(rant over)

The article about the £40k in 17 years though was to do with some women who has never done a days work in her life (at least I think it was the same article :P) and she has recently had her Job Seekers benefit stopped - rightly so as well, can't believe she got away with it this long to be honest.

Originally posted by Skatiechik
This might not be to everyones taste but it is a flash program on asylum seekers.

Link deleted - mod

But is it a good program, or does it preach to the converted, telling the ignorant xenophobes amongst us what we want to hear, i.e They are coming over here for our jobs/money/women/land/farm animals/gold/ (delete as applicable)

It's ill informed rubbish (imo) and has been discussed already, elsewhere on this forum here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&postid=70923#post70923)

Also, it should have been pulled because of the unauthorised use of Pet Shop Boys single, which they are less than happy about

And thirdly it is hosted by a rather bizarre bunch of
English Nationalists who have some, er, interesting opinions. (wtg Max please dont edit the link in this post though (check the url))

On a digression, did anyone catch the story about the BNP councillor who is suing ASLEF and a few others over being characterised as racist?

Originally posted by fnkysknky
...she has recently had her Job Seekers benefit stopped - rightly so as well, can't believe she got away with it this long to be honest.

I agree. Job seekers allowance should be to help people look for work! You met a mate of mine the other day who is just as bad... nice bloke but not prepared to actually do anything for the money. I see people like him in the same light as anyone who bums around on the dole all the time, but fail to see how this is specific to asylum seekers!! I mean, people will complain if they "take our jobs", and complain if they stay on benefit, but are happy to go and live in, say, Spain if it suits them at the time!!! People are :loopy: !!!

I appreciate what you're saying Dan and you are correct in some respects, but this is where I see a difference.

Allow me to put this to you.
Some (definately not all, but a minority of) immigrants from these new EU countries (from very impoverished countries) will come to the UK, not to find work or to contribute to the economy in a possitive way, but rather to take advantage of not having to work for a living. Also they will be coming here to take advantage of our free NHS. This isn't speculation... this is fact (I work for a government department and am used these figures).

I understand that the majority are coming here to improve their quality of life by getting jobs which py decent (by their standards( wages (obviously I understand a lot will be getting jobs that some 'native' Britons dont want). This I have NO problem with. Why? This is because they are paying taxes like me, and contributing to the good of the country like me (and like max, and like Phan, and like Geoff).

The minority coming here to exploit the NHS are immigrants I dont want here. Why? Because why should I pay for them to get free treatment when they dont contribute. It's a simple case of you scratch my back I scratch yours. Now let me make this point very clear. I have no problem with migrants of the new EU countries coming to work in the UK period. I only have a problem with the minority of those coming here to exploit what I pay my taxes for.

I am also aware that there are plenty of 'native' Britons here exploiting our resources and my taxes... I'm not bloody happy about this either.

Now these thousands of Britons moving to spain i feel is a different kettle of fish (what a term eh;) ). These Britons are moving to another EU country to contribute to the economy in a possitive way, they are going because they know when they need health treatment they have to have insurance to have this. Everyone native and immigrant alike are ALL in the same boat. No one person can take advantage of the system.

Yes there will be some of these Britons moving to spain because they have prejudice views and feel ALL migrants are coming here to exploit our benefits and NHS. All we can do about those is educate them and try to dispell their fears and apprehensions.

Now is there anything I have said above that has made you feel that I am a Xenophobe/racist/bigot/nob for expressing those views. Or do you think that it makes sense?

So just how many immigrants come here just to exploit the NHS?

Anyone got a real figure, and not the rubbish spouted by the tabloids?

That's the million £ question. no figure can be given because nofigure can be proven. All the figures are based on is how long it takes some to get work over others. No government department would be able to give you a cast iron figure.

I'd say (from what I have seen) the percentage is smaller than what is scaremongered in the tabloids and by the BNP.
However the fact remains is there are some, and those are the ones which need to be monitored carefully and have procedures in place to stop this from happening.

The ban on claiming benefits for X amount of years by Tony Blair is a good step. However it is not really feasible to give the same ban for usage of the NHS.
However some procedures could be setup to stop this from happening. I.e Insurance for any NHS requirements for the first 2 yrs perhaps!

We will always be number one target.

DB I'm still not sure that allowing economics migrants here to work is in the long term a good idea.

We may have skills shortages in certain field but don't you think that we should be investing in retaining programmes for our own citizens?

Then what about the countries that these people are leaving behind. Do we have a right to drain skills away from their economies making the situation even worse for the remainder of the population.

How about the effects on wages in this country? Newsnight (I think) a couple of weeks ago had a pediatrician on who was coming over from Eastern Europe and was on a salary equivalent to 10k. Over here she could epect to earn 50k. She was highly skilled and I've no doubt at all would be a great asset to this country but she would probably come over to work for 20k - still double her salary from home. Where does this put our workers in terms of negotiating. It will be used to keep wages down IMO.

1 qualified doctor willing to work for £20k isnt going to push down wages. As soon as this Dr realised the living costs over here I'm pretty sure she'd go where the money is and hey presto..... wages back up again;)

The point I'm making is not those willing to work. If they are willing to work... fine by me! The point I wanted to make is those who aren't willing to work.

Thinking on the scale of things like 'Our own citizens' is not forward planetary thinking and has no basis in a world which needs to move on from it's prejudices of where people are born.

The only objection I have is to the minority who will come here to claim benefits and take advantage of the NHS. It's not a lot but it's enough to matter. Those willing to work... I'm happy to call my fellow citizen!

DB you have read our 'own citizens' = white. There are plenty of people living in this country who are black, brown and yellow who are unemployed and therefore could be retrained. Bringing others in to do their jobs is galling. I know people who have been made redundant but who are the wrong side of 40 who would grab the chance to be retrained for a career change.

When did I say anywhere that I thought you just meant 'white' by saying 'Our Own Citizens'???

If these reduntees are happy to retrain then why dont they?
People coming here to work are already trained... and if they aren't they will get unskilled jobs, which will make your friends over 40 that have been made redundant have the same chance of getting these unskilled jobs. In actual fact your friend will have a better chance because they already speak English.

Maybe it's your own prejudices coming out with that white comment Mo. I never said anything of the sort!

Moral question: If someone you knew was very ill and the only way you could cure them was by stealing the cure, would you do it?


Moral question: If you were sick, and the only way you could be cured was by moving to another country that you'd never contributed any taxes to and using their healthcare service, would you do it?

Well there are obvious answers to both of those questions Funky Dave and I dont think I need to spell them out.

However not everyone who comes here to abuse the NHS (that includes britons that have left the UK only to come back for free healthcare when it suits) are so ill and poor they cannot find alternative means (including insured health care).

There are always two sides to every coin!