Having looked at the topic of the guy who apparently committed suicide early yesterday on the motorway causing huge chaos traffic wise- a rather weird thought came to mind which I'd like to share with you all if I may.

Please understand, I do feel very sad that someone needs to take their own life especially at this time of year so I do send my condolences of the person at this time.

HOWEVER

It strikes me that in all the suicide cases I've read of or heard of on this forum- WHY does the person committing suicide have to choose a way to kill themselves that gives the act maximum attention and causes the most chaos for other people?

Especially yesterdays events on the motorway.

WHY?

I dont get it at all, if you feel the need to top yourself, god forbid- why do you have to do it somewhere public and bring maximum attention to what you are doing?

Yes it is a cry for help I agree but why the need to bring yourself into the center of attention for doing so?

i suppose it carries on that cry for help, getting people to want to know why you couldn't carry on

don't the police currently have an open investigation into that case and haven't said anything about whether he fell, jumped or was pushed from the bridge?

If we are going to speculate wildly about an event of which we have little knowledge:

Plenty of people jump in front of trains and tube trains every year. Drivers suffer horribly. People are delayed. Trains are cancelled etc.

This is different?

I'm taking it as he jumped.
May be wrong- but at this stage, I think thats the more likely option.

let the police know, it would save them lots of time actually investigation what happened.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
If we are going to speculate wildly about an event of which we have little knowledge:

Plenty of people jump in front of trains and tube trains every year. Drivers suffer horribly. People are delayed. Trains are cancelled etc.

This is different? And theres also plenty who do it in private and don't involve anyone.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
If we are going to speculate wildly about an event of which we have little knowledge:

Plenty of people jump in front of trains and tube trains every year. Drivers suffer horribly. People are delayed. Trains are cancelled etc.

This is different?

WHY though?

Why do they have to jump in front of a train, tram or tube when they know the driver is going to be affected, the people on the station or witnesses are going to be affected, and certainly the people picking up bits of body are going to be affected as well- seems a little selfish to me to be quite honest.

It is all the same.

The suicide victim knows what they are going to do- why do they have to cause maximum publicity for themselves and cause the maximum of horror for everyone else?

I'd say selfishness- I know it sounds horrible, but it needs to be said.

I too have sympathy for the family of this person (if indeed they did commit suicide). But would it not be a total nightmare for a law abiding road user going about their business to think that they unwittingly become the mechanism of suicide for somebody who wishes to end their life.

I understand the level of turmoil that exists for someone in the depths of despair, but the pain that would be caused to my family by my act was enough to stop me when I was considering suicide. A friend killed himself, and for months afterwards everyone that had been around him tortured themselves over what they could have done to prevent the suicide or to spot the signs, and either supported him better or found appropriate help from anyone from the Samaritans to the NHS. It was the cruelest of situations.

Can you imagine being the train or truck driver that someone jumps in front of? Innocent bystander to killer (albeit unwilling) in 2 seconds flat. How are they supposed to cope with that?

I believe that a person's life is their own, and that the choice to end that life is theirs too, and that people who are in extremis and who may feel that they have no other options in life should not be committing a crime by choosing to cease living, but I also agree with your sentiment angelus, especially on behalf of the poor truck driver who called the police thinking that they'd hit a dog, only to find out that it was a person. I imagine that his peace of mind is severely impacted, and my thoughts go out to him.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
WHY though?

Why do they have to jump in front of a train, tram or tube when they know the driver is going to be affected, the people on the station or witnesses are going to be affected, and certainly the people picking up bits of body are going to be affected as well- seems a little selfish to me to be quite honest.

It is all the same.

The suicide victim knows what they are going to do- why do they have to cause maximum publicity for themselves and cause the maximum of horror for everyone else?

I'd say selfishness- I know it sounds horrible, but it needs to be said.

if they are suicidal then they aren't exactly rational and thinking straight, so explaining their motives may be far from simple.

Might want to look at http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20814&highlight=suicide+train think it was covered here.

notoreity....that's why!! (if I have spelt correctly)

Some people crave it!!

Gone with a bang...they're hell bent on killing themselves and cannot be saved but wanna go with people knowing!

That's my interpretation anyhow!

:(

Originally posted by Shiesh
notoreity....that's why!! (if I have spelt correctly)

Some people crave it!!

Gone with a bang...they're hell bent on killing themselves and cannot be saved but wanna go with people knowing!

That's my interpretation anyhow!

:( Total CR*P

Originally posted by medusa666
I too have sympathy for the family of this person (if indeed they did commit suicide). But would it not be a total nightmare for a law abiding road user going about their business to think that they unwittingly become the mechanism of suicide for somebody who wishes to end their life.

I understand the level of turmoil that exists for someone in the depths of despair, but the pain that would be caused to my family by my act was enough to stop me when I was considering suicide. A friend killed himself, and for months afterwards everyone that had been around him tortured themselves over what they could have done to prevent the suicide or to spot the signs, and either supported him better or found appropriate help from anyone from the Samaritans to the NHS. It was the cruelest of situations.

Can you imagine being the train or truck driver that someone jumps in front of? Innocent bystander to killer (albeit unwilling) in 2 seconds flat. How are they supposed to cope with that?

I believe that a person's life is their own, and that the choice to end that life is theirs too, and that people who are in extremis and who may feel that they have no other options in life should not be committing a crime by choosing to cease living, but I also agree with your sentiment angelus, especially on behalf of the poor truck driver who called the police thinking that they'd hit a dog, only to find out that it was a person. I imagine that his peace of mind is severely impacted, and my thoughts go out to him.

Totally agree with you :thumbsup:

I do feel a hell of a lot of sympathy for people who feel at their lowest ebb but there is always someone that could help them, if they choose not to get help I cannot feel sorry for them.

Two of my school friends killed themselves as well, one I was quite close to when I was younger decided to kill himself on his mums birthday by hanging himself- his mum found him- on her birthday.. that for me was the most selfish thing that anyone could ever do- and for me, that tainted the memory of the person for good, the grief it caused to that family was horrible.

The 2nd school friend decided to kill himself by gassing himself in a cooker, again, another selfish way to go because his family found him- again.. maximum effect caused to all involved.

I pass a few suicide spots on the way to work where flowers have been placed in memory of the victim- most of these cases have been in the media over the past couple of years- one is a tree where a lad hung himself because he was being bullied, the tree is sited next to a busy road- AGAIN causing maximum horror for the people to witness whats happened.

Its a very worrying trend I have to admit.

you seem very concerned with the effect on other people.
The effect on the dead person is a whole lot more profound.

Originally posted by Bikertec
Total CR*P

I disagree with you.
I think that Shiesh might be right there.

Why do people in that state still need to crave notoriety for their actions?

Why do they need to think that they will be centre of attention if only for a short time for what they are doing?

Maybe it gives them some kind of ego boost or reason for doing what they are doing.

I find it baffling.

Originally posted by Cyclone
you seem very concerned with the effect on other people.
The effect on the dead person is a whole lot more profound.

To quote Spock "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

Very true words spoken there I think.

Yes, its bad that someone feels the need to resort to this but I think the impact they leave on the minds of others is worse.

I think you should look, no study Mental illness and depression before you post anymore because you just haven't got a clue.

Originally posted by Bikertec
I think you should look, no study Mental illness and depression before you post anymore because you just haven't got a clue.

I probably dont have a clue, very true, but I find it bizarre that people seem to feel they need to have a bit of attention on themselves before committing such an act.

I have been in a very big depression before so I can comment on that, never though, have I been tempted to take my life, but I suppose it depends on people circumstances though.

Originally posted by Bikertec
I think you should look, no study Mental illness and depression before you post anymore because you just haven't got a clue.

Well then enlighten us instead of just ''crushing'' our opinions as crap!!

Why do people travel 300 miles + to throw themselves off Beachy Head????

If they are 'hell bent'' on doing the deed and it isn't a ''cry for help'' why not just take an overdose and go to bed etc??

Please understand, we just assume they want their ''final act'' to have some sort of recognition!!

Originally posted by Shiesh
Well then enlighten us instead of just ''crushing'' our opinions as crap!!

Why do people travel 300 miles + to throw themselves off Beachy Head????

If they are 'hell bent'' on doing the deed and it isn't a ''cry for help'' why not just take an overdose and go to bed etc??

Please understand, we just assume they want their ''final act'' to have some sort of recognition!! You want enlightenment ring the Samaritans I sure they could give you some insight. What pills do you suggest and is it 100% :mad:

People who commit suicide are not trying to make themselves the centre of attention. This is a misconception. Nor do they commit suicide in order to cause "most chaos for other people". People who commit suicide simply choose a method to end their lives which provides them with a degree of success.

There are broadly two categories of suicides, which, roughly speaking can be called spontaneous and premeditated.

There are those who are emotional distraught, e.g., bullied children, lovers who've had a tiff, students who can't cope with exams, and similar. The most common methods of suicide by such people are a fatal overdose, self-poisoning, hanging and bleeding to death through severence of an artery. Before the advent of North Sea gas, gassing yourself in the kitchen oven was an extremely prevelant method.

There are those who are suffering from some form of mental ill health, including severe clinical depression, who end their lives in these ways as well. However, their suicide is less often spontaneous, and more often planned. This category include the jumpers. They jump from a substantial height, usually a cliff or bridge, and jump into water, hard earth, concrete or tarmac - all of which will usually guarantee their death. Other jumpers will choose to throw themselves under a train, into the path of fast moving vehicles, under the wheels of a heavy lorry, and similar. It is believed that those who choose such methods give no thought to the distress they will cause to the train or lorry driver, etc., because they are totally obsessed and determined to end their lives.

I make my observations from professional practice, having assessed many failed suicidal patients for compulsory admission to psychiatric hospital.

Originally posted by Bikertec
You want enlightenment ring the Samaritans I sure they could give you some insight. What pills do you suggest and is it 100% :mad:

Now you are just being silly!!

Yet I am making serious comment....please don't humour me on this subject!!

IMO if you commit such an horrendous act to yourself you have either a fixation with ''notoriety'' or you ''hate'' yourself sooo badly you want to cause ''nasty'' damage to your body!

If you really feel you want your world to end (full stop) there are other ways without inflicting disruption to others!

I appreciate many suicides are ''opportunist'' etc but many are well planned yet still they go to extreme trouble to make the 'deed' as 'messy' as possible for others!

:rant:

Further to redrobbo's post- maybe that's the line that gets crossed that makes the difference between people who contemplate suicide and those who actually attempt it- caring enough about others to place their needs and pain on the priorities list.

On the one occasion that I was actually serious enough about suicide to take the pills I didn't consider my family or others, just myself and how I felt, and how I couldn't go on as I was (I had a reaction to the opiates and was violently sick until my stomach was empty, so it was taken out of my hands, just by luck).

Since then I have had time to think about what I did (I was a teenager at the time), and no longer see myself as a single unit; more of part of a family and part of a community, and since anything I do affects the rest of the family that would actually stop me (obviously if anything worse than being diagnosed with cancer and losing a partner on the same day ever happens to me I'll reconsider).

Maybe it's having been on the other end of a suicide that's made me change my mind on this- I don't know.

Originally posted by medusa666
Further to redrobbo's post- maybe that's the line that gets crossed that makes the difference between people who contemplate suicide and those who actually attempt it- caring enough about others to place their needs and pain on the priorities list.

On the one occasion that I was actually serious enough about suicide to take the pills I didn't consider my family or others, just myself and how I felt, and how I couldn't go on as I was (I had a reaction to the opiates and was violently sick until my stomach was empty, so it was taken out of my hands, just by luck).

Since then I have had time to think about what I did (I was a teenager at the time), and no longer see myself as a single unit; more of part of a family and part of a community, and since anything I do affects the rest of the family that would actually stop me (obviously if anything worse than being diagnosed with cancer and losing a partner on the same day ever happens to me I'll reconsider).

Maybe it's having been on the other end of a suicide that's made me change my mind on this- I don't know.

Sorry to hear of your own 'close shave' with suicide but if you had of gone down that 'instant action' option of suicide ie., thrown yourself under a train..you would have affected the immediate lives of others as well as your family and friends...

How would you feel about that???

Clinical depression, leading to comitting suicide, indicates an irrational state of mind. Consideration for the feelings of family members is therefore seldom uppermost in their thoughts, much less the inconvenience that may be caused to the general public...

Originally posted by medusa666
Further to redrobbo's post- maybe that's the line that gets crossed that makes the difference between people who contemplate suicide and those who actually attempt it- caring enough about others to place their needs and pain on the priorities list.


Spot on medusa666. When someone crosses the line where they can no longer recognise the pain they will inflict on the people they leave behind (or, for that matter, anyone like a train or tube driver who will become the unwitting agent of their death) then they are seriously suicidal and in need of urgent psychiatric help, including in-patient hospital care and treatment.

Sadly, there are still those who resort to suicide spontaneously, i.e., at the moment of mental turmoil, emotional distress or grief, who can usually find a means to end their life. Their usual thinking processes can also be affected by alcohol (or drugs), which contributes to a sudden irrational act to kill themselves.

The fact that you can no longer buy single large quantities of paracetamol at the chemist, has contributed to a decrease in suicide by overdose in recent years. This is because when spontaneous suicides turn to the medicine cabinet on the spur of the moment during a period of acute mental turmoil, there simply isn't enough paracetamol to be swallowed that will cause serious harm or death. They may still take an overdose, but will usually recover.

Originally posted by Shiesh
Sorry to hear of your own 'close shave' with suicide but if you had of gone down that 'instant action' option of suicide ie., thrown yourself under a train..you would have affected the immediate lives of others as well as your family and friends...

How would you feel about that???

I don't think that I could ever have done the throwing myself under a train thing for all of the reasons that I've said- but I do feel truly guilty that I nearly did this to my family anyway- and that's 20 years on.

Originally posted by Shiesh
Sorry to hear of your own 'close shave' with suicide but if you had of gone down that 'instant action' option of suicide ie., thrown yourself under a train..you would have affected the immediate lives of others as well as your family and friends...

How would you feel about that???

Shiesh - think about what you posted. The 'instant action' you refer to would probably have been 100% successful. Very few survive such suicide methods to be able to think about how their actions would have affected anyone else.

Originally posted by redrobbo
Shiesh - think about what you posted. The 'instant action' you refer to would probably have been 100% successful. Very few survive such suicide methods to be able to think about how their actions would have affected anyone else.

Exactly....and what I am saying is obviously some don't have time to think, however some do and maybe they should think more (before)!!!!

Suicide IMO is a selfish act and one which destroys many lives not only of the loved ones associated with the victim but those who may have been driving the train, bus or are associated with the removal of the body/bodyparts afterwards!!

If you speculate that these people are all mentally ill and open to sympathy you really are leaving a huge gate open for those suicide bombers who take 'innocents' with them.....you could say they too are victims for believing in a better place!!

All hogwash IMO!!

The majority of bullied teenagers etc committing suicide do so in a ''cry for help' manner.....they could have been saved if someone came across them early enough!!

I think people commit suicide for many reasons.... none of them rational in their lifetime at the very time. Their nearest may not always pick up on their state of mind as they may seem "normal".

To throw yourself under a train or off a bridge suggests a deliberate atempt to end it all at once, whereas in most suicide attempts..... the person involved will contact someone to let them know they have done something to try to end their life in the hope of bringing any problems they experience to light and stop the process of "suicide" from going ahead.

We live in a world where personal expectation over rides the emotional and sometimes financial commitments we are able to keep up with..... and some times we can just be too ill to tell the difference apart. Society puts an enormous strain on who we should or should'nt be.... so it is not surprising when some people choose another way. Maybe they just needed another chance and some justice in their lives.

whether you believe it's selfish or not, someone comitting suicide isn't thinking about the effect on others. It can't be said any more simply. They aren't doing it to get famous or cause the most disruption, they are ill and don't think about the effect it has on anyone else.

Originally posted by Shiesh
Exactly....and what I am saying is obviously some don't have time to think, however some do and maybe they should think more (before)!!!!

Suicide IMO is a selfish act and one which destroys many lives not only of the loved ones associated with the victim but those who may have been driving the train, bus or are associated with the removal of the body/bodyparts afterwards!!

If you speculate that these people are all mentally ill and open to sympathy you really are leaving a huge gate open for those suicide bombers who take 'innocents' with them.....you could say they too are victims for believing in a better place!!

All hogwash IMO!!

The majority of bullied teenagers etc committing suicide do so in a ''cry for help' manner.....they could have been saved if someone came across them early enough!!

Originally posted by Cyclone
you seem very concerned with the effect on other people.
The effect on the dead person is a whole lot more profound.

That's what the dead person wanted - not much point in trying it, otherwise, is there?

However, the bystanders don't have any choice in the matter and can get very screwed up.

In my first year at University - just after I got there - some fellow two doors down from me took a load of pills and then left a note for me and another guy. We broke in to his room and saved his scrawny neck by getting him to the hospital for stomach pumping. Within two or three hours he was partying. I was totally blown away and stayed messed up for weeks afterwards.

He was a selfish little ******* who spent the rest of my first year at university hanging on my coat tails, with the unspoken threat of 'I'm depressed and might do something daft' always present. Life has it's ironies - he'd taken paracetamol and the resultant liver damage kept him in and out of hospital for months.

For various reasons there were ongoing effects on my life from that. His life settled down very well, thank you. I think it took me years to get that stupidity out of my system. I know that people aren't in a correct frame of mind, but some people who attempt or manage suicide ARE just selfish.

For God's sake, if you're going to do it then do it in private with thoughts for your family and the people who will have to find you.

Joe

if you're going to do it then do it in private with thoughts for your family and the people who will have to find you

If they were rational enough to think that then they wouldn't be suicidal would they.

From the outside suicide generally will appear selfish, from the other side it's not, they're beyond empathising and thinking through the results (beyond the obvious) of their actions.

I'll agree that it is basically selfish, because it is all about one person. But I won't agree that it's deliberately made more selfish by planning to have maximum impact/effect on others, I think most suicidees are not capable of conceiving that larger effect.

I think there is a clear distinction between those who actually intend to commit suicide and those who are making 'cries for help'.

Like Joe, I used to know someone who threatened to commit suicide whenever anybody upset him. On two occasions he actually attempted it and took overdoses but did not take enough to be fatal (or to have any negative effects at all, we wondered if he really had taken any) and then proceeded to tell everyone he had done it.

He told everyone he suffered from clinical depression, thus adding more weight to his threats of suicide. However his entire behaviour pattern was attention seeking and selfish, and I believe he never actually intended to commit suicide.

ALL suicides have a deep and profound effect on the survivors, whether private or public. It might seem that the person who has done it is selfish for hurting other people in the process, but if you are the one left behind with a lifetime of grief to deal with, then thinking about whether they were 'selfish' or not simply does not come into it. The only thing you think about is wishing they were still alive.

Sadly so many people commit suicide because the state of mental health services in this country is nothing short of appalling. You need counselling? You can wait 9 months. By which time you might be dead. It is simply not taken seriously enough. Depression can be as much of a threat to life as cancer but those who need counselling just don't get it. I wonder how many of those who witness suicide or who are survivors of someone who has committed suicide go on to do the same, driven to despair and left without help?

Life can be unbearably crap, and unfortunately one of the design faults of the human body is that it doesn't have an off switch. People who are absolutely determined to commit suicide are going to want a way to do it that is 100% effective, and presumably fairly quick/pain free as well.

It's always been my view that major hospitals should have some sort of 'assisted suicide' or euthanasia facility. People who are completely determined to kill themselves would be able to go along and then there would be a process whereby they were offered counselling etc., given the opportunity to make a will or write any farewell letters, and checked to see whether they were of sound mind and so on, and if after all that and a due period of reflection they were still determined to go through with it, they would be set up with a drip and a syringe full of something lethal and painless and allowed to get on with it. This would give them a dignified end rather than having to be swept up off the motorway or train line, nobody would have to find them hanging from the banister, and so on. It would be less traumatic for everyone.

I can see that the medical profession would have severe problems with this since they are meant to take every means possible to sustain life and so on. But if some countries can do it for terminally ill people, the logical extension is that you could do it for anyone else. And there'd probably be all sorts of legal problems with relatives claiming that the staff should have made more effort to stop them and so on, so it'll never happen. But speaking personally, if I was going to kill myself this is the way I'd do it rather than any of the currently available ones.

I myself felt suicidal last year around xmas although i'd often had suicidal thoughts for several months before that. I'd look on the internet for ways to kill myself quietly.

Anyway things got so bad last January I won't go into all details but I nearly lost my wonderful wife but she stuck by me. I plucked up the courage and visited the doctor. Finally I got some help and I actually found it unbelievable that someone would listen to me.

I was prescribed anti-depressants for months which made me feel better. I stopped taking them around May and I have felt fine since and can empathise with anyone feeling depressed or suicidal.

What I want to say is that the doctor did help and as a result I feel my life is much better now.

I am also going to become a dad next year:)

Originally posted by metalman
Life can be unbearably crap, and unfortunately one of the design faults of the human body is that it doesn't have an off switch. People who are absolutely determined to commit suicide are going to want a way to do it that is 100% effective, and presumably fairly quick/pain free as well.

It's always been my view that major hospitals should have some sort of 'assisted suicide' or euthanasia facility. People who are completely determined to kill themselves would be able to go along and then there would be a process whereby they were offered counselling etc., given the opportunity to make a will or write any farewell letters, and checked to see whether they were of sound mind and so on, and if after all that and a due period of reflection they were still determined to go through with it, they would be set up with a drip and a syringe full of something lethal and painless and allowed to get on with it. This would give them a dignified end rather than having to be swept up off the motorway or train line, nobody would have to find them hanging from the banister, and so on. It would be less traumatic for everyone.

I can see that the medical profession would have severe problems with this since they are meant to take every means possible to sustain life and so on. But if some countries can do it for terminally ill people, the logical extension is that you could do it for anyone else. And there'd probably be all sorts of legal problems with relatives claiming that the staff should have made more effort to stop them and so on, so it'll never happen. But speaking personally, if I was going to kill myself this is the way I'd do it rather than any of the currently available ones.

metalman, at least you've thought about it, which is more than most do, but your idea sounds a tad sick to me. As someone who has survived the suicide of someone else, the thought that the 'caring' professions could or even would assist in this way is appalling. I'm sure if you spoke to a doctor or nurse they would agree - they went into the job to help, not to kill.

Yep, it sure is traumatic, you're spot on there, but it misses the point of why suicide happens. Those who actually want to die, as opposed to make a cry for help, do choose some of the most painful and horrific ways to die (maybe as this is more 'cathartic'), so they would never do this in any case.

this is not an attempt @ trolling albeit controversial.imho people who commit suicide in general are cowards.
killing oneself is not easy - but obviously they find it easier than coping with thier current situation.
they always do it after loosing someone close,wasting all their money,getting into debt,having affairs,not being happy with their life,clinical depression etc.
i can empathise with the conditions they suffer from & agree they should get all the help they need.but i have no real sympathy for suicide victims.

Originally posted by willman
this is not an attempt @ trolling albeit controversial.imho people who commit suicide in general are cowards.
killing oneself is not easy - but obviously they find it easier than coping with thier current situation.
they always do it after loosing someone close,wasting all their money,getting into debt,having affairs,not being happy with their life,clinical depression etc.
i can empathise with the conditions they suffer from & agree they should get all the help they need.but i have no real sympathy for suicide victims.

I can totally see where you are coming from, it's what most people think, because thankfully, most people are lucky and haven't 'been there'. Long may it continue. But that doesn't help get funding for people with depression to get help, which just isn't there and isn't even in the right places. Best analogy I can offer is imagine you had cancer and you went to the doctor who told you to come back in 9 months for treatment; meanwhile your friends and colleagues are telling you that you should pull yourself together and cut it out yourself. Neither would be acceptable, but for some reason it *is* for mental ill health and distress, which in many cases can be a terminal illness.

People committing suicide has an awful effect on their friends and family. I can understand why they do it, but toi do it in a way that effects others they don't know (ie, off bridge, in fron of train) is completely disgusting.

I assume people do this to guarantee actually dying.

As for it being cowardly I don't agree. If you believe in abortion etc then surely you should have a choice whether you live or die? Maybe euthanasia could be the way forward?

although, how many people who attempt suicide due to an event (I know someone who killed themselves for messing up an exam) and how many really want to die is another matter

I think there are a lot more issues with suicide than wanting the spotlight, or being incoherent and doing something daft. I've tried to imagine what it would be like to be that unhappy and want to end my own life.

I don't think i personally would have the courage to end my own life in a painful manner eg. hanging, severing an artery, and there's the liklihood that someone you know will find you.

So then you turn to someone else doing it for you, taking responsibility for the final act of your own hands - I don't think people who take this route think of the people inside the trains or cars which they're about to jump in front of - its just a means to an end, and I think it would be much easier to think "well, i'll be dead so it doesn't matter how it affects anyone else" about a stranger, than about your own family if they found you.

It sounds rather clinical, but i think there are pros and cons to all the common methods, and people chose the one they personally can deal with the easiest. At the end of the day that person is not going to be around to feel guilt or shame for how their actions will impact others, so moral responsibility or a social conscience for those actions is not guaranteed.

Originally posted by poucinet
I myself felt suicidal last year around xmas although i'd often had suicidal thoughts for several months before that. I'd look on the internet for ways to kill myself quietly.

Anyway things got so bad last January I won't go into all details but I nearly lost my wonderful wife but she stuck by me. I plucked up the courage and visited the doctor. Finally I got some help and I actually found it unbelievable that someone would listen to me.

I was prescribed anti-depressants for months which made me feel better. I stopped taking them around May and I have felt fine since and can empathise with anyone feeling depressed or suicidal.

What I want to say is that the doctor did help and as a result I feel my life is much better now.

I am also going to become a dad next year:)

Congrats - that's such good news and I can totally empathise with you!

:)

i think there are some really wise posts on here, it supprises me how much empathy and understanding of eachother of lot of you all have.

i dont really hold a set opinion on this, i think its all down to each individual case, i heard a while ago that its apparantly more common for women to go quietly alone and for men to go by jumping infornt of something etc, not sure if thats true or not.

but i think either way, the person commiting suicide must be going through terrible pain in their life to do something like that, so im sure they wont really be able to think and consider others at a time like that.

when i hear about things like this on the news, it doesnt make me angry about the people they might have affected, it sadens me more to think of what that person must have been going through, and if only someone could have helped them...

if they want to top themselves why dont they do it in their own homes IE stick there head in the oven/tablets away from everybody else

Well, for a start sticking your head in the oven no longer kills you (since the advent of natural gas) and many people just don't have access to sufficient number of sufficiently toxic pills to do it that way.

Originally posted by robbie

As for it being cowardly I don't agree. If you believe in abortion etc then surely you should have a choice whether you live or die? Maybe euthanasia could be the way forward?



suicide & abortion or in no way related and IMHO could never be.
suicide is a final escape from ones reality, or it could be construed as running away from reality & responsibility.
is facing your demon more cowardly than running from it - i dont think so!!

yes it is. Both Eutanasia and abortion are about pro-choice

Originally posted by Shiesh


If you speculate that these people are all mentally ill and open to sympathy you really are leaving a huge gate open for those suicide bombers who take 'innocents' with them.....you could say they too are victims for believing in a better place!!

All hogwash IMO!!



So-called suicide bombers are actually murderers - who happen to take their own lives in the process of killing other people for whatever is their misguided cause. The use of the phrase 'suicide bomber' to describe such people is akin to describing thieves who steal motor-cars as 'joyriders'.

Suicidal people do not necessarily believe that they are going to a better place by the way. Often as not, they just seek release from this world and all the trials and tribulations that they suffer from.

Originally posted by Bikertec
Total CR*P i'm 100% behind Bikertec you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
WHY though?

Why do they have to jump in front of a train, tram or tube when they know the driver is going to be affected, the people on the station or witnesses are going to be affected, and certainly the people picking up bits of body are going to be affected as well- seems a little selfish to me to be quite honest.

It is all the same.

The suicide victim knows what they are going to do- why do they have to cause maximum publicity for themselves and cause the maximum of horror for everyone else?

I'd say selfishness- I know it sounds horrible, but it needs to be said.

i've got a major problem with all this......

i agree with what you're saying, but thats because we're in a stable state of mind.......i beleive that someone who is at the point of suicide has lost all rationality and reasoning and therefore IMO they have absolutely no concern about their actions......so no i don't think its because they're selfish.......its because they're mentally ill and making the wrong decisions

Any one who has drepression or has been through depression really knows how this feels, little things can drive you over the edge :(

Originally posted by Shiesh
notoreity....that's why!! (if I have spelt correctly)

Some people crave it!!

Gone with a bang...they're hell bent on killing themselves and cannot be saved but wanna go with people knowing!

That's my interpretation anyhow!

:(

disagree,............they probably see sudden blow methods to be the most pain free method of killing themselves

Originally posted by Jon
Any one who has drepression or has been through depression really knows how this feels, little things can drive you over the edge :(

i haven't had depression but i can see how this feels

I have had depression for 3 years now you have know idea how it feels and how bad it makes you feel :( Suicide i've tried it once and failed due to my cousin finding me but i never rang people before telling them. Depression is a awful thing to have and if anyone wants to talk to me in private about it i will and how it affects you.

This has been a most interesting thread and has changed my views of suicide victims. I used to think that it was a selfish act and cowardly. I have now had my eyes opened to the real distress that some people have suffered before considering taking their own lives.

There seems to be an overriding desperation to end their personal suffering. I'm not taking "cries for help" into consideration here but the true desire that someone has to end their own life. It must be the worst feeling anyone could endure and obviously will have an impact on their rational thinking.

I don't wish this on anyone but i have had depression and i still have it and anyone in private wanna chat with me i'm willing to do so..i know how low and bad it feels so please pm anytime :)

Originally posted by Jon
I have had depression for 3 years now you have know idea how it feels and how bad it makes you feel :( Suicide i've tried it once and failed due to my cousin finding me but i never rang people before telling them. Depression is a awful thing to have and if anyone wants to talk to me in private about it i will and how it affects you.

don't tell me what i have no idea about........i make that decision, not you

i think i'd get depressed if i couldn't even kill myself

Originally posted by Jon
I don't wish this on anyone but i have had depression and i still have it and anyone in private wanna chat with me i'm willing to do so..i know how low and bad it feels so please pm anytime :)

i assume you've written this twice because you want sympathy

:( if you have a problem with me take it to pm not on here i'm only here to help people like me

Originally posted by rocketpig
i assume you've written this twice because you want sympathy

Why not just ask him why he has wrote it twice instead of jumping to conclusions.

No wander so many people commit suicide :rolleyes:

Originally posted by spyro2000
Why not just ask him why he has wrote it twice instead of jumping to conclusions.

No wander so many people commit suicide :rolleyes:

you don't admit to seeking sympathy do you?

Originally posted by rocketpig
you don't admit to seeking sympathy do you?

I do yes

Originally posted by rocketpig
you don't admit to seeking sympathy do you? If you want to argue with him take it to pm.

Originally posted by Bikertec
If you want to argue with him take it to pm.

if you want to give me instructions, take it to pm

.....shall we get back to talking about suicide?

Originally posted by rocketpig
i assume you've written this twice because you want sympathy erm no i'm not i'm trying to tell people i know how they feel cause i've been through it

Some people just want to argue Jon ignore him.

If you have never had depression you can't really comment on it as depression is something i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.I have suffered and still am suffering with depression it's one of the worst things to suffer with to not know how to control your feelings or be able to explain how you feel inside it's horrible it's like living a constant nightmare day and night.I have gone through self harm aswell with depression and you really don't know where to turn and when you feel like no-one understands you and you feel completely alone in the world believe me it's not something to really comment on if you have never been through it.

Private arguments should be taken to PMs please. They are beginning to detract from the seriousness of the issue under discussion. Thanks.

Back on topic:-

Loneliness, isolation and a feeling of worthlessness are also major factors which influence people in taking their lives. Christmas time is always a difficult time for lonely people. They see so many people enjoying this period of happiness, and become ever more despondent about their individual circumstances. There is an increase in both attempted and successful suicides at this time of year.

I have worked over the Christmas holiday period for over 20 years, and can recall only one single Christmas Day when I have not had to respond to a suicide attempt. That particular Christmas Day morning was, however, spent locating the parents of a 17 year old youth who had hung himself in prison, and having to break the news to them that their son was dead.

Loneliness and isolation can lead to a feeling of utter despair, and a resultant suicide attempt. When I have assessed those who have survived a suicide attempt, they have all told me the same thing - if they ever gave any thought at all to their immediate family members before attempting suicide, it was to tell me that they thought their family would be 'better off without me'.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by redrobbo

Back on topic:-

Loneliness, isolation and a feeling of worthlessness are also major factors which influence people in taking their lives.

Loneliness and isolation can lead to a feeling of utter despair, [QUOTE]

redrob, loads of very knowledgable stuff from you in this debate, you obv work in this 'industry' as it were,
can i just point out to people about the above quote....

people who don't understand/know about/suffered from depression, may not understand the 'loneliness/isolation..etc etc' part,

probably obvious, but you can be very popular, have a missus,a good job working with lots of people, have a massive group of VERY good friends, and still feel the most incredible unbelievable loneliness....

just my 2 pence worth for the rest of the readers of this post

ooops messed up the 'quote' bit!!!

maybe i should have another drink...hehe

yes its all very interesting

that person may feel that no one absolutly no one takes attention of them, that absoultly no one in the world knows they exist. could be their fainal way of getting some acknowledgement of their existance. just a thought!

Originally posted by djash1000
[QUOTE]Originally posted by redrobbo

Back on topic:-

Loneliness, isolation and a feeling of worthlessness are also major factors which influence people in taking their lives.

Loneliness and isolation can lead to a feeling of utter despair, [QUOTE]

redrob, loads of very knowledgable stuff from you in this debate, you obv work in this 'industry' as it were,
can i just point out to people about the above quote....

people who don't understand/know about/suffered from depression, may not understand the 'loneliness/isolation..etc etc' part,

probably obvious, but you can be very popular, have a missus,a good job working with lots of people, have a massive group of VERY good friends, and still feel the most incredible unbelievable loneliness....

just my 2 pence worth for the rest of the readers of this post

very good point. Lonelyness doesn't have to have anything to do with how many friends you have or family/money etc etc. Lonelyness is inside your head.

Originally posted by robbie
very good point. Lonelyness doesn't have to have anything to do with how many friends you have or family/money etc etc. Lonelyness is inside your head.

Agree entirely. I was more lonely married than I ever was single.

What a sad thread. Sad for human beings that can't acknowledge how another human being can end their life with no other view than it being a 'notoriety stunt'. I've read threads on SF with all manner of people empathising all manner of things, where has it gone? Depression doesn't affect any two people alike, different personalities/troubles but it is an illness that should be take far more seriously.
:(

Originally posted by utah
What a sad thread. Sad for human beings that can't acknowledge how another human being can end their life with no other view than it being a 'notoriety stunt'. :(

Couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by craigmason
if they want to top themselves why dont they do it in their own homes IE stick there head in the oven/tablets away from everybody else

Thats rubbish! At the end of the day no matter where a person commits suicide, someones going to find them. And i personally believe its harder for a family member to find them. Without going into details a very close family member of mine committed suicide at home by hanging himself, his son found him... hes going to have that image in his head for the rest of his life... For people saying they want the notoriety of doing it in a shocking way, please remember that these people are depressed to the maximum, they are thinking about taking their own life, leaving the world and their famillies, i.e they are not thinking straight/clearly!