Looks like students from University of Sheffield have taken over one of the chambers at Town Hall, the police dogs were going in at lunchtime.

Really? Students are soft as owt' (no offense). Police dogs, they could use Police rabbits to clear that bunch up.

Can't be talking less sense than the usual tripe that those muppets in the Town Hall come out with.

it's about time the students got off their collective arses and found a proper job.They have nothing better to do than protest at this,that and t'other.

Tuition fees should be compulsary for anyone who doesn't wish to work and contribute to the country

Originally posted by tittyheed
Tuition fees should be compulsary for anyone who doesn't wish to work and contribute to the country

I'd hardly say students dont want to contribute to this country. They just want to learn stuff so they can contribute in a more interesting way than they could without qualifications.

I wouldn't say students don't want to work and contribute to society. I'd say they want to educate themselves in order to get a good job, on a high salary which will mean they will contribute quite a lot to society in the long term.

Alternatively they might just be doing a degree for the pure pursuit of knowledge, which is a laudable goal and enriches the country beyond measurement.

hope the dogs chew bits out of the crusty tax dodgers

Originally posted by tittyheed
Tuition fees should be compulsary for anyone who doesn't wish to work and contribute to the country
Why not apply that to anyone who can't be arsed to get a job at all and prefers to sponge off the benefits system... Some have no choice I'll admit but some just don't bother even trying...

At least students have goals with a view to getting a career or furthering understanding of social, technical, etc.. issues...

.. and speaking as an ex student who's done plenty more for this country than its done for me thankyou very much... I'd really like to see people take a long hard look at what Students are like in this day and age and not keep harping back to those of the 1970's and flower power...

*nerve touched maybe* :P

Alternatively they might be just loving student life.

Boozing, sex and drugs.

I know plenty of people who just love the fact they don't have to work.

Personally speaking if I had to pay tuition fees then I wouldn't have a cat in hells chance of educating myself.

I have worked and paid taxes since I was 16. At the age of nearly 24 I am giving up my career to get a degree in something that I have always wanted to do.

It is not going to be easy for me. I don't imagine I will have any money to go out drinking and clubbing.

In fact I'll be lucky to just pay my rent and other household bills and hopefully have enough money to clothe and feed myself. I don't think anyone would choose this just so they didn't have to work!!

Originally posted by steelblade
In fact I'll be lucky to just pay my rent and other household bills and hopefully have enough money to clothe and feed myself. I don't think anyone would choose this just so they didn't have to work!!

I think the majority of comments relating to students sponging off tax payers are based on ignorance and/or envy.

They're usually made by the same people who imagine that people from foreign lands sell all their possessions to help pay people smugglers tens of thousands of pounds in order to come here and claim benefits.:loopy:

Originally posted by wibbles
hope the dogs chew bits out of the crusty tax dodgers

Most students will pay more in taxes throughout their lives than non students.

If I wanted to be a tax dodger I'd find a much cleverer way to defraud the system than being a student.

Originally posted by tittyheed
Tuition fees should be compulsary [sic] for anyone who doesn't wish to work and contribute to the country

Given that half of the students in Sheffield are studying nursing, medicine or dentistry, and are spending lots of time working on the wards, that is a pretty disingenuous thing to say.

Maybe if you had an education you wouldn't say such stupid reactionary things.

Alternatively they might be just loving student life.

Boozing, sex and drugs.

I know plenty of people who just love the fact they don't have to work..

For someone who complains that working from the age of 16 hasn't provided any job satisfaction, why should you complain about others that are trying to better their lives and have avoid the 9-5 drudgery of which you tire?

Anyway, back to the subject of the thread, rather than cyber-student-bashing, does anybody know what's happened in the Town Hall today?

(Personally, I'm gladdened to see anybody taking direct action rrather than just moaning about it).

Originally posted by Jim
For someone who complains that working from the age of 16 hasn't provided any job satisfaction, why should you complain about others that are trying to better their lives and have avoid the 9-5 drudgery of which you tire?


I don't mind the students who have genuine goals that are working towards a career, I'm stating the fact that I KNOW some people who brag about the fact they don't have to work.. and haven't even considered what career they want to be in.

Originally posted by GazB
I'm stating the fact that I KNOW some people who brag about the fact they don't have to work.. and haven't even considered what career they want to be in.
Read that again... now explain to me whether you think all glasses are empty just because you've seen some glasses that have nothing in them.

C'mon... sweeping generalisations :rolleyes: :P

Ok, now read my post again. I've stated that I know people who are only students so they don't have to work- Fact.

Basically setting the record straight after most people think all students are "only doing it to benefit themselves and the country along the line". Bah, do me a favour.

Some are genuine, some are not. End of discussion.

Originally posted by GazB
Ok, now read my post again. I've stated that I know people who are only students so they don't have to work- Fact.
Becoming a student is a pretty crap way of avoiding work. Financially they would be much better off on the dole.

I don't mind the students who have genuine goals that are working towards a career, I'm stating the fact that I KNOW some people who brag about the fact they don't have to work.. and haven't even considered what career they want to be in.
In a way, it would be a shame if students knew exactly what they wanted to do at 18 when they enter university. University is just as much about creating a well-rounded individual with the ability of independent thought as it is about academic education.

But I see where you're coming from. Personally I think there are too many courses doing daft things and with students that aren't suited to academia. I think universities should admit fewer students. Hey perhaps with fewer students we could get rid of fees! For the less academically-able, more career oriented courses should be provided. Perhaps we should send the academic people to Sheffield Uni, and those needing training for a career to Hallam. Then rename Hallam to "Sheffield Polytechnic"...

But anyway.... why are students occupying the Town Hall? Protesting about fees I assume? Are they still there?

Originally posted by GazB
Some are genuine, some are not.
Fair enough...

Originally posted by garrence
Given that half of the students in Sheffield are studying nursing, medicine or dentistry, and are spending lots of time working on the wards, that is a pretty disingenuous thing to say.


And speaking as one of those students, I'd like to say that I'm not one of those few, and they are the minority, who have given students everywhere a bad name.

The fact that I want to better myself by learning a highly skilled and needed job, doesn't mean that I'm a lazy layabout. I work flippin' hard on my course, as do my peers, and for what? So that I can get a job with horrendous shifts, for rubbish money, in an over-run and undervalued organisation.

So it's a good job I love it isn't it :rolleyes: :P

I have to goto university as ive practically no job prospects without going :lol: If only it was 5 years ago i'd have walked into an easy job from leaving school in the field I want to go into...

Originally posted by RPG
I have to goto university as ive practically no job prospects without going :lol: If only it was 5 years ago i'd have walked into an easy job from leaving school in the field I want to go into...

What, a shepherd?:D

Boom boom tisshh

No, Computing :thumbsup:

What has the town Hall and the Council got to do with Top Up Fees?

Sounds like a stunt of the cupid variety. :D

Students ... hehe .... I remember when ;)

Ah well... all was not lost (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7611):thumbsup:

some of you lot want to take a look up broomhill any night of the week and you will see student life as one long **** up

Originally posted by tittyheed
some of you lot want to take a look up broomhill any night of the week and you will see student life as one long **** up

Yeah, but there are two types of student:

the ones who hate the course, dont drink often and do well and the ones who drink alot, love the course and fail badly...

To be honest, it sounds like you missed out on all this fun for some reason and are now bitter and twisted to all the "fun" which happens and you arent involved with :lol: ;)

The reason the students were at Town Hall was because they were ON STRIKE!!!
They have come out in sympathy for the lecturers whose union told them to strike over pay. They have been on strike Tues and Wed.
Interesting comments about students, but have you considered this; the university is one of the single largest employers in Sheffield. We might love to hate them, but they provide me with a job.

Yea but no but ..... wha's that got to do with the Council, and what right have the students got to invade the Town Hall?

Originally posted by smellie1
The reason the students were at Town Hall was because they were ON STRIKE!!!
They have come out in sympathy for the lecturers whose union told them to strike over pay. They have been on strike Tues and Wed.
Interesting comments about students, but have you considered this; the university is one of the single largest employers in Sheffield. We might love to hate them, but they provide me with a job.

No - I was under the impression that the Students were protesting at top up fees. The student protest was organised to coincide with the AUT strike happening yesterday. The AUT were striking over the new proposed academic pay structure.

Originally posted by Baldyshef
Most students will pay more in taxes throughout their lives than non students.
Hows does that work out???

Originally posted by wibbles
Hows does that work out???
Because they will earn more money, hence pay more income tax.

not neccesarily earn more money though...Mcdonalds Staff and Petrol station attendants don't earn that much
A student that get s a degree isn't guaranteed to get a highly paid job..unlke me who didn't get a degree and has a highly paid job hence I pay more taxes

no, not necessarily. But in all likelihood.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
no, not necessarily. But in all likelihood.

For instance, I now pay more in tax than I used to earn as a postman before taking my degree.

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=746614

Here is the relevant story from the Star.

None of the students would have turned violent so if I was the security guard at City Hall, would have just said "You'll have to go through me"..

Gaz - they might have made an exception in your case.

Originally posted by garrence
Becoming a student is a pretty crap way of avoiding work. Financially they would be much better off on the dole.

It's got nothing to do with finance - I know plenty of students who only went so they could avoid work for another 3/4 years - I live with 2 of them. I've got no sympathy for the job dodging whinging gits.

Originally posted by Jim
Gaz - they might have made an exception in your case.

I'm not saying I'm tough enough to take on 100 students (maybe 50 :P) I'm saying I don't think they would have risked beating someone up because of the bad publicity they'd receive afterwards- Not good for their cause.

Originally posted by GazB
I'm not saying I'm tough enough to take on 100 students (maybe 50 :P) I'm saying I don't think they would have risked beating someone up because of the bad publicity they'd receive afterwards- Not good for their cause.
Good grief :rolleyes:

1000 people pour into the town hall and you plan on doing a "moses" (TM) to part the masses and get them to see the error of their ways... Anyone else hear the riot police running to recruit...

C'mon... wake up and smell the testosterone :thumbsup: :D LOL

Originally posted by Martin_s
Good grief :rolleyes:

1000 people pour into the town hall and you plan on doing a "moses" (TM) to part the masses and get them to see the error of their ways... Anyone else hear the riot police running to recruit...

C'mon... wake up and smell the testosterone :thumbsup: :D LOL

It seems you're making quite a habit out of not reading/not understanding my posts correctly.

Basically, if the students had no choice but to be violent (ie- Beat up a security guard who is in their way) you'll find they wouldn't want to risk it. I'm not saying I could take them on- because I obviously couldn't, I'm saying they wouldn't want to make a peaceful protest into a pointless riot.

Originally posted by GazB
It seems you're making quite a habit out of not reading/not understanding my posts correctly.

Basically, if the students had no choice but to be violent (ie- Beat up a security guard who is in their way) you'll find they wouldn't want to risk it. I'm not saying I could take them on- because I obviously couldn't, I'm saying they wouldn't want to make a peaceful protest into a pointless riot.

But why would the students have needed to "beat up" the security guard? Surely their sheer numbers meant they could have just pushed past him - which is probably what happened.

Originally posted by Dug
But why would the students have needed to "beat up" the security guard? Surely their sheer numbers meant they could have just pushed past him - which is probably what happened.

What if it was an old man? Pushing past him could have been life threatening to the poor old bloke :P

Originally posted by GazB
I'm not saying I could take them on
Ok, try re-reading your own initial post and explain how the "you'll have to go through me" approach could have been read as anything other than confrontation...

I'm not misunderstanding your post... but I may have been misunderstanding your intended point...

Originally posted by Martin_s
Ok, try re-reading your own initial post and explain how the "you'll have to go through me" approach could have been read as anything other than confrontation...

I'm not misunderstanding your post... but I may have been misunderstanding your intended point...

:roll:

"you'll have to go through me" is an offer of confrontation that the students would not want to take up.. Whether it was me or a 50 year old man saying it. I'm not going to keep explaining. I understand what I mean, everyone else understands what I mean (I think) but you obviously don't.

Originally posted by GazB
What if it was an old man? Pushing past him could have been life threatening to the poor old bloke :P

Yeah ok, the council has a habit of employing old men with life threatening conditions as security guards?

Originally posted by Dug
Yeah ok, the council has a habit of employing old men with life threatening conditions as security guards?

You'd be suprised ;)

Originally posted by GazB
:roll:

"you'll have to go through me" is an offer of confrontation that the students would not want to take up.. Whether it was me or a 50 year old man saying it. I'm not going to keep explaining. I understand what I mean, everyone else understands what I mean (I think) but you obviously don't.

I understand you, to be honest Martin probably does as well....... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by tittyheed
some of you lot want to take a look up broomhill any night of the week and you will see student life as one long **** up

Erm, is it against the law for students to have a drink or something. I drink from time to time, still work hard and am still getting through my degree. Most students I know are doing the same.

The sympathy i had for Students (i'm an ex-one) soon started to wane after a few weeks of them walking up Ecco Road at 3AM shouting and singing pi$$ed up on a 'school night' waking me up!!

I don't remember being abled to get ar$eholed most weeknights when i was studying. Hell, i can't afford to do it now!!:o

as far as i can tell, we were all off uni due to two seperate protests.. our lecturers were striking over pay, and the students were planning a protest over tuition fees anyway. Instead of disrupting lectures twice, they held the protests at the same time to avoid too much time off.

as for calling students tax dodging alchoholics, i think all those statements generalise too much. Just because some students go out and drink a lot and probably spend more time socialising than studying, doesn't mean we all do. I know plenty of people that work hard and enjoy their degree and study for a number of reasons - better job prospects, the joy of gaining knowledge, better pay etc.. but loads of students are worthwhile, so don't generalise like that, it'd be as bad as saying all people that say those things say them because they are jealous.

also, loads of students struggle with fees and living on only £3,000 a year that they have to get part time jobs anyway, so they pay tax anyway!

I was a student once, a long time ago

Just mentioning that

I am with Tony on this

I like protests, I approve of protests, I think more people should protest more often BUT..........fancy occupying the town hall because they were unhappy with tuition fees. Local Government does not have anything to do with Higher Education policy.

They might just as well have occupied WHSmiths for all the relevance

If I had been in the Town Hall, trying to go about my business. maybe if I worked there for instance, and had been unable to do anything for over an hour while a bunch of people with an appalling low level of political awareness took up space and made a noise and got in the way, I would have been LIVID

well, there have been lots of protests in london which sheffield students have gone to, but i suppose the town hall is more of a seat of power than wh smith dont you think. it was probably more for publicity to help the protest than actual relevance!
also, think about the people that want to study and are unable to do that or 'get on with their work' because they can't afford the fees.. you don't have to pay to get on with your work, why should we?

Harriet

You miss my point

Which I think makes my point for me

Thanks

ok, whats your point?

I got Belles point Harriet. :P

The issue still remains that the Town Hall and Sheffield City Council have bugger all to do with top up fees. It's hardly a good way to make an incisive political point.

Oh yes, by the way... I paid for my higher education. Worth every penny. Stop moaning.

Originally posted by HarrietStar
as for calling students tax dodging alchoholics, i think all those statements generalise too much. Just because some students go out and drink a lot and probably spend more time socialising than studying, doesn't mean we all do. I know plenty of people that work hard and enjoy their degree and study for a number of reasons - better job prospects, the joy of gaining knowledge, better pay etc.. but loads of students are worthwhile, so don't generalise like that, it'd be as bad as saying all people that say those things say them because they are jealous.

Saying students go to uni to get a degree so they can get a higher paid job than us lesser people is also generalising too much as I know plenty who are there to avoid joining real life - I really don't see why the hell my money should go towards helping these people dodge jobs. If degrees are worth to them what they keep saying they are they would be happy to fork out a bit of money for them as Tony says - it's about time they realised that nothing in this world is free.

yeh but in the long run you won't be paying for us to get degrees, because we will effectively pay it back into the national state pool through taxes. also, a lot of your money goes into paying for the nhs and educating doctors so they can treat you. without some subsidies for higher education, a lot of the services you expect like health care won't be provided. i just think that the tuition fees will bring us closer to a non-welfare state like america and eventually it'll be that we have to have health insurance just to get emergency health care, i dont think thats right, but i guess that depends how you feel about welfare states and stuff..

i guess my higher education has done nothing towards getting the point of belle's post, ah well!

i do think its wrong to expect people to pay loads in taxes to educate students who are more interested in drinking and getting time off, but like i said, not all students are like that, and you can hardly issue a test to see which students are worth paying for! I think a graduate tax rather than up front fees would be so much better because that way it is the graduate that pays, not their parents, or members of the general public. But i think saying that the general public bears the cost is wrong, because ultimatly, educating people is beneficial to the country in general, and i think having doctors and teachers etc. is a necessity.

Originally posted by HarrietStar
because ultimatly, educating people is beneficial to the country in general, and i think having doctors and teachers etc. is a necessity.

So what about Media Studies and Sports Science??

Originally posted by HarrietStar
i do think its wrong to expect people to pay loads in taxes to educate students who are more interested in drinking and getting time off, but like i said, not all students are like that, and you can hardly issue a test to see which students are worth paying for! I think a graduate tax rather than up front fees would be so much better because that way it is the graduate that pays, not their parents, or members of the general public. But i think saying that the general public bears the cost is wrong, because ultimatly, educating people is beneficial to the country in general, and i think having doctors and teachers etc. is a necessity.

I'm quite happy to pay for doctors, teachers etc. but not the lazy sods who have no intention of putting their degree (if they even get one) to use. The fees aren't going to be paid back until the graduate can afford them anyway so what's the problem. There are that many people going to university now that the money needed to educate them can't be covered so fees need to be implemented, this seems about the fairest way. If I had gone to uni (I got in but eventually decided against it as I couldn't see how I would have benefitted and very glad I didn't now) I would have happily paid my own fees even though I would have had to work hard to afford them.

If you didn't have sport science would we have won the world cup last year???(rugby)

well, i thought the fees were upfront, they are now anyway.
personally, i think we'd be better off with less people going to uni, and therefore automatically there would be less people wasting it. Also, there would then be more people available to do vocational training like electricians and plumbers which we also need.
i suppose sports science supplies physios and rehabilitation for injuries and media studies, well, i think newspapers, tv and radio are pretty important too!

I think people are missing the point. I am studying a full time degree, and i still have to work!! I haven't taken out a single loan as I am living at home, but if I had moved away, I would be thousands in debt!! And you can't say students are tax dodgers as they are gonna pay £££ back in the interest of the loans. Also many have to get a part time job, as £3000 a year is not enough to live on! Don't get me started on the fact I have to pay over a grand a year in fees as my dad has a company car!!

well, i agree with you in principle, but i have to pick up on a few points..

"the interest of the loans" - i thought the loans had a very low interest rate?

"as my dad has a company car!!" - if you pay fees, as i do, it will be because of your parents' income, not because of the car.. although to me, a job with a car indicates a well paid job, but it will be the well paid bit that means you pay fees, not the car.

Originally posted by HarrietStar
well, i agree with you in principle, but i have to pick up on a few points..

"the interest of the loans" - i thought the loans had a very low interest rate?

"as my dad has a company car!!" - if you pay fees, as i do, it will be because of your parents' income, not because of the car.. although to me, a job with a car indicates a well paid job, but it will be the well paid bit that means you pay fees, not the car.


Nope my dad earns below the level where I would pay nothing, but they add the car on as a 'tax perk', which brings it to the point where i have to pay full fees!

Also I find it interesting that on the forms you fill in, it only asks your parents income, not the student concerned. I dont know why that is.

The interest is fairly low, lower than you get on the high street, although my friends that have loans, have had a few hundred in interest added already!!! .... and this is even before they have graduated!!!! Even if it is low interest, on over 12k its going to be a lot!!

To be honest with you, if I had to pay out any more, I couldnt have afforded to go to University. Then this just leaves futher education open to the rich!

Originally posted by qazitory
I think people are missing the point. I am studying a full time degree, and i still have to work!! I haven't taken out a single loan as I am living at home, but if I had moved away, I would be thousands in debt!! And you can't say students are tax dodgers as they are gonna pay £££ back in the interest of the loans. Also many have to get a part time job, as £3000 a year is not enough to live on! Don't get me started on the fact I have to pay over a grand a year in fees as my dad has a company car!!

Yes but define full time - full time to a student is not full time to most other people.

The companies that intend on employing the graduates should be made to pay towards the cost of educating them being that they are the ones benfitting from them most.

Another question, why do people who go to university tend to be lacking in common sense????

Originally posted by fuzzy
If you didn't have sport science would we have won the world cup last year???(rugby)
Originally posted by HarrietStar
well, i thought the fees were upfront, they are now anyway.
personally, i think we'd be better off with less people going to uni, and therefore automatically there would be less people wasting it. Also, there would then be more people available to do vocational training like electricians and plumbers which we also need.
i suppose sports science supplies physios and rehabilitation for injuries and media studies, well, i think newspapers, tv and radio are pretty important too!
I seem to think that Rugby, TV, newspapers and radio all pre-date Sports Science and Media Studies.
Perhaps you can construct an argument that we now have better sports and media as a result of Sports Science and Media Studies? :P

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Yes but define full time - full time to a student is not full time to most other people.
ISTR that it was 21 hours a week face to face teaching time when I was a student.

When I finished my studies part time while working, the hours were 15 hours a week face to face teaching. That far exceeds (many) modern full time courses before you even include another 10-20 hours private study.

i don't know why people assume that unless you are being taught, you are not studying? I have 9 hours of teaching time a week, but i spend the rest of the time studying anyway, and sometimes beyond 5pm, therefore having a longer day than most 9-5ers.. Although take away the time spent on this forum, haha!

i guess if the car is a tax perk, then it kinda does count towards income, cos your parents will be paying less tax..

As for most students lacking common sense, cheers for yet another generalisation in this post.

p.s. sorry if i have offended anyone with my previous posts

harriet xx

Do you find that you get value out of only 9 hours teaching time?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Alternatively they might just be doing a degree for the pure pursuit of knowledge, which is a laudable goal and enriches the country beyond measurement.

Right On Phan!:)

Originally posted by HarrietStar
As for most students lacking common sense, cheers for yet another generalisation in this post.

Being that none of us know every student in the country we have to generalise I'm afraid...

It wasn't meant as a dig more of an observation - I know a lot of students and ex students and although they are generally good at academic work their common sense is rather lacking.

Originally posted by garrence
Given that half of the students in Sheffield are studying nursing, medicine or dentistry, and are spending lots of time working on the wards, that is a pretty disingenuous thing to say.

Maybe if you had an education you wouldn't say such stupid reactionary things.

Ya Damn Straight.

The way I see it is that everyone has the opportunity to go to uni and either further their education, or spend all the benefits on alcohol/drugs and generally p*** about for 3 years at the tax payer's expense. Those who complain about it are jealous that they didn't take up the opportunity.

Originally posted by Sidla
The way I see it is that everyone has the opportunity to go to uni and either further their education, or spend all the benefits on alcohol/drugs and generally p*** about for 3 years at the tax payer's expense. Those who complain about it are jealous that they didn't take up the opportunity.

Or they don't see why they should pay for the students who 'generally p*** about for 3 years at the tax payer's expense.'

Why not? They had the opportunity to do it, it's not our fault they didn't take it.

Originally posted by Sidla
Why not? They had the opportunity to do it, it's not our fault they didn't take it.

Nice attitude to abusing other peoples money :)

If everyone has the opportunity then the money's not really being abused is it?

Originally posted by Sidla
If everyone has the opportunity then the money's not really being abused is it?

Not everyone can get in to university, not everyone wants to go to university and yes it is being abused.

not everyone can get into uni, but not everyone who does is abusing it either :)


I think i do get credit from 9 hours teaching time, because our effort hours for each module are 120 a semester, and we do an average of 4 modules a semester, so the amount of actual work is a lot more than just the teaching time. I think uni is more about independant working than school, so its better that you are expected to work in your own time and not just force fed the information needed to pass your exams.

Originally posted by Sidla
The way I see it is that everyone has the opportunity to go to uni and either further their education, or spend all the benefits on alcohol/drugs and generally p*** about for 3 years at the tax payer's expense. Those who complain about it are jealous that they didn't take up the opportunity.

Not wishing to open old wounds, but hasn't a student (or two) been on here (on a different thread) complaining about what an easy, overpaid, underworked life teachers have.

And couldn't a teacher's response to them be.......

"Those who complain about it are jealous that they didn't take up the opportunity".

your quote

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Not everyone can get in to university, not everyone wants to go to university and yes it is being abused.
Well then don't blame me or other students if you can't get in/don't want to go and therefore can't abuse the system.

Originally posted by markham
Not wishing to open old wounds, but hasn't a student (or two) been on here (on a different thread) complaining about what an easy, overpaid, underworked life teachers have.

And couldn't a teacher's response to them be.......

"Those who complain about it are jealous that they didn't take up the opportunity".
Precisely. I agree entirely.

Originally posted by Sidla
Well then don't blame me or other students if you can't get in/don't want to go and therefore can't abuse the system.

I did get in to univeristy, I chose not to go as I felt it wouldn't have benefitted me - it turned out to be a very good decision.

I'll remember that comment next time I see you complaining about the NHS, asylum seekers etc. :)

I think that is the arguement with top up fees. Futher education should be open to anyone, rich or poor, black and white, young or old. If anyone doesn't want to go, that's their choice. But it's open to anyone.

I am doing 2 Independent Units, in which I recieve no teaching hours at all, so I don't think I am abusing anything! As I am paying over a grand a year to be in a afternoon a week for my other unit!! BTW you're meant to spend 10 hours a week on every unit you take. I'm taking three = 30 hours. I'm not sure how many students spent that much time on there work thou?

Originally posted by markham
Not wishing to open old wounds, but hasn't a student (or two) been on here (on a different thread) complaining about what an easy, overpaid, underworked life teachers have.

And couldn't a teacher's response to them be.......

"Those who complain about it are jealous that they didn't take up the opportunity".

your quote

There are a few lecturers, where I don't think they can justify a full time job!

Originally posted by fnkysknky
I did get in to univeristy, I chose not to go as I felt it wouldn't have benefitted me - it turned out to be a very good decision.

I'll remember that comment next time I see you complaining about the NHS, asylum seekers etc. :)
Please do. Have you ever seen me complain about asylum seekers/NHS?

Originally posted by HarrietStar
well, there have been lots of protests in london which sheffield students have gone to, but i suppose the town hall is more of a seat of power than wh smith dont you think.

Yes but on that basis they could have gone to the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive building or Sheffield Fire Station.

They too are both more of a seat of power than WHSmith and neither of them are responsible for Higher Education either.

The point I was making was that many of the students who were carrying out the protest clearly didnt know what it was they were protesting about or who was responsible for the policy. And that by disrupting innocent folk in the Town Hall who were going about their business, be it as a worker or as someone coming in to register their taxi or whatever, they were probably making people mad.

I see too that in another post you say you would prefer a graduate tax to top-up fees paid up front and I understand that you are a student now.

I hope you didnt go on the demo then, or you might have been caught shouting the wrong words

"What do we want?"
"No charges until after we graduate"
"when do we want it"
"now" etc

Then polite tap on shoulder "Excuse me student, the new policy completely cuts out any paying at all until after you graduate and then not until you earn at least £15,000 a year where you start paying back at about £5 a week from memory."

Isnt that what you want yourself? so you would agree with the new policy, not campaign against it.

I was a student in 1985 - 1988 and I got £400 a term subsistence. I left the Poly with a debt of around £3000 which was a huge sum then and I worked full-time in various jobs every summer holiday without exception and at least three nights a week throughout my studying. I dont see how it is any worse now than it has been before, students always get into debt, that is how it is. The beauty comes when you earn considerably more later than you would have done and are able over time to clear that debt off - and start saving or spending

... they were probably making people mad.

and wot do u tink da point of a protest is

When I did my degree I received a full grant, all my fees were paid for and I had no debt when I left uni. It made the student experience easy and attractive. It was a form of natural progression.

The thought of leaving university now with huge amounts of debt which is only going to get worse, chills me to the bone.

The Government want the country to be world leaders but are making it difficult for young people to obtain the skills needed to achieve this. Lower level skills campaigns are one thing and it's good to raise general standards nationwide, yet we need high level skills too and young people need to be encouraged to go for a university education.

Leaving with a £20K debt isn't much fun. How on earth can the young person get onto the property ladder at an early age? The average salary in Sheffield is around £20,500. Graduates usually start at a far lower rate than that, taking them years to pay this loan off.

I was given the opportunity to have a fully paid for education and it has made me value higher level education and I want to encourage others but wouldn't encourage anyone to get into debt when there are other career pathways.

The students have my full support. I imagine the protests will continue.....good luck.

Oh and while I remember, on the subject of students drinking their money away.....the Sheffield Hallam Rugby team frequent the Classic Rock Bar often on a Wednesday night in some form of fancy dress. They have been collecting for charity and each time they've bought a beer have put some money into a charity box. The students are the ones in need of the money but collect for others! Good on them!

The students that were protesting outside the university last weds, were opposed to the top up fees, i cant say about the ones at the town hall.

Originally posted by iamanant
and wot do u tink da point of a protest is

I always thought it was to get support, to get people to agree with you, to get people on your side

Silly old me huh

i didn't go on the protest because i had work to do :) i consider that more important than hassling people at the town hall. I guess it wasn't the best target, but it is still better than wh smith, lol. I don't like the fact that it turned from what was supposed to be a peaceful protest into a rabble, and didn't really achieve anything. i have nothing against peaceful protest, and hopefully there will be more of these with a higher chance of success.

I think its good that the new plans don't consist of up front fees, what i meant was that i'd much prefer no fees at all, and a higher level of tax after graduation. I think if we spent less on our defence budget and paying extreme amounts of money for schemes such as the new wembley stadium, the country could afford to lose fees in return for a higher level of tax.

i do think it's a little unfair that students 10 years ago got full grants and no fees, and now people of my generation have to pay for their education, i just think it goes against the idea of a welfare state and the idea of freedom of knowledge. My dad said to me the other day that his generation comes across very selfish, the politicians now are making decisions that affect my generation, and yet we have little say in our future, especially considering that you can't vote until you are 18, yet you are considered responsible enough to smoke and drive before then.

on that subject, how come we can't vote until we are 18 on issues such as public funding and transport, yet when it comes to extracting money from us, we are expected to pay a full adult bus fare in most cities when we are 16?

do you pay full adult tax if your working full time when your 16?? As someone once said to me, you can have sex when you're 16, but you can't watch it til you're 18 :)

i don't know because i've only ever worked part time alongside my studies since i was 14, lol