Remember the movie Deep Impact? Morgan Freeman played a black American President (who by the way I think would make a good president). I was wondering if we'd ever see the day (in our lifetimes) where we would see a black American President a black Prime Minister for the UK?

We've already been down the road of having a female Prime Minister (lets not get into that debate though), so it durely must be a matter of time before we see someone not white in office.

Do you think it would be in our lifetimes or do you think that the UK & the US just dont have the racial stability yet to experience something that would be initially controversial to a lot of people?

Thoughts?

I'd like to think that we would be able to see it.

I would say it is much more likely to happen in the UK than in America though, just my thought.

BTW do you mean just black or any non-white? So that could cover, Asian etc ?

Originally posted by DaBouncer

Do you think it would be in our lifetimes

My lifetime, perhaps, probably not yours :hihi:

As has been seen from the selection of Miss England, who is an Uzbekistani, for this year's Miss World people are selected on merit irrespective of ethnicity in this country. (I don't agree with the competition just using it as an example).

To become prime minister you have to be an MP to start with and we've some, but not many, in parliament at the moment. From there, you have to be selected by the constituency members to be party leader. The country as a whole doesn't chose the PM they vote for their MP and the party with the most MPs has their leader become PM.

We are not in the same situation as the USA where the President is elected directly. So, in answer to the question, I can see it happening but not in the next election.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

Colin Powell would have been President of the US by now, but he decided against running because he didn't want to put his family in the public eye.

In Britain we have Oona (sp?) King, who has faded from prominence a bit, and Paul Boaetang, who was touted for a big political future but is now High Commissioner for South Africa.

There's also Baroness Amos, the current leader of the House of Lords.

Other than that I'm struggling.

Originally posted by kathythebean
My lifetime, perhaps, probably not yours :hihi:
What do you mean by that?
I'm only 27!

wont happen in my lifetime i dont think.
theres still to many right racist people around of all colours and creed to let it happen. but it would be nice to think it will oneday. In theory it should go th the best person (see im p.c :hihi: ) for the job. but does it ever.........:loopy:

Well, the new Archbishop of York is most certainly a 'non white thang' - Dr Sentamu who was born in Zimbabwe (IIRC).

I can see it happening but I only hope that when it does happen it's done on the merits of the individual involved and not on some trumped up race relations/multicultural thing.

I would also expect to see more people from different ethnic backgrounds representing the Conservative Party now that David Cameron has become their Leader.

Again, I hope such people are there due to their own skills and not just so the Tories can claim 'Our party has more black representation (and/or females) than Labour'. It then becomes a token gesture or, if you prefer, a gimmick.

Originally posted by Lea1979
I'd like to think that we would be able to see it.

I would say it is much more likely to happen in the UK than in America though, just my thought.

BTW do you mean just black or any non-white? So that could cover, Asian etc ?
I meant anyone other than the usual white who we see in office.
So yes open to Asian, Oriental, Eskimo, Native American :P

Could very easily be Condoleezza Rice up against Hilary Clinton at the next presidential election, While Rice winning would of course mean another awful neo-con in office it might satisfy Morrissey;

"In America, The land of the free, they said, And of opportunity, In a just and a truthful way
But where the president, Is never black, female or gay, And until that day
You've got nothing to say to me, To help me believe"

Ian Cammeron has already noted that there is a lack of black MPs in the commons and has said he plans to change that so maybe we may eventually get a black Prime Minister but not in the next 12 years.

Unfortunately he also pointed out that there is a lack of Women in parliment to and he plans to change that.
I can certainly cope with the prospect of a black Prime Minister, but draw the line at a women.:nono:

I can see it happening in the US They have lots of ethnic mayors senators etc. It may take longer in this country our political inertia and the fact that we have so few ethnic MP's will make it difficult. I wonder how politically active our ethnic origin (I hate the term but can't really think of an alternative for someone who's grandad was born in Pakistan or Jamaca etc. For those forum members who fit this model, how do you relate to your "ethnicity"? when its relevent what terms do you prefer?) population is and perhaps that is the greatest stumbling block to political inclusion for what is largely an unrepresented section of our community.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Remember the movie Deep Impact? Morgan Freeman played a black American President (who by the way I think would make a good president). I was wondering if we'd ever see the day (in our lifetimes) where we would see a black American President a black Prime Minister for the UK?

We've already been down the road of having a female Prime Minister (lets not get into that debate though), so it durely must be a matter of time before we see someone not white in office.

Do you think it would be in our lifetimes or do you think that the UK & the US just dont have the racial stability yet to experience something that would be initially controversial to a lot of people?

Thoughts?

I'm hoping Obama will get the chance to run the time after next. he is young, bright, intellegent and just about perfect for the job. Rumours are he may be Clinton'c running mate next time around

Originally posted by max
[B]As has been seen from the selection of Miss England, who is an Uzbekistani, for this year's Miss World people are selected on merit irrespective of ethnicity in this country.


if only that were true in practice

where the president is never black, female or gay
and until that day, you've got nothing to say to me

:)

I think it MAY happen in the USA before the UK - not that it is a sprint to a finish line but in big business in the USA (and unfortunately politics is big business now) and unlike the UK, the USA you can get to the top being whatever minority group if you are good at your job - if you are making millions or billions for someone then someone will like that and do what they can to keep you there.

Although in the USA politics (not so much normal big business), your face has got to fit - so does that mean because someone is black the stereotypes will follow them around like the same stereotypes we have that keep others from getting their foot in the door? I doubt it because when you are at that stage and ready to challange for the most powerful position in the world you've probably already overcome 'most' of those obsticles to get that position and clever advertising and spin does the rest to assure your position which is how you get a douche as a president.

In the UK, although probably less racist (in my opinion) in the terms someone would commit a hate crime just because of their race, getting into a powerful position in the UK seems harder for a minority. Being male middle-class and white is the best position in UK politics because although racism has been and often continues to be a problem, it has never been in the scale of the USA. Like there has never been a Dr. M L King, Rosa Parks or a Malcolm X etc come up and rebel in the scale they managed across the pond, which highlights any discriminations and dertimes a few minorities to suceed no matter what. Because it's never really been seen as BIG a problem in the UK - then the strong willed person has never imerged to get to the top of politics.

I've just read this back, and I'm poor at saying what I mean but hopefully you may understand - all to do with circumstance in other words. Say for example, there was something in the UK equivilent to the LA riots (April 1992 I think), where there had a been a deep underlying racism by those in power - that one minority might think 'fudge this' and decide to make their way to the top to become prime minister... and get corrupted that way like the USA not mentioning any names *cough* ahem C. Rice *cough* *splutter*...

excuse me... :o

I agree, it’s likely to happen in the US first (strangely). Mainly because there are a few faces that are very well respected.

There is talk about a 2008 showdown between Condi Rice and Hillary Clinton. Condi probably doesn't stand much of a chance due to developing scandals (probably no Republican stands a chance), even Hillary is looking a little like a lame duck. But their is a (very) outside chance of a black woman being President.

Powel is very well thought of (apart from UN speech). But again i think we may see him running in 2008.

But my money is on this guy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

He has the best approval ratings of any senator. He won't be running in 2008, but i think in 2012 we will see him running and he could just be the first black president.

Originally posted by Gethical
I think it MAY happen in the USA before the UK - not that it is a sprint to a finish line but in big business in the USA (and unfortunately politics is big business now) and unlike the UK, the USA you can get to the top being whatever minority group if you are good at your job - if you are making millions or billions for someone then someone will like that and do what they can to keep you there.

Although in the USA politics (not so much normal big business), your face has got to fit - so does that mean because someone is black the stereotypes will follow them around like the same stereotypes we have that keep others from getting their foot in the door? I doubt it because when you are at that stage and ready to challange for the most powerful position in the world you've probably already overcome 'most' of those obsticles to get that position and clever advertising and spin does the rest to assure your position which is how you get a douche as a president.

In the UK, although probably less racist (in my opinion) in the terms someone would commit a hate crime just because of their race, getting into a powerful position in the UK seems harder for a minority. Being male middle-class and white is the best position in UK politics because although racism has been and often continues to be a problem, it has never been in the scale of the USA. Like there has never been a Dr. M L King, Rosa Parks or a Malcolm X etc come up and rebel in the scale they managed across the pond, which highlights any discriminations and dertimes a few minorities to suceed no matter what. Because it's never really been seen as BIG a problem in the UK - then the strong willed person has never imerged to get to the top of politics.

I've just read this back, and I'm poor at saying what I mean but hopefully you may understand - all to do with circumstance in other words. Say for example, there was something in the UK equivilent to the LA riots (April 1992 I think), where there had a been a deep underlying racism by those in power - that one minority might think 'fudge this' and decide to make their way to the top to become prime minister... and get corrupted that way like the USA not mentioning any names *cough* ahem C. Rice *cough* *splutter*...

excuse me... :o

Excellent post, Gethical - I think you're spot-on in what you say.

Personally, I think it's much more likely that the USA will elect a black president before the UK gets a black PM. If Colin Powell had decided to run a few years ago, I think the Americans would've already had one. As it stands at the moment, Condoleeza Rice has a good chance of becoming the first black (and woman) president. She comes over very well, sounds like she knows what she's talking about, inspires confidence and is photogenic (VERY useful in politics nowadays!). Though her beliefs are so right-wing it's a terrifying prospect. :help: It's almost like she's had to be much more right-wing than the equivalent white male to be taken seriously - a bit like Thatcher being more of an alpha-male than anyone else in British politics at the time.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle
It's almost like she's had to be much more right-wing than the equivalent white male to be taken seriously - a bit like Thatcher being more of an alpha-male than anyone else in British politics at the time.


Very interesting connection :)

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Remember the movie Deep Impact? Morgan Freeman played a black American President (who by the way I think would make a good president). I was wondering if we'd ever see the day (in our lifetimes) where we would see a black American President a black Prime Minister for the UK?

We've already been down the road of having a female Prime Minister (lets not get into that debate though), so it durely must be a matter of time before we see someone not white in office.

Do you think it would be in our lifetimes or do you think that the UK & the US just dont have the racial stability yet to experience something that would be initially controversial to a lot of people?

Thoughts?

Maybe thats why it's called "THe White House' :hihi:

Originally posted by poppins
Maybe thats why it's called "THe White House' :hihi:

or maybe it's because it's a white house!!

can't see it happening in the US... middle america is very f**ked up by all accounts

a black man just wouldn't get votes there





edit: or woman :D

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Remember the movie Deep Impact? Morgan Freeman played a black American President (who by the way I think would make a good president). I was wondering if we'd ever see the day (in our lifetimes) where we would see a black American President a black Prime Minister for the UK?

We've already been down the road of having a female Prime Minister (lets not get into that debate though), so it durely must be a matter of time before we see someone not white in office.

Do you think it would be in our lifetimes or do you think that the UK & the US just dont have the racial stability yet to experience something that would be initially controversial to a lot of people?

Thoughts?

We had a female PM because the ratio of Men to Women is almost 50/50. The Black to White is no where near that amount and therefore the likeliness of having a Black PM is pretty slim.

I’m not against the idea but if parliament is a representation of the population at large (meant to be) then a Black PM has little hope of success.

I personally look forward to the day we look beyond skin colour and judge people on their abilities and achievements instead.

This is a little off topic, but I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a friend of mine on Sunday.

We were talking about the X Factor and who would win. She said Shane, but I replied that I thought Brenda could win it. She then said that a black person wouldn't win it because the british population is too institutionally racist for that to happen. When I disputed this, she pointed out that no UK reality TV show thus far has been won by a black person.

I still maintained that the general public weren't that racist, so we had a bet on it. If Andy or Brenda wins, she pays me £5. If Shane or Journey South win, then I pay her £5.

As long as it's a Republican African American - Middle America's opinions won't matter (trust me :hihi: )

And I agree with the people who said it will happen in the UK before the US - The UK is a lot more eager to please when it comes to race relations.

Originally posted by unnamed
or maybe it's because it's a white house!!

can't see it happening in the US... middle america is very f**ked up by all accounts

a black man just wouldn't get votes there





edit: or woman :D

Say goodbye to your £5.00, my friend - your friend is very, very right. In fact, I'd make a bet with you myself, if I knew you. Despite the fact that Brenda & Andy are in a different (much higher) league than Shayne/JS, they don't stand a chance. Look at what happened in last year's Fame Academy with Lemar and Popstars: The Rivals with Javine.

Originally posted by Daley
This is a little off topic, but I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a friend of mine on Sunday.

We were talking about the X Factor and who would win. She said Shane, but I replied that I thought Brenda could win it. She then said that a black person wouldn't win it because the british population is too institutionally racist for that to happen. When I disputed this, she pointed out that no UK reality TV show thus far has been won by a black person.

I still maintained that the general public weren't that racist, so we had a bet on it. If Andy or Brenda wins, she pays me £5. If Shane or Journey South win, then I pay her £5.

stars_gazing,

I assume you didn't mean to state that by agreeing with Daley's friends comment "the British population is too institutionally racist" you think that EVERYONE in the UK is racist!

If you do, then you must live under a rock as I for one, and most people on here are NOT RACIST!

Hey Serapis,

I don't have an opinion on the matter either way; just calling it as I see it. Do I think the whole of the UK is racist? No. But I definitely think the racists outnumber the non-racists.

Originally posted by serapis
stars_gazing,

I assume you didn't mean to state that by agreeing with Daley's friends comment "the British population is too institutionally racist" you think that EVERYONE in the UK is racist!

If you do, then you must live under a rock as I for one, and most people on here are NOT RACIST!

Originally posted by Daley
This is a little off topic, but I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a friend of mine on Sunday.

We were talking about the X Factor and who would win. She said Shane, but I replied that I thought Brenda could win it. She then said that a black person wouldn't win it because the british population is too institutionally racist for that to happen. When I disputed this, she pointed out that no UK reality TV show thus far has been won by a black person.

I still maintained that the general public weren't that racist, so we had a bet on it. If Andy or Brenda wins, she pays me £5. If Shane or Journey South win, then I pay her £5.

The stronger - 'ready made' 'artists' never win.

They (the producers) like to give the win to people for whom it might give a career. The ones that are assured of a career in music (i.e. min. one album) tend to come in second.

Michelle McManus/Rik Waller anyone?

Originally posted by stars_gazing
Hey Serapis,

I don't have an opinion on the matter either way; just calling it as I see it. Do I think the whole of the UK is racist? No. But I definitely think the racists outnumber the non-racists.

Err, racism isn't only perpetrated by white people on black and other people of ethnicity. Theres a massive problem with racism in all cultures. Its just that it's very "Guardianlike" and fashionable to blame white people hence those that claim most white people are racist are usually white themselves.

Now we have a very diverse multicultural society we are seeing that racism exists in all cultures and not just within the white british community. Look at recent events in Birmingham and London, for example.

Dont believe everything the liberal media tell you, racism is instilled in all communities and its a massive problem. To assume the results of a TV talent competition would be influenced by the colour of someones skin is incredibly naive and so off the mark. If I am right isn't Chico from North Africa? He lacked talent yet got so far in the X factor beating more talented people. Why did the so called racist british public not vote him off?

I had no idea he was from North Africa & so most others would not have known either.


Originally posted by yer_get_meh
Err, racism isn't only perpetrated by white people on black and other people of ethnicity. Theres a massive problem with racism in all cultures. Its just that it's very "Guardianlike" and fashionable to blame white people hence those that claim most white people are racist are usually white themselves.

Now we have a very diverse multicultural society we are seeing that racism exists in all cultures and not just within the white british community. Look at recent events in Birmingham and London, for example.

Dont believe everything the liberal media tell you, racism is instilled in all communities and its a massive problem. To assume the results of a TV talent competition would be influenced by the colour of someones skin is incredibly naive and so off the mark. If I am right isn't Chico from North Africa? He lacked talent yet got so far in the X factor beating more talented people. Why did the so called racist british public not vote him off?

Hey Daley,

Did you see the show tonight? It's not looking good is it :shakes:
TBH if Andy wins over Journey South / Shayne, I will be so gobsmacked that.. that.. I will buy the first 10 forum members that take me up on this, a drink each!

Originally posted by Daley
This is a little off topic, but I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a friend of mine on Sunday.

We were talking about the X Factor and who would win. She said Shane, but I replied that I thought Brenda could win it. She then said that a black person wouldn't win it because the british population is too institutionally racist for that to happen. When I disputed this, she pointed out that no UK reality TV show thus far has been won by a black person.

I still maintained that the general public weren't that racist, so we had a bet on it. If Andy or Brenda wins, she pays me £5. If Shane or Journey South win, then I pay her £5.