The government are to issue vouchers for free fruit and vegetables to low income groups in an attempt to stem the tide of obesity........WHY?

Since when has a low income made people fat? There weren't too many fat people around in the 1930's.

It's not about income but more about lifestyle choices. A carrier bag full of fruit and vegetables costs no more than a couple of McDonalds so whats the problem.

i agree - surely that would stigmatise lower income families and give the perception that poorer people are generally more obese and too inadequate to make lifestyle choices - how strange!

are there stats which prove that the poorer you are the more obese you are??!!

I totally agree. It's disgusting. They are implying that low-income families are too stupid to know what's good for them and what's not.

The government owe an explanation here.

Bedhead I am not saying that it stigmatises lower income families but why should the taxpayer foot the bill when people are choosing to spend their money on c**p.

Don't high-income families eat crap, then? And if the answer is yes, which I am sure it is, are they likely to lower themselves by queueing up for their free fruit and veg vouchers?

I think not.

I'm afraid it's a swipe at the less well-off.

i totally agree. its more likly the higher income people are more obese than the low income people

The government must think that the stereoypical low-earners of this country live like The Slobbs. I would suggest that this may be more the case with a lot of the high earners.

There was something on TV the other day about the government planning to put a tax on fatty foods, or foods that generally are not healthy, in order to try to steer us away from them and encourage us as a nation to become healthier. Nothing was mentioned about low incomes. Personally I feel it's just another way to get even more money out of the People. Utterly ridiculous.

At the end of the day, people eat unhealthy food because they like eating unhealthy food. No amount of free fruit or veg could stop it. If I was given free fruit, I'd just probably eat just as much crap and scoff the fruit as well.

Originally posted by Mo
The government are to issue vouchers for free fruit and vegetables to low income groups in an attempt to stem the tide of obesity........WHY?

Since when has a low income made people fat? There weren't too many fat people around in the 1930's.

Millions of em wiped out in both wars, rationing etc. Also a lot less processed food in everyone's diet.

It's not about income but more about lifestyle choices. A carrier bag full of fruit and vegetables costs no more than a couple of McDonalds so whats the problem.

But low income and obesity are closely correlated. Anyone care to suggest causal links? Why do the poorer sections of society consistently choose the worst food from a weight perspective? Because it is more or less expensive than allegedly healthy food?

Cheap fruit and veg from a cheap greenogrocer will go off much more quickly. It is cheap for a reason. Cheap meat is likely to be fatty offcuts with hydrolysed animal protein injected into it to bulk it up.

Cheap food is stuffed with crap to make it more enjoyable to eat.

The less money you spend on food, the poorer quality it is and vice versa (up to a point).

If you don't have much money, then the one other thing you are really short of is time. You must walk and wait for buses everywhere, use Launderettes, etc. Time is money.

And money is the time to spend 45 minutes preparing grilled seabream on a bed of rocket with a jus of red onion etc.

Had a quick search for any stats linking obesity and income - there is a report on the FSA website but it doesn't show much.

Other interesting facts here

http://www.foodstandards.gov.uk/healthiereating/promotion/promofacts/

here is an article about the vouchers

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1149471,00.html

some diet/income related stats. Obesity, when not a glandular disorder, is fequently linked to a poor quality diet (sat fats, HVP, HVO etc)

Social factors

The individual's choice of food is affected in a number of ways including:
food adverts
place where the shopping is done, ie convenience stores will have less choice of foods than supermarkets
people with busy lifestyles or poor cooking facilities will eat convenience, easy to cook foods or takeaways
foods which are associated with comfort are eaten in preference to foods which are not pleasant to eat.

Economic factors

In addition, surveys show low income people have a poor diet. Examples include:
the national Food Survey 1991 (MAFF 1992a) showed the richest fifth of the population consume 70 per cent more fresh fruit, 20 per cent more green vegetables and 400 per cent more fruit juice than the poorest third
another survey by the National Children's Home (NCH 1991) used 354 families from NCH centres to show relations between low income and poor diet. This found a direct relationship between lowest income and poorest diet 20 per cent of parents and 10 per cent of children had gone without food because of lack of money
the Dietary and Nutritional Survey of British adults (Gregory et al 1990) showed that the dietary intakes of fibre, sugar, protein and vitamins tended to be higher among men and women in higher socio-economic groups than those in lower groups, but there was no consistent trend from group to group.


and as any fule kno, its not so much what you cut out as what you include, when to comes to a healthy balanced diet.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
and as any fule kno, its not so much what you cut out as what you include, when it comes to a healthy balanced diet.

Surely that doesn't extend to sugar and salt?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme


But low income and obesity are closely correlated. Anyone care to suggest causal links? Why do the poorer sections of society consistently choose the worst food from a weight perspective? Because it is more or less expensive than allegedly healthy food?

Cheap fruit and veg from a cheap greenogrocer will go off much more quickly. It is cheap for a reason. Cheap meat is likely to be fatty offcuts with hydrolysed animal protein injected into it to bulk it up.

The less money you spend on food, the poorer quality it is and vice versa (up to a point).

If you don't have much money, then the one other thing you are really short of is time. You must walk and wait for buses everywhere, use Launderettes, etc. Time is money.

And money is the time to spend 45 minutes preparing grilled seabream on a bed of rocket with a jus of red onion etc.


Perhaps many choose the worst food from a weight perspective because they can't be arsed to cook proper food or don't know how to cook proper food if their parents lived on convenience foods.

Fruit and veg from any greengrocer or supermarket is not expensive when compared to ready cook meals and burger type meals. I couldn't afford to live on convenience foods if I wanted to.

From your final comment I now know that you are taking the Michael.

Originally posted by max
Surely that doesn't extend to sugar and salt?
That wasn't an absolute there max.


its not so much what you cut out as what you include


Sugar is no problem apart from teeth, providing you exercise. Obviously the more refined it is (like any drug) the more dangerous and habit forming it becomes.

There is too much salt in processed food certainly. But the more fresh fruit and veg, lean meat, oily fish you eat the less time and appetite you will have for other things.

So exclusion as a result of inclusion is what I was getting at.

Also when it comes to fresh fruit and veg, it pays to eat as many different coloured ones as possible as this provides you with the best spread of flavinoids and trace elements.

It makes sense to me - if you're on a budget you tend to eat higher energy foods because you can't afford as much. Being that vegetables aren't high energy then they tend to be left out.

Originally posted by Mo
Perhaps many choose the worst food from a weight perspective because they can't be arsed to cook proper food or don't know how to cook proper food if their parents lived on convenience foods.

Fruit and veg from any greengrocer or supermarket is not expensive when compared to ready cook meals and burger type meals. I couldn't afford to live on convenience foods if I wanted to.

From your final comment I now know that you are taking the Michael.

It was a serious point, badly put.

Money buys you time. And lack of time is one of the factors cited when people are asked why they do not, for example, always prepare meals from fresh, raw, high quality ingredients.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
That wasn't an absolute there max.



Sugar is no problem apart from teeth, providing you exercise. Obviously the more refined it is (like any drug) the more dangerous and habit forming it becomes.

There is too much salt in processed food certainly. But the more fresh fruit and veg, lean meat, oily fish you eat the less time and appetite you will have for other things.

So exclusion as a result of inclusion is what I was getting at.

Also when it comes to fresh fruit and veg, it pays to eat as many different coloured ones as possible as this provides you with the best spread of flavinoids and trace elements.

Thanks for clearing that up. It was the point I was trying to make but I thought red rag to bull time 'cos phanny'll do it so much better.:thumbsup:

so is sugar a drug??

Originally posted by Fletch
so is sugar a drug??

I am all for encouraging anyone to eat more fruit and veg.

I will take some vouchers please..

Is there a delivery service like Tesco and Somerfield also?

Originally posted by Fletch
so is sugar a drug??
Ask any doctor and they'll tell you it isn't. Ask Phan and he'll tell you it is. :P ;)

The main reason I don't really eat alot of fruit and veg is because you have to buy it in bulk (well, you don't have to, but it would seem silly going into a supermarket and buying 1 apple or 1 onion). I'm normally out at lunch time and I would forget to take fruit with me if I had some, and even if i did take it it would get squashed in my bag. In the evening I never get time to do an awful lot of cooking. Even if I did cook vegetables every night, I'm only cooking for myself, so I wouldn't be able to use all my vegetables before they go bad.

Originally posted by Sidla
Ask any doctor and they'll tell you it isn't. Ask Phan and he'll tell you it is. :P ;)


Sidla, just out of interest, have you asked any doctor, because I have asked few? Pharmacologists also.

Sucrose is mind altering.
Sucrose is habit forming.
Sucrose is not required for nutritional health.

If I got free fruit and veg, I'd save a fortune. I get through at least two apples a day, and a couple of oranges and pears.

I have just come out of the benefit system, I would have loved free fruit and veg, I did buy it anyway but not as much as I should have.The thing with being poor was that not being able to afford much else, food does become a comfort, and when you can't give your children much in the material sense, you do use food for treats.
Why knock anything thats free? At least it will give people on lower incomes a chance of a healthier diet and will allow them to spend their money on something else.

Originally posted by elf

Why knock anything thats free? At least it will give people on lower incomes a chance of a healthier diet and will allow them to spend their money on something else.

an obvious but very good point

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Sidla, just out of interest, have you asked any doctor, because I have asked few? Pharmacologists also.

Sucrose is mind altering.
Sucrose is habit forming.
Sucrose is not required for nutritional health.

Interesting article from October last year:

http://web.sfn.org/content/Publications/BrainBriefings/sugar.html

Nomme