Imo the structial systems in our society are outdated and inefficient. They have little relevence to the society we live in today. I'd like to see a whole scale restructuring of many of our institutions and a hole rethinking to the way our instituions operate.

Our model of liberal democracy was fine 50 years ago but times change.

I'd like to see several areas completely revamped including:

education

juducuary/prisons

police

NHS

Government

Civil Service.


for example, I see little point in our current educational system. It does little more than condemn non-academically minded people to come out under-qualified. In no longer is able to fulfil its purpose of producing skilled workers or able to produce the people with th skills to fill the jobs needed to power this economy.

It is no more than a way of guaranteeing that every pupil learns the same things parrot fashion. The National Curriculum is little more than another means of social control. It doesn;t ensure people are educated or taught.

Children are not encouraged or allowed to be able to think or structure arguments or debates. They are not encouraged to question or stimulated to read around subjects.

I would like to see a system where:

children start secondary school a year earlier

at the age of 14 they will have the option to learn skills as part of their education or to specialise towards a certain subject.

The summer holiday will be scrapped but schools will finish earlier with schools providing extra sport/creative classes up till 5pm.

There will be specialist classes on Saturday mornings. These will especially concentrate on sports and the arts.

We used to be Great Britain but there is very little Great about this country anymore. I believe we need a complete rething about the way our country operates in order for our society to progress and evolve.

Does anyone else think that our society is in need of severe changes?

I think children should have the same length of secondary education as they do in the states 'til 18. Then all must go to college :D

Originally posted by fox20thc
I think children should have the same length of secondary education as they do in the states 'til 18. Then all must go to college :D

personally I'd be against this. One of the worst things to effect the education system in the modern era is the fact than almost anyone can go to university. Degrees have been watered down to the extent of being uselss.

We don;t need and cannot sustain a wholey academic populus. We need those with skills and unskilled to fill our jobs.

The top 10-20 % should go to university. We should scrap the new universities and make them into specialised collegues.

this country wants a complete shake up its gone p***pot
our judges are out of touch in fact i dont think some are on the same planet mp,s self first self last

Our education system has just missed a golden opportunity to be the best system in the world.

The Tomlinson report proposed the biggest, most forward thinking change to education that was financially feasible and would have meant that within the next ten years out education system would be churning out a workforce that would have skills to their ability, motivation and interests.

Alongside a core section of Mathematics, English and Science (which reduced in size with age) 14-19 year olds would have them picked academic and vocational modules based on what they wanted to do.

Some people know what they want to do, a person who is certain about being a plumber could have taken a plumbing vocation, and chosen to do business modules, maybe even some extra science or physics. Alongside this, if they had a hobby such as Art then they could have picked up a module of this. They could even (at the later stages) use modules to complete work based learning so many times a week so they would have valuable experience of their chosen trade.

Someone very academically minded could pick to focus on an area of their expertise or keep their options open and study a wide variety of academic subjects.

Another aspect to this education system was a 'stage not age' based approach to learning where students sat exams and passed modules when THEY were ready not at some indeterminate age simply set by the government, as is the case with A-levels and GCSEs. A person at the end of their compulsory education would end up with a standard diploma, citing all the modules they had passed and at what level.

This is a very similar (but a step further) to the International Baccalaureate and would have made education a system I would have been proud to put any prospective children I have through.

It didn't happen though, for the most stupid of reasons IMHO. Ruth Kelley talked to her middle england constituents pre- General Election and decided that such a radical shake up of education (the scrapping of GCSEs and A-levels) would intimidate some of her supporters, whose children were likely to get 10 As at GCSE and go to a red brick university. The old system favours those small minority at the expense of alienating and forcing the rest of the population into a low feeling of self worth, forced by lack of academic/vocational parity of esteem to work in service industry jobs because that is what they think they're 'good enough' for.

It is one of the things that gets me SO mad that a politician can put selfish concerns like re-election before her job as Education minister. That she can sit there and look after a small minority of children and not give a toss about the rest, despite them being the ones she's supposed to be shaping a future for.

Wilf

The juducual system needs overhauling.

I want:

younger judges from differing backgrounds (class, experience, race etc) why you need to be a rich, old, upper class twit to make a judgement call god only knows.

I'd like to see people encouraged to become magistrates.

Only people who commit serious crimes or are deemed un-rehabilitatable should be locked up in prison.

young offenders should have intense rehabilitation and encouragement to learn skills/vocations and given the support to follow it through.

People with drug problems are sick. They should be placed in secure rehabilitation centres and only released when they are clean. full support and training should be given

All local ofenders should be named and shamed with pictures up in public places.

Victims of crime should always have the option to face the criminals

There should be more resources in poor communities to prevent people commiting the crimes in the first place. More counselling, advise and support.


we need to get communities involved at every level of crime prevention and the judicial system

Originally posted by BrainThrust
Ruth Kelley talked to her middle england constituents pre- General Election...It is one of the things that gets me SO mad that a politician can put selfish concerns like re-election before her job as Education minister.


Don't forget, she works for the vatican first, the british government second.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Don't forget, she works for the vatican first, the british government second.

Quite correct. She will breed herself into the gutter first and foremost.

Originally posted by robbie
for example, I see little point in our current educational system. It does little more than condemn non-academically minded people to come out under-qualified. In no longer is able to fulfil its purpose of producing skilled workers or able to produce the people with th skills to fill the jobs needed to power this economy.

It is no more than a way of guaranteeing that every pupil learns the same things parrot fashion. The National Curriculum is little more than another means of social control. It doesn;t ensure people are educated or taught.

Children are not encouraged or allowed to be able to think or structure arguments or debates. They are not encouraged to question or stimulated to read around subjects.

I would like to see a system where:

children start secondary school a year earlier

at the age of 14 they will have the option to learn skills as part of their education or to specialise towards a certain subject.

The summer holiday will be scrapped but schools will finish earlier with schools providing extra sport/creative classes up till 5pm.

There will be specialist classes on Saturday mornings. These will especially concentrate on sports and the arts.



back of the NC, its a means for sumertive assessment, how else would we do it? why shorten their childhood? why can't they receive vocational training later on?......the main problem in schools is that children do not respect their own environment, its almost cool to drop litter and to vandalise, i see this as the real problem

great things are happening in school, 14-19 is giving pupils more choices, there are even some schools that have their own farm!

i have said for ages that kids should finish school earlier then get involved in activities for a couple of hours everyday, thats what they do in the states and its great.

leave the summer holidays, if anything make them longer- let kids be kids

At junior school I wasone of the best in the class and a group of us ended up doing a lot of work we duplicated in the 1st and 2nd year at secondary school.

you could fit junior school learning into one less year easier


or use that year to advance subtebly bright students a year and allow those who are behind to catch up in those subjects

I think compulsory education should continue until 16, finishing with GCSE's, but GCSE's should be opened up to include more vocational options. A-levels should be scrapped and the Internatinal Baccalaureate should be put in its place for the more academically gifted.

Those who at 16 who don't wish to take the academic route should then have the option to take NVQ's or take up an apprenticeship in a trade.

Teachers should be given more freedom in what they can teach. Although a syllabus is necessary in order to guide towards exams, space should be made so the teacher can teach topics the students are interested in.

In fact, if I were to have children I would homeschool as I think the system is that bad. I don;t think homeschooling is healthy for kids but a lot more healthy than our awful education system.

this thread isn;t about me saying my ideas are right but about people thinking about the whole soeciety we live in. the fundamental basis of the institutions around us are rarely question and just there as a given

Originally posted by robbie
this thread isn;t about me saying my ideas are right but about people thinking about the whole soeciety we live in. the fundamental basis of the institutions around us are rarely question and just there as a given

to me it sounds like you're having a major dig at the educational system.......

do you see any positives in the current educational system?

.........of course your opinions are welcome, but are you involved in the education system? do you know what goes on in schools?.......you seem in the know so i expect you do

yes there are positives.

however it isn;t working.

teachers get less freedom year on year to actually teach

they have to get through set amounts per lesson

the curriculum is too rigid

too many pointless tests

too much beaurocracy

we are producing a generation of people who aren;t taught to think or to question or to enquire.

we aren;t headed for a cultural revolution but a cultural regression imo.

and it isn;t a dig at the educational system alone but all our uinstitutions. they are outdated.

The way schooling is run is only a small part of education.

There needs to be a whole new approach to education, with a focus on pupils educating themselves. Schools can not just spoon feed children, they should be encouraged to take responsibilty for their own education and this should start in Primary School.

I have very little knowledge of education in this country. But an Australian model might be a good one to follow, where students can take control of their own learning.

Education is largely about learning how to learn. Once a student has grasped this, their learning can go anywhere.

Originally posted by robbie
yes there are positives.

however it isn;t working.

teachers get less freedom year on year to actually teach

they have to get through set amounts per lesson

the curriculum is too rigid

too many pointless tests

too much beaurocracy

we are producing a generation of people who aren;t taught to think or to question or to enquire.

we aren;t headed for a cultural revolution but a cultural regression imo.

and it isn;t a dig at the educational system alone but all our uinstitutions. they are outdated.

how do you know about all these problems with the educational system? are you a teacher? parent? class room assistant?.......or an educated member of society who can see all these problems?

I have been through the education system. I have studied it. I have several friends who are teachers at primary and secondary level.

Originally posted by Zenmaster
The way schooling is run is only a small part of education.

There needs to be a whole new approach to education, with a focus on pupils educating themselves. Schools can not just spoon feed children, they should be encouraged to take responsibilty for their own education and this should start in Primary School.

I have very little knowledge of education in this country. But an Australian model might be a good one to follow, where students can take control of their own learning.

Education is largely about learning how to learn. Once a student has grasped this, their learning can go anywhere.

you clearly don't know things like this are happening........

http://www.aoy.org.uk/main.php

Originally posted by robbie
I have been through the education system. I have studied it. I have several friends who are teachers at primary and secondary level.

well i work in the educational system, in fact i'm a maths teacher at a secondary school in sheffield and i think there's a lot going right in the education system.

Speaking on behalf of my collegues, we generally agree that there is about the right amount of sumerative testing in schools, yeah there is quite a lot of beuracracy but schools are working towards improving teacher's work/life balance.

education is constantly improving and of course we're aiming for ideolgy, there are loads of things going on in school that are great, sport, productions, 3part lessons, IT in the class room, college days, fim studies, business trips, community work,.......there are so many more.

yeah the curriculum is fairly rigid, but we work towards the assessment criteria,,,,,,,,,,what do you suggest, let schools have their own assessment criteria?

Originally posted by rocketpig
you clearly don't know things like this are happening........

http://www.aoy.org.uk/main.php

You seem knowledgable rocketpig.

Any idea how widespread this is, how many schools are actually UFA partners? It seems like a very positive initiative.

its still fairly new, its getting big in Wakefield apparently, and i'm part of it in sheff and its on the increase....it is superb and its exactly whats needed.........the focus is on study skills, anything from kids hygiene to A level revision to educating adults in crotia.

....its on the up, look out for it

Originally posted by rocketpig
well i work in the educational system, in fact i'm a maths teacher at a secondary school in sheffield and i think there's a lot going right in the education system.

Speaking on behalf of my collegues, we generally agree that there is about the right amount of sumerative testing in schools, yeah there is quite a lot of beuracracy but schools are working towards improving teacher's work/life balance.

education is constantly improving and of course we're aiming for ideolgy, there are loads of things going on in school that are great, sport, productions, 3part lessons, IT in the class room, college days, fim studies, business trips, community work,.......there are so many more.

yeah the curriculum is fairly rigid, but we work towards the assessment criteria,,,,,,,,,,what do you suggest, let schools have their own assessment criteria?

I suggest more flexible subject bases. It will obviously be more difficult and take more time to mark but people may actually learn stuff.

I don;t know what ages you teach but my maths learning was very flexible until it got to GCSE. There were different modules and you could work on them at your own pace and in different order.

Maths (and some sciences) tend to be slightly different to a lot of other subjects in the way it is taught imo. much less room for flexibility in a lot of what is taught.

My A level maths was basically taught like this. we are learning this today, if you don;t get it then tough luck because we have no time to go over it again. it was all about cramming it all in to the time we had.

same with gcse science. I didn;t learn half the curriculum because we had a rubbisg teacher who couldn;t manage to teach the proper stuff.

Originally posted by robbie
I suggest more flexible subject bases. It will obviously be more difficult and take more time to mark but people may actually learn stuff.

I don;t know what ages you teach but my maths learning was very flexible until it got to GCSE. There were different modules and you could work on them at your own pace and in different order.

Maths (and some sciences) tend to be slightly different to a lot of other subjects in the way it is taught imo. much less room for flexibility in a lot of what is taught.

My A level maths was basically taught like this. we are learning this today, if you don;t get it then tough luck because we have no time to go over it again. it was all about cramming it all in to the time we had.

same with gcse science. I didn;t learn half the curriculum because we had a rubbisg teacher who couldn;t manage to teach the proper stuff.

yeah maths and i suppose science is a progressive subject, you're gradually gathering more and more skills........you could walk into an A level socialolgy lesson and figure out whats going on, but most people wouldn't be able to follow a lesson on 2nd order differential equations lesson unless they've studued a lot of maths beforehand

these are all your own personal experiences, and you're right to base your opinions on them, but i don't think you can base an entire educational system change on them, just like i can't on mine, but i see loads of positives.

What you have said above sounds based on the quality of the teachers,......i teach up to A level and my pupils enjoy their lessons, i make it fun, we play games, compete and i introduce problem solving, sometimes the kids to the teaching. my lessons are market orientated, and i do my best to ensure they're understanding things as we go along.