There are plenty of people out there who claim to have seen ghosts, but I am not one of them. There's also plenty of evidence such as photographs etc, which supprts the idea, but none of which can be considered conclusive proof.

The question I am asking is aimed at all of the sceptics out there - what sort of evidence would you need in order to accept the idea that ghosts are real? Would you need to see one with your own eyes? Can you even trust your own eyes?

Also, for the philosophers amongst you, what do you think the implications for society would be if there was conclusive proof of the existence of ghosts?

I would have to see one. For those that claim to speak to spirit I would have to have information from a spirit that no one could know about.

The implications could be dire for those who believe in a heaven I guess, but all would be adpated to suit the religious purposes given new evidence. For example - the bones of dinosaurs are there to test us??

Moon

I would have to see one myself, to be convinced 100% mixed feeling about if I believe in them or not. Im always looking for some scientific or engineering explainations for things. Example dust particles captured as orbs on photos.

Having said that if did see a ghost I would probably run like hell :o

Show me some CLEAR, VIDEO footage and I might start thinking. Thats only THINKING though.... maybe to BELIEVE I'd have to see it with my own eyes and be at the place at the time.

Video footage t020 !? ... does that mean if you can't SEE something ... then it does't exist !?

What if ghosts are disembodied (perhaps human) beings ... and thus cannot be percieved directly by sight ...

What if you couldn't see one ... but you could 'feel' the presense of one !?

I don't think there ever would be conclusive proof of things like 'ghosts' ... or most other supernatural stuff.

The part of the human mind that deals with 'proof' kind of things is logical and methodical ... and the whole area of 'ghosts' and the supernatural (call it what you will) is out of bounds to your logical analytical 'knowing' mind.

So there !!

"ooooooo ohooohoo" *scarey voice*.

Originally posted by Jamie
Video footage t020 !? ... does that mean if you can't SEE something ... then it does't exist !?

What if ghosts are disembodied (perhaps human) beings ... and thus cannot be percieved directly by sight ...

What if you couldn't see one ... but you could 'feel' the presense of one !?

I don't think there ever would be conclusive proof of things like 'ghosts' ... or most other supernatural stuff.

The part of the human mind that deals with 'proof' kind of things is logical and methodical ... and the whole area of 'ghosts' and the supernatural (call it what you will) is out of bounds to your logical analytical 'knowing' mind.

So there !!

"ooooooo ohooohoo" *scarey voice*.



I'm a very logical, rational and methodical person though. To prove a that Ghosts exist, I'd need to SEE the proof for myself. The idea is too far fetched for me because I believe we live and then we die. On the subject of aliens I'm much more open, simply because the size of the universe is so big and filled with so many planets it would be very ignorant to believe that only 1 planet had developed life. Whether or not I believe they fly down and visit earth in flying saucers is another matter....

Originally posted by t020
Show me some CLEAR, VIDEO footage and I might start thinking. Thats only THINKING though.... maybe to BELIEVE I'd have to see it with my own eyes and be at the place at the time.


Were you asking for video footage, because you would be scared to see one for real ? :D

i thought that scientists had discovered a connection between ghosts and subsonic sounds and vibrations. i saw a documentary on tv not long ago where a ceiling fan was giving off low frequency sounds which caused a lab technician to experience ghostly sightings. something to do with the sound affecting his vision. they also contributed ghostly sightings in Edinburghs underground catacoombs to subsonic sounds. cant go into anymore detail as most of it was over my head, i'm afraid.

You should define what you mean by "ghost". I go for the "tape recorder" theory, but I'm really not sure about concious spirits of the dead that Doris Stokes chatted to.

Most events seem to be focused on the "viewer" and I suspect that most of it happens between the ears of the said viewer, whether they realise it or not.

Maybe they are a snapshot of time...captured in the form of energy to be released at a certain time.
Triggered by an outside medium capable of conducting such energy,such as electricity pylons (dancing children in stocksbridge) or absorbed into the fabric of a building.

Only a thought...

Originally posted by Tony

Most events seem to be focused on the "viewer" and I suspect that most of it happens between the ears of the said viewer, whether they realise it or not.

there is a lot of truth in what you say. i remember seeing another tv programme (i must get out more) about a lady who was driving home at night when she saw a headlight heading straight at her. as it got closer she saw that it was someone on a motorbike. instead of crashing head on into her, the bike and rider went straight through her. naturally, she thought she had seen a ghost.

it turned out her son had just purchased a motorbike and she was getting into a state about it, frightened he would have an accident. her anxiety had caused her brain to conjure up the image she saw. i wonder how many other 'ghost' sightings can be contributed to this type of thing?

I mentioned in another thread somewhere about the small black dog that I kept seeing out of the corner of my eye in the kitchen in the early hours of the morning when I was on the PC.

Eventually, jokingly, I mentined this to my son, who amazed me by aaying that he ahd seen it but didn't like to say anything as we would think he was mad. Then we mentioned it to my wife, and she too said she had seen it.

That was the Christmas before last. It never returned after we had talked about it.

this sounds a bit like that subsonic noise thing. the low frequency sounds stimulate the brains impulses to the eyes, which vibrate faster and cause the recipient to see ghostly shapes out of the corner of their eye. It also produces that cold feeling as if someone has walked over your grave, which people frequently report during ghost sightings. not saying this happened in your case, but the theory fits. apparently all kinds of things, including household appliances can emit these subsonic noises. wish i'd taped the damn programme now as i can't remember it all.

There's an artical about the subsonic insident here:

http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Ghost/ghosts_created_by_low_frequency.htm

One other common theory is that the ghostly feelings are created in areas with strong magnetic fields.

I think it would be hard not to believe your eyes if you ever saw a ghost for yourself, I often mention the magnetic field or low frequency explanations when people talk about ghosts but if I ever witnessed it for myself I'm sure I'd be scared witless.

So what do people make of that Derek Acurea of Most Haunted, making it all up?? I figure he's either: talking to ghosts; has a photographic memory; is in on the program, and it's all just made up resulting in huge viewing figures.

The closest I've come to seeing anything that might convince me that ghosts exist is when I was moving in with (now ex) flatmate last May.

We went to his old place to get the rest of his stuff and he'd told me numerous times that his old place was haunted by a ghost that him and his housemates had affectionately called 'Tim'. Not sure why the name but it was never explained to me.

Anyway, I was in the front room picking up some stuff and when I stood up the lampshade above me shifted violently off-centre so that it remained tilted. I figured that the nuts must be loose on the lampshade wire as they often get loose if they're old so I reached up to move it straight.

It was stuck solid! I couldn't move it back even with two hands and I'd have had to take it off the light to put it back properly. There's no way that it could've moved by itself and gotten itself so stuck that I couldn't move it back from where I was standing.

I thought this was kinda cool as I'd heard little ghost stories from others but never experienced anything remotely spooky myself until that time. :D

If they can affect us - i.e. injure or tell us next week's lottery numbers that might constitute evidence.

If they can't - i.e. they constitute no risk and deliver no benefit then who cares if they exist or not.

I think "a ghost" is merely our attempt to find a word for the feeling of unease we get in some locations - creaking old buildings, cold damp air, darkness - all of which may imply some level of risk in the natural environment and our senses are helpfully becoming more alert. Unusual sounds may indicate unexpected events like someone or something stalking you. The dark can conceal dangers. Cold damp air can easily form into some mist, in the dark perhaps with a shaft of light giving the impression of a translucent untouchable shape.

Originally posted by uniB
There's an artical about the subsonic insident here:

http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Ghost/ghosts_created_by_low_frequency.htm



thank-you. this is the incident i was referring to.

There is the resident highwayman @ Packman Lane near
Kiveton Park where I live - have spotted it many times and also
I wouldnt go near Roche Abbey & Anston Stones too..
maybe for a £1m quid like..

those orbs on most haunted intrigue me,the best orb on there wasnt round,but a shape like something was trying to materialise,curvy and that .

The tape recorder theory seems far more plausible and is more substantiated by repeat viewings by independent witnesses of the same thing. The idea of wandering spirits clanking chains etc pretty outdated.

Photographic evidence has existed for years, a good example being the Brown Lady of Raynham Hall that has resisted forgery analysis for 70 years.

Inevitably the mind blanks out what it can not comprehend while millions believe in god for which there is no evidence and no suggestion at all.

In terms of mediums, the dead pilots of the crashed R101 airship who appeared to speak after death was a fascinating example.

There is the resident highwayman @ Packman Lane near
Kiveton Park where I live - have spotted it many times and also
I wouldnt go near Roche Abbey & Anston Stones too..
maybe for a £1m quid like.. Packman lane you have to see it with full head lights on its nowt but light on the road i've seen it everytime someone has driven me down there..sorry now highwaymen sorry

There is the resident highwayman @ Packman Lane near
Kiveton Park where I live

Adam Ant still playing gigs out there ?? thought he'd packed it in..:hihi: