Am I the only person who utterly despairs of the "Police Service" in Sheffield.

Only one week after some of the worst ever chaos on the roads, not one police motorcycle was sent out to try and organise the traffic, but judging by the number that are parked outside ther Niagra social club on Match nights, South Yorkshire police have numerous motorcycles...

In any other country this resource would have been used to try and clear the junctions so that traffic can move.

No the best that the police can do, is to set up a mobile speed camera on the uphill stretch of Chesterfield road, probably the first opportunity the frustrated motorists have to get out of first gear since leaving town, and ZAP that will be £60- please.

Now this would make sense if the camera was in position at 3.15 when the kids are walking home from school, but no, they wait until it is dark and they have a better chance of catching people who exceed 30mph, if they can't actually see the thing.

Don't bother trying to justify it on the grounds that you can more easily kill a pedestrian at speeds over 30 mph, instead, ask yourselves " what is the pedestrian doing in the path of moving traffic ? " nobody who puts themselves in the path of moving traffic derives any benefit from the situation, whatever speed the traffic is doing.

The police service need to remember that they are there to serve the public, not to fleece them, there are enough criminals on the streets already and they seem singularly disinterested in catching the real criminals.:confused:

If you paying attention to the road ahead or not speeding you have nothing to worry about do you?

Why slag off the police because its the people that make the mistake to break the law and speed that are in the wrong?

There are cops for specific jobs, the traffic cops have their jobs and beat cops do something completely different etc.

I personaly like to speed, infact I love it, but there is a time and place, and don't think Chesterfield Road is it! ;)

As for getting traffic moving, no.1 offender is more likely to be poor traffic management on our roads in Sheffield and a council determined to stop vehicles going anywhere.

I think the police do a good job, they have always been reasonable with me. Been stopped a few times, providers are irritating, but if it gets uninsured/un-MOT'd cars off the road I don't care!

Originally posted by AlquarUK
I personaly like to speed, infact I love it, but there is a time and place, and don't think Chesterfield Road is it! ;)
To be fair, the guy has a point, in no way do I condolne speeding but after the now switched christmas lights at Abbey Lane/Chesterfield Road junction the uphill stretch past Morisson's is the first chance people get to 'drive' after leaving town. This stretch of road needs to be 2x2ised and if pedestrians use the pelican crossings next to Network Cabs and the other at Morison's then no one will be caught on a car's front bumper up that hill !

I believe that speed alone doesnt necessarily kill, unappropriate speeding does. And if one of the busiest roads in Sheffield doesnt have running kids accross it then a 40mph wont hurt will it ;)
SCC have afterall instigated a 40 up Netherthorpe on the Inner Ring Road ;)

I may be missing something but isn't the very best place for a camera where people suddenly decide to break the law having got to a stretch where they can start to speed. If that stretch of road is in a residential area, as this one is, then they may well have already saved some lives. If the original poster is suggesting that he gets frustrated in the busy traffic and then needs to speed when the road opens up, then I would suggest relaxation exercises or herbal tea. If that doesn't work then perhaps posting the licence back to the DVLA before someone is killed.

Would the sending out of a fleet of Police motorcyclists have moved the broken down buses which caused the majority of the traffic chaos last week any quicker.

No, the motorcyclists wouldn't have been able to lift the bus out of the way

As mentioned earlier, the traffic congestion soon comes about when one bus breaks down and that combined with the heavy current traffic flows and this councils traffic managment policies equals total mayhem.

Dont break the speed limit whenever you drive on the road and then you wont get caught wherever and whenever the speed traps are set up.

I always thought the speed limits were part of the law, so in your opinion it is alright to speed about on the roads mentioned apart from the times when the school turns out and doesnt that make you a criminal also when you break the speed limit.

So it's 30 on Chesterfield Road? I can't recall seeing any signs saying the speed and the amount of people that overtake me when I am doing 30 has made me think it's 40 and therefore do that when I'm on there... Surely if there are no speed signs you can contest it?

Surely you do not need speed restriction signs every few yards, on a single carriageway road in a large city.Common sense should tell anyone that it would be 30mph If in doubt keep to 30mph and ignore the no brainers who come racing pass, and you have nothing to worry about.

Originally posted by Virus
So it's 30 on Chesterfield Road? I can't recall seeing any signs saying the speed and the amount of people that overtake me when I am doing 30 has made me think it's 40 and therefore do that when I'm on there... Surely if there are no speed signs you can contest it?

The speed limit is 30mph when there is street lighting EXCEPT where it is signed otherwise. I am surprised that anyone who drives doesn't know this.

Originally posted by bazjea
Surely you do not need speed restriction signs every few yards, on a single carriageway road in a large city.Common sense should tell anyone that it would be 30mph If in doubt keep to 30mph and ignore the no brainers who come racing pass, and you have nothing to worry about.

Not every few yards no... It is confusing though, I haven't seen anyone do 30 on that road which made me wonder, especially when you get some idiot driving really close to your bumper trying to get you to speed up...

People are impatient, I've decided!

Originally posted by KenH
The speed limit is 30mph when there is street lighting EXCEPT where it is signed otherwise. I am surprised that anyone who drives doesn't know this.

I do know this, but as I said above when people constantly overtake you it makes me wonder...

Originally posted by Virus
I do know this, but as I said above when people constantly overtake you it makes me wonder...

Then why did you say

Originally posted by Virus
Surely if there are no speed signs you can contest it?

Originally posted by KenH
Then why did you say

A bit of a brain fart... Was thinking about something else!

I am in no way condoning Speeding nor am I suggesting that it isn't important to keep your speed down when in a busy area. However sometimes even doing 30 past a school at kicking out time is dangerous. despite it being within the law. Nor am I angry because I have been caught speeding.

I want to draw attention to the fact that the police could do much more to keep the traffic moving. Have you ever been to Paris, its mad and busy but the police are very visible and stop people blocking junctions and thereby keep it moving.

Instead SYP in their lazy and arrogant disregard for the motoring public would rather direct the resource of the traffic policemen, to revenue making exercises with their camera which have absolutely no benefit to road safety.

Originally posted by Virus
So it's 30 on Chesterfield Road? I can't recall seeing any signs saying the speed and the amount of people that overtake me when I am doing 30 has made me think it's 40 and therefore do that when I'm on there... Surely if there are no speed signs you can contest it?

That is exactly what the police want you to think... If they catch NO people speeding they get NO funding for more of the ghastly traps.

I hate this mobile camera because its so well hidden behind tham bushes and there at daft times 10pm on a sunday night!
would rather them pull cars to get the uninsured off the road

Originally posted by KenH
I may be missing something but isn't the very best place for a camera where people suddenly decide to break the law having got to a stretch where they can start to speed. If that stretch of road is in a residential area, as this one is, then they may well have already saved some lives. If the original poster is suggesting that he gets frustrated in the busy traffic and then needs to speed when the road opens up, then I would suggest relaxation exercises or herbal tea. If that doesn't work then perhaps posting the licence back to the DVLA before someone is killed.

Ken,

I never said that I get frustrated, I do not want to speed, But some people might do. And who do you think is going to get killed ? Do you think I want that ? really ? I think you're the one that needs posting back somewhere for a lobotomy !

Originally posted by DancingDave
Ken,

I never said that I get frustrated, I do not want to speed, But some people might do. And who do you think is going to get killed ? Do you think I want that ? really ? I think you're the one that needs posting back somewhere for a lobotomy !

And I would like to add that the people who the police should be going after, the uninsured, the unlicesnsed, the drunk, the people who buy Sierras in pubs for 50 quid and don't tax, register, M O T or insure them. all these people who present a real danger to all of us. will not be detected by these cameras, and can carry on as before. Thats what I object to.

Originally posted by DancingDave
Instead SYP in their lazy and arrogant disregard for the motoring public..

You've obviously got a grudge with SYP about something. Gonna enlighten us?

This very regular speed trap is not on Chesterfield road but Meadowhead, opposite Morrisons Supermarket.

There are many problems with this road, and it is 30mph for good reason. Far from there being no children about. There are schools behind the Waggon and Horses garage and at meadowhead. The shops at the top have loads of green jumpered school pupils in every day. Who scamper across the road and refuse to use the subway.

Also the road is steep and can be quite slippy. Every few months a car demolishes one of the walls near the bottom of meadowhead just past the hairdressers on the left. The cars are going up the hill but they loose traction and carreer into the wall. These walls have been rebuilt many many times.

Going the other way I understand that the Abbey pub was damaged when a vehicle lost control and ploughed into it some years ago, after that the junction had some work done on it.

Another problem is the traffic light junction outside the entrance to morrisons. There is regular collisions between traffic turning right into morrisons and other traffic going down the hill. There was a serious accident of this nature a few months back which caused loads of discussion on the sheffield forum,
.Link to it here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=567452#post567452)
where a red jeep type vehicle was left on it's roof in the driveway

Another problem with the road is that many of the houses have garages and driveways with cars parked in front. Many of them have to reverse onto the road to get their car out. This would be reduculous with traffic whistling past at over 30mph

Originally posted by DancingDave
revenue making exercises with their camera which
So speed cameras belong to the police, do they?

Sure they're not all owned by the Safety Camera Partnership - completely a seperate entity to SYP?

Common misconception. Get your facts right before going on mindless prejudiced rants about the police in general.

I personally agree that there should be speed limits and they are there to be enforced (especially given the number of a'holes around in their suped up skips with lovely blue leds, etc)

BUT

I would like to gripe at the fact that the police are always around to catch speeding motorists BUT NEVER manage to catch a burglar! I have been burgled 4 times and the police dont even bother coming to the house. Usually they just ring up with a crime number for the insurance.

WHY!

(little rant, sorry)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by muddycoffee
[B]This very regular speed trap is not on Chesterfield road but Meadowhead, opposite Morrisons Supermarket.

There are many problems with this road,

And has the presence of this camera done anything to make the road safer ? did it stop the jeep from ending up on its roof ?

Originally posted by andywatton
So speed cameras belong to the police, do they?

Sure they're not all owned by the Safety Camera Partnership - completely a seperate entity to SYP?

Common misconception. Get your facts right before going on mindless prejudiced rants about the police in general.

It is operated by Police Officers, the very officers who could be doing something to help the awful traffic chaos. The "partnership" is a joint venture by the police and local council.

Originally posted by tazman
Would the sending out of a fleet of Police motorcyclists have moved the broken down buses which caused the majority of the traffic chaos last week any quicker.

No, the motorcyclists wouldn't have been able to lift the bus out of the way

As mentioned earlier, the traffic congestion soon comes about when one bus breaks down and that combined with the heavy current traffic flows and this councils traffic managment policies equals total mayhem.



Police motorcyclists could certainly have helped the traffic flow eg at Brook Hill by stopping traffic blocking the roundabout, allowing traffic to get up towards Broomhill / Crookes / Walkley etc and therefore getting traffic moving on Broad Lane / Glossop Road / West Street etc.

Originally posted by DancingDave
And I would like to add that the people who the police should be going after, the uninsured, the unlicesnsed, the drunk, the people who buy Sierras in pubs for 50 quid and don't tax, register, M O T or insure them. all these people who present a real danger to all of us. will not be detected by these cameras, and can carry on as before. Thats what I object to.

Ever thought of joining the police?

Originally posted by DancingDave
It is operated by Police Officers, the very officers who could be doing something to help the awful traffic chaos. The "partnership" is a joint venture by the police and local council.

Andy was making the point that the police don't receive any revenue from the cameras. Read carefully.

Originally posted by Clairy
I would like to gripe at the fact that the police are always around to catch speeding motorists BUT NEVER manage to catch a burglar! I have been burgled 4 times and the police dont even bother coming to the house. Usually they just ring up with a crime number for the insurance.


Are you suggesting that if the police did come to your house, they could guarantee that they'd catch the perpetrator?

Originally posted by muddycoffee
This very regular speed trap is not on Chesterfield road but Meadowhead, opposite Morrisons Supermarket.


I lived on that stretch of road for over a decade, long before there was a supermarket, and have to agree on how dangerous a road it is.

This is my first post here, and one that is unlikely to win me many friends, but I'm here to post my opinions, not kiss butt.

After spending 13 years trying to pull out onto that road every morning, with idiots speeding up the hill from the Abbey pub bend, I can only welcome the police cameras. Those of you that didn't realise that it was a 30mph speed limit ought to think about surrendering your licenses, as you're obviously not safe to be on the roads if you don't have even a basic knowledge of the highway code.

The traffic lights outside Morrisons (Safeways) have been a Godsend to us, slowing down the speeding idiots coming down the road, and allowing us to pull out safely. The lights may have an unusual timing sequence, but as you should all know, green does not mean GO, but GO IF IT IS SAFE TO DO SO. You can hardly blame the traffic lights if someone decides to turn across oncoming traffic. And besides, there is a sign, at least 2 feet square, warning motorists of this very situation. If you can't see that, you shouldn't be allowed on the roads IMO!


The message is clear - if you are a responsible motorist that sticks to the speed limits, you have nothing to 'fear' from speed cameras, but everything to gain.

If you want to exceed the speed limit, then tough, you deserve all you get.

Originally posted by Herbaliser
Are you suggesting that if the police did come to your house, they could guarantee that they'd catch the perpetrator?

I doubt that that was the point he was trying to make. Proberbly was more likely that they would have more of a chance of catching a burgular if they wasn't sat pointing a laser a motoring Joe Public :rolleyes:

Welcome to the forum Paintguy :thumbsup:

Excellent first post. Well argued case. I'm a regular user of this road, and you've persuaded me that the 30 limit is the safer limit.

Red

Originally posted by claycraft
I doubt that that was the point he was trying to make. Proberbly was more likely that they would have more of a chance of catching a burgular if they wasn't sat pointing a laser a motoring Joe Public :rolleyes:

You miss the point. There seems to be a common misconception that if the police would leave poor motorists alone then they could be out catching real criminals. If the police took this misinformed advice, then what would happen when road deaths shot up because all resources were concentrated on catching burglars?

The only way to guarantee to catch all burglars (for example) would be if we all agreed to pay all our wages towards funding the police to investigate each burglary until the case was solved. It's not a case of redirecting resources. There just isn't the money. I for one would rather lose some property (and be compensated through insurance) than contribute towards a police force that was expected to solve every crime.

If only the police force could sit by the side of the road all day waiting for burglars to pass...

:rolleyes: right back at you.

hi
i once saw an accident just past abbey lane on chesterfield road,just turned 5.00 am,i was calling a the lateshopper for some stuff for work when this car came up the main road like a rocket,just as the road bends to the left,he lost traction,spun in a circle to the left and hit a garden wall,luckily a police car with two bobbies was passing at the time,so i presume they helped him out of the car,i don't know what happened after that as i set off for work then.

i can only presume he thought it was safe at that time in a morning to rip it up, but the roads were wet and he wasn't as good as he thought (at driving).

regarding the speed limit in built up areas being 30mph,i believe there are some roads that have been dropped to a speed limit of 20mph,although i can't ever remember using any with this speed limit imposed,i think they are off abbydale road.

regards,john.

Originally posted by Herbaliser
You miss the point. There seems to be a common misconception that if the police would leave poor motorists alone then they could be out catching real criminals. If the police took this misinformed advice, then what would happen when road deaths shot up because all resources were concentrated on catching burglars?

The only way to guarantee to catch all burglars (for example) would be if we all agreed to pay all our wages towards funding the police to investigate each burglary until the case was solved. It's not a case of redirecting resources. There just isn't the money. I for one would rather lose some property (and be compensated through insurance) than contribute towards a police force that was expected to solve every crime.

If only the police force could sit by the side of the road all day waiting for burglars to pass...

:rolleyes: right back at you.

Sir, I did not miss the point.
I read Clairy's post (and excuse me for being presumptious) as being a little tongue in cheek whilst having a "little Rant", for which he/she apologised.

Depending on where you wish to obtain your information, road deaths have risen, and continue to rise, even after large sums of money have been used to aquire speed detection equipment.

Whilst the Safety Partnership Vehicles are manned by members of our Police Forces ( on overtime? ) it is sometimes a hard pill to swallow when you hear of other crimes being unattended by an Officer in person as they claim to be short on manpower.

Yes SOME "fixed" cameras are well positioned and are worth the expense.

I personally however, would like to see more traffic/beat coppers on our streets.

An Officer operating a speed camera will catch you breaking the limit.

A Traffic Cop will catch you breaking the limit.

Is it not also the case that this same Officer can stop drink drivers (another rising crime), uninsured drivers, bad/dangerous driving.
This Officer can also be sent to other crimes: Burglaries, muggings, rapes, fights etc as they occur.
This same Officer can use his/her discretion if you are a couple of mph over the limit.

If this was Clairy's point then I heartly agree.
If it wasn't then it's certainly mine.

:rolleyes: 'av it!

This site has some clever ideas about driving (http://www.amasci.com/amateur/traffic/trafexp.html)

Originally posted by claycraft
I personally however, would like to see more traffic/beat coppers on our streets.

You'll have to pay more tax then. You can't just take a traffic officer away from their duty to investigate burglaries. A traffic officer is a standard police officer; officers who investigate burglaries (going beyond just taking details) are detectives and as such have received specialist training. Details of a burglary can be obtained over the phone just as well as in person- sending a traffic officer to a burlgary report would be of no benefit.

Originally posted by claycraft
Is it not also the case that this same Officer can stop drink drivers (another rising crime), uninsured drivers, bad/dangerous driving.
This Officer can also be sent to other crimes: Burglaries, muggings, rapes, fights etc as they occur.


This is not true. Officers who monitor road safety work for the road policing group. Officers who attend burglaries, muggings, rapes, fights, etc do not work for the road safety group. the two are not interchangeable. Imagine if at the behest of the public, traffic officers were sent to take details of burglaries, all hell would break loose when there were no officers to attend a road collision.

Believe it or not, the police have enough experience of the job to allocate resources as and where appropriate. Just because some officers are allocated to traffic duties does not mean there are insufficient resources to deal with other crimes.

If Clairy's point was that resources should be directed wherever the general public perceive there to be a need, then the point is a badly misinformed one. As is yours. I'd rather have a police service managed by experts rather than the general public.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: (3-2)

Well I havn't got time to read all of this but i feel the need to stick my thoughts in.

They know very well there is a much better chance of catching some unsupecting motorist if they put that damn camera there in the dark. I noticed ( think it was last night ) they didn't even bother putting the camera warning sign up. Surely that's proof enough they are out to fleece us and not reduce speed or accidents?

Sorry but no one will be able to change my view on this! Speed cameras a there soley to generate money, it's unfortunate that the motorist also has to suffer 3 points for maybe slipping over the speed limit by 3 or 4 mph. Hardly worth branding someone a criminal is it? :suspect:

I got caught twice last year, ridiculous circumstances which thinking back i should have refused to accept the points. Fines don't deter me from speeding. £60 isn't going to cripple anyone that runs a car......

Do i sound arrogant?... well, aint one of your Politically correct brigade, far from it and I wont suck peoples ass to gain popularity. It is as it is!! :)

Originally posted by CELCAD
Well I havn't got time to read all of this but i feel the need to stick my thoughts in.

They know very well there is a much better chance of catching some unsupecting motorist if they put that damn camera there in the dark. I noticed ( think it was last night ) they didn't even bother putting the camera warning sign up. Surely that's proof enough they are out to fleece us and not reduce speed or accidents?

Sorry but no one will be able to change my view on this! Speed cameras a there soley to generate money, it's unfortunate that the motorist also has to suffer 3 points for maybe slipping over the speed limit by 3 or 4 mph. Hardly worth branding someone a criminal is it? :suspect:

I got caught twice last year, ridiculous circumstances which thinking back i should have refused to accept the points. Fines don't deter me from speeding. £60 isn't going to cripple anyone that runs a car......

Do i sound arrogant?... well, aint one of your Politically correct brigade, far from it and I wont suck peoples ass to gain popularity. It is as it is!! :)

Well said that man :thumbsup:

Originally posted by CELCAD
I noticed ( think it was last night ) they didn't even bother putting the camera warning sign up. Surely that's proof enough they are out to fleece us and not reduce speed or accidents?

Sorry but no one will be able to change my view on this! Speed cameras a there soley to generate money, it's unfortunate that the motorist also has to suffer 3 points for maybe slipping over the speed limit by 3 or 4 mph. Hardly worth branding someone a criminal is it? :suspect:

I got caught twice last year, ridiculous circumstances which thinking back i should have refused to accept the points. Fines don't deter me from speeding. £60 isn't going to cripple anyone that runs a car......



I'm tickled by your suggestion that you 'should have refused to accept the points'! How exactly would you have done that? I wasn't aware that the issuing of points is in effect, an 'offer to treat' and that it is up to the consumer to accept the magistrate's offer of penalty points, or not. What a bizarre (but amusing) concept of yours!

If a general sense of law-abidingness doesn't stop you speeding, nor a sense of social caution, nor fines, then I'm inclined to suspect that a period of time with your freedom severely restricted would do you good. A couple of months inside would a) keep you out of our way and b) remind you that you live in a society and have to conform to the rules of that society.

What is it about you that makes you and cloudy bay think you're in some way special, and should be permitted to drive at whatever speed you choose on our roads?

Originally posted by CELCAD
Well I havn't got time to read all of this but i feel the need to stick my thoughts in...Sorry but no one will be able to change my view on this! Speed cameras a there soley to generate money.

No-one will be able to change your view if you don't read the posts.

Isn't the evidence that indicates speed cameras reduce the number of road deaths at that site is sufficient to convince you that it's more than a money making venture?

Originally posted by CELCAD
Fines don't deter me from speeding. £60 isn't going to cripple anyone that runs a car......

Get your head out of your back passage. How many times do fools like you have to be told? Speed cameras are there to save lives, not to generate money. Maybe it'll take an injury or worse to someone close to you before you'll stop being so ignorant. :loopy:


(note: I've been fined for speeding twice, and took my punishment like a man instead of whinging about how unfair speed cameras are.)

Always with the speed camera debates. Oh my god change the record

You'd be better off ignoring the threads that don't interest you. Why trivialise a serious debate? Just because it's been discussed before doesn't mean it can't be discussed again.

Originally posted by Herbaliser
You'd be better off ignoring the threads that don't interest you. Why trivialise a serious debate? Just because it's been discussed before doesn't mean it can't be discussed again.

Search button?

Originally posted by jackthedog
Search button?

That could apply to almost any thread on the site.

Have you anything constructive to add?

Will you be visiting Roger's thread any time soon?

Well well well, no surprise the tree huggers came out. Just didn't expect it so soon.... oh well, here we go then.

Refusing to accept the points..... hmm, now it's obvious to me, and I reckon most people that i meant the charge. You know nothing about the circumstances, you're hardly in a position to be making assumptions are you? :suspect:

moving on.....

Get your head out of your back passage. How many times do fools like you have to be told? Speed cameras are there to save lives, not to generate money. Maybe it'll take an injury or worse to someone close to you before you'll stop being so ignorant.

really? thats why there is currently an inquiry underway into weather speed cameras do actually save lifes... or not. Don't quote me on this but i think 500 planned speed camera installations have been halted until the report is complete. Kinda makes your comment invalid doesn't it?

What is it about you that makes you and cloudy bay think you're in some way special, and should be permitted to drive at whatever speed you choose on our roads?

I don't recall stating that I think I can speed wherever I like :confused:


Finally, to the speed camera lovers, (and tree huggers) can you honestly say you have never driven over the speed limit? I seriously doubt it!!!

If you don't like my views or want to hear my thoughts, ignore them.. simple really!

Case dismissed... Next!

Originally posted by KenH
The speed limit is 30mph when there is street lighting EXCEPT where it is signed otherwise. I am surprised that anyone who drives doesn't know this.

Not that i like to admit this - but for the first time i have to agree with KenH

Sorry!!

Originally posted by CELCAD
Well well well, no surprise the tree huggers came out. Just didn't expect it so soon.... oh well, here we go then.

Refusing to accept the points..... hmm, now it's obvious to me, and I reckon most people that i meant the charge. You know nothing about the circumstances, you're hardly in a position to be making assumptions are you? :suspect:

moving on.....



really? thats why there is currently an inquiry underway into weather speed cameras do actually save lifes... or not. Don't quote me on this but i think 500 planned speed camera installations have been halted until the report is complete. Kinda makes your comment invalid doesn't it?



I don't recall stating that I think I can speed wherever I like :confused:


Finally, to the speed camera lovers, (and tree huggers) can you honestly say you have never driven over the speed limit? I seriously doubt it!!!

If you don't like my views or want to hear my thoughts, ignore them.. simple really!

Case dismissed... Next!

Arrogant little so-and-so, ain't cha?

Ok, so you meant to say that you should have refused to accept the charge (erm, both of them?) that you were speeding. Even tho you've already said that you were. 'Ridiculous circumstances', huh? Like, the police daring to attempt to check your driving at speeds in excess of the speed limit? How ridiculous!

More points from your post - I doubt many motorists will have been given three points for driving '3 or 4 mph' over the speed limit. There's a 10% tolerance given anyway before anyone would bother to even think about prosecuting you. So, don't make out that you just 'slipped' over the limit by a minute amount. You were, by your own admission, speeding.

Re fines not detering you from speeding. What will, pray? Or will nothing deter you and you intend to go your own sweet way at the speed that you choose? (Seeing as you've made it pretty clear that you do already I'm surprised that in the above post you seem to be backtracking.)

Oh and, to quote, "If you don't like my views or want to hear my thoughts, ignore them.. simple really! Case dismissed... Next!"



:P

Originally posted by CELCAD
Finally, to the speed camera lovers, (and tree huggers) can you honestly say you have never driven over the speed limit? I seriously doubt it!!!

If that's aimed at me, then no, I can't say that. Read the posts- I said I've been fined twice, accepted that I broke the law and am now more careful to watch my speed. If that means the chances of having a fatal injury on my conscience are reduced, then I'm grateful for the fines.

Do you really not understand the (completely well-intentioned) logic behind the use of speed cameras?

Originally posted by Herbaliser
If that's aimed at me, then no, I can't say that. Read the posts- I said I've been fined twice, accepted that I broke the law and am now more careful to watch my speed. If that means the chances of having a fatal injury on my conscience are reduced, then I'm grateful for the fines.



Me too. I do drive much slower now since getting caught. I attempt to drive according to the speed limits rather than my opinion of the road conditions (the dual carriageway along the ringroad going towards Meadowhead, hullo? 40 mph and not a driveway or a turning or a house or a child for the whole stretch of it....... Feels like you're taking the mick crawling along at that speed).

I got fed up of the stress of constantly watching out for fixed cameras and mobile cameras and cops with speed gun thingies and cops in cars and vans with their doors open (Meadowhead area in particular) around every corner. One day I twigged that the easy and smart way to de-stress the driving experience was to ahem, drive lawfully.

Y'know what? I bet it takes me no longer to get anywhere.

LOL!! :heyhey:

Nothing like lighting the blue touch paper and standing back.

There aint really much point in saying anything else about this.

We'll only end up going round in circles. I have my views, which won't be changed and you have yours that need to be changed!! :P

Over and out... literally!

Originally posted by CELCAD
LOL!! :heyhey:

Nothing like lighting the blue touch paper and standing back.

There aint really much point in saying anything else about this.

We'll only end up going round in circles. I have my views, which won't be changed and you have yours that need to be changed!! :P

Over and out... literally!

Haha, cool! :thumbsup:

Yep, well played all. Time for my weekend cruise. :D

Originally posted by Herbaliser
Yep, well played all. Time for my weekend cruise. :D

What a lovely end to a perfect evening. Oh that all disputes on the Sheffield Forum ended so amicably!

:P

Just thought I’d share my total fascination with DancingDave’s ability to have a full aerial view of Sheffield where there are traffic problems and identify which police motorcycles have been deployed and to where. It’s a shame that last week this magic gift of his wasn’t working correctly as a multitude of traffic officers in various vehicles were deployed and managed to reduce the congestion caused by a broken down bus. I can only assume DancingDave’s disgust at South Yorkshire Police’s inability to prevent public transport breakdowns.

As for the uphill stretch of Chesterfield Road (a known high fatality area) I’ll let you into a little secret, don’t speed and you won’t be effected. It’s incredible, it’s like it’s designed to make you a better and safer driver, how terribly thoughtless of the police.

To top it all off, DancingDave can’t stretch his little mind to all of the other reasons why pedestrian’s could be in the road … an accidental fall, a misguided blind pedestrian, a young child running to chase his balloon. Not to mention the number of fatalities caused by speeding drivers colliding with an established accident and killing the ambulance and police officers attending.

Though I’m sure the Police are grateful for your reminder ‘they’re here to serve’ if they could respond to your message I’m sure they’d be wondering what you’ve done to help the community this week? Have you attended four shootings on four successive days and arrested criminals who were a threat to the public and police? Have you worked round the clock to help a mother find her child? Have you attended a road traffic accident and watched the family of a trapped victim say goodbye to him because he’s been told by the ambulance officers that he’ll most likely bleed to death when they cut him out. Perhaps you were the speeding driver that caused it by rushing home to post a message judging a public service that you obviously know nothing about.

Originally posted by Herbaliser
You'll have to pay more tax then. You can't just take a traffic officer away from their duty to investigate burglaries. A traffic officer is a standard police officer; officers who investigate burglaries (going beyond just taking details) are detectives and as such have received specialist training. Details of a burglary can be obtained over the phone just as well as in person- sending a traffic officer to a burlgary report would be of no benefit.



This is not true. Officers who monitor road safety work for the road policing group. Officers who attend burglaries, muggings, rapes, fights, etc do not work for the road safety group. the two are not interchangeable. Imagine if at the behest of the public, traffic officers were sent to take details of burglaries, all hell would break loose when there were no officers to attend a road collision.

Believe it or not, the police have enough experience of the job to allocate resources as and where appropriate. Just because some officers are allocated to traffic duties does not mean there are insufficient resources to deal with other crimes.

If Clairy's point was that resources should be directed wherever the general public perceive there to be a need, then the point is a badly misinformed one. As is yours. I'd rather have a police service managed by experts rather than the general public.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: (3-2)

If you read my post a little closer you will note that I said "as the crime OCCURS", not after.
I was in no way suggesting that Traffic Police be sent simply to take details post incident.
As such, are you suggesting that if a Traffic cop was sat outside the premises of a burgulary in progress, he would not be asked to attend?
I think not.
However, if this is the case then it is in my opinion Bureaucracy gon barmy!
I suggested that the increasing resources spent on the Camera Partnerships would in my view, be better invested in more Traffic/beat cops.

On a final note, after reading Sssslinky's final paragraph..........could a mobile speed camera do that????
If your talking £ for £, give me human interaction any day.
More coppers, less cameras.

Come on dude, we finished this discussion before the weekend. Time to chill and reflect. :cool:

Originally posted by claycraft

I suggested that the increasing resources spent on the Camera Partnerships would in my view, be better invested in more Traffic/beat cops.


I'm sure figures and accounts are available, but I would be amazed if the Safety Camera Partnership is not self financing. So if they reduced activity there would not be more money available to invest elsewhere.

Originally posted by claycraft
I suggested that the increasing resources spent on the Camera Partnerships would in my view, be better invested in more Traffic/beat cops.



Funding for the two organisations is not interchangeable.

I couldn't resist.

Automatic speed cameras send out the wrong message.

It does not automatically make you a safe driver just because you drive below the speed limit. An important element of safe driving is judging the appropriate speed for the prevailing conditions. Speed cameras take away that responsibility from the driver and are breeding a generation of drivers with their eyes flickering nervously towards the speedometer when they should be watching the road.

There are plenty of cases where driving at the speed limit is too fast, even if it is legal, such as a typical Sheffield side street at school leaving time, or a fogbound motorway, or a sharp bend on a twisty country road. There are plenty more cases where it is perfectly safe to exceed the posted limit.

We should be encouraging good driving practices and personal responsibility, not mindlessly enforcing arbritary speed limits. In my view that means several currently ignored issues should be addressed.

- Better driver training.
- Regular re-testing of drivers.
- Getting uninsured and illegal drivers off the road.
- Penalising drivers for dangerous and careless driving, of which speeding may or may not be a factor.
- Proper traffic patrols, not robotic enforcement.

Originally posted by MichaelJP
Automatic speed cameras send out the wrong message.

It does not automatically make you a safe driver just because you drive below the speed limit. An important element of safe driving is judging the appropriate speed for the prevailing conditions. Speed cameras take away that responsibility from the driver and are breeding a generation of drivers with their eyes flickering nervously towards the speedometer when they should be watching the road.

There are plenty of cases where driving at the speed limit is too fast, even if it is legal, such as a typical Sheffield side street at school leaving time, or a fogbound motorway, or a sharp bend on a twisty country road. There are plenty more cases where it is perfectly safe to exceed the posted limit.

We should be encouraging good driving practices and personal responsibility, not mindlessly enforcing arbritary speed limits. In my view that means several currently ignored issues should be addressed.

- Better driver training.
- Regular re-testing of drivers.
- Getting uninsured and illegal drivers off the road.
- Penalising drivers for dangerous and careless driving, of which speeding may or may not be a factor.
- Proper traffic patrols, not robotic enforcement.

Totally agree:nod::clap:

This could be worth a look:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/

Originally posted by Herbaliser
Come on dude, we finished this discussion before the weekend. Time to chill and reflect. :cool:

Ok, I'm sorry.:blush:
It's just that I've been out doin' criminal things and dodging the cameras :wink::lol::wave:

Originally posted by DancingDave
I am in no way condoning Speeding nor am I suggesting that it isn't important to keep your speed down when in a busy area. However sometimes even doing 30 past a school at kicking out time is dangerous. despite it being within the law. Nor am I angry because I have been caught speeding.

I want to draw attention to the fact that the police could do much more to keep the traffic moving. Have you ever been to Paris, its mad and busy but the police are very visible and stop people blocking junctions and thereby keep it moving.

Instead SYP in their lazy and arrogant disregard for the motoring public would rather direct the resource of the traffic policemen, to revenue making exercises with their camera which have absolutely no benefit to road safety.

Quite, some facts re:speeding help to put the camera's into perspective.

There is far too much emphasis on speed in general, and speed is often mistakenly quoted as the cause of an accident when it clearly wasn't. According to the DfT, speed is only a "contributory" factor in 12.5% of accidents, of which 30% happened below the posted speed limit. The "contributory" bit is because accidents such as rear end shunts (and many others) are also included as a speed related accident. The logic behind this is if you weren't going too fast, you would have been able to stop, regardless of the speed, even at 1mph. Hence speed related accident! The fact that the person may be drunk or just plain staring into space is discounted, or tallied elsewhere. The reality is that speeding is a minor road problem, far outweighed by dangerous driving & careless driving, both of which cannot be detected by a camera, and ofcourse, don't provide a nice fat cheque.

If you check the total number of deaths on UK roads you will see they have remained essentially static over the last 10 years (@3500), despite the propoganda about speeding. The reason, police now rely on camera's to such an extent, that they no longer have dedicated traffic officers, dangerous or careless drivers simply don't get caught anymore (until they kill someone).

Camera's are an easy bust for police, requiring minimal paperwork and a cash incentive, the best bit is that most people will also pay up! The vast majority of people they catch are otherwise law abiding and have great respect for the police, that is, until they've been busted doing 36 in a 30 at 2am on a deserted road (perfectly safely despite the speed), at which point they tend to adopt an "Us" and "Them" policy, since they're now a card carrying ciminal. Also, the police have been pretty good at letting their own officers off speeding charges of late.

All this has had the effect of eroding trust and confidence in the police, to the extent that people just don't phone them and report crime or give tip-offs anymore. The police cannot do their job properly because camera's have (to a large extent) alienated the general public.

If you ask the local Safety Camera Partnership how many lives have been directly saved by cameras you will soon see they have absolutely no statistical data to back up their claims!

With regard to the camera specifically mentioned in this thread, I've seen it, hiding behind the bushes behind the dip of the hill, very sly, which leads me to believe it's a revenue generator.. the road is as wide as a runway! ;) The police station is at the bottom of the hill, I have often followed police cars going down the hill at 40-45mph when I'm on my way home, late at night.

If you don't believe the camera's are a revenue generator, stand down the road from one with a warning sign and see how long before you're arrested for obstructing the police.

From my point of view, I don't believe the camera's work at all, and strict speed limits that don't take account of the conditions are rather silly. Scrap the cameras, scrap the propoganda, get the driving test standard upped (I'm happy to re-take if I must) and get more traffic cops back onto the streets!

I thought this post was going to be about the A61 Halifax road. Those nice people at the safety camera partnership regularly set up a mobile camera in the short 30mph section at the barnsley end of the dual carriageway just before you go into the 40 then 60mph sections as you leave the built up area. Strangers have no idea what the speed limit is on this section of road especially if you turn onto it rather than following it when you can if you look carefully see the faded speed limit signs hiding in the trees at the side of the road.

Arghh the speed trap that is sooo readily mentioned on here may have caught me tonight!!!

I came out of Morrison's Car Park at around 7.20pm and felt a ''flash'' light up in the car....I can only assume the well known speed trap at Meadowhead...

I looked at my speedo and it said 36MPH, I think it is actually only 30MPH along the A61, this was the uphill stretch just before the roundabout at the Norton Pub!!

Grrrrrr.....I will let you know if I receive the 'expected' mail....be warned....the police are out there funding their Xmas Do's!!

:(

I don't think many people are considering the amount of school children crossing that stretch of road returning from meadowhead school. I often have to almost stop for huge crowds of kids all seemingly unaware of the danger they put themselves in. They raarely use the crossings.

More cameras the better. The speed limit is there for a reason why should you be allowed to break it?

I'm not 150% sure of this but I don't think that the police actually get a penny from speeding fines. I think it goes to the Speed Camera Partnership to pay for there existence and for new cameras etc. (Developing all that film must cost a fortune at Boots)