View Full Version : Under 16 pass for bus fares in Sheffield


dieselbabe
23-11-2005, 17:45
Right has anyone who got kids that are under 16 and not got a bus pass for them to pay child fare ever get asked " how old is your child".

I got a 10 year old and on the bus this evening and it has happend befor as well, we got asked this question.One bus would not let us on unless we had a pass for her even tho she still had on her primary school uniform on and does not look over 13 never mind 16.We had a few passengers that stuck up for us and tryed to tell the driver she did not look over 16 but it did not work.so say thanks if you was one of them on the 97 bus today.

So i went down to the interchange to get her a pass wile we was in town to ask how we get one,and was told she does not need one till she starts secondary school.When i told them that ive had problem befor all i got was "well to me she does not look the age to pay full fare".I agree with this one but that does not solve my problem of ingnorant bus drivers that think she is over 16. How stupid are they these bus drivers,do they get more wages or something of how many full fares they get in a day/week.All they was botherd about was incase i get charged 35 for haveing a wrong ticket for her :loopy:.

dibsy
23-11-2005, 18:17
I got asked the same thing by a bus driver a year ago when my daughter was 10 as well, luckily he still let us on the bus but now my daughter is in secondary school she has to have a bus pass.

joffandanmum
23-11-2005, 18:29
i have had the same problem.
but they get a bus pass at 11 when they go to secondary school. so he probably thought she was 11 not 16.
11 to 16 they are entitled to a discounted fare or post 16 if they can prove they are in full time education.

however asking how old your child is when you have asked for a kids fare is tant amount to calling you a liar. there are some great drivers but some real jobsworths

tango2
23-11-2005, 19:38
This point has been raised before and I hope this will clarify the issue.

The 40p fare pass has nothing to do with First,It is a rule set down by SYPTE as it is one of their concession fares,they have stipulated to first NO PASS FULL FARE same goes for OAPs and Mobility as well as Blind Passes.

Drivers are not being ignorant when asking for the pass,they are simply carrying out the instructions that have been laid down in relation to the passes.

Any child between 11 and 16 MUST have a valid pass to qualify for the reduced fare,if not then the full adult fare must be paid.

The SYPTE will always pass the problem on to First when in fact its not even a First pass and not First Rules.

dieselbabe
23-11-2005, 19:46
Originally posted by tango2
This point has been raised before and I hope this will clarify the issue.

The 40p fare pass has nothing to do with First,It is a rule set down by SYPTE as it is one of their concession fares,they have stipulated to first NO PASS FULL FARE same goes for OAPs and Mobility as well as Blind Passes.

Drivers are not being ignorant when asking for the pass,they are simply carrying out the instructions that have been laid down in relation to the passes.

Any child between 11 and 16 MUST have a valid pass to qualify for the reduced fare,if not then the full adult fare must be paid.

The SYPTE will always pass the problem on to First when in fact its not even a First pass and not First Rules.


I do understand this as i too have a disabled pass.But my point was why ask for prof of her age when one she does not look the age.two he wont even let her on even with her primary school uniform with a school bag that both states the school logo and name of the school that we showed the driver. i understand if she did not have a pass and was wearing a secondry school uniform on with the name stated.it just get me mad that i seen much older looking kids with no uniform on and no pass and get on the bus with no problems.

Joanna
23-11-2005, 19:49
Would it hep if your child carried a passport or other form of ID to prove her age?

dieselbabe
23-11-2005, 19:57
Originally posted by Joanna
Would it hep if your child carried a passport or other form of ID to prove her age?


My partner ask me this.But to be honest i wont take any passport out with me just for this and all the time to go out it is to risky,same with birth certificate if she lost it or my self wile out and got picked up anything can happen.I was told if it happend again to pay full fare then prove to transport place with birth details and can have a refund.be ok if they is something eles that they can bring out for kids to prove age insted of waiting till secondry school time.

tango2
23-11-2005, 20:02
Originally posted by dieselbabe
I do understand this as i too have a disabled pass.But my point was why ask for prof of her age when one she does not look the age.two he wont even let her on even with her primary school uniform with a school bag that both states the school logo and name of the school that we showed the driver. i understand if she did not have a pass and was wearing a secondry school uniform on with the name stated.it just get me mad that i seen much older looking kids with no uniform on and no pass and get on the bus with no problems.

I see your point,however the way the current system works it fails to allow for driver discression.

I myself am a little too liberal with the driver discression and no doubt one day it will be my downfall.

However I would never refuse a child entry to the bus (tango2 see his bus driving days slipping away before him) the problem with older kids is that it depends on what degree of grief you want as to how you react.

You will find that some routes are worse than others in the way of rule enforcment,the way I see it is,its only a job (P45 in post) and I doi it to the best of my ablity if I think I can help a few people on the way then I will do.

Sadly there are (speaking as a driver) some right knobheads out there.

Also I would be very warey of what the Customer services at the interchange tell you,,these are the same ones that told passengers on the night of the gridlock "it was caused by First having staff problems" needless to say I got the verbals big style.

Joanna
23-11-2005, 20:03
I can undertsand that; you don't really want to lose a passport - it's a rather difficult situation, I know some bus companies issue their own pases, those who catch 'school' busses as oppose to public transport. I hope you find a solution, maybe ask the school is they can intervene in anyway?

Andy C
23-11-2005, 20:19
Cannot understand why the SYPTE cannot issue a pass though, it would solve the whole problem.

tango2
23-11-2005, 20:25
Originally posted by Andy C
Cannot understand why the SYPTE cannot issue a pass though, it would solve the whole problem.

Exactly,but that would be way too simple.

irenewilde
23-11-2005, 22:12
Originally posted by joffandanmum

however asking how old your child is when you have asked for a kids fare is tant amount to calling you a liar. there are some great drivers but some real jobsworths

Unfortunately, there are people out there who have been known to tell a lie or two n order to get something for nothing or cheaper. And a driver can't tell who's telling the truth and who isn't.

mr chris
23-11-2005, 22:44
I had to get a "under 16 pass" as they were known back then (before the days of the mega travel card... which hasn't changed since the mid 90s!) when I was 11. This was before they were compulsary so it was quite a shock when I was asked for a pass and didn't have one!

I had to plead with the driver who seemed to think that the amount of christmas shopping I'd just done meant I was over 16 and could obviously afford the fare as it was for adults. Not the 10p fare I would have paid as a child.

Looks like not a lot has changed... *sigh*

matt1889
24-11-2005, 10:34
This happens quite frequently and to be honest all-though it seems quite stupid, you can't pin it down to the driver as his / her fault!

Drivers are just doing their job, they get moderated as well to make sure they are following rules / regulations.

But at the same time no-one should have to carry their Passport etc, just to get access on a bus!

I think, First mainline need to produce a document similar to a 11-16 pass, maybe different colour code?

This would solve the problem!

fox20thc
24-11-2005, 10:36
Ok I have a query... my son is still at primary school but will be 11 at christmas. Does he need a pass even though he is at primary?

matt1889
24-11-2005, 10:41
Details are on the link below, and i can tell you, NO not until secondary school!

But please read!

http://www.sypte.co.uk/tickets/mega.html

Matt

Alex C.
24-11-2005, 14:41
Originally posted by matt1889
This happens quite frequently and to be honest all-though it seems quite stupid, you can't pin it down to the driver as his / her fault!

Drivers are just doing their job, they get moderated as well to make sure they are following rules / regulations.

But at the same time no-one should have to carry their Passport etc, just to get access on a bus!

I think, First mainline need to produce a document similar to a 11-16 pass, maybe different colour code?

This would solve the problem!

So you would need two passes?

The point of the megatravel card is to gain access to public transport in south yorkshire at subsidised rates.

to get it, you have to prove your age and that you are a resident in south yorkshire...

what would be easier/simpler is if you could get a pass from 9 onwards (say) and it was required once you were 11. They could always just add a stamp or something to say you were in secondary school.

I'd rather they did check passes, the number of times i've seen 'kids' who look 18 say they forgot their pass, and then get let on (to avoid the grief, makes sense) by the driver is unbelievable. I thought the 35 penalty fare and the inspectors would help, but I didn't notice any reduction in people doing this afterwards...

playman
24-11-2005, 15:02
yes all children of secondary school age need a pass, but when they issue one when you first apply at say age 11, this pass has to last you for at least 5 years, if it gets worn/damaged/lost etc... it then costs 5.00 for subsequent replacements.
What a rip off !!!!!!!

Alex C.
24-11-2005, 16:10
Not really a rip off... when you consider that you get a reduction in travel of potentially up to 1.80, pays for itself again within a few journeys. Most places either dont have these passes or have half fare ones.

edited to add: they should replace it free of charge (from what I remember) if its been stolen, you need to provide a crime reference number though. It may have changed.

WTAW
24-11-2005, 16:18
What happened to common sense? Like the original poster said her child had a primary school uniform on, you're not telling me that the driver did not know this as they nust get used to the uniforms of the local schools driving around as they do. My son turned 11 in September and although he in no way looks his age (he is very small for his age), I got him a pass in the half term holidays (Oct). I would advise anyone with a child turning 11 to get one as soon as they can. As for those with children not quite 11, all I can think of suggesting is photocopying their birth certificate and possibly a utility bill (with account numbers removed etc) to prove date of birth and that fact they live in sheffield and perhaps laminating them so that they can be produced if challenged about their age.

Scammy
24-11-2005, 20:07
does anyone know if they send the 16-18 2nd term pass to collage or to your house?

playman
24-11-2005, 21:13
as far as i know they are sent to college.

Scammy
24-11-2005, 21:17
thats abit annoin cause iam at placement the 1st weke bk after christmas

matt1889
25-11-2005, 10:25
But why are you all ready to s**g bus drivers off, for just doing their job?

Like you said, the idea of the pass in the first place is to let children aged 11-16 get subsidised fares, ok......, so once you have a pass, common sense says you keep it on you at all times.

Nearly every child carries a mobile phone these day and you won't find them without out it, so why does'nt this apply with bus passes?????

You complain about the cost of replacing lost / damaged passes, but lets be fair, if children looked after their passes and carried them like they do their mobile, then there would'nt be problem with lost / damaged passes would there?

Drivers:

Like stated earlier in the discussion, a bus driver just acts under orders, just like any other person, working in any other profession, and to s**g them off, just for doing their job is pathetic!

yelweb
05-12-2005, 21:05
i have a 10 year old daughter and she has a pass.I was fed up of drivers asking 4 a pass i went down to the interchange and they gave her 1 no probs.I would keep bugging them as kids look older than what they r these days :thumbsup:

rocketpig
05-12-2005, 21:10
Originally posted by dieselbabe
Right has anyone who got kids that are under 16 and not got a bus pass for them to pay child fare ever get asked " how old is your child".

I got a 10 year old and on the bus this evening and it has happend befor as well, we got asked this question.One bus would not let us on unless we had a pass for her even tho she still had on her primary school uniform on and does not look over 13 never mind 16.We had a few passengers that stuck up for us and tryed to tell the driver she did not look over 16 but it did not work.so say thanks if you was one of them on the 97 bus today.

So i went down to the interchange to get her a pass wile we was in town to ask how we get one,and was told she does not need one till she starts secondary school.When i told them that ive had problem befor all i got was "well to me she does not look the age to pay full fare".I agree with this one but that does not solve my problem of ingnorant bus drivers that think she is over 16. How stupid are they these bus drivers,do they get more wages or something of how many full fares they get in a day/week.All they was botherd about was incase i get charged 35 for haveing a wrong ticket for her :loopy:.

the term jobsworth springs to mind,...........let me guess, a first mainline bus? why can't be judge each case on its merits

Mathom
05-12-2005, 21:24
Isn't it simple logic that if, in order to get a reduced fare you need proof of entitlement to that fare, then you should have to show your pass? You wouldn't go after an NUS 10% reduction without an NUS card or a B&Q reduction without your pensioners' card so why should buses be different?

In the case of younger kids looking older then they all ought to be able to get a pass if necessary. But I get annoyed when you see teenagers thinking they have a 'right' to travel at a cheaper rate even if they don't have proof. Last week about ten 14 year old girls were getting on the bus and three had no passes. The driver decided to let them on anyway (obviously had enough with them) and then they stomped down the bus effing and jeffing about the driver having the nerve to ask them for passes? :confused:

rocketpig
05-12-2005, 21:30
Originally posted by Mathom
Isn't it simple logic that if, in order to get a reduced fare you need proof of entitlement to that fare, then you should have to show your pass? You wouldn't go after an NUS 10% reduction without an NUS card or a B&Q reduction without your pensioners' card so why should buses be different?



this kid was 9 and he was in his primary school uniform,.....therefore clearly not over 16!

when i go to a bar i don't need to show ID cos i clearly look over 18!!!!

If the driver is in any doubt then sure, ask for ID but come on the kid was 9,............why can't people just use their brain

oh, and you clearly haven't read the thread- its not simple logic- interchange told the parent kid didn't need a pass!

youwhatref
06-12-2005, 06:50
Alex C has this right in that the Megatravel pass is more about showing how old the child is. It is also a proof of residency within South Yorkshire.

Dieselbabe you should be able to get a Megatravel pass, if you've been challenged then i can see no problem at all. Not getting the pass until they are 11 is not set in stone, so can i clarify that you have been refused a Mega pass?? (sorry if i've missed it somewhere).

However i do agree that at thsi young age a driver shoudl apply a little more common sense

LellyBee
06-12-2005, 08:25
I recently had the same problem with my 9 year old son. The driver asked for his pass but I didn't have a clue what he meant. When he said for my son, I was gobsmacked and told the driver he was only 9!
I must have had a stroppy driver, he was convinced my son was 14, but I insisted he look at my son's face, anyone could see he younger than that, the drivers response "I'm not a mind-reader". So what do you do? Tell him no, he must need new glasses and risk getting evicted from the bus?
The trouble with passes is that you cannot get one if your child is not in secondary school. He's still at primary.
Someone suggested passes from 9 years up, the problem would still be the same, some drivers would say they didn't know what under 9 looked like, the same as free travel for up to 5 years old. You'd still get drivers saying they look older than 5.
I now make my son stand in front of the driver so they can get a good luck at his face and actually see that he is not trying to cadge a ride at a reduced rate.

dieselbabe
06-12-2005, 08:47
Originally posted by youwhatref
.

Dieselbabe you should be able to get a Megatravel pass, if you've been challenged then i can see no problem at all. Not getting the pass until they are 11 is not set in stone, so can i clarify that you have been refused a Mega pass?? (sorry if i've missed it somewhere).


Hi youwhatref.Yes i already ask if she can have a pass the day i went down to ask, but i was told because she not in secondary school they can not offer her one.They need prof (I WAS TOLD) of age and letter with her name address to say she lives in sheffield and also her secondary school name.It need to be stamped/signd by the school so she can get a pass.

Mathom
06-12-2005, 11:05
Originally posted by rocketpig
this kid was 9 and he was in his primary school uniform,.....therefore clearly not over 16!

when i go to a bar i don't need to show ID cos i clearly look over 18!!!!

If the driver is in any doubt then sure, ask for ID but come on the kid was 9,............why can't people just use their brain

oh, and you clearly haven't read the thread- its not simple logic- interchange told the parent kid didn't need a pass!

Yes it is that simple. Anyone over 11 and up to 16 years of age needs a pass. A child of 9 can quite easily look to be 11 (even in a primary school uniform, and bus drivers aren't issued with a i-spy book of Sheffield school uniforms, lets be fair), and so the driver challenged this. The rule is you can only have a concessionary fare from age 11 if you have a pass. A reduced fare for 11-16s is not called a 'concessionary fare' for nothing - it is a privilege and not a right. The problem here is not that the driver challenged the parent - (the driver may be under a warning for having been lenient previously for all we know) it is that SYPTE ought to issue passes to kids younger than 11 if they are requested. dieselbabe only needs to look on the SYPTE website to see that she's being fed a load of rubbish about the 'proof' needed for the pass (which is there to protect against the older kids getting one fraudulently, not to prevent younger ones from having one). To be honest I wish they would scrap the passes altogether as buses are more and more often held up with people arguing about the damn things. :rolleyes:

rocketpig
06-12-2005, 11:08
Originally posted by Mathom
Yes it is that simple. Anyone over 11 and up to 16 years of age needs a pass. A child of 9 can quite easily look to be 11 (even in a primary school uniform, and bus drivers aren't issued with a i-spy book of Sheffield school uniforms, lets be fair), and so the driver challenged this. The rule is you can only have a concessionary fare from age 11 if you have a pass. A reduced fare for 11-16s is not called a 'concessionary fare' for nothing - it is a privilege and not a right. The problem here is not that the driver challenged the parent - (the driver may be under a warning for having been lenient previously for all we know) it is that SYPTE ought to issue passes to kids younger than 11 if they are requested. dieselbabe only needs to look on the SYPTE website to see that she's being fed a load of rubbish about the 'proof' needed for the pass (which is there to protect against the older kids getting one fraudulently, not to prevent younger ones from having one). To be honest I wish they would scrap the passes altogether as buses are more and more often held up with people arguing about the damn things. :rolleyes:

this kid was 9 though,.......i don't beleive for a minute s/he looked anywhere near 16!! commen sence is all that is required

Mathom
06-12-2005, 11:19
rocketpig - I know, a 9 year old could not possibly look 16, but it's not the age of the 16 that's the problem, it's that they need a pass at 11. I know it seems weird requiring a pass at 11, but that's the way they do it at SYPTE - unless you have the card entitling you to the concession then you are an 'adult' passenger even though you're only 11.

I think that's the root of why so many teenagers get in a strop over being asked for their pass - they assume they have a *right* to a reduced fare but this is not the case in South Yorkshire.

fox20thc
06-12-2005, 11:21
Originally posted by Mathom
rocketpig - I know, a 9 year old could not possibly look 16, but it's not the age of the 16 that's the problem, it's that they need a pass at 11. I know it seems weird requiring a pass at 11, but that's the way they do it at SYPTE - unless you have the card entitling you to the concession then you are an 'adult' passenger even though you're only 11.

I think that's the root of why so many teenagers get in a strop over being asked for their pass - they assume they have a *right* to a reduced fare but this is not the case in South Yorkshire.

Well it should be. Until 18. Irrespective of status student/working.

Mathom
06-12-2005, 11:31
Originally posted by fox20thc
Well it should be. Until 18. Irrespective of status student/working.

I agree! But the rules are set by the authorities and its the bus drivers who get it in the neck - its no wonder so many of them are grumpy. On the one hand they have Blakey giving them warnings about letting people on, and on the other the passengers arguing the toss (and sometimes displaying violence as well as anger). Some kind of nationally recognised proof of age card would solve all this.

rocketpig
06-12-2005, 22:08
Originally posted by Mathom
rocketpig - I know, a 9 year old could not possibly look 16, but it's not the age of the 16 that's the problem, it's that they need a pass at 11. I know it seems weird requiring a pass at 11, but that's the way they do it at SYPTE - unless you have the card entitling you to the concession then you are an 'adult' passenger even though you're only 11.

I think that's the root of why so many teenagers get in a strop over being asked for their pass - they assume they have a *right* to a reduced fare but this is not the case in South Yorkshire.

but he was a 9 year old kid, in his primary school uniform, with his mum.......clearly not over 16! commen sence

what if the kid was on his own? would it be tough titty then?

MattTurner
07-12-2005, 10:10
On a slight tangent from this.

I'm originally from Kent (we can still buy return tickets on the bus there btw!!), you have to pay full adult fare when you turn 15 regardless of your status. :rant: