bit of fun, tyson aged 23 v ali 23 who,d win & why

tyson, he was simply an inhuman killing machine, Ali was a great boxer but almost too civilised for his own good.



:clap:

You have to be kidding, Tyson wouldn't have stood a round with Ali...

Originally posted by J-Blaze
You have to be kidding, Tyson wouldn't have stood a round with Ali...

Ali was a better boxer, but Tyson was an animal.... Would be an interesting fight.

Tyson for me. Although if he hadnt managed it in 2, Ali would have picked him off.

Frank Bruno
Err i don't understand the question

Ali - no doubt.
Would be an interesting fight thats for sure, but Ali would take it.

Tyson was a mugger and Ali was a brilliant boxer. Tyson would have won hands down. They guy was a pure muscle killing machine. Bye far IMO the best boxer who ever lived!

tyson.... no one could come close at his prime.. yep...defo a pure killing machine and could destroy anyone in 1 round.

Id have to go with Tyson on this one aswell. I also think he wasd the best boxer that ever lived.

It would have been interesting to see a poll on this.

Ali because he was too fast, too skill full and had too good a recovery power. Even if Mike decked Ali early on, he would've gotten up and prouduced the results late on. Ali was never knocked out! throughout his career and he fought some ferocious punches, including Foreman, Frazier and Liston amongst many. He always prevailed and retired only once during a contest (I think), that was against Larry Holmes.

Mike Tyson on the other hand was a great fighter and competitor. He was exceptional at an early age. Like Ali, Tyson lost his best years, but comparing his total career into consideration against Ali's, then I believe Ali would have won.

Originally posted by wayne72
Ali was never knocked out!
he never met mike tysons fist :hihi: and the way tyson used to steam in like a tank...you can only dodge a few times before he gets you.

god i miss seeing him fight :( he used to BE boxing... ive lost interest in heavyweight since it all went tits up

Originally posted by MTheo
tyson.... no one could come close at his prime.. yep...defo a pure killing machine and could destroy anyone in 1 round.

But he didn't, even at his best. Sometimes Mike Tyson can be overestimated. By all means he's definately one of the best of all time, probably 5th in my list behind Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Frazier.

Even though Tyson beat Holmes, Holmes was at the end of a successfull career. Holmes also shone for most of the round he was knocked out in. Imagine in his hey day, Holmes would've been able to produce that dancing on his toes, flicking out a stinging jab, for 15 rounds, not just half around.

Originally posted by MTheo
he never met mike tysons fist :hihi: and the way tyson used to steam in like a tank...you can only dodge a few times before he gets you.

god i miss seeing him fight :( he used to BE boxing... ive lost interest in heavyweight since it all went tits up

Holmes quoted "Tyson doesn't hit has hard as some guys, but he hits you fast, often and in the right places.".

I agree, I miss the buzz you get just from Tyson walking down to the ring. Whether he was facing credible opponents or cannon fodder, then there was always a great buzz. How many other fighters could carry this aura?

PS. I say "Cannon Fodder" because i'd neve regard anyone a "Bum", or any other word like that, who has the guts to get into a Boxing Ring and fight in the first place. But we gotta accept that some are superior to others.

Ali IMO.

He had incredible reach, and the ability to move fast staying out of Tyson's range whilst walloping him.

Tyson's venom means he gets my vote. That and the fact he is my all time favourite boxer!

I had a video (lost it now :() of about 10 of Tyson's early fights. The video only lasted an hour or so and most of that was taken up with introductions to the ring :hihi:

I am sad that he didn't stay on track and fight on for many more years :?

I 'think' i've found a new successor to Tyson's crown though. He's not a heavyweight but damn is he dangerous!
I think more people over here will sit up and watch him more once he destroys Joe Calzaghe early next year :wink:

Ohh yeahh... I'm talking about Jeff Lacey of course :heyhey:

Ali would have made Tyson go more than 2 rounds and exhausted him, the same as he did with Foreman who for me would have had Tyson as well in his hayday.

Ali is the best boxer of all time for me!

Originally posted by vidster
Tyson's venom means he gets my vote. That and the fact he is my all time favourite boxer!

I had a video (lost it now :() of about 10 of Tyson's early fights. The video only lasted an hour or so and most of that was taken up with introductions to the ring :hihi:

I am sad that he didn't stay on track and fight on for many more years :?

I 'think' i've found a new successor to Tyson's crown though. He's not a heavyweight but damn is he dangerous!
I think more people over here will sit up and watch him more once he destroys Joe Calzaghe early next year :wink:

Ohh yeahh... I'm talking about Jeff Lacey of course :heyhey:

i have a video somewhere and it has a clip..well not clips..full fights of about 20 in a row where he just demolishes everyone haha. class

Originally posted by MTheo
i have a video somewhere and it has a clip..well not clips..full fights of about 20 in a row where he just demolishes everyone haha. class

George Forman used to do that as well, Ali put a stop to that!
The bigger they are, the harder they fall :thumbsup:

no contest - ali, and quite easily ! remember what he did to george foreman, who would also have beaten tyson when in his prime.
tyson was a brute but he was beaten by the first man who wasn't scared of him.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
George Forman used to do that as well, Ali put a stop to that!
The bigger they are, the harder they fall :thumbsup:

Foreman is regarded as the most powerfull puncher of all time. This is backed up by all his opponents too. Like you say, Ali did the buisness over him too and this was in Foremans peak! Look at how Foreman destroyed Frazier!

Originally posted by derfice
no contest - ali, and quite easily ! remember what he did to george foreman, who would also have beaten tyson when in his prime.
tyson was a brute but he was beaten by the first man who wasn't scared of him.

If rules were adheared to ,Tyson would've beaten Douglas, the count went over 10. Now Tyson did lose for real against Hollyfield. Strangely enough, this guy only fears "God!". Shows there's strength in both faith and skill.

Tyson may fight great, but Ali was a great fighter. The greatest infact. Boxing is the art of self defence and there was none better than Ali.

I would put Tyson behind Ali, Frasier, Forman and Lewis. In their prime I think that Holyfield and Holmes could have given Tyson a very close fight and may have won .

Originally posted by JFKvsNixon
Tyson may fight great, but Ali was a great fighter.
dont quote apollo creed to us :rolleyes: haha

what a fantastic line :)

Originally posted by MTheo
dont quote apollo creed to us :rolleyes: haha

what a fantastic line :)

LOL I missed that one :clap: :thumbsup:

Now Apollo Creed in his prime would have beaten anyone.

Tyson would never have caught Ali to hit him. Another boxer with the same style of buldozing was taught this by Ali, Sonny Liston.

Originally posted by Albatross
Tyson would never have caught Ali to hit him. Another boxer with the same style of buldozing was taught this by Ali, Sonny Liston.

Spot on :thumbsup: Ali would have jabbed Tyson to the point of exhaustion, then finished him off easily, because let's not forget Ali had one of the hardest punches of any heavyweight as well as the grace of a ballerina. The man is my all time hero, both in and out of the ring.

Cassius Clay, in his prime, would have 'toyed' with Tyson, as he did to so many others like him.

"Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee" was no idle boast, the guy was fast, elusive and powerful!

Depends on how long the match lasted - in the earlier rounds I would favour Tyson in the later rounds I would favour Ali. Theres on old boxing adage which goes 'fight a boxer and box a fighter' and here I think you would see that in action.

Yeah, but put either in the ring with Suggs and they wouldn't have stood a chance!


Heiiiyaaaaaaaa!

Tyson at his peak truly earned the epithet, 'a force of nature'. He used combinations rarely seen before, and fought with an intensity that makes the senses reel. However, there is a world of difference between fighting the likes of Carl Williams, Mitch Green, Tony Tubbs etc, and the kind of truly world class contemporaries that Ali fought [and defeated]. Would Tyson look so impressive against the super-fit Ken Norton, the smaller but arguably faster Frazier, the formidable slab of muscle that was Foreman? I do not think Tyson would prevail against any of those three, let alone the masterful Ali at his best.

Tyson at his peak was arguably never tested by worthy opponents. His later defeat at the hands of journeyman, Buster Douglas came when he was in decline. He was a fine fighter, but hardly the 'greatest ever'. For those who admire 'fighters' rather than 'boxers', watch footage of Marciano and Dempsey. Marciano would have hurt Tyson so badly, as the latter has acknowledged in an interview. Dempsey, whose style allegedly influenced Tyson, was arguably capable of greater savagery and intensity than 'Iron Mike'. See for yourself in the footage available.

I honestly think that Ali would have tortured Tyson to madness, tousling with him, mocking him, and tiring him until the man 'with bad intentions' was out of steam. Then, Ali would move in and demolish his foe . I recall watching the early Tyson demolish yet another terrified opponent in the 80s. The camera caught Ali in reflective mode in the audience, with a smile playing about his lips. Perhaps the great man was amusing himself with the thought of how very different things might be for Tyson, had he faced peers like Frazier, Holmes, Norton, Foreman, Shavers, Liston and the greatest of them all- Muhammed Ali?

I remember the movie/computer fight between Ali and Rocky Marciano on January 20, 1970. Maybe somebody should do the same with Ali vs Tyson. I believe the Ali vs Marciano fight is coming out on DVD in December.

Originally posted by MTheo
dont quote apollo creed to us :rolleyes: haha

what a fantastic line :)
Was thinking the same thing.
ROCKY!

For those of you Tyson fans.
I have just ordered the following DVD (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6454755748&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:UK:11) from ebay.

I know it's probably a pirate compilation of all the details contained but still, if it contains all that it says it does then so what.

So looking forward to reliving some glorious Tyson matches.

Da Bouncer,
Do you remember Tyson's hilarious bout with the pathetic, Carl 'The Truth' Williams? I think it was Tyson's shortest fight, lasting less than a minute if I remember correctly. When asked of his opinion of 'The Truth', Tyson lisped, 'He lied'...

Ali would have been too intelletgent for Tyson.

Originally posted by timo
Da Bouncer,
Do you remember Tyson's hilarious bout with the pathetic, Carl 'The Truth' Williams? I think it was Tyson's shortest fight, lasting less than a minute if I remember correctly. When asked of his opinion of 'The Truth', Tyson lisped, 'He lied'...
Ha ha that's quality.
I'll be honest and say I don't remember that fight, but if it's on the DVD then I'm sure I'll see it again soon.

keeping on boxing ,when chuck wepner was going to fight ali wepner said to his wife tonight you,ll be sleeping with the champion of the world ,mrs wepner replied will ali be coming down or shall i be going up to his room!

I liked Don King's reply when asked if he thought Frank Bruno stood a chance against Tyson. 'Yeah, Bruno got two chances... slim and none'.

The merciless battering Bruno received in the final minute of his last round with Tyson still makes for sobering viewing. Tyson hammers Bruno from every angle, slamming into his opponent's face and body with awesome power. Had the referee not intervened, we would have lost one of the finest Pantomime entertainers and 'voice-over' artists this country has ever produced.

Are some of you muppets serious ?

I compete in boxing and have done since I was a kid. I'm a big fan of both, but Tyson would of beaten Ali. Different time perioids, Ali sure, was a legend but boxing evolved so much. It's like saying is Ronalhdino or Maradona better ? If it's boxing, as we know it, or football "as we know it" of course Tyson would walk it. I'm sorry but if you asked that down my boxing gym, ok out of respect for ali they wouldn't go OTT, but everyone would back iron mike.

If you think that Mike Tyson would walk it against Ali the it's you who's the muppet.
Ali would have won no doubt about it his skills were far superior to anything Tyson had.

Originally posted by Rentaknight
Are some of you muppets serious ?

I compete in boxing and have done since I was a kid. I'm a big fan of both, but Tyson would of beaten Ali. Different time perioids, Ali sure, was a legend but boxing evolved so much. It's like saying is Ronalhdino or Maradona better ? If it's boxing, as we know it, or football "as we know it" of course Tyson would walk it. I'm sorry but if you asked that down my boxing gym, ok out of respect for ali they wouldn't go OTT, but everyone would back iron mike.

Maradona was better than Ronaldinho, but thats another story....

How can you say Ali was more skillful than Tyson... Dumb mofo.

Easy watch my lips, Ali is better than Tyson.

Ali would have messed with Tysons head so much before the fight that Tyson would have been an uncontrollable rage. Then Ali would have danced around picking Tyson off with his golden jab.

Sure Tyson was ferocious, but he did not punch harder than Foreman. And Tyson had incredible hand speed but not as fast as Frasier. Ali managed to beat both these in what some consider the best boxing ever seen.

Tyson was the best boxer in the late 1980s and he beat a load of no hopers spectacularly, but he wasn't even the best boxer in the 1990s. I feel that Lewis at his prime would always beat Tyson at his prime. Lewis just too big, fast, strong and just too good for Tyson. Who was a short heavyweight. It could even be argued that Holyfield at his prime would beat Tyson in his prime. No one was better at a toe to toe fight than Holyfield in the 1990s, that man had the most inner strength ever.

Returning to when Ali would have finally finish a badley cut and beaten up Tyson if they ever met, I can only imagine Ali stealing a quote from another top heavyweight:

How can I loose with the stuff I use?

Ali was better than Tyson, but at this stage in their careers i reckon Tyson would have won it...just, 2 years on it would have been Ali.

Hi all,

Just a quick reminder to keep the name calling of other Forummers on this thread to a minimum. :)

Keep the fisticuffs inside the ropes!

Thanks,

Joe

Rentaknight,
I am sure that many of the 'muppets' in the pro-Ali camp [myself included] would be interested to read your evidence to the effect that Boxing has 'evolved so much' since the days when Ali fought. How exactly has it 'evolved'? You imply that the art/sport has progressed in terms of the quality of the boxers. This is risible. Arguably, heavyweight boxing reached a peak in the days of Ali, Frasier, Foreman, Holmes, Spinks, Shavers, Norton etc. The contemporary heavyweight boxing scene bears no comparison in terms of the quality of the fighters. Things were much the same at the height of Tyson's powers. To reiterate what I said in a previous posting, do you really think that the kind of opponents Tyson faced- Bruno, Tubbs, Green, Douglas etc can be mentioned in the same breath as Ken Norton? Ali fought at the zenith of heavyweight boxing, and truly earned the title, 'the Greatest'. As I said earlier, he would have tortured Tyson to madness, humiliated him, and beaten him.

By the way, Rentaknight, on the subject of 'evolution'; your use of offensive, loutish terms like 'muppet' and 'dumb mofo' are the mark of a silly little boy, not a man. They suggest that you have not 'evolved' very much at all. I would say that you haven't even reached 'sapiens' stage yet.

Personally I think Ali would have weed all over Tyson.

I'm quite bemused to the extent that Tyson still has legions of fans even though he's a convicted rapist. Despite the fact a lot of people believe he didn't do it. Now who people choose to support is their own business but didn't the star recently run a competition to meet him?

I think Carl 'The Truth' Williams and Frank 'Widow T****y' Bruno DID 'wee' all over Tyson. With sheer terror. LOL.

Originally posted by timo
I think Carl 'The Truth' Williams and Frank 'Widow T****y' Bruno DID 'wee' all over Tyson. With sheer terror. LOL.

Timo - sorry that the Widow T w a n k y reference got zapped by the software here - it's automagic and rather over protective on occasion!! :)

Joe

Joe,
Cheers, old fruit. Thought some trigger-happy young whippersnapper of a moderator had intervened!

Bruno will be remembered as a brief champion, but he certainly received some mighty leatherings from the likes of Witherspoon and Tyson. Apparently, his season as Aladdin in Panto in Peterborough was sheer hell too. As was his stint as Buttons at Ingoldmells Mermaid Theatre, not to mention the superhuman difficulty of juggling his rehearsals for HP Sauce advertisements with his cameo appearances on The Sooty Show.

Unfortunately I don't see Tyson been able to beat Ali. Tyson has demonstrated time and time again that he never had the mental strength to deal with boxers who weren't imtimated by him.

As exciting and good Tyson was to watch, he doesn't even make it into my top ten all time heavies.

Muhammad Ali

2. Joe Louis
3. George Foreman
4. Larry Holmes

5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier

9. Sonny Liston
10. Jersey Joe Walcott

Originally posted by Lickszz
Unfortunately I don't see Tyson been able to beat Ali. Tyson has demonstrated time and time again that he never had the mental strength to deal with boxers who weren't imtimated by him.

As exciting and good Tyson was to watch, he doesn't even make it into my top ten all time heavies.

Muhammad Ali

2. Joe Louis
3. George Foreman
4. Larry Holmes

5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier

9. Sonny Liston
10. Jersey Joe Walcott

Pretty decent list except I would put Tyson at the top of it just ahead of Ali.

Originally posted by serapis
Tyson was a mugger and Ali was a brilliant boxer. Tyson would have won hands down. They guy was a pure muscle killing machine. Bye far IMO the best boxer who ever lived!

Ali may have been the best heavy that ever lived along with Joe Louis but I can't place him as the best boxer that ever lived. He is one of the best but there are too many other names around who I hold in higher esteem, such as:

Harry Greb
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Ray Robinson
Sam Langford
Archie Moore
Jimmy Wilde

I have read that Ali frequently held back in a fight to put on a show (I think it was in Davis Miller's Ali book).

dfgenius,
I can believe that. Ali loved to taunt and tease opponents too, and to seemingly gloat over their plight. I always sensed the viciousness in him, the cruelty along with the arrogance which is absolutely required of any pugilist. All boxers have to have the capacity to deal out pain [as well as absorb it] relentlessly. Ali, very much like Roberto Duran, seemed to enjoy the process of weakening and hurting his opponents. I imagine all boxers do, it is just that Ali made theatre out of it. Allegedly, he taunted Frasier all through their fights.

Amusingly, Frasier thought that the expression 'Uncle Tom' [ meaning a black person who grovels and kowtows to whites] meant the same as 'Peeping Tom'. In Frasier's words 'some guy who gets off lookin' thru folks' windows at night!'...

Originally posted by spyro2000
Pretty decent list except I would put Tyson at the top of it just ahead of Ali.

That's fair enough, it's just that Tyson never actually beat any great fighters who were in their prime, so I don't believe that warrants him in any all time list. He is remembered for quitting in numerous fights when things weren't going his way.

Surely ALI would win . He is much composed compared to tyson

Originally posted by pk014b7161
bit of fun, tyson aged 23 v ali 23 who,d win & why

having just finished watching the whole of tysons career on dvd my opinion is this.........at 20 tyson would have been far too strong for ali but at 30 + ali would have out boxed tyson easily.