All,

Just seen this on the Sheffield Star website.

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1261382

I know similar threads have done the rounds before, but this issue is NEVER going to go away. I live on Ecclesall road, my bedroom faces it and a week doesn't go by without myself being woken up by someone/group shouting the odds. I don't have a problem at the weekend as im out and about myself but take issue when its' a "school night". Before anyone jumps in, im sure it's not always students who are to blame, but the blame should be proportionate to who live in my area. My Car bonnet currently sports 3 footmarks across the bonnet.

There are wider issues here as the article suggest. Families and communities are moving out of areas where homes are turned into places that can sleep 5+. More students than ever now have access to a Car so side roads are jammed. Business are effected as fast-food places and kebab houses replace Butchers, Post officers etc. Broomhall is an example.

I'm sure someone is about to state to me what students bring to the City and how they fill jobs in bars and restaurants etc, but that is a chicken and egg thing. The many Bars and Restaurants that we boast are due directly and indirectly supported by the large student population we have.

I am NOT anti-student, I used to be one. I just think a little respect for neighbours and their property is due.

Take issue with the landlords, mate. They're the ones cramming 6+ students into houses originally built for three!

(I'm always quiet on my way home. Simple measures - why can't they put up big signs saying SHHHHHHH BABIES ASLEEP IN THIS AREA?)


By the way, your link is to a lee evans story? :)

I've lived in the Ecclesall area for 4 years now, and although the local students do make noise (as do I), I've found the real problems are caused by some of the school kids at High Storrs and King Edwards. I mentioned in a post earlier that there's recently been a large increase in the number of scallies hanging around.

I suspect all these anti student feelings are misdirected. In my experience most of the students are well behaved - I wonder if it's the local chavs misbehaving that's the real cause of disharmony in this city?

I think the problem comes from young people today having no respect for anyone else.

Student or Chav, they all want locking up until they're 35.

http://www.sheffieldstar.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1261382

All,

Edited my original post with the correct link.

Cheers

From the interview; "If every incident had been reported to the police, someone on our street would have been on the phone to them every day"

Then why didn't they?

This has happened in a MAJOR way in Leeds.

Headingley, once a beautiful family area, now almost entirely consists of the dreaded 'houses of multiple occupation'. Whether they're lived in by students, or asylum seekers, or office workers in their 20s sharing with friends, is almost immaterial really - the whole area is becoming/has become a slum in just a few short years. There's just too many people living in too small an area, and it's all falling apart.

You can hardly find a family left in Headingley, and those that are still there, are desperately trying to leave. It's no area to bring children up in today. Apart from anything else, there aren't any other kids around for them to play with!

Some of the longer-standing residents formed a group to try to encourage residents who were selling up to sell only to other families, but it was too late. :( The prices had shot up to the level where only landlords could afford to buy them, and in any case, there were so few families left by then, the area had lost its appeal. I don't think it's nice to try to raise kids where you have no idea who lives next door to you, and in any case, your neighbours change every year.

Personally, I blame the landlords for being greedy b*******. They shove 6 or 7 people into a property only designed for maybe 3 residents, and most of the houses on the street are in the same situation. The infrastructure simply can't cope, and the local 'social contract' breaks down. Everybody loses, except..... the landlords! Totally hate them - modern parasites.

It's such a shame - and I can see Broomhill - amd maybe Crookes - going exactly the same way as Headingley. :(

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle
Personally, I blame the landlords for being greedy b*******. They shove 6 or 7 people into a property only designed for maybe 3 residents, and most of the houses on the street are in the same situation. The infrastructure simply can't cope, and the local 'social contract' breaks down. Everybody loses, except..... the landlords! Totally hate them - modern parasites.

Landlords are like any other businessman/woman; they are trying to make money.

If you owned a 2 bedroomed house that you were planning on letting, and could potentially double your income by converting one of the ground floor rooms into another bedroom, wouldn't you do it? I know I would.

It may have happened in Leeds but if you look at the student areas in Sheffield it just isn't the case. You could hardly call Crookes, Broomhill, Walkley or Eccelsall road slums. Is it really any worse now than it was ten years ago (when I was first a student). I don't think so and I don't see any reason for it to get worse in the future. I agree with asbo that it is not necessarily students that are the problem.

How does this woman know that the "yobs" on her road were students???
Were they all wearing jumpers saying "I am a student"? Just because the trouble happened in a time when the students were around, it doesn't mean they were responsible! Considering many students live in Sheffield 12 months of the year, why not blame all crime, vandalism and antisocial behaviour on them hey?!
Perhaps students were responsible for some or all of the trouble, but sensationalist articles like this are hardly going to solve the problem. The fact is that Broomhill, Walkley & Crookes are some of the most desirable and expensive areas in the city and house prices have risen dramatically in the last few years. I'm sure if this lasy wishes to move, there will be a queue of people lining up to buy her house!

Q. Why do you never hear of students getting ASBOS?

A. Because their antisocial behaviour 'drives the local economy'. From the moment they arrive at uni, they're being given cheap debt by the government and banks on the one hand, on the other hand being bombarded with attempts to make them spend it all on vodka, etc. The result is that while some are well behaved, others are encouraged to spend 3 years being complete a***holes.

This isn't all new. The first colleges at Oxford were founded in an attempt to get the unruly and riotous scholars under some kind of control, and that was in the 13th century. What is new is the idea that students are essentially consumers - whether buying 'transferable skills' from their universities, or vodka-laced pop from the binge drinks industry. If students did their drinking sitting on the swings in the local park, there'd be ASBOs on them sooner than you can say "chav scum". But because they play such a 'vital contribution' to the local economy, they mostly get away with it - until, that is, they graduate, find the banks have started charging interest on their overdrafts, get jobs and begin to understand why the rest of the world loathes drunken idiots yelling in the street at three o'clock on a weekday morning and vomiting over the cash machine...

Originally posted by dougald
Q. Why do you never hear of students getting ASBOS?


Students generally don't go around spraying graffiti, smash up bus stops, get drunk outside shops........

They generally don't commit violent crimes, burglary or muggings. Rather, they tend to be on the receiving end of them.

The vast majority of students are not nuisance neighbours, and do not intimidate locals by hanging around in gangs.

So, what case have you got for giving students ASBO's?

Thats pretty sucky innit!!

On the plus side they have nearly finished building those massive student accomodations and there are more being built now. I asume this is going to put quite a few of these houses without tennents as will be cheaper etc? well that or there will just be even more students??

Originally posted by sw9wj
It may have happened in Leeds but if you look at the student areas in Sheffield it just isn't the case. You could hardly call Crookes, Broomhill, Walkley or Eccelsall road slums. Is it really any worse now than it was ten years ago (when I was first a student). I don't think so and I don't see any reason for it to get worse in the future. I agree with asbo that it is not necessarily students that are the problem.

If you bothered to read what I wrote, I didn't say Crookes, Broomhill, Walkley or Eccleshall are slums - clearly they aren't..... yet.

It took a while for Headingley to become a slum - but it's got there, and I can see the same pattern happening, certainly in Broomhill, maybe in Crookes, with the potential at Walkley. I can't comment on Eccleshall as I don't really know it that well.

I was posting in the hope that these areas of Sheffield WOULDN'T go the way of Leeds - but I am quite concerned for the future.

StarSparkle

"They generally don't commit violent crimes, burglary or muggings...."

The whole point of ASBOs is that they AREN'T used to tackle that sort of crime - they're ways of dealing with the kind of antisocial behaviour that used to fall below the police radar. That basically means anything that makes a neighbourhood more unpleasant to live in.

As they're generally applied, this means spraying graffiti or hanging around in gangs on streetcorners. Where I live and work, in Sharrow and the city centre, it's obvious as soon as the students come back because of the increase in night time noise, fast food detritus, vomit on pavements (and, on one occasion, the nearest cash machine), disarrayed street furniture. Unless you've lived in a student neighbourhood both in and out of term time, you probably aren't aware of how much difference it makes. My argument is that this is just as much antisocial behaviour as graffiti or street-drinking - and the only reason it isn't treated as such is because it's not done by poor people.

(Interestingly, the exception seems to be in Worcester: http://worcester.oncampusuk.co.uk/main/campaigns/ASBO.)

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
Landlords are like any other businessman/woman; they are trying to make money.

If you owned a 2 bedroomed house that you were planning on letting, and could potentially double your income by converting one of the ground floor rooms into another bedroom, wouldn't you do it? I know I would.

I've got too much personal morality to become a landlady - simple as that. I couldn't live with being such a parasite.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by dougald
[BUnless you've lived in a student neighbourhood both in and out of term time, you probably aren't aware of how much difference it makes. [/B]

I've lived in a student area during and out of termtime for the last 4 years.

The graffiti 'tagging' and idiots that hang around where I live are from the surrounding schools. Though obviously there are exceptions.

"I've lived in a student area during and out of termtime for the last 4 years... The graffiti 'tagging' and idiots that hang around where I live are from the surrounding schools. Though obviously there are exceptions."

I wasn't saying students did graffiti or hung around on street corners. Do you accept that the behaviour I described is also antisocial? And can you think of another reason, apart from the fact that students are cash cows for the city, why their antisocial behaviour is tolerated?

I don't really see the behaviour of students in general as antisocial.

There is a minority, for sure, that will cause problems, but I don't think it is fair to lump all students into the same category.

I don't think the authorities treat students as exceptions to the rule when they do happen to commit crimes.

We've never had a problem with students in Walkley - it's the local man who shoots cats that is encouraging us to leave.

The point is that while some students can be extremely inconsiderate (or worse), Walkley's problems aren't all down to them. I'm fairly sure the kids who lurk outside the shop on south road and spit lovely shimmering globs of phlegm as you pass aren't students, either.

Before I retire from what could become a rather circular argument, here are the categories of antisocial behaviour listed on the Home Office website (http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/asbos9.htm?fp):

1. graffiti

2. abusive and intimidating language

3. excessive noise, particularly late at night

4. fouling the street with litter

5. drunken behaviour in the streets, and the mess it creates

6. dealing drugs, with all the problems to which it gives rise.

While I agree that students are not generally involved in 1 or 6, from my experience they are major sources of 2 to 5. I also agree that not all students are the same - but if it's not OK to talk about the tendencies of students as a group, then you can't talk about the tendencies of other groups such as schoolkids, NEETs, etc, which makes this kind of discussion pretty difficult.

I'm not arguing that, on those occasions when students commit full-on crimes, they aren't treated equally. But a great deal of antisocial behaviour is (as I said before) below the level of crime in the traditional sense. It's at this level that a blind eye is turned to the kind of behaviour by a significant proportion of students which makes them a pain to live next door to.

Originally posted by Johnnywarren
I think the problem comes from young people today having no respect for anyone else.

Student or Chav, they all want locking up until they're 35.

Ugh, you sir need to shut up.

There's nothing wrong with students, if it wasn't for them, Crookes and Broomhill would be like Ghost towns at night etc.

I'm sorry if this post offends, I just think the anti-student brigade needs to shut the heck up.

Originally posted by dougald
Before I retire from what could become a rather circular argument, here are the categories of antisocial behaviour listed on the Home Office website (http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/asbos9.htm?fp):

1. graffiti

2. abusive and intimidating language

3. excessive noise, particularly late at night

4. fouling the street with litter

5. drunken behaviour in the streets, and the mess it creates

6. dealing drugs, with all the problems to which it gives rise.

While I agree that students are not generally involved in 1 or 6, from my experience they are major sources of 2 to 5. I also agree that not all students are the same - but if it's not OK to talk about the tendencies of students as a group, then you can't talk about the tendencies of other groups such as schoolkids, NEETs, etc, which makes this kind of discussion pretty difficult.

I'm not arguing that, on those occasions when students commit full-on crimes, they aren't treated equally. But a great deal of antisocial behaviour is (as I said before) below the level of crime in the traditional sense. It's at this level that a blind eye is turned to the kind of behaviour by a significant proportion of students which makes them a pain to live next door to.

but ASBOS are designed to stop persistant offenders in the same area. surely this is unlikely to apply to students unless the same ones do it very regularly

1. How stupid are you if you want to sell your house to go to the press?

2. Springvale Rd is a dump. You have to be pretty daft to buy a house on there. Especially the Commonside end. I used to live right down the bottom and I was more concerned about the guy with a sawn off in the flat below thatn student noice!

3. Broomhill housing wise is pretty ghettoised. a lot of the student properties are absolute dives with landlords not maintaining them in any way shape or form. I

4. Springvale Rd has never been in Walkley surely?

5. We get the odd noisy student group in the middle of the week in the midle of the night. Every weekend you get noisy, abusive, fighting groups.

I fail to see how you can expect a noisy, unruly, inconsiderate child that goes through an education system that has no means of controlling it, that even if it gains only mediocre exam results, is almost guaranteed a university place somewhere or other... To suddenly change into a responsible adult on leaving home and resuming schooling in a different city!

Brats, who have experienced next to no discipline in their lives so far, being 'let free' in society, with virtually no restrictions on their conduct whatsoever is a sure-fire recipe for unruly behaviour and anti-social actions amongst some (by no means all) so-called 'young adults'... How can you expect anything other than this result from the system as it currently operates?

Originally posted by Rich
There's nothing wrong with students, if it wasn't for them, Crookes and Broomhill would be like Ghost towns at night etc.


If it wasn't for students, there'd be no doctors, nurses, opticians, teachers, accountants, laywers, judges, etc...

And Springvale Road isn't Walkley, it's Springvale.

--
JGH

but they are still student scum. These days we import our doctors and nurses

They should learn respect like we did as kids.

Originally posted by Internetowl
but they are still student scum. These days we import our doctors and nurses

They should learn respect like we did as kids.

Only cos nobody wants to work for the NHS cos of the long hours for crap money situation.

Originally posted by Rich
Only cos nobody wants to work for the NHS cos of the long hours for crap money situation.

that is probably the most ridiculous post I've ever seen

Originally posted by jgharston


And Springvale Road isn't Walkley, it's Springvale.

--
JGH

RE: Springvale Road - according to SCC, Springvale isn't technically an area - I always had it down as Crookes...

Crookes ward (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/elections/ward-boundaries/crookes)
Walkley ward (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/elections/ward-boundaries/walkley)
Broomhill ward (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/elections/ward-boundaries/broomhill)

RE: the new appartments - are these the ones down at Compton Street near Bell-Hagg Road?

Originally posted by kentboy119
RE: Springvale Road - according to SCC, Springvale isn't technically an area - I always had it down as Crookes...

Crookes ward (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/elections/ward-boundaries/crookes)
Walkley ward (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/elections/ward-boundaries/walkley)
Broomhill ward (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/elections/ward-boundaries/broomhill)

Wards don't tell you wahat community you live in. Just what collection of 13,500 adults you have been placed in for electoral purposes.

Springvale is in Crookes Ward. Crosspool is in Crookes Ward. Doesn't mean that Crosspool is *in* Crookes. Crosspool is *next to* Crookes. Both Crookes and Crosspool are in Crookes *Ward*.

Wards are artificial constructs for the sole purpose of representing the same number of residents at elections. The Council has worked out a set of neightbourhoods which are a lot closer to the actual communities that people identify with.

See http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/facts-figures/indices-of-deprivation/sheffield-results for the index map. It's a bit difficult to see, but it looks like "Springvale" is a subset of "Crookesmoor".

They are an initial start, and there are some flaws in them, but they are a lot better than 28 groupings of 13,500 adults.

--
JGH

Originally posted by Rich
Only cos nobody wants to work for the NHS cos of the long hours for crap money situation.

Er no, its because of the lack of skilled doctors and nurses so think before ya post crap :D

Originally posted by jgharston
If it wasn't for students, there'd be no doctors, nurses, opticians, teachers, accountants, laywers, judges, etc...

JGH

I'm not anti-student (I've been one myself on a number of occasions!) - but with something like 50% of the school-leaving population now going on to some form of higher education, those who end up as doctors, lawyers, etc are surely very much in the minority?

The make-up of the student body is VERY different from what it was, say 20 years ago. There are so many more students now than there used to be - and that is part of the problem re houses of multiple occupation in places like Broomhill.

StarSparkle

It's not just noisy students disturbing the poor quiet families, it does happen the other way round sometimes! I was a student until earlier this year, and in my part of Walkley it was always screaming families that made it hard to concentrate on my work, either parents next door or across the road who think the best way to teach their kids to be quiet is to yell "shuuut uuup!" at them or have shouted conversations with them outside at a distance of about 10 metres away instead of walking over and talking to them, kids yelling at each other in the road or kicking footballs at the side of people's houses or, on the occasions when I didn't have to be in tutorials at 9 o'clock, being woken up by the woman across the road enlightening the whole street as to how many minutes late her kids were for school and that they needed to get in the car, now! I know there's always the library, but most of the time I was not prepared to waste an hour walking there and back when I could have been working, and not being able to do my work in my own house seemed a bit too much like admitting defeat! Yeah yeah, I know I'm being a grumpy g*t, but when it happened Every Day it did get to me a little bit!

I'm not saying that drunk students/drunk locals etc. aren't also a problem in some areas, but couldn't resist pointing out that it's not always the families who are the innocent victims where noise is concerned!

Charley *dons flameproof jacket...*

Originally posted by StarSparkle
I'm not anti-student (I've been one myself on a number of occasions!) - but with something like 50% of the school-leaving population now going on to some form of higher education, those who end up as doctors, lawyers, etc are surely very much in the minority?


No not really. The key is 'some form or other' - lots of people go from college to vocational courses.

Its not just doctors and lawyers - my friends are studying architecture, civil engineering, physics, maths, history, english, social work, social policy, mechanics, micro-biology, zoology, accounting, finance, french, german, russian...I even have a mate studying aerospace engineering! And yes, medicine and law.

We seem to have lost sight of the fact that studying isn't just to get on a career path. I study politics and sociology because its damned interesting! Its worth getting into a lot of debt to further myself. I'm not going to walk straight into a job, but I have worked on other areas of my CV so that I'll have something to do when I finish.

Originally posted by kathythebean
No not really. The key is 'some form or other' - lots of people go from college to vocational courses.

Its not just doctors and lawyers - my friends are studying architecture, civil engineering, physics, maths, history, english, social work, social policy, mechanics, micro-biology, zoology, accounting, finance, french, german, russian...I even have a mate studying aerospace engineering! And yes, medicine and law.


The point I was trying to make is that a large number of today's students do NOT go on to become a member of a profession.

JGHarston seemed to be saying 'Where would our society be without all these students?', citing their usefulness as future professionals. I was pointing out that a high percentage of students do not join a profession after they graduate.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by CharleyF
It's not just noisy students disturbing the poor quiet families, it does happen the other way round sometimes! I was a student until earlier this year, and in my part of Walkley it was always screaming families that made it hard to concentrate on my work, either parents next door or across the road who think the best way to teach their kids to be quiet is to yell "shuuut uuup!" at them or have shouted conversations with them outside at a distance of about 10 metres away instead of walking over and talking to them, kids yelling at each other in the road or kicking footballs at the side of people's houses or, on the occasions when I didn't have to be in tutorials at 9 o'clock, being woken up by the woman across the road enlightening the whole street as to how many minutes late her kids were for school and that they needed to get in the car, now! I know there's always the library, but most of the time I was not prepared to waste an hour walking there and back when I could have been working, and not being able to do my work in my own house seemed a bit too much like admitting defeat! Yeah yeah, I know I'm being a grumpy g*t, but when it happened Every Day it did get to me a little bit!

I'm not saying that drunk students/drunk locals etc. aren't also a problem in some areas, but couldn't resist pointing out that it's not always the families who are the innocent victims where noise is concerned!

Charley *dons flameproof jacket...*

I hear you. I have "scum" family on the road below who insist at screaming at each other from dusk till dawn

Originally posted by StarSparkle
If you bothered to read what I wrote, I didn't say Crookes, Broomhill, Walkley or Eccleshall are slums - clearly they aren't..... yet.

It took a while for Headingley to become a slum - but it's got there, and I can see the same pattern happening, certainly in Broomhill, maybe in Crookes, with the potential at Walkley. I can't comment on Eccleshall as I don't really know it that well.

I was posting in the hope that these areas of Sheffield WOULDN'T go the way of Leeds - but I am quite concerned for the future.

StarSparkle


By "Eccleshall" you mean the Ecclesall Road area. There's no students up in the area of Ecclesall (although the sprawl from the centre outwards is reaching as far up as Greystones and Banner Cross now).

Originally posted by StarSparkle
The point I was trying to make is that a large number of today's students do NOT go on to become a member of a profession.

JGHarston seemed to be saying 'Where would our society be without all these students?', citing their usefulness as future professionals. I was pointing out that a high percentage of students do not join a profession after they graduate.

StarSparkle

I have a sneaking suspicion that the increase in student numbers from 20% of the population to 50% means that that 20% of hard working pre-professionals have been joined by a 30% who are there for different reasons.

Certainly when I was at university in the 1980s there was a huge drop in numbers from year one to year two as all those who just weren't capable of doing a university course flunked out. Some even stated openly that they were there as a soft alternative to signing on.

--
JGH

Originally posted by t020
By "Eccleshall" you mean the Ecclesall Road area. There's no students up in the area of Ecclesall (although the sprawl from the centre outwards is reaching as far up as Greystones and Banner Cross now).

Oh, do give it a rest, T020 :rolleyes:

You really are tiresome.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle
Oh, do give it a rest, T020 :rolleyes:

You really are tiresome.

StarSparkle


Maybe, but you shouldn't misrepresent things, intentionally or otherwise. Ecclesall itself contains few, if any, university students.

"There's nothing wrong with students, if it wasn't for them, Crookes and Broomhill would be like Ghost towns at night etc."

I reckon most of the residents of Crookes and Broomhill (student or otherwise) want their areas to be 'like ghost towns' at night - i.e. quiet and peaceful. Or am I being a boring, old-fashioned git?

Originally posted by jgharston
I have a sneaking suspicion that the increase in student numbers from 20% of the population to 50% means that that 20% of hard working pre-professionals have been joined by a 30% who are there for different reasons.


That is my sneaking suspicion as well..... :P

StarSparkle :)

Originally posted by StarSparkle
That is my sneaking suspicion as well..... :P

StarSparkle :)

"50% of the population" is a false figure. That would be 30m people. The *target* is 50% of SCHOOL/COLLEGE leavers, but it's currently at about 44% of them going into higher education. This is not of "the population" as a whole.

Originally posted by t020
Maybe, but you shouldn't misrepresent things, intentionally or otherwise. Ecclesall itself contains few, if any, university students.

Oh dear, I am so careless, how will I live with myself? I must give myself a firm telling-off :rolleyes:

It seems to be a matter of little importance to anyone but you. Get over yourself.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle
Oh dear, I am so careless, how will I live with myself? I must give myself a firm telling-off :rolleyes:

It seems to be a matter of little importance to anyone but you. Get over yourself.

StarSparkle

I'm not "under myself". It's irrelevant how much of an issue you PERCEIVE it to be for other people. At the end of the day, most people wouldn't like false slurs against the area in which they live. I'm no different. Judging how important an issue is ob behalf of nearly 20,000 people? Get over yourself.

Originally posted by t020
"50% of the population" is a false figure. That would be 30m people. The *target* is 50% of SCHOOL/COLLEGE leavers, but it's currently at about 44% of them going into higher education. This is not of "the population" as a whole.

If you bothered to read my previous posts properly, you will find that is EXACTLY what I said - 50% of the school-leaving population going into some form of higher education, NOT the population of the UK as a whole.

No apology necessary. :D

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle
If you bothered to read my previous posts properly, you will find that is EXACTLY what I said - 50% of the school-leaving population going into some form of higher education, NOT the population of the UK as a whole.

No apology necessary. :D

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle

Originally posted by jgharston
I have a sneaking suspicion that the increase in student numbers from 20% of the population to 50% means that that 20% of hard working pre-professionals have been joined by a 30% who are there for different reasons.



That is my sneaking suspicion as well.....

StarSparkle

Originally posted by t020
I'm not "under myself". It's irrelevant how much of an issue you PERCEIVE it to be for other people. At the end of the day, most people wouldn't like false slurs against the area in which they live. I'm no different. Judging how important an issue is ob behalf of nearly 20,000 people? Get over yourself.

So students living in an area is a 'slur' against that area, is it? What a strange world you inhabit. Don't you have doctors and lawyers living near you in, where was it again, Eccleshall or something? Don't you realise many of your neighbours were almost certainly once students, and might take exception to your comments?

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle
So students living in an area is a 'slur' against that area, is it? What a strange world you inhabit. Don't you have doctors and lawyers living near you in, where was it again, Eccleshall or something? Don't you realise many of your neighbours were almost certainly once students, and might take exception to your comments?

StarSparkle

It IS a slur when the insinuation is that they act like "yobs" and go around vandalising cars and shouting abuse until the early hours. Yes, many of my neighbours (infact, just about all I know of) are graduates, but that's irrelevant. They don't cause problems and in their day, students moved the odd traffic cone. These days, a bit of criminal damage is thrown in for good measure.

Originally posted by t020
That is my sneaking suspicion as well.....

StarSparkle
[/QUOTE]

Oh for heaven's sake, T020, grow up a bit. YOU REALLY DON"T NEED TO SHOUT.

How stupid are you? I was not referring to JGHarston's post, I was referring to MY OWN posting just before his, where I made my comments regarding the figure of 50% re the student population.

Don't shout at me because you can't be bothered to read a thread properly. :rant:

StarSparkle

There is no reason for my post, other than to break you two up.

I'm a student though, if that has any relevance. Not much noise in my area, would be even less if we had double glazing!

:heyhey:

Originally posted by jgharston
Wards don't tell you wahat community you live in. Just what collection of 13,500 adults you have been placed in for electoral purposes.

Springvale is in Crookes Ward. Crosspool is in Crookes Ward. Doesn't mean that Crosspool is *in* Crookes. Crosspool is *next to* Crookes. Both Crookes and Crosspool are in Crookes *Ward*.

Wards are artificial constructs for the sole purpose of representing the same number of residents at elections. The Council has worked out a set of neightbourhoods which are a lot closer to the actual communities that people identify with.

See http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/facts-figures/indices-of-deprivation/sheffield-results for the index map. It's a bit difficult to see, but it looks like "Springvale" is a subset of "Crookesmoor".

They are an initial start, and there are some flaws in them, but they are a lot better than 28 groupings of 13,500 adults.

--
JGH

Hi JG,

I remember we went through this before.

Cheers for the link,
KB

t020, StarSparkle.....

Please don't make me put you both on the naughty step.... :)

Joe

Originally posted by StarSparkle


Oh for heaven's sake, T020, grow up a bit. YOU REALLY DON"T NEED TO SHOUT.

How stupid are you? I was not referring to JGHarston's post, I was referring to MY OWN posting just before his, where I made my comments regarding the figure of 50% re the student population.

Don't shout at me because you can't be bothered to read a thread properly. :rant:

StarSparkle


I wasn't shouting, I was highlighting. If you were referring to your own figure of the *TARGET* 50% of school leavers, perhaps you should have been more clear, or at least corrected jgharston rather than agreeing with his figures?

Originally posted by t020
I wasn't shouting, I was highlighting. If you were referring to your own figure of the *TARGET* 50% of school leavers, perhaps you should have been more clear, or at least corrected jgharston rather than agreeing with his figures?

I'll take that as the nearest anyone's ever likely to get to an apology from you :D

StarSparkle

Originally posted by t020
"50% of the population" is a false figure. That would be 30m people. The *target* is 50% of SCHOOL/COLLEGE leavers, but it's currently at about 44% of them going into higher education. This is not of "the population" as a whole.

But, ultimately, if 50% of 18-year-olds go to university, then there will eventually be 50% of the whole population that will have gone to university.

I thought that was the whole point of geting 50% of 18-year-olds into University, that in 60 years time then 50% of 18-to-78-year-olds would have been to university.

--
JGH

Originally posted by jgharston
But, ultimately, if 50% of 18-year-olds go to university, then there will eventually be 50% of the whole population that will have gone to university.

I thought that was the whole point of geting 50% of 18-year-olds into University, that in 60 years time then 50% of 18-to-78-year-olds would have been to university.

--
JGH

Yes, but it's 2005 and not 2065. At this moment, 50% of the whole population is a gross exaggeration. It isn't even 50% of the school leaving population yet. Even if government policy remains constant for the next 6 DECADES the target might still be missed.

Don't get me started!

Don't get me wrong - I think it's great people want to go to uni but these people are supposedly 'bright' :suspect:

In my area (Crookesmoor) I would bet that the people who regulary jump into my hedge causing holes are students, the people who knocked my wingmirrors off were students, the people who make all the noise are students.

One one of these accounts I can certainly give proof. Not only was the noise coming from a student house (I think there are only a few on the road that are family homes anyway) but when my mother phoned the landlord at 2am and asked

'did I wake you? - oh sorry - I haven't been to sleep yet for the racket your students are making'
and 'are you watching Morse? Can you tell me what's happening because I can't hear it'

The noise soon stopped! I agree with the original poster - I'm not anti-student just wish they'd have a bit more respect.

How does the law lie with noise after 11pm - I know you can't set fire works off after 11 or beep your horn - what about verbal noise? Would like to know for future reference!

I'm a student and I'm sick of people coming back drunk late at night vandalising stuff and causing a racket. Students or not, I don't know. It's disappointing to see that people are moving out of the area as a result of their problems, how long will it be before their house becomes a HMO?

I took a bus one evening a few weeks back from my house to near the Sheffield Uni Students Union (something which I rarely do) and it has to be said that the two dozen very loud, half drunk students (young adults??) that got on it part way were very intimidating and made me feel ashamed to be part of the same University.

From time to time I pass houses regularly with collections of road cones in the front garden, to me it looks like an advert to thieves.

Agreed

I take issue with anyone being un-necessarily noisy in the street. t020 is wrong saying that there are no students living in the Ecclesall area. I live there and there are shed loads of em.

Originally posted by johnjo
Agreed

I take issue with anyone being un-necessarily noisy in the street. t020 is wrong saying that there are no students living in the Ecclesall area. I live there and there are shed loads of em.

Yeah but he thinks Eccleshall is heaven on Earth so he won't admit to there being any students there... :loopy:

This is intersting. I used to live on a street where this type of thing was commonplace ance once caught a little rapscallion doing it to a neighbours car. There was no way he was a student. He was a chav, with 2 other chavs. They soon ran off when I shouted what I was going to do with their heads and my faeces if I caught them.

I later moved out of Walkley, not because of the chavs, but because of the people on my street. Every single one of them thinked that they owned the road. I used to get little tickets on my car saying "DO NOT PARK IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE" and "I'VE BEEN PARKING HERE FOR 105 YEARS GET OUT OF MY SPACE", when my car was only parked on a public road, struggling with every other inhabitant to find a space. You'll know what I mean if you've ever tried to park in Walkley.

I found Walkley the most unwelcome place in Sheffield. Even more so than The Wybourn where I grew up.

Originally posted by johnjo
Agreed

I take issue with anyone being un-necessarily noisy in the street. t020 is wrong saying that there are no students living in the Ecclesall area. I live there and there are shed loads of em.

Give the guy break - he's correct.

Are you sure you live in Ecclesall?

Ecclesall Road (which leads to Ecclesall Road South which admittedly, does lead to Ecclesall, S11 9**) is a good couple of miles towards the city centre - Ecclesall Road (mainly S11 8**) is in either: Banner Cross, Hunters Bar and I believe Sharrow.

:)

There are very few students in Ecclesall (S11 9), as it's a quiet district, and they'll prefer Crookes or Broomhill.

Originally posted by Rich
Yeah but he thinks Eccleshall is heaven on Earth so he won't admit to there being any students there... :loopy:

As previously mentioned, there may be well be high-earning University graduates, but the Strokes-listening, Independent-reading, shaggy-haired 19-year-old, I doubt.

And no, I don't have anything against students - they inevitibly help run your city - :P :)

Originally posted by kentboy119
As previously mentioned, there may be well be high-earning University graduates, but the Strokes-listening, Independent-reading, shaggy-haired 19-year-old, I doubt.

And no, I don't have anything against students - they inevitibly help run your city - :P :)

If they're Uni Graduates, they're ex-students.. emphasis on EX...

Far be it for me to stick up for HIM.. But in this case he's possibly right, there's possibly no students in Eccleshall...

Oh and Alex, do you mind if we don't go into the infamous Eccleshall Road/Eccleshall debate again? It's just going over old ground and winds certain people up.

Yeah, i live in Eccelsall dude. S11 8##, i've lived opposite Pizza Hut for 5 years. The are loads of houses around here with various "for let" signs outside them from student letting companies.

I agree Rich,we don't need to start on about where Eccelsall is...

I still stand by the fact that there ARE students in this area. Thompson Road for instance has plenty

There are loads of students in the Ecclesall Road/Hunters Bar/Crookes/Broomhill areas.

There are not loads of students in the Ecclesall area.

There, no need to argue anymore.

Originally posted by johnjo
Yeah, i live in Eccelsall dude. S11 8##, i've lived opposite Pizza Hut for 5 years. The are loads of houses around here with various "for let" signs outside them from student letting companies.

I agree Rich,we don't need to start on about where Eccelsall is...

I still stand by the fact that there ARE students in this area. Thompson Road for instance has plenty

Agent Gypo sums it up nicely enough above, but to clarify, you DON'T live in Ecclesall - get your Sheffield A-Z map out and you'll see Ecclesall is a good few miles up the road. You live on/near Ecclesall Road, so-called because it leads to Ecclesall. Ecclesall itself is actually a quiet, leafy suburb, a far cry from the buzzing, student vibrancy of Ecclesall Road.

I don't know about students forcing people out from Walkley, but the recent fatal stabing and the shooting is making me think of moving on.

Originally posted by JFKvsNixon
I don't know about students forcing people out from Walkley, but the recent fatal stabing and the shooting is making me think of moving on.

where ??

Originally posted by Internetowl
but they are still student scum ...they should learn respect like we did as kids.

tautology?

[edit] No, I always get these the wrong way round.

An oxymoron then? Well...self contradictory will have to suffice.

I'm a student myself and although not all students are scum of the earth i have met quite a few who are.
For example one of my flatmates is what i consider to be one o the lowest forms of life on earth.
He doesn't go to lectures, he spends most of the day smoking weed, goes out at night brings back what sounds like half of sheffield most nights and has partys till 5am. He smokes weed in the kitchen encourages his friends to do the same, he trashes the flat and eats other peoples food. He is also extremly loud and offensive as are his mates. He has caused fights after nights out and is a complete waster. How he got into uni i will never know.
The sooner he gets thrown out the better.
This is obviously not applicable to all students as alot of the people i've met are lovely, fabulous people. Its just the minority that brings us down.

as a graduate who has lived in halls, lived in crookes, moved back to my home town of stafford then came back to sheffield 2 years ago- i have to agree with absolutely everything everybody has said.

halls- the epitomy of the pits. 400 young people, who have never been unleashed on society before- hideous in every sense.

crookes- i liked living there the second year i was there. the first year was on clementson road- and the noise from school road travelled badly. at that point the road was made up 50/50 of students and families- i have no idea if the families are still there. the second year i lived on toftwood road, so quiet and peaceful (apart from when the BBC used to turn up at theball! lol) i loved crookes because of the community feel to the area- sadly, i feel the influx of students may have put pay to that.

then i went back to stafford and lived in one of the roughest bits of town- ok, not so bad by sheffield standards. but the point is the late night noise was worse, boy racers testing out they new stereos on the co-op car park, gangs of scallies hanging around the cash point at the co-op at at the bus stop. i didnt feel safe at all.

then i came back to sheffield and moved into leadmill court- loved the location, loved the flat, not so keen on the price, but hated the noise. i could guarantee that most nights i would be woken up by drunken caterwauling in the early hours when the leadmill and crasher kicked out. i hate to say it, most of the noise was not from native sheffielders- the very loud accents gave them away. and with the massive concentration of purpose built housing around there- yup you guessed it!

finally, now i live in hillsborough, just round the corner from the deep end. now its not the students, it the locals. i come home from work at the pub and i catch people using the gennel next to our house as a urinal. drunken football songs after home games. and sunday nights used to be awful- im glad the deep end has shut down. so, where are the students in hillsborough?

everybody is as much to blame as each other. whether you live in a student area or not, the noise and the anti social behaviour is almost always there.

those of you with families who have young children- have you considered how irritating your bawling child might be to someone who has been studying for the last week for important exams (not making a peep to disturb you)?

i dont want to pass blame or anything like that- im just trying to demonstrate that it really isnt just one party in particular.

sophie
x

Well put Sophiec

Back home in Crosby, there is no student population. However, the same things happen, noise at night, people hedge diving etc. The one link to the Sheffield problem is that it's caused by people.

Yes, that's where the problem is; people cause trouble!

I suggest that we get rid of all people and we'll be much happier. :)

Originally posted by matty17
where ??

Here are the links.

From the last 2 months:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4255724.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4464156.stm

From News Years eve 2003:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3096853.stm

sophiec1979I live up Meadowhead way and don't get any of the comments you mentioned above and I'm thankful for it.

I grew up on Gleadless Valley council estate and am aware of anti social behaviour first hand.
However where I live now is quiet, family orientated, safe and comfortable.

We get the odd "boy racer" and I do mean not many of them and I use the term boy racer in it's loosest sense of the word.

I know what you mean that you get noise and bad behaviour everywhere you go. However you can find locations in Sheffield that are not like that and I'm thankful where I am now is one of those places.

Will it stay this way, who knows... but I do know it's good for me and mine right now so I'm happy.

Originally posted by Johnnywarren
I think the problem comes from young people today having no respect for anyone else.

Student or Chav, they all want locking up until they're 35.

And while we're at it, let's lock up anyone else that you don't like the look of. Fascist

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I know what you mean that you get noise and bad behaviour everywhere you go. However you can find locations in Sheffield that are not like that and I'm thankful where I am now is one of those places.

Will it stay this way, who knows... but I do know it's good for me and mine right now so I'm happy.

thats kind of why im a bit disappointed.

when i came back to sheffield i knew i had to live v near a tram route to get to work (easier, quickest, most convenient way to get to work). that meant that broomhill and crookes were out of the question. apart from that, i knew i didnt want to live in the studenty areas a) because of the students (no offence! lol) b) i wanted my working experience of sheffield to be totally different to my student experience

colleagues at work recommended hilssborough to start with- but i opted for city living. i loved it apart from the noise, so i thought hillsborough would be the right place to re-locate to.

it is...mostly. rent is ok, facilities, transport and shops are great. but that same old noise thing keeps cropping up and i dont appreciate my house becoming a 'convenience'.

i dont know, maybe im super sensitive and making a fuss. but i just hoped that where i am now would be different.

as an impoverished graduate (half my wages go on paying off my debts) i cant afford to live in a nice expensive quiet place, i also cant afford to buy a car to allow me to get from my nice quiet place to work, so please, everybody- if youre at hillsborough corner late at night- shhhhh! lol

sophie
x

ps. im only 26- does that mean i need to be locked up too? sh*t, and i thought i was one of the good guys who was trying to bring reason to this thread!

Don't you hate when locals create a racket when you're sleeping? It's so inconsiderate of people to make noise at 11am, they're just not thinking of others.

Originally posted by Slizor
Don't you hate when locals create a racket when you're sleeping? It's so inconsiderate of people to make noise at 11am, they're just not thinking of others.

if that was the case it wouldnt be a problem- except by 11am, ive already been at work for 3 and half hours!

sophie
x

Originally posted by Rich
If they're Uni Graduates, they're ex-students.. emphasis on EX...

Far be it for me to stick up for HIM.. But in this case he's possibly right, there's possibly no students in Eccleshall...

Oh and Alex, do you mind if we don't go into the infamous Eccleshall Road/Eccleshall debate again? It's just going over old ground and winds certain people up.

Going over the same ground,,,now that sounds familiar

Originally posted by sophiec1979
thats kind of why im a bit disappointed.

when i came back to sheffield i knew i had to live v near a tram route to get to work (easier, quickest, most convenient way to get to work). that meant that broomhill and crookes were out of the question. apart from that, i knew i didnt want to live in the studenty areas a) because of the students (no offence! lol) b) i wanted my working experience of sheffield to be totally different to my student experience

colleagues at work recommended hilssborough to start with- but i opted for city living. i loved it apart from the noise, so i thought hillsborough would be the right place to re-locate to.

it is...mostly. rent is ok, facilities, transport and shops are great. but that same old noise thing keeps cropping up and i dont appreciate my house becoming a 'convenience'.

i dont know, maybe im super sensitive and making a fuss. but i just hoped that where i am now would be different.

as an impoverished graduate (half my wages go on paying off my debts) i cant afford to live in a nice expensive quiet place, i also cant afford to buy a car to allow me to get from my nice quiet place to work, so please, everybody- if youre at hillsborough corner late at night- shhhhh! lol

sophie
x

ps. im only 26- does that mean i need to be locked up too? sh*t, and i thought i was one of the good guys who was trying to bring reason to this thread!

it isn;t about living in Hillsbrough or anywhere else it is about WHERE you live in these places. I've lived on School Rd in Crookes (noisy student central) and Forres Rd (peaceful and quiet-apart from the housemates:rolleyes: ) same with Hillsbrough. If you live to near to the main Rd you will get noise and drunkeness.

Originally posted by robbie
it isn;t about living in Hillsbrough or anywhere else it is about WHERE you live in these places. If you live to near to the main Rd you will get noise and drunkeness.

valid point robbie- i do agree and i suppose i just hadnt thought that far ahead.

but the point i was trying to make is that it isnt just students who are responsible for anti social, loutish, drunken behaviour.

sophie
x