Hi there

Just came across some photography by deceased Sheffield photographer Ron Sanderson.

All the pictures were taken of Sheffield in the 60s and 70s, there are Cityscapes, People and loads more.

They are amazing.

www.ronsandersoncollection.com

This website is a must see for the people of Sheffield.

I contacted the website and by all accounts there is a book of his work released next week and his work is being displayed in the newly re furbished Sheffield City Hall on a lifetime exhibition.

Go check it out.

Yes, i would have to agrre they are really good photo's, but as for the prices, maybe not so good????

Yeah perhaps the prices are a little steep but im a big fan of photography and if you compare those size pictures with the average cost of original photographs framed and mounted then the prices are competitive especially regarding the age and hwn they were taken.

I think i might be tempted to purhase a few.

Brillaint photography though, cant believe Sheffield used to look like that.

Definately agree with the fact that its brilliant photography!

And for people like myself who are interested in Old Sheffield, then these pictures are really interesting!

A truly hilarious site... Well, the prices are certainly good for a laugh, anyway! :)

weird reply......each to there own i suppose

Originally posted by Bic0
A truly hilarious site... Well, the prices are certainly good for a laugh, anyway! :)

:D


Originally posted by allseeing
...cant believe Sheffield used to look like that.

And I would expect most of our respected Sheffield elders wouldn't want reminding of it, either!

Outside loo, anyone :|

Originally posted by allseeing
weird reply......each to there own i suppose
My post was a comment, not a reply... Discreetly expressing an opinion and initially refraining from further expressing amazement that there should be punters out there dumb enough to purchase at the prices shown... Plain enough? ;)

Well I'm very interested in how Sheffield once was......they are beautiful photographs but you would have to appreciate good photography or photographs in general.

You would be suprised how many elderly poeple would love to be reminded.

Fantastic photographs.

The grainy black and white gives a perfect feel of how this city used to look and not really that long ago either.

You can smell some of the decay in these photographs and some are quite sad. Good to see Park Square prior to and around the time of the Sheffield Parkway (when will that be 1974?).

There must be thousands of piccies like these in drawers and albums in people's houses - I'd love to see more from 1970 to the early 1980s.

Originally posted by allseeing
Well I'm very interested in how Sheffield once was......they are beautiful photographs but you would have to appreciate good photography or photographs in general.

You would be suprised how many elderly poeple would love to be reminded.
I'd be surprised if many were willing to pay 155 notes per pic to be reminded!!

If you're looking for pics of old Sheffield, you may like to consider purchasing from this (http://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/) site, rather than these rip-off merchants... and saving a great deal of money in the process! ;)


Flippin' typo!

Originally posted by allseeing
Well I'm very interested in how Sheffield once was......they are beautiful photographs but you would have to appreciate good photography or photographs in general.

God knows I love my home city of Sheffield as much as the rest of you, and I am also interested in the history and the geography of the place, but the photographs don't show Sheffield in a particularly positive light; Not only did I have difficulty differentiating photographs between the Cityscape, Building and Decay themes(!), but perhaps the photos contribute to the grey, post-war gloomy image of Sheffield that is held nationally.

I agree some of the scenes are excellent but as to whether they're worth £150 each, perhaps not...


Originally posted by allseeing
You would be suprised how many elderly poeple would love to be reminded.

They're usually the ones who want to bring back National Service :thumbsup:

I think you dont understand the concept. I dont think the photographer is trying to portray Sheffield and the people of anything. I think its just amazing photography. Check out the lighting and detail.

You obviously don't know anything about photography which is not an insult like i probably dont know much about what you do.

Originally posted by allseeing
You obviously don't know anything about photography which is not an insult like i probably dont know much about what you do.

Not really, I'm just very frugal (some may unfairly call me tight)

I took some photographs using a very similar grainy black and white film in 1988. I went down the canal basin and the east end and photographed the dereliction.

The pictures are beautiful and because they're black and white, in a wierd sense, they 'bring to life the decay' of the region, derelict buildings with vegetation sprouting through floors, shattered glass, broken drain-pipes and so on.

Moreover, black and white has an effect of ageing the pictures, making something from 1988 look as if it were photographed twenty years earlier.

I for one appreciate these photographs. Thanks for the link allseeing. When I'm clever enough I'll scan my own pictures and post them on here.

I'd like to think that I know a little about photography... I consider that many of the pics that you appear to value so highly, to me seem to be poorly composed, depressing and unimaginative.

I do know at least enough to be of the opinion that this (http://www.ronsandersoncollection.com/display-photograph.asp?id=104&gallery=2) is not worth twenty times the cost of this (http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s00014) !

But, to each their own... ;)

ADDENDUM... N.B. I'm arguing, not primarily over the quality of the Sanderson pics, nor your appraisal of them, but over the extortionate prices being asked for them!

OMG! Those bring back memories ;)

Not many pics of the Kelvin or hillsborough side of Sheffield though. I remember walking on those hills and looking down over the panorama of a city clouded in smoke.

Eee - by eck! They don't half bring back some memories.

Dragon

I don't know anything about photography - but I like 'em...!

Bico

I just want to get this point across. They aren't just pictures of Sheffield, they are a piece of art. Whether you say they are poor or not is irrelevant.

Have you had your work exhibited in the graves art gallery with over 30,000 people viewing your work and god knows how many more all over the country? Have you just had your work commisioned for the Sheffield City Hall.?Have you got a book released next Friday?

My point is this. Ron Sanderson is Classed by the guild of arts as one of the finest photographers this country has ever seen.

This is why these pictures are more expensive than the average picture.

Dont get me wrong, everyone has their own opinion but you can't take away the fact that Ron Sanderson deserves to be where he is and for you to comment in a negative way just shows your ignorance.

Just got the info from the ronsandersoncollection who are extremelly nice and helpful.

I love those photos. I couldn't care less whether they show Sheffield in a positive light or not. That is the city I remember growing up in - it was bloody good fun, but there was dereliction and wasteland everywhere. (OK, not everywhere. Sheffield had many beautiful parts just as it does now, but let's face it, the city centre was not going to win any beauty contests. It's sometimes amazing to see the environment we lived in and took for granted).

As for the prices, you must make your own judgement - clearly many people can see little or no merit in those pictures and are baffled by the cost. However, you are paying for someone's artistic endeavours, their time, the fact that they were there at that moment and decided to take that picture, and so on. They are worth what you think they are worth, and if that corresponds with the price being asked, then we have a deal. If not, the piece goes unsold. It's the same for all art really.

I'm not saying people have to like this stuff. Just explaining why I don't think £150 for a photograph is necessarily a rip off. Yes if it's some mass produced Athena tripe, but no if it's some guy who took the time and trouble to go out and take that photograph way back when, archive it, and print it to a high standard on high quality paper to order, etc.

Also, I heartily agree with Ousetunes about wanting to see as many Sheffield photos from the seventies as poss - so anyone who's got any, get them online!

Wow, those bring back memories! Particularly the ones of the Duke Street area, Norfolk Park and of Hyde Park Terrace/Walk pre-early 90's rennovation. I remember those water fountains in Norfolk Park really well; used them myself as a kid. And that slide - you'd never get one that high these days. Happy days.

The prices are steep. But remember, they're not just photographs, they're art ;) .

[Edited to add: the previous two posters made the comments about the photographs being art as I was writing the post. Sorry for the repetition.]

eeek ! - there's one of me dad RSC108 :o

and one of Kirky as a lad after he just scoffed a chocolate eclair RSC103 :D

Part of original post by allseeing
---you can't take away the fact that Ron Sanderson deserves to be where he is and for you to comment in a negative way just shows your ignorance.

Just got the info from the ronsandersoncollection who are extremelly nice and helpful.
He deserves to be where he is because art critics say so? Don't make me laugh! I've seen many examples of total garbage praised highly by so-called art critics... Didn't somebody once receive many plaudits from some of these 'experts' for an abstract, before it was revealed that the painting was done by a chimp!

As opposed to showing my ignorance, I'd prefer to think that my honest critique of the material in question shows that I'm capable of forming my own opinion, rather than being swayed as to their worth in monetary terms by the verdicts of others.

Incidentally, if I was retailing these pics at 150 notes, which you can be sure represents a damn healthy mark-up... I would be extremely nice and helpful to anyone who contacted me, if I thought it meant a chance of off-loading them!

Finally, I can't help but wonder how many of those extolling the virtues of the Sanderson pics on this thread are actually intending to buy some... few, if any, I suspect! ... If that's the case, then as I implied in my first post, they're obviously vastly over-priced, commended by experts or not! ;)

Originally posted by allseeing
Have you had your work exhibited in the graves art gallery...

I did! I was six years old at the time, and my family were very proud :)

these are fantastic and i have never seen these before...

i have just logged off as it's upsetting seeing sheffield in its heyday, spotless council estates rising out of the hills, only to be torn down 30 years later....

my dad designed the roof gardens at the bottom of this photo:

http://www.ronsandersoncollection.com/display-photograph.asp?id=98&gallery=4

:(

Originally posted by Damon
.....

Also, I heartily agree with Ousetunes about wanting to see as many Sheffield photos from the seventies as poss - so anyone who's got any, get them online!

there are some of mine from the eighties and nineties here:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b171/sheffieldarchives/

:)

Originally posted by allseeing
weird reply......each to there own i suppose

an odd question, but are you dean honer?

I've recently started dabbling in photography and i think these pictures are fantastic!
I am partially colour blind and have always been drawn towards black&white pictures/photos.The Sanderson pictures have opened my eyes to a whole new area of photography.
Thank you allseeing for posting the link :)

pete_fcs:
Great pictures you have there. I have often looked at certain items/places you have taken pictures of without ever thinking they would make nice pictures 8)

Keep the links coming peeps....

1) Great post and inspirational photographs. Of particular interest to me as I am also a keep photographer whose chief subjects are Sheffield people and places.


2) There are quite a few comments about the photographs being over-priced. They are not - in so far as they are priced similar to other examples of photographic art.

If photographers sold thousands of prints, they would charge a couple of quid a shot. As they don't - they often only sell maybe one of a collection of photographs they charge more.

A lot of these photo's are just overpriced snapshots. some are good and some are poor. It's an old trick, that If you bang a big price on something average, it make it more desirable.

Just been looking at them again, and I couldn't help noticing that almost all of them now seem to be £89.99!

And they come framed and mounted - I really don't think that's bad at all. <OPENS WALLET...>

LOL! Most reduced to 60% of the original asking-price!
Someone must have been reading the forum...
Perhaps they're having them printed at 'Boots' now?
Or have the 'experts' changed their mind about the artistic and hence the monetary value of them? :D

I don't think £150 was unreasonable for those pics, but I must admit, it's quite amusing that they're now so much cheaper. Maybe if we carry this thread on a bit, we can get 'em down to a tenner... :D

These photos by Ron Sanderson are great but also are these http://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/ and they are a hell of a lot cheaper. Dont forget all you are paying for are prints it is sad that Mr Sanderson is no longer with us, it does make me wonder who is trying to cash in on his talent and name. I will stick with://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/ there is a better variation and the price is much more to my liking.

Never thought of myself as a piece of Art wonder if i can claim a cut, not sure of the decay bit though does it mean me or the Oddfellows, rsc48

Originally posted by vidster
.......

pete_fcs:
Great pictures you have there. I have often looked at certain items/places you have taken pictures of without ever thinking they would make nice pictures 8)

.....

thanks vidster!

there's something exciting about trying to make the ordinairy look special....it's a sort of sheffield/ pulp thing!

have you seen peter hill's book? fantasticly moody/ deep pics of everyday sheffield e.g. people stood behind the fish counter at castle market, but somehow looking fascinating

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by pete_fcs


have you seen peter hill's book? fantasticly moody/ deep pics of everyday sheffield e.g. people stood behind the fish counter at castle market, but somehow looking fascinating

:thumbsup:

I'll make a note of that for when kblade goes to the library next week :wink:

I suppose it all depends on what you are looking for. If you just want pictures old Sheffield then buy the pictures at Picture Sheffield.

All those old pictures at Picture Sheffield will have been taken by some photographer over the years but you buy them not knwoing who took them and what the artist stood for.

I personally would prefer to buy pictures that are authenticated and to own a picture by a respected photographer mean much more than any old picture.

Not all the pictures Ron Sanderson took relate to Sheffield. As a photographer connisseur I believe the Sanderson photographs are infinately better than any i have seen on Picture Sheffield.

That's just my opinion.

As for the prices coming down, I doubt The Ron Sanderson Collection would take the word of only a few posters on here to drop their prices by that amount. It seems with the Ron Sanderson name taking off, why not provide more reasonale priced photographs.

The prices now are fantastic. They come framed, mounted and are 18 inch by 12 inch and are authenticated.

I have purchased 4 pictures and can't wait to see the product. I'll update you when I have them.

Originally posted by pete_fcs


have you seen peter hill's book? fantasticly moody/ deep pics of everyday sheffield e.g. people stood behind the fish counter at castle market, but somehow looking fascinating

:thumbsup:

http://www.petehill.demon.co.uk/portrait_of_sheffield/home.htm

Nice pictures.

Originally posted by Dear_Ladies
http://www.petehill.demon.co.uk/portrait_of_sheffield/home.htm

Nice pictures.

Great find. Nice one :thumbsup:

Hi, Just read the comments that have been posted over the last few days regarding the Ron Sanderson Photographs and feel I have to add my point of view.

I quite agree with allseeing that these are not just "pics" as someone stated but amazing pieces of art. Each photograph has captured Sheffield City Centre exactly as it was back then. Sheffield was a strong industrial city which was devasted during the war. During the 1960's -70's our parents & grandparents worked hard to rebuild this city & make it what it is today and the suggetion that they would want to forget those times is a complete insult!

I live in Sheffield City Centre & have purchased 11 pieces from the collection it is wonderful to be able to look out of my window & see how much Sheffield has changed.

I'm not claiming to be an expert about photography but I do know class when I see it & this collection is pure class all the way.

Part of original post by Number15
--I live in Sheffield City Centre & have purchased 11 pieces from the collection it is wonderful to be able to look out of my window & see how much Sheffield has changed.

I'm not claiming to be an expert about photography but I do know class when I see it & this collection is pure class all the way.
Let's hope that both you and 'Allseeing' knew enough about 'class' when you saw it, to wait until the price dropped before you ordered!

Or, as Allseeing puts it, until the Ron Sanderson name took off and they provided more reasonably-priced photographs and the prices became "fantastic" (which indicates to me that he considers that the original prices were unreasonable!) ... Although IMHO, the prices were already fantastic, in the original sense of the word... i.e "Based on or existing only in fantasy; unreal:" ;)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bic0
[BOr]Let's hope that both you and 'Allseeing' knew enough about 'class' when you saw it, to wait until the price dropped before you ordered!

Actually I purchased at the original price & was more than happy to do so, the fact the prices are now lower is of no relevance to me.

Unlike you who seems to know nothing about the artist who you are so happy to critisise I contacted the Ron Sanderson Collection before purchasing and asked for some more information about Ron. I discovered that this was a man who lived for photography and loved nothing more than to photograph the city he grew up in. The website and forthcoming book are a tribute to a man who was a fantastic artist!

These photographs are not just "snapshots" but photographs taken and developed with great care & passion and that is worth its weight in gold!!!!

I agree completely with number15.

Bico

You say you don't like the Sanderson photographs, well you seem to be spending alot of time on the website plus posting messages on here.

What the hell has it got to do with you if I, or anyone else purchase these photographs. If you don't like them that's fine.

I personally believe that you are secretly facinated by the Sanderson collection, perhaps a little envious.

Why don't you go to the Sheffield City Hall in mid december to see the lifetime exhibition, or perhaps buy the Sanderson book out Friday 25th november in all book retailers.

I think you might enjoy it.

One things for sure, you aint going to forget Ron Sanderson in a hurry, that's the main thing.

allseeing, number 15

i have been reading your comments on ron sanderson with interest, and would appreciate any thoughts you have on these photographs of mine of kelvin flats:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/sheffieldarchives/kelvin%20flats/webreadykelvinandhydepark.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/sheffieldarchives/kelvin%20flats/webreadykelvinbw.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/sheffieldarchives/kelvin%20flats/KELVINANDUPPERTHORPE.jpg

thanks

pete

I think you captured the picture really well, forgot about the Kelvin flats.

Every photographer has their own style and I can see why you really appreciated the Sanderson photographs. You have a passion for Sheffield and for photography.

Where I believe Ron Sanderson became critically acclaimed is not just in his many pictures of Sheffield but his eye for detail and his abstact concepts. The lighting and effects he has on his photographs is something very special, quite genius really. His people photographs are quite sensational and its those photographs that really caught my attention. It's as if he knew what people would see in years to come. It's not just the city scapes and bulidings, he captured a moment in time of the people who lived in sheffield. I haven't seen any other photographs like this.

I don't know of any photographer now what is doing what Sanderson did back then. In 30 years time it would be interesting to look back on pictures of Sheffield, not just the city and building but the people who lived there.

I think this is why people are taking a massive interest in the sanderson collection.

Also have you checked out the F.A.Q.

The camera he used was a hasselblad.

Wow

That's one of the most expensive cameras and what was used to take pictures on the moon

Allseeing & Number15...
Part of original post by Number15 --Unlike you who seems to know nothing about the artist who you are so happy to critisise I contacted the Ron Sanderson Collection before purchasing and asked for some more information about Ron. I discovered that this was a man who lived for photography and loved nothing more than to photograph the city he grew up in.
If the above is the sum total of your knowledge of Mr. Sanderson, then as a matter of fact, I know considerably more about the gentleman than you do... You see, I took the time to read the brief biography of him on the site.

Part of original post by allseeing --You say you don't like the Sanderson photographs, well you seem to be spending alot of time on the website plus posting messages on here.
How, pray tell, would you know how much time I've spent on the website? Posting messages on here is not restricted only to those who extoll the virtues of the Sanderson collection and, to borrow your own words "What the hell has it got to do with you..." how much time I spend on the site, or for that matter, elsewhere?

Part of original post by allseeing What the hell has it got to do with you if I, or anyone else purchase these photographs. If you don't like them that's fine.
It has nothing the hell to do with me whatsover if you or anyone else chooses to purchase the photographs and I don't believe that I've said that it has... However, the fact that I don't particularly like them, far from being as you say fine, seems to offend to some extent...

Part of original post by allseeing I personally believe that you are secretly facinated by the Sanderson collection, perhaps a little envious.
Not envious, no, I see little to be envious of... But I freely admit to being fascinated by the ronsandersoncollection.com site and the ones who run it.

Things I'd like to know...

1. Who is this organisation?
2. Where are they situated?
3. Why is there neither an address nor a telephone number on the site?
4. Are the pics copyright R.Sanderson?
5. Who does the profit go to?
6. The site FAQ asks "Are the pictures photographs or prints?" ... The supplied answer being... "Photographs" Now how can this be? Surely all photographs are, by virtue of being sourced from the negative, in actual fact, only prints? ... I fail to see how a photograph, displayed in a frame, can be anything other than a photographic reproduction, in other words, a print.
7. I note that the site only accepts payment via PayPal, which to me smacks of unprofessionalism, after all, almost anybody can accept PayPal payments, whereas established businesses are vetted before being permitted to accept credit cards etc. Is this some extremely modest and new, one-man organisation perhaps?
8. I also note that of the only two links given on the Sanderson site, one is to this forum... Are you sure that the recent price reduction had no connection with comments passed on here, Allseeing? ;)

There are also a few facts that intrigue me... Call me a cynic...

1) It intrigues me that... Allseeing, a 29 yr-old web designer, who moved to Sheffield in 1995 and who has so far posted only 28 times in the last 18 months, 11 of those posts being to this thread, should, after only living here for the last 10 years, be so interested and impressed by pics of old Sheffield that he happens to run across whilst surfing the Net. So impressed in fact that he posts here, praising them abundantly and encouraging others to go to the site... In fact he's so enthusiastic about it that he feels the need to cross-post an almost identical message to the 'Sheffield History & Expats' section too.

2) It intrigues me that... Number15, a new member with only 2 posts under his belt as of this date, both of them to this thread, should suddenly appear bang on queue to support Allseeing, the prime enthusiast of the Sanderson site and to announce that he has bought 11 of these pics at the full price. Moreover he seems remarkably unperturbed by the fact that the prices have just dropped to 60% of what he paid for them... Had I spent over £600 more than I needed to on 11 pics, I would at the very least, be a little miffed!

3) It intrigues me that... Despite the fact that according to Allseeing, "Ron Sanderson is Classed by the guild of arts as one of the finest photographers this country has ever seen.", Google doesn't seem to have heard of him as a person, inputting "ron sanderson sheffield photographer", as I did, resulted in only 4 'hits'. Two hits referred to this thread and the one in the 'expats' section, one hit linked to the Ron Sanderson site, not unsurprisingly and the last one linked to an auction for one of his pics, currently running on eBay.

4) It intrigued me that... On looking at the current auction on eBay, here (http://search.ebay.co.uk/ron-sanderson_W0QQfromZR40) ... It has all the initial appearance of a private auction, until you read it more carefully and see that the seller is charging the current price for the pic, linking to the Sanderson site and offering the same delivery times as the site... All is explained when, by using WHOIS , you see that the seller on eBay... 'johncolgrave1973' has a name that bears a striking similarity to that of John Colgrave of Sheffield, who registered the site, 'ronsandersoncollection.com'.... This would, to all outward appearances, to be not an attempt to sell on eBay, but a way to obtain free publicity and direct people towards the site.

Part of original post by allseeing One things for sure, you aint going to forget Ron Sanderson in a hurry, that's the main thing.
More to the point, if the people involved with the Sanderson site read this thread... And I have little doubt that they do... Then to paraphrase your remark... They ain't going to forget me in a hurry! ... To me there seems to be a distinct flavour of the fable of 'The Emperors' New Clothes' about some of the contributions to this thread. ;)

Great pics! I love photography.

Fantastic reply bic0, well researched, love it when someone takes the time to prove themselves :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Bic0
Allseeing & Number15...

If the above is the sum total of your knowledge of Mr. Sanderson, then as a matter of fact, I know considerably more about the gentleman than you do... You see, I took the time to read the brief biography of him on the site.


How, pray tell, would you know how much time I've spent on the website? Posting messages on here is not restricted only to those who extoll the virtues of the Sanderson collection and, to borrow your own words "What the hell has it got to do with you..." how much time I spend on the site, or for that matter, elsewhere?


It has nothing the hell to do with me whatsover if you or anyone else chooses to purchase the photographs and I don't believe that I've said that it has... However, the fact that I don't particularly like them, far from being as you say fine, seems to offend to some extent...


Not envious, no, I see little to be envious of... But I freely admit to being fascinated by the ronsandersoncollection.com site and the ones who run it.

Things I'd like to know...

1. Who is this organisation?
2. Where are they situated?
3. Why is there neither an address nor a telephone number on the site?
4. Are the pics copyright R.Sanderson?
5. Who does the profit go to?
6. The site FAQ asks "Are the pictures photographs or prints?" ... The supplied answer being... "Photographs" Now how can this be? Surely all photographs are, by virtue of being sourced from the negative, in actual fact, only prints? ... I fail to see how a photograph, displayed in a frame, can be anything other than a photographic reproduction, in other words, a print.
7. I note that the site only accepts payment via PayPal, which to me smacks of unprofessionalism, after all, almost anybody can accept PayPal payments, whereas established businesses are vetted before being permitted to accept credit cards etc. Is this some extremely modest and new, one-man organisation perhaps?
8. I also note that of the only two links given on the Sanderson site, one is to this forum... Are you sure that the recent price reduction had no connection with comments passed on here, Allseeing? ;)

There are also a few facts that intrigue me... Call me a cynic...

1) It intrigues me that... Allseeing, a 29 yr-old web designer, who moved to Sheffield in 1995 and who has so far posted only 28 times in the last 18 months, 11 of those posts being to this thread, should, after only living here for the last 10 years, be so interested and impressed by pics of old Sheffield that he happens to run across whilst surfing the Net. So impressed in fact that he posts here, praising them abundantly and encouraging others to go to the site... In fact he's so enthusiastic about it that he feels the need to cross-post an almost identical message to the 'Sheffield History & Expats' section too.

2) It intrigues me that... Number15, a new member with only 2 posts under his belt as of this date, both of them to this thread, should suddenly appear bang on queue to support Allseeing, the prime enthusiast of the Sanderson site and to announce that he has bought 11 of these pics at the full price. Moreover he seems remarkably unperturbed by the fact that the prices have just dropped to 60% of what he paid for them... Had I spent over £600 more than I needed to on 11 pics, I would at the very least, be a little miffed!

3) It intrigues me that... Despite the fact that according to Allseeing, "Ron Sanderson is Classed by the guild of arts as one of the finest photographers this country has ever seen.", Google doesn't seem to have heard of him as a person, inputting "ron sanderson sheffield photographer", as I did, resulted in only 4 'hits'. Two hits referred to this thread and the one in the 'expats' section, one hit linked to the Ron Sanderson site, not unsurprisingly and the last one linked to an auction for one of his pics, currently running on eBay.

4) It intrigued me that... On looking at the current auction on eBay, here (http://search.ebay.co.uk/ron-sanderson_W0QQfromZR40) ... It has all the initial appearance of a private auction, until you read it more carefully and see that the seller is charging the current price for the pic, linking to the Sanderson site and offering the same delivery times as the site... All is explained when, by using WHOIS , you see that the seller on eBay... 'johncolgrave1973' has a name that bears a striking similarity to that of John Colgrave of Sheffield, who registered the site, 'ronsandersoncollection.com'.... This would, to all outward appearances, to be not an attempt to sell on eBay, but a way to obtain free publicity and direct people towards the site.


More to the point, if the people involved with the Sanderson site read this thread... And I have little doubt that they do... Then to paraphrase your remark... They ain't going to forget me in a hurry! ... To me there seems to be a distinct flavour of the fable of 'The Emperors' New Clothes' about some of the contributions to this thread. ;) Well done Bic I just read thre thread and instantly thought - those pictures are pretty crap. A lot of stereotypical and nostalgic shots of a sheffield. Anyone who'd buys them is a fool who is going to get conned!

Allseeing is obviously a con man and if the mods are reading this will ban him and send the thread to room 101!

And a message to Ron the dead photographer - when up in heaven, shoot something original. Angels on clouds are so old-hat!

Here Here!

Well said Bic0. Nice research.

I too like yourself + miniminch see nothing creative, original and definitely not artistic in those photographs.

I thought a couple of them were ok but that was all... just ok.

As stated that the photographer is dead I find myself wondering if he would have approved of the price as IMO it is pretty steep.

I have some lovely art around my home. Including a print of a Dali classic and that cost me £29.99 framed and is twice the size of the prints on that site and a 3rd of the price.

I know which I prefer.

It's nice to see that this has turned out to be a personal crusade towards me.

a. I may not have that many posts on the forum, I tend to post sporadically which is totally my right, and if I posted 11 times on this thread out of 18 it is because i felt that it is uneccesary for anyone to discredit something that has captured sheffield so well. It is my opinion and I am entitled to it, just like anyone else. And I also wanted to become more active on this forum which I havent been for a while.

b. I have been a member of this forum much longer than bic0 who joined 3 weeks ago.

c. Yes i am a web designer, so what? So are many other people who earn a living and maybe I have a good eye for art / design. And yes I have lived in Sheff for 11 years now which entitles me to call it my city too as I consider it home :)

d. I have no vested interest in that partifcular website, so maybe the best thing you could do is send them an email regarding these issues since they seem to be of great concern to you ??

e. I am not a conman, if you are going to call me that miniminch, then i suggest you get proof as it is slanderous and there is no need for insults or accusations. Who exactly am I trying to con? And with what? Have I urged anyone to buy the pictures? By your comment then all art sold in art galleries is a con too...And what difference is it to me whether people decide to do so or not? (Rhetorical question...) I really have no concern over what anyone has on their living room walls. Maybe you should be banned for dragging my name through the mud instead.

I suggest the moderators close this thread and maybe warn the perpetrator of the slanderous comment because this has become ridiculous really. I thought the whole point of starting threads was for people to engage in discussion, not to be called a conman which is totally unwarranted, or to engage in hostile attitudes or a personal attack. This subject is closed as far as I am concerned.

OK folks, let's let this one cool off a little, please.

We should be able to debate stuff without name calling. Please chill out and focus on the issues not the personalities.

Thanks,

Joe

Originally posted by allseeing
It's nice to see that this has turned out to be a personal crusade towards me.
Allseeing...
Speaking for myself, which is all I am able to do, please understand that I bear no personal animosity in any way, shape or form towards either yourself or your fellow enthusiast, Number15, nor in fact, towards anyone else on this forum... There's no personal crusade as far as I'm concerned... Life's too short for that! ;)

Both you and No.15 made vaguely antagonistic comments towards me when responding to a previous post of mine, yourself more so than No.15... I reciprocated in a similar vein, being slightly less courteous in my reply to you than I was in my reply to your fellow enthusiast... Having answered you both, I then posed a series of eight questions in response to your assertion that it was your belief that I was "secretly facinated by the Sanderson collection, perhaps a little envious.". This was in order to establish that it was the site and its' personnel and not the collection that fascinated me... None of those questions have so far been answered, by the way...

To further expound on the reasons for my fascination, I followed the questions with a list of four publicly available facts which intrigued me... Adding what I believe to be legitimate comment to facts 2 & 4. At no point did I make any libellous remarks about yourself or anyone else.

As far as I'm concerned, the interaction between ourselves on this thread is a discussion of the merit of the photographs in question, not a personal vendetta...

As I see it, you subscribe to the belief that the photographs in the Sanderson collection have considerable artistic quality and value, an opinion that appears to be reinforced in no small way by what the 'experts' have apparently said about them. I disagree strongly because I believe that...

a) A photograph, whilst it may be aesthetically pleasing to some and can no doubt display evidence of the skill and experience of the photographer, can in no way be termed 'art' as the paintings of Breugel, Rembrandt, Renoir, etc., are termed art. It's art only in the fact that it displays the skill or 'art' of the photographer. To label the end-product as art, is a subterfuge used by the 'Art Establishment', to enhance its critical worth and hence its value, in my opinion.

b) The particular photographs that are under present discussion, are by no means as spectacularly remarkable, as you would have us believe from your keen endorsement of them. A brief look at some of his own photographs, linked to by Pete_fcs on this thread, shows in my opinion a far greater grasp of composition, observation and the use and understanding of perspective than many of those by R.Sanderson do... That is of course, a personal opinion, rather than fact, tastes vary.

In summary, I'm not denigrating your taste nor am I stating categorically that you are wrong in your appraisal of the Sanderson collection and its' artistic merit and worth... But I am stating that I strongly disagree with you... And hopefully explaining why.

Regards, Bic0...

Those Sanderson photos are pretty average, the idiot that spent £1650 on them (if you believe him) would have been better off using it to buy a bloody good camera and having a go himself.

I don't want to get personal but....

Just out of interest I typed "allseeing sheffield" into google. Just down the page was this:

http://www.virtualpromote.com/apps/gethigh.forums/action::profile/userid::allseeing

"Name: John". Hmmm....and this designer called allseeing has a website listed....www.casinopowerguide.co.uk

A quick whois search on the site reveals it to be registered to one John Colgrave. A similar whois on www.ronsandersoncollection.co.uk reveals this also to be registered to one John Colgrave!

Still say you've no connection to the site? It's not exactly the crime of the century to promote your own site on the forum without saying it's yours, but it's a bit much when you start denying it when you're caught out and threatening legal action and so on.

This thread has taken quite a dramatic turn in the last day or two. I personally think the photo's are brilliant.

However.........
Originally posted by allseeing


I have purchased 4 pictures and can't wait to see the product. I'll update you when I have them.
Originally posted by Number15

I live in Sheffield City Centre & have purchased 11 pieces from the collection it is wonderful to be able to look out of my window & see how much Sheffield has changed.

I'm not claiming to be an expert about photography but I do know class when I see it & this collection is pure class all the way.

I don't see how any of these statements can be true after what Bic0 and Dear_Ladies have pointed out today.
I know some people don't like it but i love the way the members of this forum almost seem to 'look out' for each other and point out when something is a miss.

On another note it states a Hasselblad was used. I am personally astounded that this camera could produce bad photos... but its the composure and everything that makes the photo good not the camera.

I honestly think that there are better/ cheaper prints than these.

Like vidster I agree that this is a forum where we all try and look after each other where possible and give our own opinions.

Allseeing you seem to be taking a lot of the comments about the quality of prints personally and I don't understand why that is. Many people don't like Dali but I love his work... and people not agreeing with me wouldn't stop me buying it.

Chill out ! :thumbsup:

Originally posted by allseeing


d. I have no vested interest in that partifcular website, so maybe the best thing you could do is send them an email regarding these issues since they seem to be of great concern to you ??

e. I am not a conman, if you are going to call me that miniminch, then i suggest you get proof as it is slanderous and there is no need for insults or accusations. Who exactly am I trying to con? And with what? Have I urged anyone to buy the pictures? ...And what difference is it to me whether people decide to do so or not? (Rhetorical question...) I really have no concern over what anyone has on their living room walls.



Some more statements that can't be true.:)

How do I clarify....

a. yes I did design this site, as well as others for the owner of that website, and well as many others for other people! I got paid and that is where my interest finished in a financial sense.

b. yes I did purchase 4 pictures but I did so directly, not through the website, and I am waiting for them to come.

c. the website isn't mine, and I am not John Colgrave. He is the owner of the websites above as well as others I believe.

d. i didnt want to make out as if i was spamming the forum because of the above - so for that i appologise.

e. I do take offence at being called a conman because I am not. All I wanted to do was show people the photos because i thought they may have been of some interest. I never said 'buy them!'

f. bic0...fair do's. i respect your opinion, and it's all cool. I didnt get annoyed at you, i got annoyed at the other poster for the name calling. but what makes art is a never ending discussion! it's all subjective like you say let's leave it at that. and also, i could have answered some of your questions but really it's not up to me to clarify anything of what you mentioned as my involvement has only been getting the site up and running.

g. i never said anything about legal action, for god's sake! i just said it's slanderous to make those accusations, and not very nice.

So I hope to have clarified certain things and i appologise to the ron sanderson collection publicly becuase it's their name that has been battered and i just thought (erroneously!) that i was helping out with some promotion. I just opened my big trap when i should have left things alone from the beginning...maybe not even started the thread!

Finally i dont see the basis of carrying on this discussion except to mention how fantastically designed the website is!!! lol :)

Originally posted by allseeing
...maybe not even started the thread!



You've got that right...

Nice looking site though, I'll give you that.

Thank you Allseeing, for explaining your involvement in the site... "Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive", eh? :)

And yes, I have to say that in my opinion it is a well-designed site, clear and concise and pleasing to the eye in the way it's laid out, credit to you where credit is due.

I would like to add though, by way of constructive criticism, that apart from the obvious omissions of information that I've already questioned, I feel that it would be much improved by titling each picture and detailing where and when it was taken...

...And I still can't help but wonder if Number15 has the initals of J.C. ;)

No I Dont Have The Initials J.C I Am A Woman And My Initials Are K.L..............................

Originally posted by allseeing
I think you captured the picture really well, forgot about the Kelvin flats.

Every photographer has their own style and I can see why you really appreciated the Sanderson photographs. You have a passion for Sheffield and for photography.

......

thanks allseeing for the encouraging comments!

i have a load more on my www below, which make better use of the harsh light you get in winter...low sun, early long shadows etc.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b171/sheffieldarchives/?sc=5

i also have many good ones of people at the markets and at bus stops, although i am reluctant to put them on as the people in them might not like it!

pete

Originally posted by allseeing
Also have you checked out the F.A.Q.

The camera he used was a hasselblad.

Wow

That's one of the most expensive cameras and what was used to take pictures on the moon

i've often thought of buying one, and looking at ron sanderson's and how sharp they are i'm tempted, although it would need insuring!!!

i use a yashica t4, a fantastic but cheap-looking compact 35mm, bought in 1990, with a carl zeiss lens.

it has a second twin-lens style viewfinder on the top of the camera, useful for holding the camera at a different angle, or taking a picture from upstairs on a bus without people staring at you!

:)

Originally posted by Bic0
....A brief look at some of his own photographs, linked to by Pete_fcs on this thread, shows in my opinion a far greater grasp of composition, observation and the use and understanding of perspective than many of those by R.Sanderson do... That is of course, a personal opinion, rather than fact, tastes vary.

.........

blimey!

do you wanna be my agent!!!???

:thumbsup:

Made me laugh today... I saw THIS (http://www.ronsandersoncollection.com/display-photograph.asp?id=90&gallery=4) photo from the collection reproduced exactly the same but in colour and with a black cab as the car coming up the street. It was even the same street (about half a mile from where i live).

Dear All,

Its fun to see that my old dad can still cause a stir long after he died.

I cant answer any of of your questions and have nothing to do with the site but I love it and I'm glad his work didn't die with him.

BTW he didnt take em with a hasselblad. He didnt even get the hasselblad until the late 1980's so thats one technical inaccuracy dealt with but thats not a criticism of whoever did the site, they are real stars!! Still remember sitting in Joe Scarboroughs kitchen watching him paint, it only came back to me when I saw the photograph. I faintly remember being in the Graves gallery looking at dads pictures. I would have been no more than a toddler but I can still feel the electricity!

Well done whoever you are. BTW I love the book too. I was a very unexpected christmas present.

Jon Sanderson

Following a link off these forums I found the amazing photographic work of Ron Sanderson.

Most of the images are from my neck of the woods, Park Hill, Hydepark, Duke Street, Skye Edge etc.

I can work out the location of most of the images but one is really winding me up, I should know the location as I recognise the cast iron bollards, I keep thinking that it was the steps that went down through the old flats on Bernard Street, but from memory they were straight.

http://www.ronsandersoncollection.com/display-photograph.asp?id=43&gallery=1

PS Anyone got the Ron Sanderson book as mentioned on that site?

ron sanderson is one of my favourite sheffield photographers, along with peter hill, david bocking, andy brown, mozaz deep and stephen mcclarence...although one or two of ron sanderson's, such as norfolk park, are my all time favourite sheffield pics.

i hope my little lad will continue to see my own pics of sheffield knocking about in books and stuff long after i'm gone!

(see my site below!)

:thumbsup:

there are some of mine from the eighties and nineties here: http://photobucket.com/albums/b171/sheffieldarchives/
:)

Excellent stuff if I may say so. Went through the entire 55 and love the picture taken of the Wicker from under the arches. Also appreciate Church Street. Came over to Sheffield a few weeks ago and took one from the opposite side of the road, featuring the Cathedral when it wasn’t hidden by tree leaves. Again, excellent work — and of particular interest to many Forumers would be the Hole In The Road. Lot’s mention it although they have never seen it. Might be an idea to give them a view of it.

Excellent stuff if I may say so. Went through the entire 55 and love the picture taken of the Wicker from under the arches.......

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/sheffieldarchives/WICKER.jpg

thanks peterw!

there are over 200 pictures if you click on the blue sub-album titles ("parson cross" etc).

:)

sorry for poaching ron sanderson's thread.....mods feels free to shove all this onto my own thread here!:

http://sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=59850&highlight=photos

yeah, got the book, very good.some excellant shots of old sheffield. the artist/photographer has passed away but left some good memories behind.Shame i never met him because i'm also ron sanderson

not sure, but are those steps the ones leading down from the old main post office on flat street (fitzallen sq) going down to ponds forge

Just read some of the comments by various folk including the ones by bico, We live in a democrecy where all are able to have and voice their opinions without the risk of being persecuted, Bico like the rest of us is entitled to such an opinion,However it would be nice in my opinion if Bico diverted his writing /critic talent to photography, he could then show us how images that i'm sure wev'e all enjoyed could perhaps be better portraid to the enjoyment of even more like minded people..I'm not a photographer but do appreciate looking at pictures etc taken by people who are able to capture not just an image but the essence and memories from ones past...I for one am very please with my namesakes efforts

really not
i also like more simple

and thats how i can remember sheffield not like it is now just a complete mess I still think the old sheffield was the best, all these new buildings what are being put up are just a blot on the landscape, there is know character in them take the old rag & tag market you could buy anything in that market from live stock like hens, pigeons, and so forth I bet there is not many on here who can remember the big brass weighting scales that was in the old rag & tag market. I just wished I was taking photos of old sheffield when I was younger they would be brilliant to look back on now, just like them of ron sanderson took. i grew up in sheffield when it use to be like that so it did bring back some memories of the old sheffield that I knew.I will have to see about buying his book as I am now trying to get a collection of the old sheffield what I knew I need to take them to scotland when I move.

bigkev

i agree about the importance of taking pictures of things like the rag and tag.

of all the thousands of pictures i've taken over the past 30 years, the most interesting ones are also the most ordinairy, e.g. people going about their everyday business.

ron sanderson seems to have had a gut instinct for capturing something while it was still there, as if he knew everything was about to change.

pete

:)

For what it's worth I'd say that many of the posters on this thread have a verystrong emotional connection to the scenes portrayed in these photos,
I have no connection to these places, past or present and I look at them just as photographic records of Sheffield's history.
As photos (they are not works of art) they seem to me, with a few exceptions, to be just average, anybody could have taken them.
To an outsider there is something lacking in them and I think that in most of them the composition is poor , your just eye wanders over the scenes with no central point to pull you into the picture.
They are snapshots in the same way as many family and holiday photos are, interesting as records of how things were not great art.

My 2 pennyworth

.....your just eye wanders over the scenes with no central point to pull you into the picture.
They are snapshots ....

My 2 pennyworth

i agrere that your eye does wander over the scene, but i do enjoy the way ron sanderson's are composed.

some of my own photo's of sheffield are badly composed or cluttered, but i like to put enough in the picture sometimes to let the eye wander over it...

e.g. this one of mine:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b171/sheffieldarchives/fargateii.jpg

I haven't looked at the photographs yet. But I used to knock about with Ronnie before I got married. I had studied graphic design at Sheffield College of Art, and part of the course included photography. My mum got talking to him one night, and I showed him my work. We became gr8 friends. A bunch of us used to meet up at 5.30 on a Saturday in the Earl Francis. From memory Ron lived on Sky Edge rd I think. He came to my wedding and did our photo album as a present. A real gentlemen. We lost touch after I got married and moved away down south. Knowing Ron as I do he would have been pleased his work has been so praised, and probably laughed about it as well. As I remember it he wanted his work to be seen by the people of Sheffield in all its glory, but in the early 70's it was just a dream. RIP Ron.