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Can the head of the Birmingham mosque still deny that the bombings were anything to do with British muslims.... he probably will.

Originally posted by Sheffair1
Can the head of the Birmingham mosque still deny that the bombings were anything to do with British muslims.... he probably will.

i hope the suicide bomber burns in hell....full stop.

why do they see themselves as being martyrs?? Surely god wouldn't find this the right thing to do???

Originally posted by ianbrownfan
i hope the suicide bomber burns in hell....full stop.

why do they see themselves as being martyrs?? Surely god wouldn't find this the right thing to do???

Allah rewards them with 70 virgins in heaven, or so they believe. 'Analysis' on Radio 4, last night, gave a very interesting insight into the mindset of these people. Young 'British' Muslims were interviewed and apparently, all the suicide bombings in Iraq are being carried out by the coalition troops.............amazing...........

Originally posted by cloudybay
Allah rewards them with 70 virgins in heaven, or so they believe. 'Analysis' on Radio 4, last night, gave a very interesting insight into the mindset of these people. Young 'British' Muslims were interviewed and apparently, all the suicide bombings in Iraq are being carried out by the coalition troops.............amazing...........

You forgot to mention they also get to pick something like 24 of their close friends and family to go to heaven too!

Originally posted by serapis
You forgot to mention they also get to pick something like 24 of their close friends and family to go to heaven too!

I didn't realise that, now, I really must go and study my Koran........

Errr...have Al-Qaeda fallen out with Aljazeera news channel or something?

As recordings are usually provided to Aljazeera first, I'm not sure what's going on here...

Originally posted by Abdul
Errr...have Al-Qaeda fallen out with Aljazeera news channel or something?

As recordings are usually provided to Aljazeera first, I'm not sure what's going on here...

??????? It was shown on al-Jazeera (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4206708.stm)

Originally posted by cgksheff
??????? It was shown on al-Jazeera (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4206708.stm)

The video in the link you supplied was the original one. The BBC News article is dated 2 September 2005.

The topic of this thread appears to be a newly released video, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere other than on the website of this Neil Doyle (who's he??)

Doyle is a journalist.

The video is the same one.

Nothing new here!

Originally posted by cgksheff
The video is the same one.

Nothing new here!

Thanks for the info. So what's the point of the thread :confused:

Originally posted by cgksheff
Doyle is a journalist.

Is that all? I was expecting him to be a 'Middle-East expert' or 'Terrorism expert'.

Crikey! I'm both. Who wants to interview me, and how much are you paying?

It is the same one, but a different part of the same one, which hasn't been aired before.
Al Queda has only just released it, I guess to try and gain support after their Jordan Muslim p.r. disaster.

Hopefully it will serve to dispell the myths that the London bombers committed mass murder for 'socio-political' reasons.

Here we have it from the horses mouth, the only motivating factor (which I've said all along) was they'd been brainwashed into believing they were all going to get their promised 72 virgins.

Originally posted by kay_cee
Hopefully it will serve to dispell the myths that the London bombers committed mass murder for 'socio-political' reasons.

Here we have it from the horses mouth, the only motivating factor (which I've said all along)...

I don't agree with that. Do you think they'd have gone into a neutral country and blown themselves up? If so, why didn't they choose a country closer to Pakistan (where some of the bombers apparently visited)?

You appear to basing your convictions on a selected 16 second video clip, that has been taken from a much longer recording.

Originally posted by kay_cee
...was they'd been brainwashed into believing they were all going to get their promised 72 virgins.

I partly agree with this. You exaggerate in that the video makes no mention of 72 virgins; the speaker in fact says they are guaranteeing themselves a place in paradise - obviously the bombers had been deluded into thinking that.

However, I do feel the invasion of Iraq was a key factor in the decision of the bombers.

Originally posted by cloudybay
Allah rewards them with 70 virgins in heaven, or so they believe. 'Analysis' on Radio 4, last night, gave a very interesting insight into the mindset of these people. Young 'British' Muslims were interviewed and apparently, all the suicide bombings in Iraq are being carried out by the coalition troops.............amazing...........

What the hell???? :loopy:

Originally posted by Abdul
[B]

I partly agree with this. You exaggerate in that the video makes no mention of 72 virgins; the speaker in fact says they are guaranteeing themselves a place in paradise - obviously the bombers had been deluded into thinking that.

/B]

Has nobody told them? Paradise has run out of virgins........

According to Berlinda Carlisle, heaven is a place on earth ... obviously never been to Rotherham then :hihi:

Originally posted by Abdul
I don't agree with that. Do you think they'd have gone into a neutral country and blown themselves up? If so, why didn't they choose a country closer to Pakistan (where some of the bombers apparently visited)?
I guess I didn't explain myself too well Abdul, (I was ranting a bit!);
The 'social' argument doesn't wash one iota. For a start one of the bombers (I think this one) was a PhD graduate.
The main motivating factor was their religious ideals, the political reasoning only served to give them the excuse they needed to carry out these ideals.

I partly agree with this. You exaggerate in that the video makes no mention of 72 virgins; the speaker in fact says they are guaranteeing themselves a place in paradise - obviously the bombers had been deluded into thinking that.
I wasn't exaggerating here, I just acted in presumption if anything, presumingpeople knew what the bombers knew of the Islamic teaching of paradise, which includes the promise of 72 virgins. (Hadith Al-Tirmidhi volume IV, chapter 21,)

Howcome this thread predates the actual release of the new footage from the video tonight, Tuesday 15th Nov?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4440772.stm

Spooky

I hope they catch this guy, what religion can say killing people is right? How can these people claim to be Muslim, nothing in any religion says blowing people up is right, it's going to end up sterotyping all muslims and it's so wrong.
If a christian did it, i'd hate to think people saw me as a threat.

They don't deserve to be killed, they should be locked up and tortured for as long as they are alive.

I think they already caught what was left of him.....

Originally posted by notrecoach87

If a christian did it, i'd hate to think people saw me as a threat.


There is quite a big difference between Christianity and Islam in practice, though. I think it's fair to say that Britain is not really a religious country as such.

Those of us who call ourselves Christians really only attend church for weddings, funerals and christenings. In other words, religion plays very little part in our lives and the majority of us seldom think about our so-called faith. The few Christians who are over zealous about their religion are rightly viewed with suspicion.

Islam however......

Originally posted by notrecoach87
I hope they catch this guy, what religion can say killing people is right? How .

Its called the koran and it does indeed call for jihad against the non believer's.

Originally posted by notrecoach87
I hope they catch this guy, what religion can say killing people is right? How can these people claim to be Muslim, nothing in any religion says blowing people up is right, .....

In response to that, Notrecoach, please see here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62105&perpage=15&pagenumber=11)
Scroll down to my post, (apologies for the link but it's a bit long for me to write out again!)

A new video?

Even with a new video, I bet he has 'second album trouble'.

Originally posted by PottShrigley
Howcome this thread predates the actual release of the new footage from the video tonight, Tuesday 15th Nov?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4440772.stm

Spooky

I though it was common knowledge that MI5 and CIA agents regularly post to this forum for propaganda and disinformation purposes?

Originally posted by kay_cee
I guess I didn't explain myself too well Abdul, (I was ranting a bit!)

No comment!

Originally posted by kay_cee
I wasn't exaggerating here, I just acted in presumption if anything, presumingpeople knew what the bombers knew of the Islamic teaching of paradise, which includes the promise of 72 virgins. (Hadith Al-Tirmidhi volume IV, chapter 21,)

No, I still don't agree that the promise of 72 virgins was what drove the bombers to blow themselves up. Chapter 22, verse 23 of the Koran says: "As for those who have faith and who do good work, God will admit them to gardens watered by running streams. They shall be decked with pearls and bracelets of gold, and arrayed in garments of silk."

If we use your argument, it could also be said they blew themselves up just because they wanted to wear silk and gold (that would make a good headline!).

Young bombers blow up so early these days ......

Originally posted by notrecoach87
I hope they catch this guy, what religion can say killing people is right? How can these people claim to be Muslim, nothing in any religion says blowing people up is right, it's going to end up sterotyping all muslims and it's so wrong.
If a christian did it, i'd hate to think people saw me as a threat.

I discussed this on the forum about 18 months ago here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=111275#post111275)

Originally posted by cloudybay
Young bombers blow up so early these days ......


Better to burn out than fade away.



I hope I die before i turn into Pete Towshend

Originally posted by Abdul
I discussed this on the forum about 18 months ago here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=111275#post111275)

I read your post Abdul, from 18 months ago, and like I said in my post from a while ago, these are the same verses that the Muslim apologists came out with after 9/11.
I realise Sura 60 is a 'Medina' verse, but others still came after it and so carry more weight. (For example, the infamous 'verse of the sword' Sura 9:5)

The verse you cited from Sura 5:32 was somewhat out of context, as it starts with....

"Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person..."

Verse 33 picks back up with commands for the Muslims;
"The recompense of those who wage war against Allâh and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land..."

The trouble is, 'Doing mischief in the land' leaves a whole lot of scope for the individuals own interpretation.
In fact,we can see from various Hadith it covered a wide spectrum for Muhammad aswell.

Bukharis Hadith gives an account of Muhammed ordering one guys murder. Why? Because he wrote poetry about Muhammed and also things which were 'insulting towards Muslim women';

“Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”
Bukharis Hadith:Volume 4; Book 52; Number 270.

If you want to discuss this further Abdul, I have no problem with that, just pm me and I'll give you my e-mail.
I don't think it's a good idea to carry on on this thread as we would be in jeapordy of the mods closing it down due to it turning in to yet another theological debate about Islam. (!)

Just for the record Abdul, I have no problem with you, I know your a moderate Muslim, who is probably more concerned with what to get his wife for her Birthday than trying to establish a Caliphate. So as I said, I'm happy to discuss further, offline if you'd like to.

Thankyou;
Kc.

It would be a shame if the thread went to pm. I was enjoying two intelligent people who know more about this than me (though from different perpectives) discussing this.....

I personally don't mind continuing online, I just realise it gets some peoples backs up, and maybe the mods aswell, i guess understandably, to a degree.