UK bank customers could pay up to £250m to withdraw their own money from cash machines in 2006, the Nationwide building society has predicted.

In 2004 the private companies who install and operate charging ATMs made £140m in withdrawal fees.

In total, nearly 22,000 of the UK's 54,000 ATMs levy a cash withdrawal fee and increasing numbers are being put in newsagents and convenience stores.

Operators argue customers can choose whether or not to use their machines.

The spread of fee-charging ATMs has been rapid. Last year alone the number of machines rose 16%.

At the same time, the number of free-to-use ATMs has remained static.


ATM charges are simply another example of the poor paying more - in this case they are paying a high price just to access their own money
Claire Whyley
National Consumer Council

Send us your comments

This is partly due to some banks selling off their non-branch-based ATM sites to fee-charging providers.

"If this pattern continues, there is a real possibility that free access to cash will not survive other than at bank and building society branches and a few other locations such as main post offices," said Stuart Bernau, Nationwide executive director.

Government all-clear

There has been a long-running controversy over the spread of fee-charging ATMs.

Opponents, including Which? and Citizens Advice, argue that charges hit people on low incomes hardest, as these people are more likely to make smaller, more frequent withdrawals and are therefore bearing a disproportionately large share of the charges.

Claire Whyley, of the National Consumer Council, said: " It is essential that people have easy and cost-free access to their money.

"ATM charges are simply another example of the poor paying more - in this case they are paying a high price just to access their own money."

But fee-charging ATM firms have argued that they are providing a service and that consumers have a choice to use their machines or not.

Last March, the parliamentary Treasury Select Committee issued a report calling for clearer warnings on fee-charging cash machines.

But in its response to the committee's report, the government gave charging ATMs the all-clear, pointing out that the vast majority of fee-charging ATMs were in locations where there had never been a free cash machine.

You have three choices:

1) Do nothing :(

2) trust the government to sort it :suspect:

3) lie down and take it :help:




And your time starts NOW......

Originally posted by pinlock
You have three choices:

1) Do nothing :(

2) trust the government to sort it :suspect:

3) lie down and take it :help:




And your time starts NOW......

Choice 4:

Don't use them.

For the vast majority of us living in a city, we have access to free ATM withdrawals - even if only from our own banks.

I live in Walkley and there is now one free ATM at the end of South Road and a Pay ATM in the supermarket; I bank with Lloyds TSB and so in town I have a couple of branches to choose from.

If I were less mobile than I am or living in the countryside then I would be up in arms if my only ATM was a charge one.

In terms of banking issues, this isn't one of my highest priority ones, but I can imagine how difficult it is for some.

Joe

Originally posted by JoeP
For the vast majority of us living in a city, we have access to free ATM withdrawals - even if only from our own banks.

I live in Walkley and there is now one free ATM at the end of South Road and a Pay ATM in the supermarket; I bank with Lloyds TSB and so in town I have a couple of branches to choose from.

If I were less mobile than I am or living in the countryside then I would be up in arms if my only ATM was a charge one.

In terms of banking issues, this isn't one of my highest priority ones, but I can imagine how difficult it is for some.

Joe

There are two ATMs near to you (or us when I'm up) - I noticed a Yorkshire Bank ATM (out of order) in somewhere a-rather near their house and a Nationwide ATM at Crookes.

:)

And there's a Trustee Savings Bank at Hillsborough.

I've just read that all the ATM's the banks have taken out of use are being sold to a company that is making them into Fee paying ATM's.

It seems to me the banks in the UK want it every way they canwith little thought of their customers.

I find that in New Zealand the card rules in most shops and businesses.

You can buy a newspaper, a coffee and all sorts of cheap items with a card.

Can you imagine what kind of a reception you would receive if you offered a card in a shop to buy a small priced item?

I was quite embarrassed in front of a queue in a Chinese takeaway one night when the proprietor demanded cash only.

The order was for about 14 pounds and so I didn't think I was out of order using a credit card.

I can understand the businesses not taking cards as they have to pay bank charges.

The banks are now pressurising us to use the ATM and pay them for their use.

Surely it would be better and more competitive for all businesses to build in their bank costs into their prices.

In New Zealand the Kiwi's seem to manage it without any trouble and keep their prices competitive so I know it works.

This would mean everyone carrying less cash and paying more securely for everything in the UK.

I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks.

Happy days!

At work we supply Moneybox, one of the main installers of cash fee payable machines. They put their machines in places where there is a demand. Like pubs and conveniece stores.

If the amount of withdrawals is high enough, they are able to take off the fee. To be honest if you can afford to drink in a pub, you have nothing to complain about. Paying to use an expensive machine because you are too lazy to get your cash before you go out or too lazy to go across the road.

Where I live there are 2 bank [free] ATM machines about 100 yards from my house. If they are broke there is another 3 about half a mile away. Near woodseats police station.
These machine are for convenience. Years ago people would have had to take their cash out of the bank on friday afternoon, enough to last all weekend.

As a society we have got used to frequent top ups of cash from these machines. If we had to pay or visit town to get free money we would just carry more cash about.

Originally posted by PopT
I find that in New Zealand the card rules in most shops and businesses.
You can buy a newspaper, a coffee and all sorts of cheap items with a card.
Can you imagine what kind of a reception you would receive if you offered a card in a shop to buy a small priced item?
Where I work we have a machine for our customers credit and debit cards and we use it every day to take payments. We had to spend 18 months persuading our bank to let us have one, it was extremely difficult.
This must be why there are still some shops which don't have a card machine. Although all resteraunts around here seem to have one, and shops which sell expensive items.

I wouldn't want to own a shop where you sell lots of small items by credit card though as the paperwork would be appalling for such low amounts of profit. and the fees that American express charge are very high.

Most grocery stores plus the liquor and beer stores here in Ontario accept debit cards and offer a cash back option over and above the items cost (usually has to be in multiples of 20 dollars) This doesn't cost any extra. We also have the so-called "white machines" which do charge a fee. Fortunately I've never had to use one.

Whenever I can, I pay by Switch/Maestro and if I need cash, I use the cashback option where it's available, 30-40 notes cashback is generally no problem... Much more convenient and secure than using ATM's...

Originally posted by robbie

But in its response to the committee's report, the government gave charging ATMs the all-clear, pointing out that the vast majority of fee-charging ATMs were in locations where there had never been a free cash machine.

Hahahaha! That amused me seeing as the 'pod unit' at the Centertainment which used to be a FREE Halifax machine has become a charged machine instead!

I wouldn't mind so much if businesses would all accept Solo. Due to a bad credit history, I am unable to get any other type of card at present....but find that too many places don't accept it. Then, to get money at these places I have to pay extra!

Because were victims of Capitalism, we are pawns in the battle to make the rich, richer.

If nobody used those machines, they wouldn't be there. Banks rip people off because people allow themselves to be ripped off.

In some cases the machines are not highly used and therefore need to charge. I would argue that in a lot of cases, the machines would generate enough revenue anyway without charging customers. (Every time you use another bank's cash machine, your own bank is charged. I think it's about 30p for a cash withdrawel and a couple more pence for a balance).

Don't use these machines, and I guarantee that they will stop charging. But while enough people are lazy enough to pay £1.75 instead of walking down the road, the machines will keep charging.

Originally posted by Andy
If nobody used those machines, they wouldn't be there. Banks rip people off because people allow themselves to be ripped off.

In some cases the machines are not highly used and therefore need to charge. I would argue that in a lot of cases, the machines would generate enough revenue anyway without charging customers. (Every time you use another bank's cash machine, your own bank is charged. I think it's about 30p for a cash withdrawel and a couple more pence for a balance).

Don't use these machines, and I guarantee that they will stop charging. But while enough people are lazy enough to pay £1.75 instead of walking down the road, the machines will keep charging.

who do you work for again? :D

anyhow, it is fair enough say in town to go to the next machine but most people outside city centres don't really get that option.

Also surely, by having machines it is saving bank and building societies money on having extra staff behind the counter?

Surely they should all get together and agree to drop the charges

Originally posted by robbie
who do you work for again? :D


I've never hidden the fact that I work in the Financial Services sector.


anyhow, it is fair enough say in town to go to the next machine but most people outside city centres don't really get that option.


Several banks will allow you to draw cash from the Post Office. Cashback is another option.

IF it's a machine where the only way to cover costs is to charge, then I have no problem with it. What I do disagree with, as I have said before, is those machines which are very busy (eg at Centertainment), and will make enough revenue from transaction charges anyway, without the need to charge the cardholder.

ATMs seem to be springing up mroe and more in pubs as well. It seems to benefit the bank and the pub but not the customer

Originally posted by robbie
ATMs seem to be springing up mroe and more in pubs as well. It seems to benefit the bank and the pub but not the customer

Well it does benefit the customer - they don't have to go out into the rain to find a bank to get cash.

Originally posted by Andy
Well it does benefit the customer - they don't have to go out into the rain to find a bank to get cash.

but these pubs had cahback before. It benefitted them as people get drunk cashback money and spend it in the pub.

My favourite bank rip-off is when they charge you for paying your loan back early.

How can they get away with that ?

Originally posted by nick2
My favourite bank rip-off is when they charge you for paying your loan back early.

How can they get away with that ?

I guess it's to cover the interest they'll lose? Heaven forbid that a Bank occasionally loses a penny or two....

But you're right - it's just another way for the banks to rip us off.

StarSparkle

I inadvertantly overpaid my credit card with TSB so my account was in credit.

Some weeks later I drew this out to get my credit card to zero.

When I received my Credit card statement they they had charged me 2 pounds 50 pence for drawing it out putting my credit into a debit of 2pounds 50 pence.

After ringing them up to point out that I was drawing my own money out they tried to justify their charge.

I threatened to close the account and so they relented and reinstated the @pounds 50 pence.

I still cannot work the banks out in the UK, everyone is being ripped off and they think they have a right.

PopT - that probably wasn't an attempt to rip you off - everyone is charged for getting cash on a credit card. Credit cards aren't really designed to go into credit, so there's no mechanism in place to let you withdraw cash for free if you're in credit.

I'm suprised it was awkward to get a refund though, I would have done that straight away.

What with the continued closures of high street branches, outsourcing call centres to India, paying a pittance for the labour and the continued pressure to use the internet to do your banking, being charged to take your money out is in my mind a feckin joke! They make £Billions in profit!

It should be outlawed as extortion the same way clamping is considered extortion in Scotland and was banned!

Its a fact that Banks have closed branches in poorer parts of many towns taking their ATM's with them leaving the only method of getting your money is to go to a chargeable ATM.

The UK gov wont do a thing about it though as they never seem to do a bloody thing of any importance these days!

Originally posted by serapis
What with the continued closures of high street branches, outsourcing call centres to India, paying a pittance for the labour and the continued pressure to use the internet to do your banking, being charged to take your money out is in my mind a feckin joke! They make £Billions in profit!

It should be outlawed as extortion the same way clamping is considered extortion in Scotland and was banned!

Its a fact that Banks have closed branches in poorer parts of many towns taking their ATM's with them leaving the only method of getting your money is to go to a chargeable ATM.

The UK gov wont do a thing about it though as they never seem to do a bloody thing of any importance these days!

It's called deregulation, a principle started by Thatcher and taken over by New Labour. The problem with this isis that deregulated companies, particularly globalised corporations and multi-nations do what they like and couldnt give a brass farthing for the likes of people like us. And because of their deep pockets they can afford to pay the lawyers to bail them out; you've got to prove your case, will almost certainly loose and dont count on the legislation in place to protect you. Getting your legal rights is, at best remote. But I suspect you know that already dont you?